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Author Topic: The Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Disscussion Thread (For All My Friends!)  (Read 33159 times)
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Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #480 on: 09-06-2006 12:11 »

Well it was her subconscious...which says wonderful shippy things.
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #481 on: 09-06-2006 12:38 »

Oh she does look like a widow. If Fry actually died she would probably have that hard of a time with it.

It is possible the she thinks of Fry as more than just a friend/coworker, however she refuses to act upon that or let it show. (This is an assumption mostly based upon TS.) Furthermore, the huge outpouring of grief could be because she regrets not ever telling Fry the truth about her feelings. 
On some level she wants to say yes. (The level that has control at the end of episodes.) But she usually represses these feelings. (Like at the beginning of episodes.)
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #482 on: 09-06-2006 19:19 »
« Last Edit on: 09-06-2006 19:19 »

Eh, OK...I'm a bit nervous at seeing my own art posted here, but Xanfor personally asked me to,( see: "KitKatBar-Fry Decides To Hand-Draw Some Stuff Too." so here goes:


Obviously, I was inspired to hand draw it from FemJesse's pic on the other thread. Hope y'all like the shippy.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #483 on: 09-06-2006 19:34 »

KittyKat means this pic. My mistake, I didn't tell her what thread I was linking too. Nevertheless, I needed to cross-reference that thread to here anyway, so thanks for giving me a justification.  wink

I now hereby dictate that everyone is to give beneficial and over joyously shippy comments.

Dum diddy dum!...


KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #484 on: 09-06-2006 19:57 »

Thanks, Xanfor. I would have linked myself, but I don't know how. Thanks for saving me the trouble. And lotsa love for asking me to post it here anyways.
Well? What do you think?
*looks around nervously*
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #485 on: 09-06-2006 20:33 »
« Last Edit on: 09-06-2006 20:33 »

Hmm... We should make up a story. She's crying about Fry, yes, but because he was using her toothbrush to comb his hair...and that he's dead of course. Bender's secretly thinking "Oh if only I coulda stolen Fry's jacket to sell it on eBuy" and he's also thinking of taking some stuff from everyone else attending. You know it.   wink

@KK: I like it, despite how I hate notebook paper,but that's your prefs. I'll deal. (I still use it all the time at school.  laff.)Next time, I'd like to see you shade it. I think it'd make it interesting to see what it'd turn out like.  wink
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #486 on: 09-06-2006 20:42 »

Hehe, thanks, Zoidy. It's 'egg paper' I found stashed in my basement. I did attempt to shade it, as you can see with Nibbler's head and eyestalk and Fry's hair. But I eventually gave up on it as I have no clue where to put the shadings  roll eyes Sorry.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #487 on: 09-06-2006 23:28 »

I think it's adorable.  smile
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #488 on: 09-06-2006 23:40 »

@KKB-F Nice work, very nice work. I especially like how Nibbler's head turned out. Only thing to work on is Leels's hair color, and I wouldn't worry about that because it doesn't detract from the rest of it. My favorite new stuff sence PZ. (Oh noes, competition!  eek )
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #489 on: 09-07-2006 07:21 »

thank you for the encuraging comments. smile
@HS: Yah, you won't believe how many times I erased and tried to redraw his head till I got it just right. And as for her haircolor-well, I used only one box of penxil crayons for the whole thing, so maybe the purple wasn't spot-on.  tongue
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #490 on: 09-07-2006 20:37 »
« Last Edit on: 09-07-2006 20:37 »

KitKatBar-Fry: Best thing since sliced bread! (this needs to be your siggy KKB-F) I wouldn't worry about the hair. I'm sure my purples aren't right either. But pretty close...   laff
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #491 on: 09-07-2006 21:32 »

Thanky, PZ. I just added anotjer shippy pic to my fanart thread, so be sure to check it out.
Thanks very much. big grin
dawoodz
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #492 on: 09-09-2006 12:58 »

Wanna see Fry proposing to Leela?
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #493 on: 09-10-2006 15:09 »

Ahh... Oh, I do.

Very nice, however, I do have one question. Why is Leela lower than Fry? Oh, wait, of course, it's  futuristic tradition... Must have something to do with the sitcom roles of the twenty-two hundreds... Hmm, I have to catch up on that... Anywhat, time for me to continue.

Starting off, for one thing, is me. I have no choice but to point out how this thread is appearing to die. Heaven forbid, just the other day it was down to number four in the forum summary page, oh horrors!

Well, that's why I'm here, now isn't it?

First things first, obviously. Second things second, and then, just for kicks, fourth things third.

Seeing as how this thread needs a jumpstart, please discuss this.



Fry is choking severly. And yet Leela doesn't really care. Plus, Fry had just apologized for what he had said earlier. Discuss this contraversially.

Next, in order to repair any broken hearts, minds, or bones from that just antecedent, possibly melancholic delineation, I have this quote, which Shiny actually pointed out to me the other day...

 
Quote
If you ever need a savior again, just ask.

Oh, we will.
We will!

We will, we will! And we'll need The Other, also, and herd of little ones and-.

