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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Thread Strikes Back  (Read 23204 times)
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JoshTheater

Space Pope
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« Reply #480 on: 12-20-2015 18:21 »

That's fair. I was mostly referring to the sequences of C3P0 and R2D2 being herded by the Jawas, I find those to be very dull and dragged out, but I can see how the technology and set design being impressive for the time would make them more forgiving. Very little time is actually spent with Luke on the farm.
Jezzem

Urban Legend
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« Reply #481 on: 12-21-2015 08:49 »

Oh, there's plenty of padding in the original trilogy (like, as you pointed, when the whole movie just stops for the ewoks in episode 6), but I never remember them feeling like they went for a million years in the way I did with the prequels.
JoshTheater

Space Pope
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« Reply #482 on: 12-21-2015 16:29 »

Oh of course, I wasn't trying to compare them to the prequels. Just reinforcing that the new one is probably the most tightly paced of them all.
DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #483 on: 12-22-2015 08:06 »

The Force Awakens

An Old Hope


The characters


Technical and artistic aspects


The end

Beanoz4

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #484 on: 12-22-2015 14:09 »
« Last Edit on: 12-22-2015 14:18 »

UnrealLegend

Space Pope
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« Reply #485 on: 12-22-2015 21:58 »

I was expecting that to link to Rick Astley. Or dickbutt. Or John Cena.

How disappointing. frown
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #486 on: 12-23-2015 23:13 »

Medicore.

6/10
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #487 on: 12-24-2015 03:59 »
« Last Edit on: 12-24-2015 08:23 »


Maybe he's the good guy but the galaxy has gone bad.

[Barry White]  Hey, baby -- what's a guy like you doing in a galaxy like this?



As far as many of you being annoyed when

Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #488 on: 12-27-2015 15:50 »

I've never really been a Star Wars fan.  They were just entertaining films, I guess.  I do like the whole spare opera aspect, the grand adventure and mesmerising visuals.  And the new film delivers on those notes.  I will definitely be seeing Episode VIII.

As long as the acting is good, the characters' motivations are understandable and the plot is coherent, then I don't want to nitpick about details.

So instead, I will focus on technical details.  It was very lovely to see some actual locations again.  And a lot of different ones at that.  Costumes too were excellent too.  The real distinction between the New Order (I believe I can say that without spoiler tags), the Resistance (that too) and everyone else were apparent in their clothing alone.  Moreover, each character's costumes fitted them appropriately.


Then - of course - there is the music.  John Williams again delivers.  Reintroduction of classic themes as well as giving the new characters new themes.


But my favourite aspect of the movie was the lack of references to the prequel trilogy.  It's like Episode 1, 2 and 3 didn't happen or at least they can be ignored.  And that's good.

8/10 Will watch the next one.
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #489 on: 12-27-2015 17:27 »

First Order

FTFY
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #490 on: 12-27-2015 19:40 »
« Last Edit on: 12-27-2015 20:13 »


I've never really been a Star Wars fan.


You're a bad man, and you should feel bad.  tongue


Then - of course - there is the music.  John Williams again delivers.  Reintroduction of classic themes as well as giving the new characters new themes.



I'm also one of the few people who liked the score.  It seemed a good match to the film:  not too heavy-handed, not too subtle.

As far as


As long as the acting is good, the characters' motivations are understandable and the plot is coherent, then I don't want to nitpick about details.


A lot of people have commented negatively upon the acting of

And regarding the costumes,

The only part of the movie that broke my suspension of disbelief was

The film really could have used a few more minutes of very subtle development of a certain character to make them more believable.  Maybe those scenes existed but were cut for time and/or they seemed heavy-handed when reviewed during editing.

9/10  I loved it, but it could have been (nearly) perfect.

DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #491 on: 12-27-2015 23:13 »
« Last Edit on: 12-27-2015 23:53 »

Tachy:

Svip:
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #492 on: 12-27-2015 23:59 »

Svip:

(We are discussing the term, 'Sith', I do not feel that is a spoiler in itself.)

The term 'Sith' is more a way to describe practitioners on the Dark Side, as a comparison to Jedi.  That's OK.  Darth Vader was always referred to - and not even directly as such - a fallen Jedi in the original trilogy.  For them to call themselves Sith seem fair.  While the term was introduced in to the films in the prequels, I am not fully convinced they are themselves a prequel concept, i.e. whether some Expanded Universe had not already covered this.

The real problem Star Wars has is that Episode V remains a film in the saga.  That is a near perfect film (not in Star Wars scale, but just as films go), and they are never going to top it.

