Thoughts on Episode 8ACV10 – All The Way Down (SPOILERS)

[on:]

OG Airdate: Sep 25th, 2023.

The crew investigates whether the universe is a simulation.

Discuss the Season 8 FINALE

[Reply #1 on:]

9/10

This is what the revival was for. The episode is the epitomé of Futurama. This isn't just a home run for David X. Cohen; he's achieved multiball. Now I'm wondering if I'm short-changing the episode by not giving it a perfect 10/10.

[Reply #2 on:]

Perfect. 10/10.

[Reply #3 on:]

I feel like every single episode this season has had a main character death fakeout, LOL

Pretty solid episode, this one felt the most like one from the original runs of the series. Vaguely reminded me of The Prisoner of Benda, or Farnsworth Parabox. It was cool to see Amy be Professor's assistant again, and the weird glitchy ending looked really cool. I bet they saved a bit of budget with the pixellated universe visuals, too, which looked cool. Didn't necessarily leave me in awe,  but it was a cool, creative idea, and I always wanna see more plots like this from Futurama. Stories that could only take place in this show's odd universe are always great. Only thing I'm left wondering is how Bender got out of the simulation - is it implied that he came from a larger simulation, yknow, "Benders all they way down"? So is the main Bender we've known since S1 now trapped in the simulation universe? Also, sorry folks saying the last episode was non canon, looks like this one just shot that down.

Also, does anyone else kind of feel like Fry is the least funny/interesting character at this point? Not sure how to articulate it without sounding too critical but now that the season's over, he really has been the "weight" of the crew. Even next to characters like Hermes or Zoidberg. I feel like aging him and Leela up a bit would do a lot to remedy this weird characterization he's been getting.

[Reply #4 on:]

Actually good. It presented an interesting sci-fi premise that thoroughly engaged me as it unraveled, raised some philosophical questions, and had a few laughs. No drawn out jokes or pacing issues to be had. Where the fuck was this show all Season?

I won’t call it a classic, but its the first Hulu episode I can say I genuinely enjoyed from start to finish, and would happily watch again.

8/10

Notes:

-I wish that last shot didn’t have to look so tweened. It made sense to animate it like that for a slow motion shot. It was still distracting to me. Good song choice at least.

-I loved those shots of the camera constantly zooming in and out between the different simulations.

-I guess the “real” Bender is in limbo/dead now, and the new one will never address their previous existence.

-Link to the ending song. https://youtu.be/9uzyVGt1AeM?si=NTBepPz7H5S4YCpL

[Reply #5 on:]

I really quite liked this. It feels like a premise that could easily serve as a season premiere during the CC run. So naturally, alot did feel kind of off during the second act. I think the first act was my favorite by far, although the rest of the episode was still quite good and I especially liked the way the third act ended. Got quite the laugh out of the professor bathroom joke. It didn't get old or overused, surprisingly. I like these kinds of episodes - that aren't so reliant on the humor.

I'll gladly give it a 8/10. Not the best of the season for me, but it's definitely at a #2 or #3 spot.

[Reply #6 on:]

Fantastic episode. Even if it took until the very end of the season, I'm glad they finally managed to put one out that fully justifies the return.

It's a classic sci-fi trope that I'm honestly shocked they never tackled until this point. And of course, they did the signature Futurama move by wrapping it up in an adorable little bow with some very sweet emotion. Bravo, DXC, bravo.

It reminds me a lot of "Free Will Hunting", in that Bender's existential crisis is the main driving force, but this episode had much more reasonable pacing (and yes, I'm aware that the pace of FWH is deliberately nutty).

Minor, but I like the way they used Amy, and her big brain. There's a very small number of episodes that actually showcase her intelligence.

It wasn't a side-splittingly hilarious episode, but that doesn't stop it from being the best of the season my a mile.

[Reply #7 on:]

Glad we finally got a great conceptual episode in there at long last.

