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Author Topic: Thoughts on 6ACV07 - The late Philip J. Fry - SPOILERS  (Read 41354 times)
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PEE Poll: Rating
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Total Voters: 201

FistfulOAwesome

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #200 on: 07-31-2010 11:32 »

The Late Philip J. Fry is freaking brilliant because it's like having your brain smashed by a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick. I've spent hours (hell, nearly the entire day) since viewing it trying to take in all the brilliance that managed to be squeezed into 22 minutes, and I still haven't finished! I have so many conflicting thoughts (and you nice guys managed to add more) about what this episode is trying to say about the nature of the universe (if it's even anything specific (I wouldn't doubt the writers to have written it so as to have many plausible theories rather than a spelled out one)) that it's very nearly making me go bonkers. I love that! Just like I love this episode!

Holy hell, where to actually start? The episode is easily among the tightest Futurama has ever produced. Nothing in the episode was "throw-away". Every single joke, plot point, line, ect. was played to its fullest and never felt like it was there to stretch the running time. It's rare to see a piece of entertainment where you can say nothing (or close enough to nothing) was wasted, but I definitely bestow this honor onto The Late Philip J. Fry.

All the jokes fit perfectly in place. They are breezy (none overstay their welcome (not even the statue of liberty gags)) and accomplish their tasks. Every reference is app (the Angler Shrimp having a Merfolk as its "worm, the Maybe-A-Slug Statue), every beat in tune (the reactions of the 10,000 A.D. residents to being insulted, the "Gazoo" race being killed by the Dumblocks five years later), even the characters are totally acting spot-on (Leela transitioning her Hi-ya! from anger to crying is one of my favorite parts). The comedy of this episode is so on that I'll be quoting entire bits of it for years.

The forward time travel is definitely a good subversion of time travel stories that isn't used enough in Sci-Fi (at least popular Sci-Fi). Not many time travel stories take advantage of trips to the future, so it's nice to see Futurama raise the bar on that and show how it's done. Many of the futures shown are great parodies of classic alternate-world tropes, and some were just plain silly, and leave it to Futurama to make all plausible and all funny. I especially love that what could have been a cotton candy plot (good, but unfulfilling) is grounded and given purpose by a real desire by our travelers to get home. It gives it an epic feeling that is especially impressive considering that was achieved with a running time of less than half-an-hour (ah, montages! You'll never grow old!).

The story of the separation of Fry and Leela by time is beautifully devastating and wonderfully sweet. It's simultaneously heartbreaking and heartwarming. A chance, a slip, is what separated them and stole the lives they wanted, and yet, it was needed to show the audience and the characters how much she and him need each other. The entire sequence showing the creation of her message and Fry's reaction to it is incredible and unforgettable (maybe even more than the universe's deaths and rebirths). Truly, a grasp on who these characters are has been fully achieved and expanded masterfully. Thankfully, the episode ends on a good note that doesn't nullify what came before it. The Futurama-verse is reborn twice and Leela with it. Third time is the charm and Leela finally doesn't have to lose Fry and live without him on the third run. Some are worried about whether the Leela of the third run (and the entire universe) is really "our" Leela. I say that if Fry believes she's Leela and she believes she's Leela, then she is, and that's all that really matters.

I could talk about The Late Philip J. Fry for days and never tire of all the fantastic ideas and moments the episode has delivered. It's quite simply Futurama's finest work.
Futuristic-ATR

Crustacean
*
« Reply #201 on: 07-31-2010 12:26 »

Great episode, note A, points 10/10, stars 5/5 !! Could be my favourite episode but I have to watch it again in my language. The story was amazing and thats what I love on Futurama. Not many gags, but those which were in the episode are funny as hell (for example: Hitler or "come again in five years" and then they were killed by the primitives)...whoohoo my first post here but whoohoo cares?
wowbagger

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #202 on: 07-31-2010 13:43 »

Very well written FistfulOAwesome, you expressed many of my thoughts on the episode which I was too lazy to post smile

Also welcome Futuristic-ATR, for a first post that's an excellent quote smile
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #203 on: 07-31-2010 17:59 »

I watched it again. It gets a 10/10 from me. I'll probably continue thinking how  awesome this episode is while I'm at my boring work today.
samborek

Poppler
*
« Reply #204 on: 07-31-2010 18:05 »

Very inspiring episode , best ever in my opinion big grin i watched it 2 times so far  and I'm wondering does anyone know the song title  after Fry did read message  from Leela in the Future ? which also  continues  when they are watching Enf of The Universe ? This music is  great  big grin
bankrupt

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #205 on: 07-31-2010 18:08 »

Surprise, but this was my favorite episode of the new run.  When I saw the ads for the new episode I was a little worried because time travel is such a worn plot.  The writers did it though, they used time travel in a new, Futurama way that was fun.

