JJ Abrams is a (visionary/disgrace) who must be (commended/stopped): Star Trek

[Reply #400 on:]

I'm gonna see it again tomorrow. I'll be more relaxed now and not painstakingly analyzing each actor's delivery.

I'm kind of feeling now what I had feared I would, that it was a bit too fast-paced for a true Trek movie. To the point where bits of it felt rushed. It could have used some slightly lengthier periods of quiet character-driven exchanges and some introspection. Not heaps, mind. Not like TMP-level, but just enough so that the whole thing didn't feel like a hundred-metre dash.
Honestly, the thing never really took a breath. It was just like quick run get on the ship shoot shoot shoot jump out of the ship arrrragh monster run run run hey look old spock beam back onto ship jump out of ship shoot shoot shoot oh shit black hole explosion waaah end credits. But I guess most people are just really stupid these days and that's the only way to hold their interest.

[Reply #401 on:]

I want to see the Star Trek movie, anything with Simon Pegg in it gets my approval!

[Reply #402 on:]

I want to see Star Trek again. But there's no big movie to see with it until June, but I haven't seen X-Men Origins yet, and Night at the Museum 2 looks like it could be fun.

terminator comes out this week iirc, you could see it with that.

[Reply #403 on:]

Comes out June 5th here D':

We're the stoneage.

[Reply #404 on:]

Is this going to be the Terminator movie where the war between man and robots starts? I've been dying to see that.

[Reply #405 on:]

The trailer looks pretty sweet. But this ain't your Grandfather's Terminator.
The success of the previous films (and series) hinged on the unimaginably destructive thing from the future juxtaposed into the normalcy of our time. This one's set in the future, so it's an entirely new formula.

[Reply #406 on:]

YES!!! FINALLY!!!

[Reply #407 on:]

the new terminator movie could be very cool. i've been wanting a terminator movie that showed more than 10 minutes of the war in the future ever since i was a kid.

i'm just not too sure about a terminator movie without arnold schwarzeneggar. he's probably the coolest part of the series, and was one of the only cool features of terminator 3 (the others being...uh... kristanna loken being nude briefly, and that's about it).

[Reply #408 on:]

*ahem*

[Reply #409 on:]

The weapons systems, while appearing visually more spectacular, also seemed a bit low-tech by comparison to later incarnations (phasers firing in bullet-like bursts instead of a solid stream) so that makes sense in terms of progression as well.

I can't help but think that was a subtle reference to "Balance of Terror".

[Reply #410 on:]

I've just seen the Star Trek movie today and I was pleased to see that boy-Kirk/sports car scene wasn't indicative of the state of vehicular technology for the time the movie was set in (see an earlier post of mine in this thread).

However, the need to start things off in an alternate reality (Kirk's familiarity with wheel-based vehicles, Human knowledge of/familiarity with Romulans, and (to my mind) advanced-looking starship designs etc) from the one the TV series was set in seemes disappointing (especially given that it was almost immediately going to be altered again, via time travel).

Also, the whole "A star going supernova threatened the (entire) galaxy (and was, presumably, going to destroy a large part of it)!" WTF!??

Sure, even on a galaxy-wide scale supernova's are pretty rare events (present day astronomers monitor a lot of galaxies in the hope of spotting a supernova 'somewhere' for them to study) but the effects (and region of danger) only extend out a few hundred light-years (if that) and then the radiation is only travelling at the speed of light, which means it would take years to reach neighbouring star systems! And any physical 'blast' or shock is travelling much slower again.

Now, at present that would still be a problem if one 'went off' near to earth (because no matter how long it takes we wouldn't know about it till the light/radiation arrived and cooked the biosphere (i.e. life). Also even if we somehow new it was coming we don't currently have a way to escape or anywhere to go.

But neither of these issues would be a problem in a world of warp-drives, sub-space communications, and massive empire/federation-wide pools of resources. Also stars have to be of a particular size and at the end of their 'life' cycle before they go supernova. Such a star would be noted and closely monitored as soon as it was discovered (i.e. circa the invention of the radio telescope, if not earlier) let alone before people were stupid enough to settle anywhere near it. Unless this was a warp-capable supernova explosion or one that popped out of nowhere right beside the planet, there's no way a large number of Romulans couldn't have been evacualted.

Further they were going to 'protect' the planet (Romulus) buy using artificially created black-holes as shields! WTF (again)? If the black-hole is 'big'/'powerful' enough to shield (i.e. absorb) the planet from a distant blast the isn't it also close enough to (eventually) suck in and consume the planet itself, not to mention playing merry-hell with the orbits of the planet's solar system (and hence the planet's climate, etc)?