[Reply #8 on:]

Good

• Fun visual style for the pixelated simulation -- I was worried this would be grating, but it wasn't at all
• "They're going at it like two packs of gum"
• The Professor deciding that we are probably in a simulation because of new information was great -- as well as "I'm a scientist; not a politician".
• Very effective exposition dump to convince people that we're in a simulation. I'm fully on board with the idea that we are and they didn't even use the example that initially convinced me.
• "Can you think?", "I don't think so"
• "To hell with clams"
• 10101 being Bender's aunt
• "Now the feet"
• A big, engaging storyline that's actually very mundane. It's refreshing to get this when it isn't just them going on an adventure in space. It's largely just them sitting around the office table in Planet Express.
• Some gorgeous animation and visuals in general.
• "No, him"
• "A simulation", "...within a simulation" was fantastic direction
• "At least you got to go out with dignity" followed by a face full of spaghetti
• Love the show giving the audience enough credit to put together that Bender came down from the universe "above" our one, confirming that they're in a simulation too. An unusual amount of nuance and ambiguity for a comedy cartoon

Bad

• "The mosquito is still alive", "There's a mosquito?" -- we got it
• Space Italy seemed like an odd choice after the show has already been to Earth Italy. And The Space Pope exists in Space Italy as well as regular Italy?
• The Professor acting like Space Italy is a dumb name because he had to name it, as if he had to create everything in the simulation like an artistic director might. Every other moment in the episode played it like a one to one copy of our universe
• The Professor being initially sure we're not in a simulation seemed very out of character
• The cross-section as we saw the ship drilling underground seemed like a lost opportunity for a decent gag or two. Instead, we just got callbacks to The Land Titanic and the albino humping worm
• I wasn't a huge fan of how the universe was played, at times, as being identical to "ours", with them even repeating "The Impossible Stream" at one point, but then other scenes and sequences would play out completely differently without reason to play out differently
• The episode felt rushed (which is weird as this one was a minute shorter than most Hulu episodes have been)
• We didn't see Bender experience any resistance from anyone about putting himself in the simulation, essentially leaving them forever. It felt like we needed a scene where Fry tried to make him speak and then he gave an impassioned speech about how he had nothing to live for in reality any more
• Ending seemed somewhat lacking a punch. I'm not sure Fry and Leela kissing is really enough anymore

Overall, easily the best episode of season 8. The only episode of the season that makes a real argument for the show coming back in the first place. Hopefully, it's a sign of things to come in season 9. I actually don't feel like this felt like "classic Futurama" at all -- but that's not a bad thing. It felt like a modern evolution of what Futurama is to me. It had more in line with "The Late Philip J. Fry" than the Fox run.

Anyway, 8.5/10.

[Reply #9 on:]

So is the main Bender we've known since S1 now trapped in the simulation universe?

The Bender we've known since S1 was left behind when we followed The Professor into an earlier universe in "I Know What You Did Next Xmas". And, yes, then we left him behind here and, presumably, all future episodes will feature this new Bender inhabiting the body of "our" universe 2 Bender. So we're 2 Benders removed from the original at this point.

[Reply #10 on:]

Wonderful episode. My favorite since the classic "The Late Philip J. Fry."


The formatting below may look a bit wonky, but I wanted to toss my two cents in concerning some of the things cyber_turnip didn't like about this ep:

"The mosquito is still alive", "There's a mosquito?" -- we got it

It's an old routine, but the animation and acting still got a little chuckle out of me.

Space Italy seemed like an odd choice after the show has already been to Earth Italy. And The Space Pope exists in Space Italy as well as regular Italy?

...

The Professor acting like Space Italy is a dumb name because he had to name it, as if he had to create everything in the simulation like an artistic director might.

It's a meta joke poking fun at how lazy the show's writers are at coming up with names for things. They mention "Robot Planet" as an example. They missed an opportunity by not calling the Space Pope living on Space Italy "Space Space Pope."



The Professor being initially sure we're not in a simulation seemed very out of character


Are you sure? I thought that was perfectly in character. Doesn't he say something like this in almost every episode?

I wasn't a huge fan of how the universe was played, at times, as being identical to "ours", with them even repeating "The Impossible Stream" at one point, but then other scenes and sequences would play out completely differently without reason to play out differently.

