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Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #400 on: 08-19-2006 06:52 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
Fry does have a tendency to use the 'throw self in front of and hope for the best' maneuver when Leela is involved doesn't he?



How freaking adorable is that?! I love when he gets all protective like that!
*Adds to shippy photo collection*

It's some of the best Fry moments when he has a determinated action on impulse moment, especially when he's all being self sacrificial.
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #401 on: 08-19-2006 11:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:

i also replay certain lines to study vocal inflections. When i watched the Sting last night i kept replaying Leela's "It got through" line. I love her tone so much. Also Fry's "Just. Wake. Up. Please" Billy West is such a wonderful actor. Actually the tone of Fry's voice at that part is the entire inspiration to my fic.


Venus, if you feel so strongly about Billy, give him a visit at his website - he has a forum and he responds to the vistors.  He's a very gracious host, and I'm sure that he'd appreciate your kind words about his talent.

Futurama is his favorite work to date - he can't say enough about working with John, Katie and the others.  He's very lavish with his praise to Matt Groening and DXC, and he's very thankful to his fans.

Just don't mention Ren and Stimpy.  He's really bitter about that experience...

Okay you cunts, let's see what you can do now.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #402 on: 08-19-2006 23:46 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
Just don't mention Ren and Stimpy.  He's really bitter about that experience...
Huh?  confused
That's news to me.
Where might I find more information on the subject?
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #403 on: 08-19-2006 23:56 »

There was a recent interview (Link was posted about a month or so ago here on PEEL) where he gave a synopsis of his days on Ren and Stimpy.  He feels he wasn't given the proper credit for his work, that he was treated unfairly and wasn't paid what he was promised.

In the same interview he gives praise to MG and DXC for treating him very well at RDS.

He has such hatred about his treatment on Ren and Stimpy that he requests that fans not ask questions about R&S on his message board.

If I find the link, I'll email it to you.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #404 on: 08-21-2006 05:31 »

Thanky.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #405 on: 08-21-2006 19:05 »

Xanfor, if you can hear us, we miss you.  Come back as soon as you can.

Until then, I'll have to keep the light on in the window...although the shippy pic of the day will have to be "the shippy pic of every few days."  'Every day' just isn't my idiom.

But, it's every few days now, so...


And the shippy quote of the second or third day, in a clean sweep:
 
Quote
I wish I had died instead of her.

Yes, here it is, right in first season...Fry's self-sacrifical nature rears its adorable head.  Not, admittedly, because he loves her yet, but I'll bet this was an important first epiphany in that direction.

Bask in the proto-ship and enjoy.  smile
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #406 on: 08-21-2006 21:16 »

Fry can sometimes be an ass to his friends, but when rubber meets road he has their back in a most awesome way.
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #407 on: 08-21-2006 22:29 »

yes, indeedy. that delivery boy is rather stupid, yet very sweet.
an adorable combination.

when i first saw that episode, i was rather new to the show and therefore had no idea which episodes were in what season. when i watched it, i assumed it was already into the episodes when he first started to like her. but then i got the DVDs and learned it was in the 1st season. wow. His feelings for Leela go a long way back...
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #408 on: 08-21-2006 23:01 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:wow. His feelings for Leela go a long way back...

They were making googlie eyes way back in the pilot. Which is argument number one for the inevitability of The Ship to be consummated/married.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #409 on: 08-21-2006 23:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by HopelessShipper:
 They were making googlie eyes way back in the pilot...

  laff  Accurate, and hilariously put! 

To quote a smelly lobster, "There's no part of that sentence I didn't like!"
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #410 on: 08-22-2006 00:49 »

Thanks for the praise Shiny.

This is another reason Fry&Leela is an atypical television ship, it was there (in a small way) from day one. Who knows what could have happened if Bender didn't jack Leela's ring...
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #411 on: 08-22-2006 01:21 »

oh no...what would have happened?! so many shippy possibilites...

Like you guys said, it was there from ep. #1. although at the time no one really paid attention to it, it was there. there were actually a lot of shippery things in season one...the look in ep. 1, Fry being extremely dissapointed in what Leela had done with Zapp in ep.4, Fry crying over her in ep.7, them almost kissing (almost!?!) in ep.10...it was all planted waaaaay back.
Futurama Llama

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #412 on: 08-23-2006 01:38 »

Their seeds of love were planted waaaay back in Season 1 and slowly they have been growing together in strength and in love...so maybe in the movies we will see those "Shippery Love Seeds" grow to their...full potential.

Their seed grows with every day;
and their love grows with it.
They will love each other in every way;
growing bit by bit.

sorry for the poem... i got possessed.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #413 on: 08-23-2006 04:46 »

Though their times and paths got troubled,
together they pulled it through.
And although some are in self-denial,
their love is surely true.
So listen to what I say, my friends,
and view these images full of romance.
Of Leela trapped in a position of shock,
and Fry in a protective stance.
These clues have been quite useful,
in the development of the 'Ship.
So I'm not worrin' and neither should you,
so back to those bantering quips!