Now, think about this... Nibbler says that the sages forsee that one day, the fate of the universe would rest in Fry's hands. That's all. No more details, apparently. And obviously, since they (the Nibblonians) were willing to sacrifice Fry's life, they must have thought that moment was when he would need to destroy the InfoSphere. But, think this: Why does Nibbler need to remain undercover, unless he was briefed by the sages afterwards that the moment which they had forseen hadn't yet arrived? Which was why Nibbler sounded so certain when he said 'We will!'. Perhaps, during that briefing with the sages, Nibbler was told a little more detail about this 'The Other'. So... Maybe a flower was in order?

Ok, exercise time! Think over the events in the episodes following TWOF. (Winces as Shiny pulls out her weapon.) Now, try and find any unexplainable events that may have been caused by Nibbler in attempts to 'push' them together. Interesting if and true.

Now, in unrelated news, it's time to get started on the September Shiny campaign. I started the threads last month. Theycontained a comedic list, an alphabetical list, a long  campaign speech and a professor Frink quote. Who wants to do that this month? Also needed: People to write long speeches for her in other threads, people to donate us their signature spaces for the month and people willing to actually vote for her. She came in first in noms but second in votes last month. What the deal with that then?

And now, to wrap this off, I have something very special...

 
Quote
Originally posted by KurtPikachu2001:
...It was cool how old Leela was telling what happens to her and Fry in the future and then says, oh, nothing!  Excellent!...

So, uh, Venus, do you know something you're not telling us?

O,&@ShInE: Sorry about missing my place in the framegrab thread. I assumed that everyone would've remembered what I had said. But only you did. (Wipes a tear from eye)

(Rereads happy poem)


Arkan

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #494 on: 09-10-2006 17:33 »

Wow, I missed a lot of shippy (and not-quite-so-shippy) discussion while I was gone. And I missed voting for Shiny! Oh no! Ah well...it's not like one vote ever made a difference...right?

Anyway, never fear, I offer my unwavering support for the next one - along with my signature space and actual vote, of course. Go Shiny!

And, Xanfor, we shall not let this mighty thread fall! There's still just too much shippy to be discussed and discussion to be shippified (both in a long-winded way, of course).

And about the 'we will, we will (rock you)' thing - I've thought about that, too, and it gives me great hope for the future...of the future. It's definitely not the last we'll see of that particular plotline.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #495 on: 09-11-2006 00:36 »

Xanfor i don't know anything i'm not telling. Kurt got two seperate jokes in the comic combined. 

Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #496 on: 09-11-2006 04:40 »
« Last Edit on: 09-11-2006 04:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
Now, in unrelated news, it's time to get started on the September Shiny campaign. I started the threads last month. Theycontained a comedic list, an alphabetical list, a long campaign speech and a professor Frink quote. Who wants to do that this month? Also needed: People to write long speeches for her in other threads, people to donate us their signature spaces for the month and people willing to actually vote for her.

   eek

Good grief, I had no idea this POTM thing was so much work.  Wow.

Er, I'd offer to do some of it, but I don't know if campaigning for yourself is considered, er, unforgiveably conceited and gauche or not.

If it's not, tell me what I can do.

If it is, I'll just stand over here in the corner and let you guys get on with it...

...and feel somewhat overwhelmed by, but very grateful for, all the effort everyone's going to. Also I'll say "thank you," to Xanfor and all co-conspirators, named and unnamed, for all the time and trouble, both last month and now.

Thanks.   smile
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #497 on: 09-11-2006 04:43 »

Shiny, you deserve it. Everywhere I go I see ypu posting big long explanations about stuff. I don't really 'get' some of it, as there are a lot of big words  roll eyes but I get the overall drift, and let me say: You rock.
Look me up when I vote you for POTM for September.

Anyways, less praise more shippy!
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #498 on: 09-11-2006 07:20 »

I've already stated that from now on, I will be nominating only people from the 'On-Topic' area.  Enough 'Off-Topic' people have won - now it's time for the backbone of the series, the people keeping it alive get some attention.

Venus has already won (quite deservably so), so I have my top pics - Demeter, because of her constant donation of art and also being a mod for FM/TLZ (she helps keep the forum alive and I have to say that it's improved since she has taken over as a mod), Shiny, Xanfor and many others.

I may fudge just a little because Marcus is like me - he resides on both 'on-topic' with his hard work with art and his hard work at other endeavors - he's a busy man, and 'off-topic' in the politics forum.  He always has a valid argument and never resorts to flaming (which I'll do in very short order).  He is also the only other person (besides me) who offered to sponcer FM/TLZ when they had their financial crisis last year.

So, each month look forward to the major posters of 'on-topic' to be nominated by me.

(Shiny, I'm pulling for you!)
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #499 on: 09-11-2006 07:55 »

Eek. Sorry, Venus. Kurty getting confused like that... And I had just gotten all excited. And that biological clock thing... Hmph.

Well, apparently, the comics aren't canon, so good.

And you know what else is not canon? Venus's fanfic, but you'd never be able to tell that by reading it. So check out the latest update! (I'd've linked to it earlier, but I only just found it. And found it I did! Whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop!)

Next, we have, not as promised, but forced by the potential lawsuit for breach of contract...