I've only watched it once, but weren't their subtle differences even in the scenes where things played out the same as the "real" universe? I may be misremembering.

We didn't see Bender experience any resistance from anyone about putting himself in the simulation, essentially leaving them forever. It felt like we needed a scene where Fry tried to make him speak and then he gave an impassioned speech about how he had nothing to live for in reality any more

I can see what you're saying on this point. Extending the goodbye scene wouldn't have hurt anything.

Ending seemed somewhat lacking a punch. I'm not sure Fry and Leela kissing is really enough anymore


It worked for me. Fry said none of the existential questions they had really mattered; he loved Leela and that was enough for him. Capping that off with what is essentially an eternal kiss due to the Professor's "underclocking" really was a nice touch, imo.

ps The audio option for the "captcha" code for signing up is no longer working. 

[Reply #11 on:]

I think that was the new season's signature episode.  I gave it a 9, was contemplating a 10.

[Reply #12 on:]

It's a classic sci-fi trope that I'm honestly shocked they never tackled until this point.

One could say it was tackled for a few seconds at the very end of "Obsoletely Fabulous".

[Reply #13 on:]

One or two of the jokes didn't quite land, but overall, easily my favourite of the season and nestles up there amongst my favourite from across the entire show. Characterisation nailed, science-y stuff was entertaining; pixel-art stuff was amusing and general humour was like a nice warm tickle. Maybe not quite as fun or adventurous as some of my other favourites, but definitely convinces me that the show still has it.

Wish we could have more on this level of quality.

9.5/10

[Reply #14 on:]

Pretty good episode, definitely the best of the season, and the first that I think might improve on rewatches for me. Pretty consistently funny with a lot of actual laugh out loud moments, and a really interesting sci-fi premise that feels like something only this show could do. It's interesting how it's fairly close to being a "bottle" episode despite the scope of the story expanding into other universes the way it does. There's interesting stuff about the ethics of AI and creating things that will become more relevant as the episode ages, too. I will say though I think they could have done more with the question of whether "our" universe" is a simulation. There's a couple tossed-off lines where someone asks the Professor and he basically turns it down, and then the admittedly interesting and ambiguous ending with Bender, but it's not really built up enough IMO. I would have liked to see more active wrestling with it throughout the course of the episode before that point, but maybe I'm missing something. I think there's a way to do this kind of philosophical stuff more directly without sacrificing any of the ambiguity, as they did all the way back with "Goodfellas." Still, very funny episode that sells the revival of this show more than of the other episodes, and maybe one of 3-4 episodes this season that actually have for me. Some pretty beautiful and creative animation, too.

Watching this episode I did also finally kind of articulate something which I think has been bugging me, which is that I'm not sure if the writers really know who Amy's character is anymore, at least comedically. All her lines in this episode and in a number of episodes this season seem to be the Professor saying some crazy thing about his invention of the week or the science stuff going on, Amy asking "uh, Professor, how does that work?" and then the Professor responding with a joke or expositional dialogue for the audience. I think they kind of wrote themselves into a corner because a lot of her old comedic bits (ditzy, slightly slutty, klutzy, self-centered) no longer read the same when she's a Ph.D. and the married mother of a teenager but I don't think they've figured out anything else to really do with her, and so to fill the weekly quotient of lines for Lauren Tom they've just turned her into the straight man for the Professor. I hope they figure out some things for her to do.

[Reply #15 on:]

I will say though I think they could have done more with the question of whether "our" universe" is a simulation. There's a couple tossed-off lines where someone asks the Professor and he basically turns it down, and then the admittedly interesting and ambiguous ending with Bender, but it's not really built up enough IMO. I would have liked to see more active wrestling with it throughout the course of the episode before that point, but maybe I'm missing something.

Unless I'm missing something, it seems clear that "our" Futurama is a simulation. That's the only way to explain Bender's resurrection and newfound knowledge. I think what you may have missed is that wrestling with the question of reality vs simulation is pointless because, ultimately, it's all we have and there's nothing to be done about it.


Or is there? If it's "Benders all the way down" how about the other direction? Is there a Bender Prime at the top who nobly sacrificed himself to deliver some bad news?