 
Quote
Is there nothing in the future worth saving?


Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #414 on: 08-23-2006 06:58 »

Yay! Glad you're back, Xanfor!
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #415 on: 08-23-2006 19:33 »

Nice poem indeed Xanfor, it was getting lonely without you.
Futurama Llama

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #416 on: 08-23-2006 19:40 »

Oh! Ignore the Bending Unit's crappy poem, eh?
Well fine!
*pouts*
mookie427

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #417 on: 08-24-2006 04:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by HopelessShipper:
Nice poem indeed Xanfor, it was getting lonely without you.

He left? Sorry I wasn't paying attention

Nice poem, by the way
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #418 on: 08-24-2006 04:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny B. Trimble*:

I, too, see the comedy and drama as separate.  Having Leela and Fry get together will not wreck the comedy; but it might impact the drama, because it will destroy a certain part of the tension.

Sure, we all joke about "Unresolved Sexual Tension," or UST, but tension is a real part of drama.  Other TV shows have found that interest drops after its UST is resolved. ( "Moonlighting," for instance, was a show entirely built on UST. ) As the Wikipedia stub on it says, UST is "a common mechanism in fiction, which enables the relationship between characters to build up a powerful erotic charge without actually becoming sexual....When the sexual tension [is] resolved, the tension that made the relationship interesting to the audience disappear(s)."

That said, I think that Futurama has much more going for it than UST.  For one thing, Fry and Leela have much more of an "unresoved ROMANTIC tension" between them, rather than just a sexual one.  For another, Successful romances can be as funny as unsuccessful ones if enough other tensions exist around it (re, Dharma and Greg).  Thirdly, there will always be the tension between Fry the lackadaisical slacker and Leela the practical captain (add in Bender's hyperkinetic petty crime tendencies and the brew becomes more interesting). 

Fourthly, Fry and Leela's relationship is important, but not the actual focus of the show.  The focus is comedy based on subverting, inverting,  and/or otherwise playing surreal pinball with common “tropes” (literally meaning “a play on words,” figuratively meaning "devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations" (TV Tropes Wiki Home Page); usually science fiction, animation and action adventure tropes, but random tropes can be found in varying amounts.  Mix in a few handfuls of science, a quarter cup of drama, a healthy dollop of heart, and then add robots - viola! Futurama!

In my humble opinion, Futurama’s drama could survive Fry & Leela getting together as long as some other long-term tensions remained (like the Nibblonian prophecy stuff); and also as long as Fry and Leela still conflict normally over other issues, Bender remains an anti-social petty criminal with a soft spot for his crewmates, the Professor remains a senile, amoral crackpot, Zoidberg remains a poor, hungry, lonely, pathetic bizarre lobster thing, etc. etc.; and lastly, as long as other books, movies, and TV shows remain to have fun poked at them by a team of brilliant, clever, and geeky writers.