Well well well, that's a pretty big smile compared to what I expected...

 
Quote
Well, you could bother me a little...

Please note: That's not me talking, so please, don't bother me. Hmph, hmph, hmph.

Well, I'm gone now. Remember me!

 
Quote
Originally posted by Beamer:
I DO think that Leela was the "other one" Nibbler was referring to - but I don't think it was a hint they were meant for eachother or anything. I think Nibbler deliberately froze Fry at that time for a reason. After all - if he had been frozen any earlier - he wouldn't have met Bender (who played a vital roll in Fry's getaway from Leela) and if he had froze him any later that day - he wouldn't have met Leela (keep in mind that I think Fry was her last unfreezing for that day, as she said she wanted to make it quick so she could get to new years celebrations). Now - the freezing moment would have had to occur within 30 seconds of that time so Fry could have met both Leela and Bender, right?

Now - let's keep in mind that if Fry hadn't managed to escape that far (thanks to Bender bending the bars), he probably wouldn't have convinced Leela to join Planet Express. Now, what does this have to do with Nibbler's comment? Well, look - almost every time Fry has almost died, it's been Leela who saved him. If it wasn't for Leela - Fry wouldn't have survived. I think Nibbler refers to Leela as "the other" because she is pretty much Fry's protector, and the rest of the stuff I brought up pretty much explains why Nibbler would have had to have frozen Fry at that moment.

So, basically - I don't think Nibbler's comment had anything to do with Fry and Leela's love life or anything - I think it was simply because Leela is the sole reason Fry hasn't died yet. Although this is just some theory I've come up with - it does make sense. Perhaps they were planning to explain it later on, but until I see proof of that - I'm sticking with my "Fry's protector" theory.

Maybe it will be explained in The Devils Hands Are Idle Playthings, considering that seems to be the only unaired Fry & Leela heavy episode left. Damn... this post went on quicker than I expected. Oh well, at least I've shared my little "other one" explanation here.

 
Quote
Originally posted by boingo2000:
Beamer, that's a good theory.  A damn good theory.  Although we see in Why of Fry that Nibbler has no knowledge, so it does assume that the Nibblonian's prophecy was unusually specfic for that kind of thing. But hell, who am I to say it wasn't?  Unfortunatly, "Devil's Hands" aside, I don't think they had time enough to really go into it before FOX pulled the plug.  It does seem like a Futurama-style thing to do though, doesn't it?  To have Nibbler say later on: "You thought that... You and... Oh, no, she's just your guardian.  Sorry to lead you on."

 
Quote
Originally posted by David A:
This "other" business reminds me of a line from The Books of Magic.

For those of you not familiar with it, The Books of Magic was a comic book series by John Ney Reiber (based on an earlier miniseries by Neil Gaiman, of Sandman fame).  It was the story of Tim Hunter, an ordinary boy who learns that he has the potential to become the greatest magician of his time (something referred to as "an opener" or "the opener" by various characters throughout the series).

Anyway, at one point in the series, there were these gargoyles spying on Tim and his girlfriend, Molly.  After observing Tim and Molly for a while, one of the gargoyles said, "He's an opener, isn't he?  And that girl, she's his other."

Unfortunately, we never got to find out what that meant.  Not long afterwards, John Ney Reiber left the book.  The new writer took it in a different sort of direction and apparently decided that Molly wasn't "the other" after all.  "The other" turned out to be this evil version of Tim from an alternate universe who was travelling from universe to universe, killing all of the other Tim Hunters, so that he could be the one, true Tim Hunter.

Nibbler's line about Leela being "the other" always made me think of that gargoyle saying that Molly was Tim's "other".  I suppose that we'll never find out what Nibbler meant, though; just like we never found out what that gargoyle meant.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Abe:
I believe the "other" reference was referring to a relationship between Leela and Fry. 

1)  First off I don't buy the guardian theory because Leela does save Fry often.  Fry as almost died a few times but have been save by others such as car crash in PYHOMS by Zoidyberg.  The suicide both in the Pilot with Bender.  The waterfall in MU he was saved by Gunther. 

2)  The reason for my thinking is when Fry tells Nibbler Leela does think much of him, Nibbler says don't give up and he will do what we can.  So what does Nibbler do in a thousand years lets himself become Leela's cute little pet.  This is not just to watch Fry, because if this was the plan he would have become Fry's pet somehow.  I think he became Leela pet to help breakdown some of those emotional barriers she has by being cute.  Leela is a lot more open with her feels around/with Nibbler.  Even though Nibbloians don't like being considered cute. 

3)  Now this is just a possible theory.  Maybe just maybe this why in ISTE Bender was able to flush Nibbler and why he did not just come back on his own.  I think Nibbler could out think Bender and return on his own.  The reason being Nibbler wanted Leela to go to sewers.  He probably new she was a mutant and not an alien and thought bring her there she might run into her long lost parents.

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
If you check the Alien Language Signs section at The Leela Zone/Futurama Madhouse you'll under the "My Three Sons" set there is a poster behind Leela as she is walking down the street with Fry. It says "The Eye Will Come". In Fry's Opera in Devil's Hands" his lyrics refer to Leela as "like a baby Moses" that might deliver her people. We don't know if that would be mutants, humans, or the Universe yet. Perhaps Fry is starting to have unconscious flashes of the future due his exposure to time travel.