[Reply #16 on:]

8/10
Well, Cohen gave us very well designed season finale with high concept, while retaining simple and effective plot thst was nevertheless used in the service of high concept. In a way, this could never have been used as a regular episode but as a finale, it was spectacular!

[Reply #17 on:]

The Professor acting like Space Italy is a dumb name because he had to name it, as if he had to create everything in the simulation like an artistic director might.

It's a meta joke poking fun at how lazy the show's writers are at coming up with names for things. They mention "Robot Planet" as an example. They missed an opportunity by not calling the Space Pope living on Space Italy "Space Space Pope."

I understood the joke. My issue is that the premise for that joke undercuts the reality of the premise of the episode. It's similar to how Bender saying "Bite my shiny metal pixel" is world-breaking in so far as it suggests the characters are experiencing their universe in that super low-res pixelation, yet later on when their resolution is increased dramatically, they behave as if nothing has changed for them.

The Professor being initially sure we're not in a simulation seemed very out of character

Are you sure? I thought that was perfectly in character. Doesn't he say something like this in almost every episode?

Yes, I am sure. The Professor is almost always the character to jump straight to the "Why we're not even sure that we're not in a simulation, either" sort of stuff. Take "Free-Will Hunting" for instance, where he immediately jumps to the notion that humans don't even really know if they have free will or not. The notion that our universe may in fact be a simulation is not some fringe theory; it's a very well-established idea that a lot of scientists back and it seems crazy that The Professor wouldn't have heard any of the arguments in favour of it being the case until 3023, at which point he's completely convinced.

I wasn't a huge fan of how the universe was played, at times, as being identical to "ours", with them even repeating "The Impossible Stream" at one point, but then other scenes and sequences would play out completely differently without reason to play out differently.

I've only watched it once, but weren't their subtle differences even in the scenes where things played out the same as the "real" universe? I may be misremembering.

In so far as the whole thing was pixelated -- and the framing of the camera and what have you wasn't the same.

We didn't see Bender experience any resistance from anyone about putting himself in the simulation, essentially leaving them forever. It felt like we needed a scene where Fry tried to make him speak and then he gave an impassioned speech about how he had nothing to live for in reality any more

I can see what you're saying on this point. Extending the goodbye scene wouldn't have hurt anything.

Especially as this episode clocked in at 23 minutes, unlike almost the entirety of the rest of season 8 which has been 24 minutes. That extra 60 seconds could have made a world of difference to the emotional weight of the whole thing.

Ending seemed somewhat lacking a punch. I'm not sure Fry and Leela kissing is really enough anymore

It worked for me. Fry said none of the existential questions they had really mattered; he loved Leela and that was enough for him. Capping that off with what is essentially an eternal kiss due to the Professor's "underclocking" really was a nice touch, imo.

Again, I got it. I just feel like we've pretty much had a Fry and Leela kiss ending about five times now. It doesn't really have the weight it once did -- especially when the episode wasn't really about them or their relationship or their love.

[Reply #18 on:]

a lot of her old comedic bits (ditzy, slightly slutty, klutzy, self-centered) no longer read the same when she's a Ph.D. and the married mother of a teenager but I don't think they've figured out anything else to really do with her, and so to fill the weekly quotient of lines for Lauren Tom they've just turned her into the straight man for the Professor. I hope they figure out some things for her to do.

I actually love it when Amy gets to showcase her intelligence. I love it when seemingly dumb characters are actually quite smart and underestimated. It's part of what I love about Ash in the Evil Dead movies -- he presents as a total moron, but he's actually established to be fairly intelligent; just lazy, arrogant and lacking in common sense. It's more interesting to me than someone just being a moron.

Futurama's very good at this. Fry is a moron, yet he showcases a great deal of ingenuity and emotional maturity at times throughout the series that always feel completely in-character. Amy is a klutz and clearly likes to present herself as something of a bimbo, but when it comes to hard science, she's actually highly educated and there's a reason The Professor essentially made her his protege (beyond her having the same blood type as him).