Now, if only the show's creators would just agree with ME....       wink

~~~~~~

(And now, being inspired but having no scanner, I will present the following cartoon strip in narrative form: )


-----------
Panel 1: a dark Planet Express building.  The Professor stands in the center of the conference area.

Prof (horrified): “Great Balls of Plasma, we’re completely powerless!  The unthinkable must have happened!”
-----------
Panel 2:He rushes into the lounge, to see Fry and Leela on the sofa.  Leela lays across Fry’s chest, hair unbound; beneath a small coverlet, they are clearly naked.  Both wear sappy, sweet smiles.

Prof (sadly, hand clapped to forehead): “I knew it.”
-----------
Panel 3-4: Professor walking downstairs to the basement with dejected look.
-----------
Panel 5: The Professor pulls a giant electrical plug out of an equally giant socket which is attached to a flat surface, like a wall.

Prof: “Four years of free power, gone!  What a tragedy!”
-----------
Panel 6: PULLBACK to reveal that the giant socket is actually attached to the flat side of a large machine, of the “big box of unexplainable dials” variety.  In one dial window we see a small picture of Fry, in another we see one of Leela.  Both dials are sunk to the “0" level on the left, and in between them a vertical readout containing a column of measures also reads "0". 

The name of the device is emblazoned along the bottom: “The Unresolved Sexual Tension Power Converter - The Ultimate in Electroerotic Energy Storage.”


Prof (walking away; *sighs*): “Now I’ll have to go back to burning rhesus monkeys....”

*: Just for anyone wondering... This funny name is a 'Star Trek Lives' reference.

Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #419 on: 08-24-2006 07:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
Shiny J. Trimble*...

*: Just for anyone wondering... This funny name is a 'Star Trek Lives' reference.

Hee!  [Fry] I get it! [/Fry]

(And Bjo Trimble actually used to live near Houston, too...I know people who've actually, like, talked to her in person... )

Muchas gracias, Seńor Xanforo.   big grin
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #420 on: 08-24-2006 07:22 »

I had supper with Bjo Trimble in 1978 - back when I was a true Trek geek and before it was fashionable to be one.

Out-geek that, Shiny!
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #421 on: 08-24-2006 12:32 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
... Out-geek that, Shiny!
[*Hums the first nine notes of "Dueling Banjo's"*]  roll eyes

[*Ahem*]

GEEK FI-I-I-I-I-GHT!

  laff
Futurama Llama

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #422 on: 08-24-2006 18:17 »

Its been years since i saw a good GEEK FIGHT!
Go at it! Let's keep it clean now...
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #423 on: 08-24-2006 18:28 »

I cannot compete...I came to Trek too late in life.  I just know a lot of first-gen-Trek fans. 

I concede the title of "Top Trek Geek of PEEL" to the good Mr. Snart.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #424 on: 08-24-2006 20:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
... I concede the title of "Top Trek Geek of PEEL" to the good Mr. Snart.
[Zoidberg]
Aww...
[/Zoidberg]
  wink
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #425 on: 08-24-2006 21:05 »
« Last Edit on: 08-24-2006 21:05 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
I concede the title of "Top Trek Geek of PEEL" to the good Mr. Snart.

Say it aint so Shiny. Don't worry, you are still are #1 when it comes to slapping down BS ideas. My face still hurts...     big grin

I regret being born after TOS, but it isn't so bad being a child of TNG.
------------------
[Fry]Now that’s entertainment.[/Fry]
TriggerHappyJim

Professor
*
« Reply #426 on: 08-24-2006 21:11 »

It was hardly a fair fight. Ralph has had years to raise/lower himself to such levels of geekiness. Meaning no disrespect Mr. Snart, but you must be one of the oldest people on this board.  tongue

Nerd pride y'all!

*Rolls d20*

*Rolls a "2"*

*Smacks self in foot with sword*
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #427 on: 08-24-2006 22:07 »

Hooray!  People have forgotten how old I am!


Er, oops...


(Though Ralph definitely wins that competition, too....  tongue )
Ralph Snart

Agent Provocateur
Near Death Star Inhabitant
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #428 on: 08-24-2006 22:52 »

Let's see, Crash-7, Captain Skuskin, Filthy Crab and Mom-Rules are in my age bracket, with Shiny being a cool 3 years younger than me.

I love my current wife with all my heart, but she's not quite the Sci-Fi geek that Lisa was.  How many guys can claim to have a wife who orders his and hers Star Trek uniforms?  Lisa was really into the sci-fi scene.  She could easily out-geek us all.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #429 on: 08-24-2006 23:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
... Lisa was really into the sci-fi scene.  She could easily out-geek us all.
[*Shudders*]

Wow...  eek
That's just... scary.

  wink
Chug a Bug

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #430 on: 08-25-2006 14:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
oh no...what would have happened?! so many shippy possibilites...

Like you guys said, it was there from ep. #1. although at the time no one really paid attention to it, it was there. there were actually a lot of shippery things in season one...the look in ep. 1, Fry being extremely dissapointed in what Leela had done with Zapp in ep.4, Fry crying over her in ep.7, them almost kissing (almost!?!) in ep.10...it was all planted waaaaay back.

Not to mention Fry wanting to take Leela on a ride in the Tunnel of Love at the amusement park in "Hell is Other Robots".

Oh wait, thats only in the animatic and was cut from finished ep.  tongue
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #431 on: 08-25-2006 15:21 »

@ Chug a Bug: You goose, you. The animatic is only shown on the Monster Robot Maniac Fun or whatever its called thing, right?
Futurama Llama

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #432 on: 08-25-2006 16:45 »

I think so, yeah.

I was born in a VERY Star-Warsy home. I haven't had much exposure to the Star Trek Series.

"Live long and prosper."

By the way, WHAT do the past few posts have to do with being a shipper?
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #433 on: 08-26-2006 01:28 »
« Last Edit on: 08-26-2006 01:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Futurama Llama:
By the way, WHAT do the past few posts have to do with being a shipper?

If everyone in the thread is a shipper, than there isn't much to debate about. So this thread is more of a meeting place for like minded individuals.

Bring on the pudding!
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #434 on: 08-26-2006 09:02 »