It was Leela who checked Fry's genetics when he woke up. If there was anything there about being related she probably have said something. But then again, at the time she thought she was an alien. Her genetic database at her old job didn't know everything.

We tend to see the 31st century through Fry's eyes which means we're missing about a 1000 years of history.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
The Nibblonians are nicer than the Vorlons.  I agree they didn't know about Fry's past nastification until it "happened" (until Fry knew it happened), then they put two and two together. 

The Nibblonians took Fry's life away, but they tried to make his future life decent.  They protected his building from the destruction of the alien saucers, they kept his bank account open and gathering interest, they even made sure his favorite brand of beer survived.  They weren't out to enslave him, just make sure he was available at the crucial time.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
I'm assuming Nibblonian prophecies are a lot like Buffy/Angel prophecies. Vague. Maybe they knew enough that he was meant to meet 'the other' at a certain timeframe but didn't know who 'the other' actually was so they couldn't just capture and hold her until the time came to use them. In order to understand why the Nibblonians did anything we would have to actually hear what the prophecy said, which may or may not happen depending on how valid the movie rumor is.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Gopher:
Well, they already work together though, don't they? Fry couldn't have saved the world from the brain slugs without Leela's help, and Fry would probably have died 50 times over in his first year in the future without Leela to bail him out. By seasons 3 and 4 Bender probably would have saved fry if he could, but in season 1 he would most likely pointed and laughed as Fry got mugged/killed/eaten/etc.

None the less, if all Leela was supposed to do was protect fry, the Nibblonians wouldn't make such a big deal of her as "the Other" since if it came to it Nibbler could always have protected herhim.

Thinking back to "The Why of Fry" it seems that whoever the Other is (I believe it's Leela), they're clearly connected to fry, probably romantically.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Digital Dragon:
I see three likely options:

1. Leela is significant because Fry's love for her will give him the strength to save the universe (again) at some point.

2. Leela is significant because she will be the mother of Fry's child and Fry's bloodline must be continued to have someone around immune to the brains after he dies.

3. Leela isn't significant at all and Nibbler is a manipulative bastard.

Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #500 on: 09-11-2006 08:14 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
Seeing as how this thread needs a jumpstart, please discuss this.



Fry is choking severly. And yet Leela doesn't really care. Plus, Fry had just apologized for what he had said earlier. Discuss this contraversially.

She's still sore at him. Yeah, she accepts his apology, but she thinks a little pain will serve him his consequence.
Remember she is against the whole death thing and helps with the rescue.

Consequence pain inflicted by Leela: My Three Suns

Roswell That Ends Well:


So I think that she was happy cause she didn't have to do it. I think she would have helped Fry in normal circumstances, but seeing as she was starting to like the women only planet, it swayed her loyalty. That is until they were issued the death penalty and they were shocked back into reality.

... That's my two cents  tongue
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #501 on: 09-11-2006 09:18 »

 
Quote
3. Leela isn't significant at all and Nibbler is a manipulative bastard.

Bingo!

Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #502 on: 09-11-2006 19:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
 Bingo!

...is a game they play on the Near-Death Star a lot. 

The Nibblonians are a bit manipulative, but not bastards.  They're not above shoving Fry out in front of his Destiny, but bear in mind, it is the ENTIRE UNIVERSE they're trying to save, vs. sending one guy who hated his loser life and longed to fly through space to the future where he could. 

Nibbler gave Fry the choice under the desk, when he could have just blanked Fry's memory so he didn't know what was going on, then knocked him out with his adorable little kosh again.
The Nibblonians are decent beings in a difficult position.  Nibbler clearly cares for Leela and wants to help Fry with her (if "the Other" thing has nothing to do with Leela's role in Fry's love life, then the daisy gesture was even sweeter of Nibbler to arrange).

Just stop with all the unmitigated cynicism, already...this isn't the South Park forum, for Godnebula's sake.   tongue
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #503 on: 09-11-2006 19:36 »

 
Quote
Just stop with all the unmitigated cynicism, already

I've gotta be me, I've gotta be me...

You want cynical?  I'm the one who's defending Venus in "Off-Topic".  I'm a flaming ray of sunshine next to some people on this board.

Nibbler has it made - he doesn't have to work, he gets ham given to him by the truckload and all he has to do is crap out a little dark matter (I guess that Leela sells it to PE to finance the 'ham habit'.  She damned sure couldn't afford to feed Nibbler with the slave wages that Farnsworth supposenly pays.)

When the brains show up, Fry's the one who fights them.  Granted, in TDTESS, Nibbler did risk himself going back to rescue Leela from the brains - but was that for genuine affection for her or because she's the known protector of 'The Mighty One'?

If Nibbler has such great powers, if he cares for Leela, then why doesn't he use his immensely superior mental powers to offset her crippling loneliness and low self esteem?

To Nibbler, Leela is a workhorse - she feeds him and may be considered little more than a pet to him.