Even worse, while they 'knew' that was happening and 'knew' how to deal with it, they somehow completely failed to notice that the plan they settled on wasn't going to get them there in time to actually save the planet! Genius!

And all of this is when things are probably even more advanced (and presumably more capable of dealing with emergencies of this scale) than the technology we saw in any of the TV series (witness a lowly Romulan mining ship completely out-gunning six(?) starfleet ships after having already dispatched forty-something(?) klingon ones).

Okay okay, so the plot required some phenomena capable of suddenly and unexpectedly destroying a planet deep within populated space, but did they have to choose a scenario that was/is so woefully inadequate for the job?

'just asking.

[Reply #411 on:]

Also, the whole "A star going supernova threatened the (entire) galaxy (and was, presumably, going to destroy a large part of it)!" WTF!??

Nixorbo: "SUPERNOVAE DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!  GOOD NIGHT!

Okay okay, so the plot required some phenomena capable of suddenly and unexpectedly destroying a planet deep within populated space, but did they have to choose a scenario that was/is so woefully inadequate for the job?

'just asking.

Gamma ray bursts?  Sure, Romulus would have been the only planet endangered, not "the entire galaxy," but still.

[Reply #412 on:]

However, the need to start things off in an alternate reality (Kirk's familiarity with wheel-based vehicles, Human knowledge of/familiarity with Romulans, and (to my mind) advanced-looking starship designs etc) from the one the TV series was set in seemes disappointing (especially given that it was almost immediately going to be altered again, via time travel).

Not so, the humans didn't begin to become more familiar with Rolumans until after the Kelvin received Nero's broadcast. And only after the point where the Narada appeared did the universe become an alternate reality. ("In another reality, I could have called you... Friend." [*ahem*] )

Also, the whole "A star going supernova threatened the (entire) galaxy (and was, presumably, going to destroy a large part of it)!" WTF!??

According to the comic book prequel to the film, the Hobus star (the one going to go supernova) was extremely peculiar, and due to some scientific mumbo-jumbo was exponentially increasing in strength each time another object with the mass of the planet was destroyed by it. Not literally a threat to the entire galaxy, which was stretch on the film's part, but merely several nearby systems, one of which included Romulus; and if the star were allowed to continue, eventually Federation worlds such as Vulcan and Earth.

Nero had joined forces with Spock against the will of the Romulan Senate in order to help save his homeworld; this included outfitting the Narada with Borg technology in order to assist with the mining of Decalithium, a required component for making red matter, which they would use to collapse the star into a black hole before it truly exploded. Unfortunately, they weren't fast enough, as the peculiar nature of Hobus made it go pre-nova (as it were) and the shock wave managed to destroy Romulus.

Oh, and a large number of Romulans were evacuated under order of the Praetor once the Empire finally got it through their heads what was happening. I think it was mainly the death of Nero's wife and child that put him over the edge.

And all of this is when things are probably even more advanced (and presumably more capable of dealing with emergencies of this scale) than the technology we saw in any of the TV series (witness a lowly Romulan mining ship completely out-gunning six(?) starfleet ships after having already dispatched forty-something(?) klingon ones).

Don't forget -- the Narada wasn't just a Romulan mining ship. It was a 24th century mining ship outfitted with Borg technology, thrown back in time to an extremely primitive (relatively speaking) era.

Okay okay, so the plot required some phenomena capable of suddenly and unexpectedly destroying a planet deep within populated space, but did they have to choose a scenario that was/is so woefully inadequate for the job?

Overall, I agree, although as far as I'm used to Trek, this one contains an almost neglectable amount of bad science -- and most of that can be easily dismissed. Warp-speed supernovas? I can believe anything when McCoy has an audio amplifier capable of magnifying sound to an extent of one to the fourth power!

But yes, a gamma ray burst would have been far more realistic, if less open to such special effects as the serving of planets sunny-side-up with a side of bacon and plasma.

[Reply #413 on:]

Ok, watched it today..

Big WTFs, tought i had readed the Countdown comic and was spoiled (again) about Kirks father, the fate of the USS Kelvin (cool TOS design BTW, i have talked about it before), Vulcan's fate and some other things..

So as far as i understood this is an alternate reality created , so the main timeline is still there.. that brings many questions.. for example in "First Contact" when the Borg travel back in time to prevent the humans first contact.. had they suceeded what would had happened? Wouldnt that created a paralel timeline where they would had won.. but the primary timeline where they lost in the battle of sector 001 would be intact?

One friend thinks that maybe the Borg travelled back to the primary timeline past and Spock and Nero travelled back to another "alternative universe" past.. in the comic countdown after Spock and the Narada fall into the black hole  the Enterprise-E arrives at the black hole and they remain there the same hinting that they are not altered..
Its still to much stupid and unnecesry mind-fuck to make things work isnt?