I often hard pressed to say whether I prefer 4 over 5.  Because I actually like 4 more as an adventure and as a Star Wars film in general, but 5 is just so excellent as a film... in general.  I would definitely place Episode VII in a solid third.  Definitely better than Episode VI.
DrThunder88

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« Reply #493 on: 12-28-2015 00:53 »

It's not just Dark Side users of the Force.  There were Dark Side users in the original movies, but they weren't Sith until the Sith were given a name and a nature in the prequels.  In the OT there are only two bad Jedi because there are only four Jedi left in the galaxy, two of them happen to be good.  In the prequels there must be two of them and only two of them because of the plot-convenient Sith rule.

I did have to look up the term on one of the Star Wars wikis because I got into an argument about whether or not it was one of Lucas' own ideas.  The first appearance of the word "Sith" is Phantom Menace.  Star Wars and the EU are celebrations of retconning, but I'm having a difficult time finding any indication bad Jedi were anything other than bad Jedi in any Star Wars fiction until TPM.

So if we use it to talk about bad Jedi, fine.  If a cannon character in a cannon work uses it, we really have to take it at its unfortunate cannon meaning.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
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« Reply #494 on: 12-28-2015 01:15 »

Can I just point out that hating on the prequels to the point where even using the term "Sith" is sinful is downright petty.
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #495 on: 12-28-2015 01:39 »
« Last Edit on: 12-28-2015 02:16 »

Tachy:

Yes, it is

And while digging up the first image I stumbled across that terrible scene in the newest Ep IV with the banana slug young Jabba the Hut.  I need eye bleach.  Or... the painstakingly restored version smile

Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #496 on: 12-28-2015 12:54 »

Can I just point out that hating on the prequels to the point where even using the term "Sith" is sinful is downright petty.

Can I just say that I agree?  My argument was that the usage of the term 'Sith' in Episode VII is completely acceptable.  I was merely curious whether it was a Prequel term or an EU term.  But regardless of which it is (Prequel apparently), its usage in Episode VII is fine.  For me at least.

But my point was more that the term 'Sith' is not so much associated with the Prequels as other things from the Prequels are.  Like, you know, midi-chlorians.
JoshTheater

Space Pope
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« Reply #497 on: 12-28-2015 17:06 »
« Last Edit on: 12-28-2015 17:08 »

Doesn't the movie simply being titled Episode VII acknowledge that the prequels are canon by default?
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #498 on: 12-28-2015 17:27 »

No matter how hard everyone tries, you cannot make the prequels non-canon. tongue

In other SW news, I have obtained all 5 seasons of The Clone Wars to absorb into my mind. Since that show is canon too, it feels right to catch up on it (it can't be as bad as the prequels, surely? tongue).
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #499 on: 12-28-2015 18:41 »

Doesn't the movie simply being titled Episode VII acknowledge that the prequels are canon by default?

True.  This is partly why I don't describe myself as a Star Wars fan.  Because then I don't have to after rationalise each movie, character decision, plot device and whatnot.  I run a Futurama wiki, and even that isn't trivial.  Just imagine being an editor on Wookiepedia.  Woosh.

I like the original trilogy and I like this new one.  And I don't like the prequels.  Moreover, it seems to me that - beyond the term 'Sith' - nothing from the prequels were borrowed over in this one.

DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #500 on: 12-30-2015 12:51 »

Well, I decided to go take another look at the movie, so I caught another matinee.  Despite enduring a more crowded theater than a week ago and a painfully bad Zootopia trailer, the movie itself had not lost its luster.  I had resolved to pay attention this time around to the score and to Harrison Ford's performance.

The score I kind of gave up on once I realized it was a natural fit for the film.  There were no set pieces that stood out as iconically as the OT themes, though what I will call "Adagio for Starkiller" was pretty good and very poignantly used.  I like Rey's theme as well.  It was not used as much as I think it could have been because it was subordinate to the Force Theme, almost quite literally in the lightsaber duel.  It has a great deal of potential for more dramatic arrangement as the music during the duel demonstrated.

Ford's acting still seemed a bit wooden, but this was in contrast to the many more animated characters around him.  It wasn't bad though and probably appropriate.  I remarked that Han's relationship with Rey didn't seem very real, but really it was more that it was one sided.  She more clearly thinks of him as a father figure than he thinks of her as a daughter figure.  That made her reaction at the bridge more appropriate and sympathetic.  I still think the bridge scene was the weakest part of Ford's performance.  That scene itself is fantastic in every other way though, and I'd rather have it be underplayed than risk overdoing it.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #501 on: 01-01-2016 16:26 »

George Lucas is not pleased with the new movie.  By the way, that interview is hilarious.  Lucas compares his selling of the rights to the Star Wars franchise, as selling his children to white slave owners.

The man is so incredibly out of touch, it's mind-boggling.
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #502 on: 01-01-2016 18:37 »


Lucas can go cram his stupid midi-Chlorians up his Jar-Jar for all I care.