Now that's cynical!
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #504 on: 09-11-2006 21:10 »
« Last Edit on: 09-11-2006 21:10 »

Aww, I always thought that Nibbler was showing real affection for Leela just then. Although, now that I think about it, he may indeed have simply been saving her because she was 'The Other'.
As for Nibbler expecting Fry to stay in the Infosphere, then acknowledging that he was needed sometime else, well...
Perhaps the Nibblonians were simply being irrational. It's not like they were going to keep Fry from blowing up the Infosphere and saving the universe at that moment just because maybe a couple of sages foresaw something. They were going to act for the benfit of the present time. Fry surviving was an added bonus.


------------------
All praise the shippy Gods!
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #505 on: 09-12-2006 01:05 »
« Last Edit on: 09-12-2006 01:05 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
 I've gotta be me, I've gotta be me...

Sure, I know, just...mitigate it a little maybe...?

   
Quote
You want cynical?  I'm the one who's defending Venus in "Off-Topic".  I'm a flaming ray of sunshine next to some people on this board.

What?!  Someone's dissing Venus?  Good gravy, why?! Lemme at 'em!    mad

   
Quote
Nibbler has it made - he doesn't have to work, he gets ham given to him by the truckload and all he has to do is crap out a little dark matter.

And remain ETERNALLY VIGILANT for the danger of the Brain Spawn!

   
Quote
Granted, in TDTESS, Nibbler did risk himself going back to rescue Leela from the brains - but was that for genuine affection for her or because she's the known protector of 'The Mighty One'?

Did you see the look on his face?  As JD said "He feels so bad right there...Aww, man!  I just want to hug him!"

How can you doubt that Nibbler loves her?  Yes, yes, cynical, unmitigated....spare me your life story...

   
Quote
If Nibbler has such great powers, if he cares for Leela, then why doesn't he use his immensely superior mental powers to offset her crippling loneliness and low self esteem?

You mean, use mind control on her, and violate her FREE WILL?    eek Blanking memory is one thing, but actually rewriting the content of others' minds...if the Nibblonians did THAT, I'd agree with you that they're amoral manipulative bastards.

But so far, I merely have to say...    tongue

   wink
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #506 on: 09-12-2006 03:23 »

Nibbler also seemed pretty damned happy to see her in IStE. Granted he had just barely excaped being eaten but he did leap into her arms and lick her. Even if he sees her as being like a pet it is possible to love your pets a whole lot. I speak from experience. My cats aren't just my pets they're my kids. I've actually refered to Anica in real life conversation as 'my three year old'
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #507 on: 09-12-2006 07:36 »

Awww...Venus loves her kitties. Much the same way I loved my guinea pig, but he passed on a few days ago...

Anyways, it could also have been a combination of both, people. Loving and cynical. He may just have HAD to have rescued her, Leela being 'The Other' and all, but that doesn't mean he couldn't show love while doing it. It was a Super-Sized Combo of love for his 'master'/pet, and the need to keep the helper of The Mighty One safe.

He's so cute, I wanna dunk him in my...wait, I don't drink coffee..um, I wanna dunk him in my Hot Chocolate?
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #508 on: 09-12-2006 14:00 »

    Quote
    Originally posted by Shiny:
    The Nibblonians are a bit manipulative, but not bastards.  They're not above shoving Fry out in front of his Destiny, but bear in mind, it is the ENTIRE UNIVERSE they're trying to save, vs. sending one guy who hated his loser life and longed to fly through space to the future where he could.
    Uh huh.
    That whole, "... needs of the many vs. needs of the few," thing, ay?
    This might make Nibblers actions necessary, but it doesn’t make them right.
    That is, the Eternians gave Fry no say in the matter.