There were a lot of good lines in this episode as well.  My favorite being Fry's "That was the old Fry.  He's dead now!"
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #206 on: 07-31-2010 18:35 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 18:41 »

The more I think about it, the more I end up thinking more about the time-traveling plotholes. For example, in many old-time time-travel stories, we see somebody travel to the past and accidentally kill something, but then end up disappearing or returning to a distopian future from that death. Bender did kill the legged fish the first time around, and Farnsworth killed what is the most influential man of the 20th century. Yet, it still had no impact on the events in the future.
We barely saw any of that future though. For all we know, the future was drastically different in that universe, but it all got reset again when they overshot and had to take the time-machine around again.

Quote
It seems like the writers could have used that opportunity to show a drastically different 3000 so then Farnsworth would have to go another cycle again to return the present to the state of which they left it instead of utilizing the gag that Farnsworth looses control and causes the time machine to flux forward again.
I preferred it that way. Distopian 'presents' due to changing the past have been done to death. The way they had to do something so monumentally huge in scope for some tiny little blunder was funny in my opinion.

Quote
This lesson does not apply to "Bender's Big Score". "Bender's Big Score" destroyed everything we love. Even though the episode practically references the movie twice, I find that I do not consider the events canon.
You can't just pick and choose what is canon. You're living in denial. I know you hate Bender's Big Score, but it didn't destroy anything -certainly not on the scale that this episode did. If you're okay with Seymour living happily ever after, after all (in what could very well be a different timeline), how are you okay with Fry moving on to someone that isn't Leela, is just identical to her in absolutely every way?

I think on the Infosphere page, it's mentioned that the time machine does seem to jolt up and to the side at one point (I'd have to watch closely myself to see if that's true), which would explain why it ends up above the other version of the crew...
Did you miss the Professor's line about this new universe being about 10 feet lower than their one?

Quote
and I like to think that it follows the time travel rules established in BBS, where the crew below them are "time clones" that are, in fact, doomed.  So, the machine HAD to end up above them somehow and crush them to "fix" the paradox as always.
1. Why would it? That was a paradox correcting time-code, there's no mention of that whatsoever.

2. There's no way it could have done because you can't generate paradoxes by travelling forwards in time. You can only get them from travelling backwards.

Quote
Also, assuming the machine really does "jolt" out of place, then it leads the Professor to think that it's actually an alternate universe, when it's really just the same one (albeit looped around) as others have suggested....which also allows the writers to cause huge debates, and then quell and/or fuel those debates on the eventual audio commentary.  Pretty awesome, but in any case, I like to go with the "same universe but looped back around" theory.

Why? Generally speaking, if the Professor says something, that's what happened -unless it's pointed out that he's wrong later. It makes far more sense that another big bang happened and the universe was identical because it was started in the exact same way and that this keeps on happening than time simply loops. There's a scientific theory that basically says if you could know absolutely EVERYTHING about the universe at any one given point, you could use it to predict absolutely anything about the future with 100% accuracy which is basically what this concept plays into. There's another theory to do with anomolies within this that would explain why the new universe was 10 feet lower.

Now, with this in mind, the cyclical nature of time in the Futuramaverse strongly implies that whilst there's a little "wiggle room", the timeline is more or less fixed. By the end of time, the only thing that's left is the past, and so everything that has happened, has happened. If something is changed during one cycle, it won't have a drastic effect on anything else, because everything else that it effects has already happened, and would need to be manually altered to fit. So if Farnsworth kills Hitler, somebody else will step into his role, and WWII will play out as before.
Time wasn't cyclical. They just entered a new, identical universe each time. If time was cyclical, it would be the equivalent of when Pac Man left one side of the screen and reappeared on the other side. What was happening here was the equivalent of Pac Man leaving off the side of one screen and appearing in another identical Pac Man screen. It makes sense that if the big bang has the exact same conditions each time to start with, that the universe it generates will be moreorless the same each time. Even down to human behaviour and so forth because everything that gets people to behave in the way that they do would be the same each time around.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #207 on: 07-31-2010 19:05 »

Cyclical vs "new universe": eh...sounds like tomato/tom-ah-to to me. There's no functional difference.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #208 on: 07-31-2010 19:15 »