But there is stuff to post.  wink

 
Quote
Originally posted by Invader Jenny:
If I could have things my way (which never happens) is to have the final closing episode be about the romantic resolution of Fry and Leela. Lots of drama, lots of sacrifice, lots of fluttery eyed sighs, and lots of comedy.

Basically what I am imagining in the final moments of the episode/movie is this:

There is a voice over by someone (possibly Zoidberg, a la "Love and Rocket" ) giving a sappy ending narrative.
You see Fry and Leela looking at each other happily as the narritive continues. The camera pulls to a wider angle and you see an adorable, 5 year old, red-haired daughter between the two of them. Fry lifts her into his arm and places his other arm around Leela, and all three look out into a lovely nebula through a giant space window.
The narrative ends with something sappy but wonderfully cliche like, "Your future is still what you make of it."
Then Bender puts his arms around them from behind, pokes his head between Fry and Leela, and takes center attention as the camera rolls to credits.

It warms my heart to envision an ending like that.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Demeter:
All I can say it, the show would loose all tension between those two characters and a heap of opportunities to show their 'love' would be lost. So, YES, they SHOULD get together, but for the sake of the show, no, they shouldn't. Plus if anyone knows Kim Possible, Ron and Kim are going out know. Can you just see the elements of lovey-dovey love all through the episodes.

It would make the show a lot less watchable with ANOTHER couple like Amy and Kif, especially with that couple being between two of the main characters

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
I must the the only one who thinks that they could be a happy couple and still have a decent show. We can have Leela's jealousy rear its ugly head if Fry becomes friendly (but not that way) towards another woman. Fry can show his love for her by doing almost-suicidal things to protect her and keep her safe.

There can be eps like Leela thinking she's pregnant and thinking about having a child - having the family she always wanted and Fry having different thoughts because of the type of family that he had. There's a lot that can be done in humor and seriousness with the two as a couple, married or not.

After a while, the two getting close to a kiss or Leela almost admitting her love for Fry, then the next episode hits the "RESET" button gets old and tired.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
I'm with ya Ralph. Also there's the fact that only three or so eps per season were ever really focused on the relationship. I don't see that changing even if they were to get together. It's not like they would fall all over each other and be all love and sunshine all the time. Fry would still be dumb, Leela would still have her issues, not a lot would actually change except that the few eps that did focus on them wouldn't follow the old 'reset button' formula

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
BE STILL MY RACING HEART!

Venus and I agree totally on one subject?  Break out the Cham-paggen!

True, the eps that would focus on them could have humor and heartache as two different people who care deeply for each other learn how to deal with their issues and still keep the relationship going.  Also, it wouldn't have to be "THE MAIN PLOT" for every ep.  In some it wouldn't even be acknowledged.

How would Bender deal with his best friend moving out and living with Leela?  Would he move in with them (oh, the hilarity that would ensue between Bender/Leela fights); would Fry takes sides as the two fought?  Would Fry get jealous of Zapp's continued attempts to romance Leela?

Really, to me the "Off again, off-again" relationship of Fry pursuing Leela and her constantly shooting him down has run its course with me.  Somewhere in her heart, Leela has to acknowledge that the one person who sacrificed himself for her and was the only one who stayed by her side when everybody else gave her up for dead deserves a chance.

Anybody who thinks that the 'tension' goes out of a relationship when they get engaged or married obviously has done neither.  To tell the truth, a whole new area can be explored in the new DVD has the two become a couple then for some reason fall apart at the end (remember, LaMarche has promised a tear-jerker ending), only to patch their differences up during the next DVD.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Chug a Bug:
I agree the show could survive their getting together but I think people would lose interest in the shippy part, if you look at the "Farnsworth Parabox," the other Fry/Leela, once you got over the surprise I can see people losing interest rapidly, it'd be a resounding "meh", or maybe thats just me.

I mean I think people would rapidly lose interest in the lovey dovey stuff especially. Thats a real turn-off. Theres just no romantic tension anymore. When you look at real couples and you have to share their space and they're all over each other its really uninteresting for anyone else, whilst you might have been interested in them getting together in the first place once they do it's all over for you, it's like "get a room you two!"

So while want to see them getting together I don't want it to be too soon. But then again I think if they drag the will they, won't they, out too long then I think they could lose the audience interest too, so it's a tough one to get the balance right I think.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
They can be together and still be interesting. I loved Buffy and Spike when they were together, and Mulder and Scully when they were together. When Buffy and Spike stopped being together i was dissapointed and when Mulder and Scully got together i was like "Bought freaking time!" and was dissapointed that we only got to see them be together for like 2 eps.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Chug a Bug:
When Buffy and Spike got together there was still a tension though, especially as she didn't love him she was just using him for sex, whilst he did... but could an audience have put up with Mulder and Scully being lovey dovey for too long?

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by Venus:
...not a lot would actually change except that the few eps that did focus on them wouldn't follow the old 'reset button' formula
---------------------

No, they would follow a NEW 'reset button' formula.    wink

 
Quote
Originally posted by Eve-Marie:
I don't think they should ever get together permanently, although i might think differently if I hadn't seen the paralell Fry & Leela in The Fansworth Parabox

 
Quote
Originally posted by HopelessShipper:

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
I must the the only one who thinks that they could be a happy couple and still have a decent show.