    The Eternians being bastards depends on their intent. Beyond defeating the Brain-Spawn, their intent has not been revealed.
    Quote
    Originally posted by Shiny:
    Nibbler gave Fry the choice under the desk, when he could have just blanked Fry's memory so he didn't know what was going on, then knocked him out with his adorable little kosh again.
    Hold on there: Fry wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place, except for Nibbler’s stuffing him into a cryo-tube!
    Quote
    Originally posted by Shiny:
    The Nibblonians are decent beings in a difficult position.
    That’s a knife that cuts both ways: We know what the Eternians have done, and we have a reason why. Whether Nibbler or the Eternians have feelings of affection for Fry, or Leela beyond their goal of defeating the Brain-Spawn is, frankly, irrelevant to said goal. Now, having said this, Nibbler does seem to behave as if he has said affection towards Leela, as you point out.
    Quote
    Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
    Nibbler has it made - he doesn't have to work, he gets ham given to him by the truckload and all he has to do is crap out a little dark matter ...
    Excuse me?  confused
    Nibbler’s needs for food, shelter, and ‘clothing’, may be filled by Leela in his current assignment, but I’d hardly call being a covert intelligence operative, required to assiduously maintain the degrading cover of being an animal, having it "made."
    Quote
    Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
    When the brains show up, Fry's the one who fights them.
    He’s the only one who can.
    Quote
    Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
    Granted, in TDTESS, Nibbler did risk himself going back to rescue Leela from the brains - but was that for genuine affection for her or because she's the known protector of 'The Mighty One'?
    That, my friend, is the $6.4e4 question.
    Mayhap, the movies will shed some light?  wink
    Quote
    Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
    If Nibbler has such great powers, if he cares for Leela, then why doesn't he use his immensely superior mental powers to offset her crippling loneliness and low self esteem?
    • We don’t yet know if he cares.
    • We don't know if he's capable of this.
    • It could endanger his mission.
    • It could endanger his cover.
    • It could be a part of the prophecy.
      Quote
      Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
      To Nibbler, Leela is a workhorse - she feeds him and may be considered little more than a pet to him.
      Uh... refresh my memory, Ralph; where’d he say this?  confused
    • Also, "pet," tends to indicate some degree of affection.  wink
    Quote
    Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
    As for Nibbler expecting Fry to stay in the Infosphere, then acknowledging that he was needed sometime else, well...
    Perhaps the Nibblonians were simply being irrational. It's not like they were going to keep Fry from blowing up the Infosphere and saving the universe at that moment just because maybe a couple of sages foresaw something. They were going to act for the benfit of the present time. Fry surviving was an added bonus.
    It seems, to me at least, it was more a matter of the Eternians not taking into account Fry’s own free will.
    Fry lingered in the Infosphere of his own accord.
    "Ken," (I think) the Eternian leader rebuked Fry by saying, "That's why you're supposed to be setting off a bomb!"
    "The Mighty One" is far too valuable an asset to risk without great need. The Eternians had intended for Fry to dash into the Infosphere, set the bomb, and come right back out!

    He didn’t. ’Nuff said.  wink
    My, I do ramble on...
    Venus

    Urban Legend
    ***
    « Reply #509 on: 09-12-2006 14:16 »

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
     If Nibbler has such great powers, if he cares for Leela, then why doesn't he use his immensely superior mental powers to offset her crippling loneliness and low self esteem?

    How exactly would he go about doing that though?
    Shiny

    Professor
    *
    « Reply #510 on: 09-12-2006 20:46 »

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry
    I loved my guinea pig, but he passed on a few days ago...

    Yikes!  Sorry about that, KKBF...was it natural causes?  They’re so cute, it’s a shame their little life spans are so short....


     
    Quote
    Originally posted by SpaceCase The Eternians being bastards depends on their intent. Beyond defeating the Brain-Spawn, their intent has not been revealed.

    But “saving the universe” (when one’s race existed before it, and could conceivably survive its demise) is generally considered to be A Good Thing.  So they’re lookin’ okay so far, IMHO....

     
    Quote
    SpaceCase:
        quote:Originally posted by Shiny:
        Nibbler gave Fry the choice under the desk, when he could have just blanked Fry's memory so he didn't know what was going on, then knocked him out with his adorable little kosh again.

    Hold on there: Fry wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place, except for Nibbler’s stuffing him into a cryo-tube! 

    Yes...but the stuffing was done to a Fry who knew nothing of the Nibblonians and (as far as they knew) would never believe them, and therefore wasn’t capable of making an informed choice about the matter.

    Think about it.  Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with Earth culture of that time (er, our time) would know that most of us, if we were in Fry’s position, are never going to BELIEVE a three-eyed, one-nostriled, furry little alien’s story about giant flying brains destroying the universe in a thousand years and how we’re the only one who can stop them because of a weird birth defect we know nothing about. Most of us would run screaming away from a Nibblonian, and either try to kill it, or check ourselves into a sanitarium.  (Granted, Fry might be the one person who would believe such a story - being both a science fiction fan AND not the brightest twinkly light on the Xmas tree - but to anyone who observed our culture, that possibility would seem pretty damn remote, you must admit... ) To the Nibblonians at that point, the only sane thing would seem to be the practical, though ethically grey, course of action.

    But Nibbler, faced with a Fry who understood the situation and could decide what he wanted in some kind of reasonable fashion, allowed him to make that choice.  So yeah, they get demerits for messing with Fry in the first place...but the fact that Nibbler, when faced with the chance to rectify the situation, was willing to risk the fate of the entire universe on Fry’s choice, gives me faith in Nibbler’s integrity (and in the ethical motives of Nibblonian culture in general).

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by Venus
        quote:Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
        If Nibbler has such great powers, if he cares for Leela, then why doesn't he use his immensely superior mental powers to offset her crippling loneliness and low self esteem?

    How exactly would he go about doing that though?

    By hiding his superior mental powers and consenting to pretend to be a sweet, cuddly, adorable companion who always loves her and keeps her company in the bare little apartment where she would otherwise be utterly alone...   big grin
    HopelessShipper

    Bending Unit
    ***
    « Reply #511 on: 09-12-2006 20:56 »

    The Nibblonians seem much more neutral than most say they are. They do some bad. (Freezing Fry without consent.) They do some good. (Assisting Fry to save the universe, companionship for Leela.)