[Reply #19 on:]

Is there a Bender Prime at the top who nobly sacrificed himself to deliver some bad news?

Almost certainly, yes.

[Reply #20 on:]

a lot of her old comedic bits (ditzy, slightly slutty, klutzy, self-centered) no longer read the same when she's a Ph.D. and the married mother of a teenager but I don't think they've figured out anything else to really do with her, and so to fill the weekly quotient of lines for Lauren Tom they've just turned her into the straight man for the Professor. I hope they figure out some things for her to do.

I actually love it when Amy gets to showcase her intelligence. I love it when seemingly dumb characters are actually quite smart and underestimated. It's part of what I love about Ash in the Evil Dead movies -- he presents as a total moron, but he's actually established to be fairly intelligent; just lazy, arrogant and lacking in common sense. It's more interesting to me than someone just being a moron.

Futurama's very good at this. Fry is a moron, yet he showcases a great deal of ingenuity and emotional maturity at times throughout the series that always feel completely in-character. Amy is a klutz and clearly likes to present herself as something of a bimbo, but when it comes to hard science, she's actually highly educated and there's a reason The Professor essentially made her his protege (beyond her having the same blood type as him).

That’s not really my criticism though. I never thought she was completely dumb to begin with. But right now she essentially doesn’t have a character, or at least, not any quirks that would create an obvious comedic beat for her on this comedy series. There’s certainly plenty of “this character is dumb” humor on the show; it’s more or less all they seem to be able to do with Fry anymore. I don’t necessarily need more of that. But what exactly is the comedic angle with Amy anymore? That she’s really smart and a good, caring wife and mother, and good at her job?

And it’s not like they’re even doing anything substantial with that other than the bog children episode, that’s the thing. As I said, all her dialogue now just seems to be going “hey Professor, wouldn’t this not work?” so that he can respond with a funny line or plot information. They’re just not really doing anything with her other than that. And it even feels like going backwards a little, because there’s a long legacy of sitcoms, including even the ones in the Groening fold (yes, even Futurama to some extent), making their female characters just straight men or foils for the funny male characters, having them just interjecting here and there so they can say “guys, that’s not going to work.” And previously Amy was a funny character like the rest of them, and lately….not so much. I don’t know, it’s just something I’ve noticed recently. I’m sure it’s not purposeful but it just feels like they don’t actually know what to do with her anymore. Reducing your character entirely to competent straight man is fine in some contexts, but this is ostensibly a comedy series and I don’t think they’ve given her a lot of funny (even attempting to be funny) lines this year, compared to past years.

[Reply #21 on:]

I definitely see what you mean. I think Fry's got pretty much the same problem with characterization, lately. Not much to either of them - they kind of feel like relics of the older show, in a sense

[Reply #22 on:]

I've been having a rough few days, but I just saw the episode and I'll keep this review short and sweet because a.) my focus is shot and b.) I think everyone else has pretty much already articulated what I'd like to say: this was easily the best episode of the new run (as I suspected it would be), and while I wouldn't say it hit all the high points of a "classic" Futurama episode—a few of the jokes were meh, some of the plot points and philosophical arguments felt derivative of earlier episodes—it was for the most part a smart, engaging, and sweet way to close out the season. And now that end credits song's stuck in my head, which I don't think is a bad thing. 9/10

And one additional point (since I am constitutionally incapable of making a short post, apparently) to respond to what others have said:

Unless I'm missing something, it seems clear that "our" Futurama is a simulation. That's the only way to explain Bender's resurrection and newfound knowledge.

This was my read as well, though I'd take it one step further: the Bender who returns to "our" universe is from the universe above, which is presumably also a simulation rather than the "real" universe, the point being that every universe is a simulation by some definition because the laws that govern it are by varying degrees unknowable and/or out of human control. That's basically what Fry's speech on the ship's bridge was about, right? Reality is whatever you experience it as, an affective truth rather than a temporal/scientific/whatever-else one.