Now, with this in mind, the cyclical nature of time in the Futuramaverse strongly implies that whilst there's a little "wiggle room", the timeline is more or less fixed. By the end of time, the only thing that's left is the past, and so everything that has happened, has happened. If something is changed during one cycle, it won't have a drastic effect on anything else, because everything else that it effects has already happened, and would need to be manually altered to fit. So if Farnsworth kills Hitler, somebody else will step into his role, and WWII will play out as before.
Time wasn't cyclical. They just entered a new, identical universe each time. If time was cyclical, it would be the equivalent of when Pac Man left one side of the screen and reappeared on the other side. What was happening here was the equivalent of Pac Man leaving off the side of one screen and appearing in another identical Pac Man screen. It makes sense that if the big bang has the exact same conditions each time to start with, that the universe it generates will be moreorless the same each time. Even down to human behaviour and so forth because everything that gets people to behave in the way that they do would be the same each time around.

If time was not cyclical, then the new universe would be different, since Fry, Bender, and Farnsworth were observing it (therefore changing it on the deepest possible level). Furthermore, since the time machine was composed of mass that had originally been part of the universe, the "new" universe would be shy several billion atoms, which would have an effect. Instead, time is cyclical in the Futuramaverse, as evidenced by the fact that the "new" universe is identical. Therefore Fry, Bender, and Farnsworth had always been present at the big bang, the mass of the universe is conserved, and the whole thing makes sense, rather than having holes in it that you could park a Buick through.

You say it makes far more sense for a second big bang and a new universe to occur... I say it's the only thing that ties the lot together if time cycles through in a loop.

Think about this. Since space and time are fundamentally connected, and you can't have space without matter to define it, and the last proton had decayed, space and time had both ceased to exist at the point where the last proton bought the farm (the time machine being outside of space and time as an essential part of its function can be disregarded as existing in a pocket of its own reality). Therefore time has an end. Time has a beginning, with the big bang. If spacetime is curved, the two ends will curve around until they meet each other, forming a loop, or cycle.

Yeah, it's pseudoscience and technobabble, but there's nothing essentially wrong with it, and it's the sort of thing the Professor would say. Pac man re-appears on the other side of the same screen. There's only one screen.

Don't make me start producing terrible MSPaint diagrams to show how this works.
Cyclical vs "new universe": eh...sounds like tomato/tom-ah-to to me. There's no functional difference.

True, there is no actual difference that makes a difference to living in that universe, but it makes a very real metaphysical difference.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #209 on: 07-31-2010 19:15 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 19:21 »

There's an absolutely gigantic different.

If time is cyclical, they're back in their original universe. There would be no duplications of themselves providing that they arrived after they'd left. They'd be with the original Leela and so on and all that time we saw in the future without Fry and the Professor would never have existed.

If it's a newly created universe then it means that they're not back with their old friends, they're back with exact duplicates of them which raises a lot of philosophical questions. It also means that there would be duplicates of themselves (that they accidentally killed avoiding any major problems from a writing stand-point). It also means that they have a reason not to use the time-machine willy nilly to go back in time by doing a full lap because each time they do, they'll be saying goodbye to the real world that they live in for an exact clone and they'll have to kill their doubles to avoid any problems. This way also means that paradoxes can't happen.


Quote
If time was not cyclical, then the new universe would be different, since Fry, Bender, and Farnsworth were observing it (therefore changing it on the deepest possible level).
It was different, it was 10 feet lower.
Quote
Furthermore, since the time machine was composed of mass that had originally been part of the universe, the "new" universe would be shy several billion atoms, which would have an effect.
Whilst this is absolutely true, I think you're just out-nerding the writers.
Quote
Instead, time is cyclical in the Futuramaverse, as evidenced by the fact that the "new" universe is identical.
It isn't identical, it's 10 feet lower.

My main problem with it being cyclical time is that if it was there was absolutely NO reason for the writers to have them kill their time doubles because all it does is create a paradox, and not a nice little amusing paradox like the time-code one -a paradox that absolutely destroys any sense of anything unless you're going by paradox-correcting time-code, which they weren't. I'm 99% certain that regardless of the science involved, the writers didn't intend it to be cyclical time. Firstly, the Professor's dialogue when they enter the new universe suggests it's another, identical universe. Secondly, the fact that they bothered to kill Fry, the Professor and Bender's duplicates. Hopefully the DVD commentary will shed some light on this.
speedracer
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #210 on: 07-31-2010 19:29 »

Time clearly isn't cyclical in the Futurama universe; it's just really, really, really, really deterministic and almost completely immune to chaotic phenomena at any scale (except if the writers decide otherwise in a future episode).
Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #211 on: 07-31-2010 19:30 »

Was anyone else hoping to see a restaurant during the end of the universe?
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #212 on: 07-31-2010 19:42 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 19:43 by totalnerduk »

There's an absolutely gigantic different.