    As far as morals and good vs. bad they remind me of the Vulcans. Their intentions are good, however their logic sometimes leads them to do (or not do things) that are questionable.
    KitKatBar-Fry

    Liquid Emperor
    **
    « Reply #512 on: 09-12-2006 21:13 »

    @Shiny: Yah, the poor little guinea pig died of old age. He was the ripe old age of 4 (!) cry
    I still have my pet chinchilla, which is good. But I'll never forget the little guy....
    anyways, back on-topic.
    I agree with HS. Although I haven't watched and paid attention to a single Star Trk episode, and so have no idea what the Vulcan thing is about, I do think the Nibblonians can do good and bad things. They are really nice aliens...but they do not always think about other species' emotions when they make their decisions.
    SpaceCase

    Liquid Emperor
    **
    « Reply #513 on: 09-13-2006 11:50 »

      Quote
      Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
      But “saving the universe” (when one’s race existed before it, and could conceivably survive its demise) is generally considered to be A Good Thing. So they’re lookin’ okay so far, IMHO...
      In other words, “... the end justifies the means?”
      Quote
      Yes... but the stuffing was done to a Fry who knew nothing of the Nibblonians and (as far as they knew) would never believe them, and therefore wasn’t capable of making an informed choice about the matter.
      So-o-o, we agree?  wink
      Quote
      But Nibbler, faced with a Fry who understood the situation...
      That is, Fry who had experienced the future - as a direct result of Nibbler’s own actions.
      Quote
      ... and could decide what he wanted in some kind of reasonable fashion, allowed him to make that choice. So yeah, they get demerits for messing with Fry in the first place... but the fact that Nibbler, when faced with the chance to rectify the situation, was willing to risk the fate of the entire universe on Fry’s choice, gives me faith in Nibbler’s integrity (and in the ethical motives of Nibblonian culture in general).
      • Every decision Fry makes after being thawed out is tainted because;
      • Fry would never have experienced the events of the show otherwise.
        Not that I’m complaining: There would be no show except for this, but that still doesn’t make what Nibbler did right
      • Yes, Nibbler might be ethical, but;
      • The Eternian’s ethics as a race are another issue.
      Quote
      Originally posted by Venus:
      How exactly would he go about doing that though?
      “That,” referring to this:
      Quote
      Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
      … why doesn't he [Nibbler] use his immensely superior mental powers to offset her [Leela’s] crippling loneliness and low self esteem?
      Answer:
      Quote
      Originally posted by Shiny:
      By hiding his superior mental powers and consenting to pretend to be a sweet, cuddly, adorable companion who always loves her and keeps her company in the bare little apartment where she would otherwise be utterly alone...  big grin
      While having a pet does have health benefits, and can be a huge solace, we were discussing Nibbler “offsetting” some of Leela’s emotional issues (sic) using his presumed telepathic abilities, rather than merely psychological, or behavioral means.
      But I already responded to that above... so I'm... only flapping my lips now...
      I’ll just ooze back out under the door now...
      Ralph Snart

      Agent Provocateur
      Near Death Star Inhabitant
      DOOP Secretary
      *
      « Reply #514 on: 09-13-2006 14:54 »

       
      Quote
      The Eternian’s ethics as a race are another issue.

      There is where I really need to go.  Nibbler may have looked at guarding 'The Mighty One' as his assigned mission, but over time he grew to be fond of both Leela and Fry.  (Bender is another story. Nibbler would probably be glad to see him melted down and used as a doorstop.)

      The race, however, shows that they have no problem sacrificing Fry 'for the greater good'.  The Brains seem to have a very dim view of the Eternians: [brain]Good, the Nibolonians?  hahahahaha[/brain].  Maybe for good reason - in some ways, the Eternians may be as manipulative and uncaring as the Brains.

      So, Nibbler may have 'adopted' Leela as his 'pet human' because she is a good person with a good heart and he knows that she treats him like a family member.  Fry, he has come to appreciate because he knows that Fry honestly cares for and values Leela as a person.

       
      Quote
      While having a pet does have health benefits, and can be a huge solace, we were discussing Nibbler “offsetting” some of Leela’s emotional issues (sic) using his presumed telepathic abilities, rather than merely psychological, or behavioral means.

      Bingo!  Some may see thought manipulation by Nibbler in this regard as being evil - but this is Leela - a person with a scarred psych from years of abuse, abandoment issues, etc.  It should break any caring being's heart to see any creature carry so much grief and self-loathing.

      Ralph 'I pamper my pets, Nibbler should too' Snart
      Menelaus
      Crustacean
      *
      « Reply #515 on: 09-13-2006 18:09 »
      « Last Edit on: 09-13-2006 18:09 »

      Well, I've been searching for a good place to bring up this topic, and this thread seems appropriate. You see, I have been a fan of Futurama for a long time. It was only recently through a friend and fellow futurama fan (Hopeless Shipper) that I learned of the internet exploits of the show. Through him I also learned about the shippers. Now do not misunderstand I am not an anti-shipper. I would have no problem with Leela and Fry getting together. However, I really wish the story line would end either way.

      In my opinion, some of the worst episodes were the ones that dealt primarily with Fry and Leela's relationship (i.e. The Sting and excepting Parasites lost). Time keeps on slippin' could have been so much better if they had left out all that pain in the ass emotional stuff. Call me insensitive or shallow, but I watch the show to laugh. I have enough worries with out having to get wrapped up in the emotions of Fry and Leela.