Even if my interpretation is the wrong one (I am admittedly quite dumb), I agree with cyber_turnip that the relative subtlety with which this episode's point was conveyed was much appreciated. And, on the subject of subtlety, this was probably the only episode this season that managed to achieve some genuine pathos without resorting to the characters blatantly crying/breaking down onscreen (Fry saying goodbye to Bender is a great example of this, and I especially loved how the "die with dignity" line was followed by Bender slumping over into a plate of spaghetti and popping back up with meatball eyes. Probably my favorite moment of the episode). Well done, writers. More of this next season, please.

[Reply #23 on:]

Reality is whatever you experience it as, an affective truth rather than a temporal/scientific/whatever-else one.

I think your interpretation is correct.


Some pointless nonsensical ramblings/speculations below:

(Feel free to scroll on bye)

There is a problem with Fry's theory though. The Professor says that it is impossible for beings who exist in a simulation to travel "up" the chain of universes. Ok, but since the inhabitants of those universes are just part of an elaborate program, couldn't their consciousness be transferred "up" by a Professor on a higher level?  A copy of a simulated Bender's programming inserted into a robotic body in a "higher" universe would become "real" right? At least as real a the Bender of that reality.

Assuming that I'm right about that, and that there is likely a Prime Bender at the top of the chain who sacrificed himself to get the ball rolling, then Fry may be wrong. People from simulated realities could have "real" lives if their minds are elevated to that Prime reality. But only as artificial intelligences. Which leads us into some weird Phillip K. Dick territory.

[Reply #24 on:]

Best episode of the season for me, I think its a strong 8 or a weak 9, I think its probably closer to 9 so I'll vote that.

Glad they were able to recover from a very poor episode 9 to finish the season with a bang. Beautiful sequence at the end, the glitchy vector graphic animation as the simulation falls apart was really cool, great song choice too, really fitting. Felt like another perfect episode to end the show on, perhaps they should have saved it for next seasons finale in case that is the last episode.

[Reply #25 on:]

9/10

If there is one thing Futurama always seems to get right is season finales, they stuck this one perfectly.
I think I actually preferred this to Meanwhile as an ending.
It's promising that they are still capable of producing episodes like this, gives me hope for next season. Any word on when the next season is expected to drop?

Reality is whatever you experience it as, an affective truth rather than a temporal/scientific/whatever-else one.

I think your interpretation is correct.


Some pointless nonsensical ramblings/speculations below:

(Feel free to scroll on bye)

There is a problem with Fry's theory though. The Professor says that it is impossible for beings who exist in a simulation to travel "up" the chain of universes. Ok, but since the inhabitants of those universes are just part of an elaborate program, couldn't their consciousness be transferred "up" by a Professor on a higher level?  A copy of a simulated Bender's programming inserted into a robotic body in a "higher" universe would become "real" right? At least as real a the Bender of that reality.

Assuming that I'm right about that, and that there is likely a Prime Bender at the top of the chain who sacrificed himself to get the ball rolling, then Fry may be wrong. People from simulated realities could have "real" lives if their minds are elevated to that Prime reality. But only as artificial intelligences. Which leads us into some weird Phillip K. Dick territory.

In theory I guess there should be a way to transfer Bender back up but its not unreasonable that their could be some technological reason why it isn't possible. Maybe for some reason Bender's program needs to be compressed and can't be uncompressed or that once he is inserted into the simulation it's no longer possible to isolate his program and it is completely integrated with the simulation.

[Reply #26 on:]

As far as the show is currently concerned, it's impossible for a being to transfer back "up" from a simulated universe.

But if they ever decide to make an episode where The Professor tries to figure out a way to do it, you can bet it'll turn out that it isn't impossible. The same way shrinking people was off the table in "Parasites Lost" and then I guess the price of extremely tiny atoms went down for "Parasites Regained".

And, for all we know, Bender Prime had his consciousness cloned and then they put that into the simulation or something of that nature. There's a million ways you can write your way around anything if you want.

[Reply #27 on:]

As far as the show is currently concerned, it's impossible for a being to transfer back "up" from a simulated universe.

But if they ever decide to make an episode where The Professor tries to figure out a way to do it, you can bet it'll turn out that it isn't impossible. The same way shrinking people was off the table in "Parasites Lost" and then I guess the price of extremely tiny atoms went down for "Parasites Regained".