He should pay for "Phantom Edit" re-edits of Eps II and III out of his own pocket as down-payment on his penance for smothering the life out of his own creation in such a horrible manner.

UnrealLegend

Space Pope
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« Reply #503 on: 01-01-2016 21:20 »

It's like poetry. It rhymes.
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #504 on: 01-01-2016 21:21 »

It's so dense. Every single image has so many things going on.
Beanoz4

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #505 on: 01-02-2016 16:58 »

Speaking of the Phantom Edits, there's a newer edit of the prequels known as "Anti-Cheese Edits" and they're rather good, taking away things that are generally eye-roll worthy. My favourite thing about them is that the aliens speak in an alien language, taking away the terrible Asian stereotypes in the Phantom Menace, and reducing the annoying noises out of Jar Jar's mouth, as well as reducing his role drastically. They'e on YouTube for anyone interested.

A list of all the things that didn't make the final cut of the Anti Cheese editions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJG50U2YZhE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XBjE3b228
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #506 on: 01-02-2016 18:29 »
« Last Edit on: 01-02-2016 18:32 »


Thanks so much!  It took days to d/l the DeSpecialized edition of Ep IV (and it's excellent, btw) and I've been somewhat reluctant to finish watching the original trilogy because that would lead me back... to the prequels.  Just reviewing that one scene in Ep III as LeiaPadme77 suggested left me feeling like


when Palpatine mentioned the M-word.  I'm not certain I could survive M-word + Jar-Jar + Bantha crap.  Hopefully the Anti-Cheese Edits will reduce the pain to a tolerable level.

bankrupt

Urban Legend
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« Reply #507 on: 01-02-2016 22:38 »

The story that underpins The Force Awakens is a lazy (purposeful) rehash of A New Hope, but the film is quite entertaining in spite of this. It it tightly paced, looks great, and has some humor to it.  I enjoyed all the new characters introduced here and I'm looking forward to see what is done with them in the future films. That is more than I can say about any of the characters in the prequels. I give it a 7/10 after one viewing.

Those anti-cheese edition videos were a nice reminder of how bad Episode I & II are without having to rewatch them. Thanks for the link!
JoshTheater

Space Pope
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« Reply #508 on: 01-02-2016 23:41 »
« Last Edit on: 01-02-2016 23:45 »

It took you days, Tachyon? Did you try to find one that was between 2-4GB or did you download one of the huge >10GB ones?

I downloaded one with all three of the Despecialized movies, each about 3GBs, and that took only a couple hours. They do indeed look awesome.
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #509 on: 01-03-2016 02:12 »


It took you days, Tachyon? Did you try to find one that was between 2-4GB or did you download one of the huge >10GB ones?


I'm watching on a nice 55-inch, and I plan to go much larger in the future.  The main reason it took days is because I manually selected each segment, due to me not having a CAPTCHA bot.  The final Ep IV file was [* Tachy looks...] 19.2GB.  And it was Fucking AwesomeTM. smile

Colour me not surprised that Lucas ignored DeSpecialized as he had commented before that he didn't care what fans did with his story or films, so long as they didn't charge for it.  I am a little surprised with the Evil Mouse Empire staying hands-off, though.

I'm going to watch Eps V and VI tonight and tomorrow, and will noodle around for the Anti Cheese.

Would you like me to rip some 32kbit mp3s of To Pimp A Butterfly for you, to save you download time?


JoshTheater

Space Pope
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« Reply #510 on: 01-03-2016 20:23 »
« Last Edit on: 01-03-2016 21:03 »

Segments? Captcha? Are you saying you direct downloaded 19GB worth of files from a download website instead of just torrenting it all at once from any one of the major torrent websites that it's available on in a variety of file sizes? I'm sorry to hear that, Tachy!

Also, obviously you're joking, but I imagine the differences between audio and video compression would make for an interesting discussion. I'm not particularly well-versed in the technical details of either process, but from what I understand the loss from audio compression is exponentially more noticeable than video compression the smaller you get, proportionally that is (so for example, the difference between a well-compressed 5GB video file and a 10GB one is going to be less noticeable to the human eye on a home-sized screen than the difference between a 50MB and 100MB audio file would be to the human ear through normal quality headphones). That said, I've still been known to listen to very compressed audio files in lieu of giant lossless ones that won't allow me to fit a lot of music on my listening device.

Generally I keep movie files I get between 3 and 4 GB so they will fit on a standard external drive. I've watched countless movies in that file size in 720 or 1080p on a >40" TV that looked great, at least as good if not far better than the quality on my HD cable or streaming on Netflix.
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #511 on: 01-03-2016 21:37 »


The only torrent site I found it on was invite-only.  Regarding audio compression, There is a huge difference between, say, 96k and 160k.  If I have limited space, I'll make due with fewer files, though of higher quality.