[Reply #414 on:]

Bah, alternate timelines are the lamest trick in the bad writers' handbook. Every time you sneeze, you create a dozen alternate realities in which every combination of people around you, or passing through the area in the near future, are infected with your cold, or not.

:edit: In some other universe, I didn't make this post. In another, I double-posted rather than edit this post to add this comment. And in some universe, I never found PEEL, and I'm sitting on a beach in maui getting toasted on pina coladas.

Why, oh, why don't I live in that universe?

[Reply #415 on:]

Saw it, big meh for me, not an original series guy.

Voyager remake next!

When I find out who put all these frakking mirrors on the goddamn bridge...

[Reply #416 on:]

Wouldn't TNG come before VOY, Shift?

Edit: Hold on, Mr Shift! 

Show spoiler

VOY requires Tuvok to be alive, but with Vulcan destroyed, Tuvok cannot live, and there will be no VOY.

[Reply #417 on:]

Maybe he survived!
Or maybe they find some guy to replace him: Muvok!

[Reply #418 on:]

Maybe he survived!
Or maybe they find some guy to replace him: Muvok!

He is not born by the time Star Trek (the film) takes place!

[Reply #419 on:]

Maybe his parents were among the 10k survivors.    Or maybe they'll have a different Vulcan named Kuvot'Ton.

[Reply #420 on:]

not an original series guy.

Do you also prefer the new Star Wars movies over the original trilogy, you filthy heathen?

[Reply #421 on:]

Flawed implied metaphor - TNG and DS9 were fantastic.

[Reply #422 on:]

So was the shit I took earlier, but that doesn't mean I prefer it to the food which comprised it.

[Reply #423 on:]

Do you also prefer the new Star Wars movies over the original trilogy, you filthy heathen?

What kind of butthorse question is that?

I was joking about Voyager of course (but it got old really fast, they're still going home and oh noes it's the Borg again), I used to watch it a lot, hell even TNG, but my favourite was DS9, I just loved the whole Dominion wars idea.

[Reply #424 on:]

In truth I haven't watched much in the way of next-gen-era Trek, so I probably shouldn't have said anything. I think that was a bit of snobbishness on my part, the assumption that anything 40 years old must be superior.

[Reply #425 on:]

Star Trek XII in development already?

Also, does anybody else feel like the success of the movie opening Trek to a new audience could be the push needed for a new series, either in this new universe or the original?

[Reply #426 on:]

For me only DS9 and some Ent episodes are worth existing.. TNG was mainly silly and Voyager was uterlly silly and TOS was silly beyond sillyness

[Reply #427 on:]

Voyager was cool Javier >:|

[Reply #428 on:]

 i_c_weiner Re: that article - I know I said I'd like to see this cast's Wrath of Khan, but I meant it more as a figurative thing rather than a literal remake.

Do you think this new cast would be interested in making a TV series?

[Reply #429 on:]

Voyager was cool Javier >:|

No it wasnt.


Back to blatant continuity errors...

Apart from the stardates unexcusable error (both the USS Kelvin and the Jellyfish used "new" stardates wich use the cristian year rather than the previous 6 digit system) now CGI artist claim that the Enterprise is between 600 and 800m long.. when the Constitution class was over 300m (330 the refit)

big WTF

[Reply #430 on:]

The continuity error of the Enterprise's length is excusable. Mind you that once the USS Kelvin was destroyed the entire timeline changed, so perhaps Starfleet decided to build an even larger ship in the wake of such a large attack on them. Same goes for the touch screens and other features on the Enterprise being more high tech than the Jellyfish or Nero's ship despite them being from the future. I can suspend my disbelief there due to the time alteration. However, stardates shouldn't have been affected so much.

I doubt this cast would be interested in a series, and if they were they'd only do it for a season or two at most. Some of the cast of "no names" actually are quite active in Hollywood, one that comes to mind is Simon Pegg, and I'd doubt somebody like him would want to "waste" three or four years on a new series. Additionally, Quinto may be in limbo between a big break and Heroes and I'd doubt he'd choose another television series at this point, despite it being Star Trek. It would be very, very interesting, but I doubt this cast would do a TV series. More films? Sure.

I'm happy the referenced McCoy's nickname of Bones, Archer from "Enterprise", Pike in a wheelchair, Majel Barrett as the ship's computer, Kobayashi Maru, Rura Penthe, and a redshirt being killed. Disappointed there were no Klingons though.

[Reply #431 on:]

I'm sure there'll be Klingons in the sequel if it's made. They're just too much of a fixture not to be included.