And, for all we know, Bender Prime had his consciousness cloned and then they put that into the simulation or something of that nature. There's a million ways you can write your way around anything if you want.

This thought occurred to me as well. My next thought was that uplifted beings would still "only" be artificial intelligences, like Bender. My third thought was that "uplifted" is a really odd word. I would try to downlift, but I'm afraid the Matrix would start glitching.

[Reply #28 on:]

Agreed that this was the best of the season.

Some nice jokes:
- 2nd map-joke in as many episodes
- Godzilla-sized electric bill (that seems very quotable and I would not be surprised to see it in 'what reminds you of futurama' at some future date)
- The single-pixel hynotoad
- Zoidberg's from-left-field hatred of clams
- The fire-burp that Bender gives is, I'm fairly sure, a callback to S01E01
- "sleepless nights, and glorious sleep-filled days" was relatable
- Bender as "software in a greasy wad of aluminium foil"
- The return of "lordy loo", probably my favourite three syllables in the series

Some slightly annoying bits:
- Fry was the stupid-Fry again. I prefer the foolish Fry.
- The sudden addition of a drill to the front of the ship, and the Professor's glasses apparently having a high-magnification loupe built in, were cartoonish.
-- I know the drill-bit (heh) was done before, but it's still basically cartoon physics.

For the plot,
The 'universe is a simulation' trope is a good premise.

It's worth noting that all of the objections, and refutations, that Amy and the Professor come up with near the beginning for why our universe is / is not a simulation are answered in terms of computational cost: speed of light because it takes time to figure out the effect of movement of mass; quantum randomness because too much detail takes too much effort. Yet, the computational cost problem is answered by the Professor in the final act, with his slowing-down of the simulated universe. So, given that possibility, neither the speed of light nor quantum randomness are really relevant to the question anymore.

On the question of Bender's return, it is true that - given what was stated in the episode - it is impossible for anything to return from the simulated universe. But, I don't buy that initial explanation. The assertion that once Bender alpha takes over Bender beta, Bender beta will go to Bender gamma, etc., has no real justification. It seems much more straightforward if Bender beta is simply lost. Transferring Bender alpha to Bender beta takes active work in Universe alpha, which never happens in Universe beta, so there's no good reason to think that the character-transfer from beta to gamma would happen.

At the same time, it is understood that, after the transfer, Bender alpha exists on a computer in Universe alpha. Because Bender alpha is still in Universe alpha, there's no obvious reason why it would be impossible for Bender alpha to transfer back from the computer in Universe alpha to the Bender-body in Universe alpha.

Having said all that, I do agree that the clear implication in the episode was that there was a universe above the 'real' Futurama universe.

Overall, Descartes' quote is the real answer to the question posed about existence, and it's good that it was trotted out early. It is unfortunate, though, that there was no discussion about the (as I see it) strong parallels between seeing the universe as a simulation and belief in a deity.

Did not disappoint. 8/10.
Package deliveries: 4/10.

[Reply #29 on:]

8 out of 10 is fair.   It loses points for me for not having that many jokes, and for the episode not being as emotional as it could have been, but it's a colossal improvement over the rest of the season.    Like others have said, I feel much more optimistic about the revival, if they are still capable of writing episodes like this.

For one thing, investigating if the world is a simulation or not is a much more exciting, Futuramy plot premise then.... Fry binge watches Netflix or the characters are freaking Hot Wheels cars.

[Reply #30 on:]

It's worth noting that all of the objections, and refutations, that Amy and the Professor come up with near the beginning for why our universe is / is not a simulation are answered in terms of computational cost: speed of light because it takes time to figure out the effect of movement of mass; quantum randomness because too much detail takes too much effort. Yet, the computational cost problem is answered by the Professor in the final act, with his slowing-down of the simulated universe. So, given that possibility, neither the speed of light nor quantum randomness are really relevant to the question anymore.

Surely that just means that they can't use computational cost reasoning to prove that they're not in a simulation. They can still use it to prove that they are in a simulation.