      Since my desire is that the plot line end, and since the only way Fry will ever leave Leela alone is if they get together then I guess you could say I am a shipper in a wierd way. In any case, thank you for entertaining the insane ramblings of a guy with way too much free time.

      also: Have you ever noticed how the episodes that deal with Fry and Leela usually end with them seemingly getting closer and then the next time the topic comes up they are back at square one?
      KitKatBar-Fry

      Liquid Emperor
      **
      « Reply #516 on: 09-13-2006 19:22 »

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by Menelaus:
       

      In my opinion, some of the worst episodes were the ones that dealt primarily with Fry and Leela's relationship (i.e. The Sting and excepting Parasites lost). Time keeps on slippin' could have been so much better if they had left out all that pain in the ass emotional stuff.

      AAAAH! The Sting and Parasites Lost weren't good? AND Time Keeps On Slippin'? This makes me very sad...
      *sits in corner and cries*  cry
      Xanfor

      DOOP Secretary
      *
      « Reply #517 on: 09-13-2006 20:34 »

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by Menelaus:
      also: Have you ever noticed how the episodes that deal with Fry and Leela usually end with them seemingly getting closer and then the next time the topic comes up they are back at square one?

      Well, you can't really look at the relationship  on an episode by episode basis. You really have to look for trends in how they behave around each other. You'll notice that in 'Parasites Lost', Leela was willing to spend a day with him if she had to, but by  '300 Big Boys', she found herself spending a day with him willingly. You'll also notice that 'The Farnsworth Parabox' occurs between these two aforementioned episodes, and in which Leela agrees to go on a date with him. Coincidence? Not if you can understand it!

      And as for the Nibblonian debate... I'm not here. I stated my opinions already, but don't stop! I'm fascinated by all these viewpoints.

      @Shiny: About these POTM matters... Allow me to explain fully. If you look at PEEL, a large part of it is now Off-Topic. But now, 'Futurama' is returning, and us On-Topicers have to take the board back to what it originally was meant for. 'Futurama'! So, you are our representative, our 'ambassador', if you will, into the comeback of the primary and original purpose of this forum. When several On-Topicers win POTM several times in a row, and [-mArc-] informs us that Off-Topic is now moving so slow that it will never crash, then we will know that our mission is complete. Win, Shiny, win!

      In other news, I've finished my next fic, and I just have to format it for UBB code. Oh, yes, and I'm not posting it until someone bumps my fanfic thread, thank you very much.  tongue

      Stay tuned until tomorrow, at which time I will post more shippy stuff and will expect more Eternian debates.

      Xanfor has spoken!

      HopelessShipper

      Bending Unit
      ***
      « Reply #518 on: 09-13-2006 20:49 »

      @KKB-F He wasn't dissing Parasites Lost, but that's little consolation... (Don't worry Menelaus isn't that heartless in real life. At least he didn't diss TDHAIPT, I shall never forgive him for bagging on TS though.)


      Now for some discussion...
       
      Quote
      Originally posted by Ralph "Flame Retardent Suite" Snart:Although the shippers don't agree with me, I've always felt that Leela will never realize how important Fry is to her until he's no longer around.

      Really, how many times can anybody - even Fry - get rejected, lied to, insulted and basicly treated as Leela's 'safe guy' (my wife's description) before resentment builds up and he gives up.

      I will now take the flames from Shiny, Xanfor, Hopeless Shipper and Venus for my statements.

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by Hopeless "Is english his second language?" Shipper:Didn't they do that basic thing with "The Sting"? - "I've always felt that Leela will never realize how important Fry is to her until he's no longer around."

      I hope you don't take this as a flame, I agree with you - mostly. Something drastic has to happen for Leela to have any type of epiphany regarding Fry, and it can't come from something that Fry does for/to her directly (Why should that work next time, it hasn't in the past.)

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by Chug a Bug:
      No flames here, just a hopefully reasoned argument. You don't have to a diehard shipper to see that as a fundamental misunderstanding of their relationship. She'd probably be quite glad if he gave up it'd be a relief from his constant badgering.

      And thats not being mean, why should she automatically feel the same way as he does about her? Afterall she never asked for his attentions in the first place. What part of 'I'm Not Interested' does he not understand anyhow? Everyone hates her for it and calls her a bitch etc but I think she's a saint. I'm not sure I'd have her patience in dealing with him I'd probably have lost my rag by now. But she doesn't because she cares about him too much.

      She cares about him deeply as a friend she's not interested in him romantically and theres nothing wrong with that.

      Bring on the pudding!
      KitKatBar-Fry

      Liquid Emperor
      **
      « Reply #519 on: 09-13-2006 20:58 »

      Heehee, I love your siggy, HS.  big grin ooh, ooh! Can I be one of those trained parrots? I can do good impressions of people.

      Back on-topic though, I was thinking along the same lines as the quotes you posted above. I hate how Fry says "there has to be something I can do to MAKE you love me, Leela." It just doesn't sound right. I do believe that there will be a shippy ending once Fry does something impulsive and loving for her.
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