One reason I wanted the much larger DeSpecialized file was to get the 5.1 DTS-HD-MA soundtrack along with the excellent video.  Doing A/B tests on my TV between the DVD and blu-ray versions of Episode I (yes, it's cheesy but the source is high-quality and they were carefully mastered), the DVD video looks fine, but the blu-ray is clearly superior.

DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #512 on: 01-05-2016 18:59 »

More reference to the prequels being canon, taken from The Force Awakens visual dictionary:

"Phasma’s armour is coated in salvaged chromium from a Naboo yacht once owned by Emperor Palpatine. Its polished finish helps reflect harmful radiation, but it serves primarily as a symbol of past power."
DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #513 on: 01-05-2016 23:11 »

First of all, that or any Star Wars book doesn't matter.  Only the movies matter.  Second, I didn't say the prequels weren't canon, just that they are bad canon.  Ignoring them is the best course of action, and incorporating bad ideas, regardless of the source, is a bad idea.

Incidentally, I discovered "Lord of the Sith" appears in the transcript of Star Wars: The Adventures of Luke Starkiller as taken from the “Journal of the Whills”, but it also "Sith" seems to appear in other early writings as some sort of pirate or Imperial Pinkerton.  Whether either of these instances were contemporaneous with car salesman C3P0 or amphibious Han Solo is irrelevant, however, given my previously stated dogma that things not in the movies don't matter.
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #514 on: 01-10-2016 04:06 »


Speaking of the Phantom Edits, there's a newer edit of the prequels known as "Anti-Cheese Edits"


I watched the Anti-Cheese edit of Episode I, and it was excellent.  Nearly all of the things about Ep I that grated against my nerves were removed, without negatively impacting the story.  It was *fun* to watch!

I imagine that the one annoying piece of cheese (to me) left in was because it is an element supporting the storyline.

It will be most interesting to see how he managed to remove the M-word reference in Palpatine's heart-to-heart talk with Anakin in Ep III, but I am absolutely watching the other two anti-cheese edits!  Probably after I finish watching the ep V and ep VI DeSpecialized editions.

* Tachy  is a happy boy



I would put this in the Funny Pictures thread with heavy spoiler warnings, but surely some poor virgin would find a way to view it accidentally and curse my name for the rest of eternity (Along with all of the other people who are cursing my name for all eternity).

So I'll put it here.  Super-duper spoiler for the end of The Force Awakens!  Do not look. May cause cancer.

OK, th people who have already watched Force Awakens can look, now.  It gave me a chuckle.


DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #515 on: 01-10-2016 08:48 »

Speaking of spoiler related pictures, this added a bit of depth to what I had previously attributed to the inaccuracy of Chewy's bow.
Zed 85

Space Pope
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« Reply #516 on: 01-12-2016 19:10 »

So I saw the film again the other day and I thought I might enjoy it less, because the awe would wear off, or I would know where it was going... Nope. Enjoyed it just as much as the first time. Say whatever you will, the film (to me) completely succeeds in making me want to watch it again and again. I've come away from watching certain films thinking "wow, that might have been the very best film I've ever seen in my life" and not felt any real desire to watch them ever again.

The one thing that did change the second time through was that I did appreciate the music a little more and I've warmed to it. I think basically I was spoilt by several of the trailers that featured such stirring music that having other music seemed out of place. The trailer music worked very well to make the images appear beautiful - and the images remained there in the film, but the music seemed less so - partly because it has to fit a whole-narrative score, not a hotchpotch of shots. Ah well.

Rey's Theme is definitely building on me. I initially thought the score was devoid of any memorable themes but I was wrong.

On the subject of the trailer music - the one used for the Comic Con promo, which of course is not by John Williams at all, is from In The Shadow of the Moon, just in case anybody hasn't been aware of this for the last 6 months or so... Just to say though, In The Shadow of the Moon is extremely worth watching, if folk haven't done so yet. smile
Tachyon

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #517 on: 01-12-2016 20:33 »


I've not seen it a second time, yet, But Leiapadme77 saw it again and commented on the voices she heard while watching

I'm too much of a cheapskate to pay for another theatre ticket, so I'll just suck it up and wait for the blu-ray.  Hopefully it will come out before Episode VIII is released tongue

Zed 85

Space Pope
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« Reply #518 on: 01-12-2016 21:24 »

About that.

There are websites out there detailing all the celebrity cameos, which makes a second viewing quite adventurous. As for one example:

And on the subject of cameos and denials.

Another thought strikes me about Snoke and why I'm disappointed that he's CGI.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
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« Reply #519 on: 01-12-2016 21:52 »

Regarding Snoke:

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