---------------------

You can add me to the list, I've been arguing that all this week. Any thing that I put here would be redundant after what Ralph, Venus, Shiny (not sure of your opinion on this, but you gave excellent opinion on the subject) and I have said on the subject. The haters just haven't been able to refute the obvious.

KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #435 on: 08-26-2006 09:20 »

well said, Xanfor. I am just starting to think that way too. You people may just have converted me. Let me think about it...
mookie427

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #436 on: 08-26-2006 10:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
well said, Xanfor. I am just starting to think that way too. You people may just have converted me. Let me think about it...

....you've thought about it too long! Join us in our conversations of love and relationships  tongue

Once you're in, there's no way out!
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #437 on: 08-26-2006 13:14 »

There is one way out, but I dare not speak of it. So much blood and gore...

Anywho, the discussion Shiny and I were having about the connection between drama and comedy on Futurama is worth continuing. It is a key argument about the very nature of Futurama.

 
Quote
Originally posted by HopelessShipper:Ah, this is the stem of the argument, do you see the drama and comedy as one and the same, or as two separate machinations? I don't fear loosing the comedy due to a shift in the drama because I see them as separate.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:I, too, see the comedy and drama as separate. Having Leela and Fry get together will not wreck the comedy; but it might impact the drama, because it will destroy a certain part of the tension.

Sure, we all joke about "Unresolved Sexual Tension," or UST, but tension is a real part of drama. Other TV shows have found that interest drops after its UST is resolved. ( "Moonlighting," for instance, was a show entirely built on UST. ) As the Wikipedia stub on it says, UST is "a common mechanism in fiction, which enables the relationship between characters to build up a powerful erotic charge without actually becoming sexual....When the sexual tension [is] resolved, the tension that made the relationship interesting to the audience disappear(s)."

That said, I think that Futurama has much more going for it than UST. For one thing, Fry and Leela have much more of an "unresoved ROMANTIC tension" between them, rather than just a sexual one. For another, Successful romances can be as funny as unsuccessful ones if enough other tensions exist around it (re, Dharma and Greg). Thirdly, there will always be the tension between Fry the lackadaisical slacker and Leela the practical captain (add in Bender's hyperkinetic petty crime tendencies and the brew becomes more interesting).

Fourthly, Fry and Leela's relationship is important, but not the actual focus of the show. The focus is comedy based on subverting, inverting, and/or otherwise playing surreal pinball with common “tropes” (literally meaning “a play on words,” figuratively meaning "devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations" (TV Tropes Wiki Home Page); usually science fiction, animation and action adventure tropes, but random tropes can be found in varying amounts. Mix in a few handfuls of science, a quarter cup of drama, a healthy dollop of heart, and then add robots - viola! Futurama!

In my humble opinion, Futurama’s drama could survive Fry & Leela getting together as long as some other long-term tensions remained (like the Nibblonian prophecy stuff); and also as long as Fry and Leela still conflict normally over other issues, Bender remains an anti-social petty criminal with a soft spot for his crewmates, the Professor remains a senile, amoral crackpot, Zoidberg remains a poor, hungry, lonely, pathetic bizarre lobster thing, etc. etc.; and lastly, as long as other books, movies, and TV shows remain to have fun poked at them by a team of brilliant, clever, and geeky writers.

Now, if only the show's creators would just agree with ME....  wink

Shiny and I agree about the seperation, however, many do see them as connected, now is their time to weigh in.

Bring on the pudding!
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #438 on: 08-27-2006 07:44 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
I'm in favor of it - Fry and Leela spending some time as a couple before the end of the series.  It would have to be handled carefully, because it's a tricky situation that is difficult to get "right," but the Futurama writers are the only writing team I would trust with something that requires such a delicate balance of drama and comedy (normally I would only trust sole creators on this one, and not very many of them - Joss Whedon has my unqualified confidence, but with JMS I'd have to qualify it just a little tiny bit...can't recall any others off the cuff, but you know what I mean... ).

While the Futurama team is not without flaw (not so much because they produced "That's Lobstertainment" but because (according to the commentaries) apparently they still don't see it as a weak episode), the number of times they got it right far outweighs the times they missed the mark.  I trust that, if they chose to, they could make Fry&Leela as a couple work, and work well, for as long as they wanted.

But as they apparently don't want to, I'll settle for a "happily united at the closing credits"*, with a hopeful longing for a bit of nookie** somewhere along the way.

*With no post-credits retraction! (she added, closing the loophole she suddenly noticed.)

**nookie, as in kissing, necking, cuddling.  I've been told that it can mean more than that; I'm using it as an American equivalent of the Brits' "snogging."

Shiny

(P.S. - actually, my greatest fear is that they'll attempt to defy fan expectations, since Futurama is so into subverting tropes and all, and give us the "Mary Tyler Moore Show" solution. 

In the next-to-the-last (or close to it) episode of MTMS, Mary Richards laments that she's 37 and still alone, and Georgette tells her there's a good, available man right in front of her - her boss, Lou Grant.  Mary is shocked at this idea, but considers it, and tells Mr. Grant about it and invites him over for dinner.  His reaction is the same - shocked but not opposed to considering it.  They are both kind of adorably nervous about the whole thing, but willing to entertain the possibility, and gamely but awkwardly meet to have a romantic dinner in Mary’s apartment.  The plot point is when they lean in (cautious as pre-teens in the 1950's) and kiss.