[Reply #31 on:]

BTW, there is one silly moment when Farnsworth ridicules names like a "Robot Planet", which seems to be show poking fun at itself... Did the writers completely forget they had Chapek 9 in 1ACV?

[Reply #32 on:]

It's worth noting that all of the objections, and refutations, that Amy and the Professor come up with near the beginning for why our universe is / is not a simulation are answered in terms of computational cost: speed of light because it takes time to figure out the effect of movement of mass; quantum randomness because too much detail takes too much effort. Yet, the computational cost problem is answered by the Professor in the final act, with his slowing-down of the simulated universe. So, given that possibility, neither the speed of light nor quantum randomness are really relevant to the question anymore.

Surely that just means that they can't use computational cost reasoning to prove that they're not in a simulation. They can still use it to prove that they are in a simulation.

I don't think so; computational cost stops being a constraint altogether when time-rate shifting is possible. You have no way of knowing the running speed of a simulation that contains you. Because the containing simulation could be running at any speed, it could be simulating any level of detail. Thus the level of detail doesn't tell you anything.

[Reply #33 on:]

Yes, but none of that changes the fact that if you were able to overload the universe and cause it to glitch out then you would have more or less proven that you exist in a simulation.

There's just no guarantee that you'd ever be able to make the universe glitch out in the first place because of what you said. Hence, it's possible to prove you are in a simulation using these means but it's not possible to disprove it.

[Reply #34 on:]

The glitch part was different, but it's still not a source of proof, I think. You're still left with the task of defining what a 'glitch' is: what would a breakdown of the simulation look like. But we cannot know that an effect has a particular cause until we observe the cause leading to the effect. Observing the glitch would merely be observing the effect, and we would remain ignorant about the cause. You would only be able to observe the cause-effect pair from outside the simulation, so you'd only be able to prove you were in a simulation with information from outside the simulation.

In the magnastar example, the crew conducted an experiment where evidence for their being in a simulation was an observation that the laws of physics failed. In our own universe, though, there are already examples where laws of physics do fail - black holes - yet the most we can say is that they're evidence of the incompleteness of our understanding of the universe. In their case, they may observe the laws of physics break down, but they would be unable to infer from the breakdown of the laws of physics that they were in a simulation; they'd only be able to know that their laws of physics could not explain what they saw.

[Reply #35 on:]

BTW, there is one silly moment when Farnsworth ridicules names like a "Robot Planet", which seems to be show poking fun at itself... Did the writers completely forget they had Chapek 9 in 1ACV?

I was wondering that as well, but the fact that the planet actually has a name in the first place kind of disproves that.

A very cool-sounding name, I might add. Chapek. Chapek. Chapek. I could say it all day.

[Reply #36 on:]

I like that it's a reference to the sci fi author who came up with the term robot (that's one of the many sci fi trivia bits I learned about through the show).  Chapek is a fun word to say.

[Reply #37 on:]

I first (indirectly) learned of Karel Čapek from the Batman cartoon episode "Heart of Steel."  One of the characters was named Rossum which was from Čapek's play "R.U.R."

Who says cartoons aren't eucational?

[Reply #38 on:]

I like that it's a reference to the sci fi author who came up with the term robot (that's one of the many sci fi trivia bits I learned about through the show).  Chapek is a fun word to say.

And to think it was actually not him and it was a spur of random moment... As he had problem how to call artificial humans, because he simply didn´t like his original term "labors". So his brother, while painting a wall I think said "Just call them robots..."

[Reply #39 on:]

I like that it's a reference to the sci fi author who came up with the term robot (that's one of the many sci fi trivia bits I learned about through the show).  Chapek is a fun word to say.

And to think it was actually not him and it was a spur of random moment... As he had problem how to call artificial humans, because he simply didn´t like his original term "labors". So his brother, while painting a wall I think said "Just call them robots..."

Not sure if it's generally known, but the Russian word for 'work' transliterates to 'robota', with 'worker' having the same root. That's (I always assumed) where the inspiration for the word 'robot' comes from (after some Russian conjugation, presumably...). Didn't know about the brother, though, that's neat.