[Reply #432 on:]

The continuity error of the Enterprise's length is excusable. Mind you that once the USS Kelvin was destroyed the entire timeline changed, so perhaps Starfleet decided to build an even larger ship in the wake of such a large attack on them. Same goes for the touch screens and other features on the Enterprise being more high tech than the Jellyfish or Nero's ship despite them being from the future.

There is an explanation.. tech is different and  more advanced due to the scans that the Kelvin took on the Narada before she was destroyed, those scans were transported in the shuttles and starfleet has been studying them for 25 years

I'm sure there'll be Klingons in the sequel if it's made. They're just too much of a fixture not to be included.

There was Klingons in this movie in fact.. a whole HUGE deleted plot that probably will make it in the DVD, because it was in the first trailer..

here is:

Show spoiler

After the Kelvin rammed the Narada, the later was seriously crippled and was left drifting.. but shortly after a fleet of Klingons went by and captured the Narada and its crew.. 25 years after Nero escaped, thats the distress call from Rura Phente and thats why a fleet of Klingon warbirds went to stop them, only to loose 47 of them..

[Reply #433 on:]

Oh cool... I had heard early on about a scene of an escape from Rura Phente, but then I didn't see it in the movie and assumed it was disinformation. Would love to see an extended version on DVD.

[Reply #434 on:]

"One of the reasons we wanted to break with the original 'Star Trek' timeline was it felt restrictive," Abrams said of the plot device that could conceivably fuel the venerable series for another five decades. "The idea, now that we are in an independent timeline, allows us to use any of the ingredients from the past — or come up with brand-new ones — to make potential stories."

There's another way to avoid that "restrictive" feeling... Don't make prequels!

[Reply #435 on:]

"One of the reasons we wanted to break with the original 'Star Trek' timeline was it felt restrictive," Abrams said of the plot device that could conceivably fuel the venerable series for another five decades. "The idea, now that we are in an independent timeline, allows us to use any of the ingredients from the past — or come up with brand-new ones — to make potential stories."

There's another way to avoid that "restrictive" feeling... Don't make prequels!

Couldnt agree more..

He had to use new actors and design new ships and provoque big events, like the destruction of 2 planets and the deaths of probably a dozen billion people..
He could simply set it in the 24th century with another ship or the "next" crew of the Enterprise E (Since everyone now has moved on that could be easy).. or even move to a future Enterprise (Enterprise-F or G).

But no.. he sticked to use old TOS characters , his fault, and he messed up by himself.. i like the movie, tought im tyred of "time mess" and "alternative frak" .. even for Star Trek wich is say a lot.

I was thinkin... in Star trek IV , when Kirk travels to 1980s and steal 2 whales and take that doctor with him..(and decloaqued a warbird in front of a whale hunter, and scotty did provided the formula for clear steel in the 1980s... and so on)  wouldnt that create an alternate reality and the "original" reality earth would still be destroyed by the whale-thing probe?

And where are those time-cops we saw in Voyager and DS9?

[Reply #436 on:]

There's a difference between what happened in Star Trek IV and Trials and Tribble-ations versus what happened in Star Trek XI. In both IV and T&T, the crews went back in time but their alterations of the future were minuscule. In fact, T&T protected the timeline. In IV, the alteration wasn't noticed by anyone as the whales would've been dead anyway. However, in XI, there was a cataclysmic change in the timeline not seen in any other Trek time travel. Thus, such a change would drastically affect the universe in a way that it would be impossible to return to the "original" universe.


And I agree: they should've left TOS alone, or they could've ventured into Pike's command of the ship, or they could've looked at Enterprise-B, or gone to the future to F. But no, they wanted something cataclysmic so they could carve their own franchise.


And on the subject of "don't do prequels", it's good that they didn't entirely write off "Enterprise" though with this movie. In fact, they used it as a basis for a plot point of how Scotty found himself on a Vulcan moon. Perhaps this new franchise/universe will be a way to once again put things into chronological order in the Trek universe following "Enterprise", be able to reference it more and build off it where Universe Prime couldn't.

[Reply #437 on:]

You're all fun-hating bastards.

[Reply #438 on:]

There's another way to avoid that "restrictive" feeling... Don't make prequels!

And I agree: they should've left TOS alone

You're missing the point of the new film by a country mile. If they'd taken into account everything you're whining about, then the only people who would have gone to see it are the contributors to this thread.

I think it's pretty clear now that this new one wasn't made just for you. It was made for the rest of us too. The box office takings and general media response are proof of that.

[Reply #439 on:]

I hate to agree with Ben, but yeah, what he said ^