The timing is brilliant.  Their lips meet.  They stay that way for a few beats.  Then their lips begin to curl up in simultaneous smiles, and as they separate, they both start laughing gently - at themselves, at each other.  Their mutal assessment is "That was the silliest kiss ever."  Mary puts out the candles and they revert, totally comfortably, to chatting and eating dinner as friends.

It's an adorable episode (and possibly the first example of "fanservice" on American TV - I don't know if the show’s makers got letters about Mary and Lou getting together, but it seems like something that could have happened).  But my greatest fear is that something like this will happen on Futurama - that Fry and Leela finally have a kiss, and discover they have no chemistry.

BUT, my optimistic half reminds me, the situations ARE very different.  Mary and Lou had no long-running romantic tension - that I’m aware of (I WAS pretty young, though I saw some episodes a few years ago on reruns, including this one); this was just a one-shot episode exploring something that hadn’t been explored, whereas on Futurama the ship has been repeatedly explored.  Mary and Lou’s relationship was a working relationship only, from the very beginning (the pilot was also one I saw in recent years, which reaquainted me with the brilliant line from Mary’s job interview - Lou Grant: “You’ve got spunk.”  Mary: “Oh, thank you!”  Lou: “I hate spunk.”  And the fact that Mary said “excuse me” to a chair she bumped into.  I’ve done that!      laff ), whereas Fry and Leela have had romantic tension ever since Leela removed her career chip.  Mary and Lou never got married in a skipped timeline, or (more telling for F&L) were long-term happily married in an alternate universe (don’t think that could happen if they had no chemistry). 

Most hope-inspiring, David X. Cohen seems to take the relationship seriously - he likes it when Fry gets some dignity in TDHAIP, and recognizes that Fry’s creativity IS still with him - only his means of expressing it are gone; and he wrote “The Why of Fry,” which is right up there with TDHAIP and “The Sting” for promise of future ship.  Not so much for “the other” comment as for the shot where Fry’s face is seen through the hole in Leela’s photo.  Gotta      love foreshadowing!  And the daisy.  (Apropos of not much, daisies are one of my favorite flowers - as a child I always said that when I got married I’d have a bouquet of daisies and yellow roses; now I qualify it to IF I ever get married, etc. etc.  But it means that I attach a “good romance vibe” to daisies in general.      roll eyes )

So I’m reasonably confident that they’re not going to do that to us; but enough doubt remains that it’s still the biggest fear I have for a “gotcha!” ending.  )

Shiny “The Parenthetical Remarks Just Keep Getting Longer” J. Fangirl


 
Quote
Originally posted by SpaceCase:

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
I must the the only one who thinks that they could be a happy couple and still have a decent show.
---------------------

Are you ready for another shock, Ralph?

I think so too.
I think the Futurama writers are good enough, I think the Fry’Leela ‘ship is robust enough- oh, just a minute…

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by Shiny:
I'm in favor of it - Fry and Leela spending some time as a couple before the end of the series. It would have to be handled carefully, because it's a tricky situation that is difficult to get "right," but the Futurama writers are the only writing team I would trust with something that requires such a delicate balance of drama and comedy… the number of times they got it right far outweighs the times they missed the mark. I trust that, if they chose to, they could make Fry&Leela as a couple work, and work well, for as long as they wanted.
---------------------

Aw nut’s. Ms. Shiny J. (Faster-on-the-draw-than-SpaceCase) Fangirl already beat me to it!

Essentially, I agree with you too, Shiny. I think the writers are good enough to pull it off.
But: It is a treacherous, winding, narrow path, fraught with opportunities for failure - I refer, of course, to the plot, not the ‘ship.
Shiny, your reasoning is clear as intergalactic space, but I think you missed one thing, and that is the prime opportunity for disaster:

How will the fans react?

We can talk about it all we want (it’s fun, why not?), but the only way to know is to see the finished product.
But if we don’t like it... by then it’s too late.

Just adding my little ray of sunshine!    laff

Space(trying to catch up on this middle-name thing)Case    wink

Note to self: Learn to flamin' type!

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #439 on: 08-27-2006 08:35 »

Eek! A double post!

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
I see Fry’s “worst” girlfriend, not as being the worst as a match for Fry (none of the ones in the poll are remotely compatible in any long term way), but as being the worst person of all Fry’s love-interests.

I’d say it’s certainly between Morgan and Michelle.  Now, I love Michelle as a "bad guy," and I actually like "Cryonic Woman" a lot because I find her so funny in a "worst-case-scenario-girlfriend" way.  (I don't know of anyone who can top "Stop standing UP for yourself, Fry!" for sheer blatant awfulness that's also hilarious; even Alkazar making Leela sort his naked celebrity photos doesn't approach that, considering the circumstances she's put Fry in at that point. )  Plus I really like the actress's voice, for some reason; I find her whole "what-happened-to-me-after-you-left" monolog enjoyable every time I watch CW, which is odd, because I never usually like something that lacks all trace of our main characters (except for Fry's disembodied repetition of "sorry" ), so I guess it's because of her voice and the exaggerated hint of  tramatized whinyness in her performance...something about it is "just right," y'know?

Anyway, ripping on Michelle is one of my favorite hobbies (much to DavidA's annoyance   tongue) and I consider her the biggest loser of all Fry's gf's.  However, if I'm asked to say which was "worst" as a gf, I have to have a good look at how much damage they tried to do to Fry and his friends.

It’s still between Morgan and Michelle.  Petunia was pretty bad, but all she did was steal some food and go about her business.  Edna was too clueless to be “worst,” she was obeying her species’ weird biological dictates, and was in a situation she was not equipped to deal with psychologically; in other words, she was totally out of her depth (sorry   wink).  There was nothing wrong with Umbriel or the Liubot other than physical constraints, and the woman from the Hip Joint was just a whoopie partner, not a “love” of Fry’s (and it looked like both parties probably enjoyed themselves and did no damage, so I don’t see a problem there).  The radiator woman led Fry on a bit and then he got burned, but she was just lonely, and Fry did the pursuing and has no one else to blame. 

Morgan and Michelle are the only ones who actually set out to hurt people to get what they want.  I don’t want to let my feeling for Michelle as “the villain I love to hate” cloud my judgement here, though; let me look at it objectively.

Let's see.  Michelle was lonely and scared and feeling very out of place.  Of course, she hardly gave the 31st century any chance at all; she came there to escape her problems, and she wanted to run away again as soon as her new life proved to be the slightest bit challenging.  Which makes her a coward, not evil, but she wasn’t content just to slink off on her own: she wanted to drag Fry away with her, despite knowing full well that he fit in fine and was happy where he was, just so she wouldn’t have to be alone.  That kind of pure, unheeding selfishness DOES make her evil, in my book.  Also, no doubt she felt Fry would be easier to “convince” of things (read: manipulate) if he was away from his support system; and if she took him from the environment he knew, he would be as lost as her, and would then have nothing else to cling to but her (as she had nothing but him at that point).  In other words, she wanted to drag Fry down to her situation so she could have a companion in misery.   Ignoble, yes?  And, when her choice proved disastrous, she lifted not a hand to build the shelter, instead ordering Fry to do it(!), and shut him up by accusing him of “whining.”  When they found people to help them, she risked what little safety they had and got Fry to go through a risky ordeal just to win HER some status and power - again, doing nothing for herself, let alone for anyone else, and actively endangering others to get whatever she wanted.

Conclusion: evil.

Now, Morgan was just after some dirty sex (pun intended); nothing wrong with that.  She told Fry up front what she wanted and didn't try to deceive him.  She looks miles ahead of Michelle so far.  However...she flagrantly misused her position as Acting Bureaucrat, demoting Leela (for no real reason - perhaps she sensed that Fry has a thing for her and was quashing the competition?), assigning Bender to distasteful tasks to get him out of the way, and promoting Fry through sheer cronyism, all things that damaged Planet Express as well the people employed there (except Fry).   To cover her ass, she deprived Bender of his personality, which considering the “humanness” of robots in her time, is truly evil (it’s rather like Whatshisname Lockhart in the second Harry Potter book, wiping peoples’ memories to get ahead).  When Fry and the rest of our heroes thwarted her, she fired Fry and was obviously about to do more terrible things to Planet Express, for nothing but petty revenge and pique at being so thwarted.  All in all, she was utterly cynical about her job, caring nothing for efficiency or order on their own, but using them (and everything else around her) as a means to get what she, Morgan, wanted to have.      

Conclusion: evil.

So which one of them is the more evil?

When I look at it all spelled out like that, I have to say that I respect Morgan more. She is straightforward in her evil; she knows what she wants and sets out to get it, and doesn’t ask anyone else to get it for her.  However, she was willing to hurt not just Fry but also to “kill” Bender, to torment their friends, and also she clearly wasn’t worried that she might ruin Planet Express (Leela, who’s actually competant, reduced to serving under the autopilot?  Recipe for disaster right there) in the process.   By the sheer broadness of her radius of damage, Morgan would win.  Also, she doesn’t appear to be deluded about her own motives; she knows what she does is wrong and chooses to do it anyway.  She chooses evil of her own free will.

Michelle seems to believe her own bullshit to some degree; she appears to think she can make Fry happy (as long as he makes HER happy first, of course).  Therefore her evil is less a matter of choice.  She also inflicts damage on fewer people - only on Fry, really. 

But the level of damage she tried to inflict on Fry is truly horrendous.  If she had her way, Fry would be reduced to both an emotional cripple and an emotional crutch; the two of them would hobble around together, unable to survive alone, feeding off each other like a pair of leeches sucking each other’s blood.  To Michelle, Fry must be deprived of all other friends, all comfort, and all sense of belonging, just to be a comfort and a more compliant companion to her.  The fact that she doesn’t seem aware of just how evil she’s being mitigates her evilness a tiny bit - but as with all deeply manipulative, selfish people, you definitely get the sense that deep in her heart, she knows very well that what she does is wrong - but as long as she suffers no consequences, she doesn’t care.  Also, when she does encounter consequences, she can convince herself it was someone else’s fault, thus evading any responsibility for her own life as well. 

This doesn’t mean I think she’s totally evil and can never be in the right; I think that, in the guy she married who dumped her, she found someone even more manipulative than she, and got bamboozled.  I can feel a little sorry for her, but since she refuses to take any action for herself - instead trying to make another human being into a puppet for her own desires - I have no respect for her at all.

Therefore, I find Morgan to be more consciously evil, and her evil to be larger, with a greater scope of destruction; and I find Michelle’s evil to be more personal but thus more petty and much more contemptible.

So (you all scream at me) which one do you think is the WORST?  The bigger evil, or the more personal evil?

...

The personal.  I adore Fry, and I can’t help but take attempts to hurt him on a personal level.  I have never been as aghast watching Futurama as the first time I watched CW and thought they’d actually emerged in the year 4000 - HOW were even the brilliant Futurama writers going to get Fry out of THIS one? was my horrified thought.  And my relief when it turned out to be a foolie was so profound it was noticeably physical - I actually felt my chest muscles relax and allow my lungs to breathe more deeply.  I’m a TV veteran; I know the patterns and cliches and am very rarely suprised by plot developments, but this one penetrated my world-weary TV addict’s instincts and really “got” me. 

And so (to utterly fail at making a long story anything remotely resembling short): for almost depriving Fry of everything he cares about to feed her own neediness, Michelle gets my vote as Fry’s worst girlfriend.     

Bless her deliciously evil little heart.    evil laugh

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by Nerd-o-rama:      
The only out-of-characterness that spring to mind immediately is Bender in "A Pharaoh to Remember." I mean, we all know Bender is an asshole, but he doesn't usually enslave his friends. Also, what was with the masochism/brown-nosing when he was a slave?

~~~~~

Originally posted by HopelessShipper:

I have no problem saying Bender was OOC on "A Pharaoh..." It's been discussed before so I won't get into any details other than saying that Bender cares very deeply about Fry/Leela.
---------------------

Am I  the only Futurama fan who DOES believe that Bender cares very deeply about Fry and Leela...and yet still DOESN’T think he was OOC in "A Pharaoh to Remember?"

Lemme 'splain.  No wait, too long.  Lemme sum up:

Bender didn’t enslave his friends, they were already enslaved by the Osirans; he just took advantage of the situation afterward.  He made them his personal body servants, which meant that he knew nothing really terrible would happen to them; but he DOES love being in a position of power ( i.e., "War is the H-Word" ) and I don't think he could resist being able to lord it over them (he's kind of like a five-year-old that way - and who has ever met a five-year-old who they don’t think would go a little overboard if he/she became god-emperor of a planet for a while, hmmm?).  However, I have total faith that if Fry & Leela had ever been in REAL danger, he'd have changed his tune (a la "Fear of a Bot Planet" ) toot-sweet.

I think Bender's affection for his friends is plenty evident in “Pharaoh.”  He certainly couldn't bear to spend his "afterlife" without them; and their opinions matter so much that he was persuaded to blow up his monument - which would have let millions of people remember him for millions of years - by Leela and Fry pretending to forget him for two minutes.     laff


As for Bender brown-nosing and kissing ass...when HASN'T he kissed his idols' asses?  Elzar, the Harlem Globetrotters, Beck, Pharaoh...in each and every case, the subject of his unwavering sycophancy - whether they treat him like crap or not (the masochism).   

He only turned against Elzar when he found a new hero to emulate, and IMHO that is the key to his behavior: people who ARE something that Bender longs to BE earn his most abject, fawning adoration. To Bender, “hero worship” is a literal statement.     wink

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