If time is cyclical, they're back in their original universe. There would be no duplications of themselves providing that they arrived after they'd left.

But they didn't "arrive" after they'd "left". They arrived beforehand, killing their past selves.
They'd be with the original Leela and so on and all that time we saw in the future without Fry and the Professor would never have existed.

But it did exist. It does exist. Within an open loop. Had they not killed the originals, then it wouldn't, since the whole thing would (from the point of view of any observer) simply consist of the time machine "arriving", then the originals "departing". No time without Fry, Bender and Farnsworth would pass.

As things stand, the time without them passed, and they squished themselves before they could depart and cause that to happen. But had they not departed already, they could not squish themselves, and so they must have departed. Were this a seperate and new universe, squishing themselves would not be a paradox. However, the self-squishing stops the episode from simply not having happened, by stopping the events within that loop from happening. Yet they happened, meaning that the loop is not closed. Since the loop is not closed, the paradox is free to exist, and to be corrected.

Since we know that paradoxes can happen, do happen (BBS) and are corrected (BBS), we must assume that the paradox indicates a cyclical model of time, rather than an endless series of universes (which would indicate that there should be an endless parade of "arriving" time machines squishing the Professor, Fry and Bender, for the rest of time in "this" universe, for a start).
Time clearly isn't cyclical in the Futurama universe; it's just really, really, really, really deterministic and almost completely immune to chaotic phenomena at any scale (except if the writers decide otherwise in a future episode).

"Clearly", huh? roll eyes I guess you must be right. After all, you said "clearly".[/sarcasm]

Was anyone else hoping to see a restaurant during the end of the universe?

I hoped briefly. Thought maybe we'd catch a glimpse of it, or perhaps hear the Professor make a reference... thought that perhaps the Time Turbines that stabilise it might even provide the key to getting back, for a second. Alas, it was not to be.

As for the time machine being now ten feet higher, that's not what I meant by "identical". It's functionally identical due to every particle having taken the same path (where not interfered with). The height difference is just a funny way to take care of the fact that they've arrived before they left, and need to keep the "loop" open by causing a paradox (also, they need to take care of those pesky time duplicates).

Hopefully the DVD commentary will shed some light on this.

They'll probably leave the question open so as to infuriate people.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #213 on: 07-31-2010 19:42 »

I'm a little torn on this episode.  The story was fantastic.  It was as sweet, humorous, and as touching as any of the best futurama episodes.  Somehow I just cant get past the idea that the original Leela- the one that we've been following since the beginning of the series - died old and lonely.  The writers went out of their way in BBS to make sure that the original copies of the characters were the ones that survived until the end.  I wonder why they didn't do that this time? 
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #214 on: 07-31-2010 19:50 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 19:54 »

I'm not sure if I understand why it's a paradox if Fry-3/Bener-3/Professor-3 don't get killed. If they lived, they'd travel to universe 4 (and then 5)...so what?

Quote
True, there is no actual difference that makes a difference to living in that universe, but it makes a very real metaphysical difference.

True dat. But that's what I'm saying. To those living in the universe, there's no real difference. To Fry, Leela-3 is the same as Leela-1. To Leela-3, Fry-1 is the same as Fry-3. They aren't clones, they aren't robot doubles...they are exactly the same.

And from a writing standpoint, there's not much difference. When the episode's premise was announced, most people here thought "how do they get back to 3000? Is time cyclical? If they just keep going forward long enough, will they get back to where they were?" and it turns out that speculation was correct, even if the explanation is "new universe" instead of "time literally starts over".

It's like if scientists found out that "time" doesn't exist, and each moment is one universe that is destroyed and replaced by a duplicate universe that exists for just another moment before being destroyed and replaced again. Ok, maybe it's "metaphysically" different, but to you and me there is no difference. We still perceive things moment by moment and remember the past just like we always have. It's just six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Now that I think about it, the only real difference in having a new universe instead of cyclical time is that they were free to kill off Fry-3/Bender-3/Professor-3 without worrying about a time paradox. (Although I still don't see how killing them fixes any kind of time paradox.)
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #215 on: 07-31-2010 19:53 »

I'm not sure if I understand why it's a paradox if Fry-3/Bener-3/Professor-3 don't get killed. If they lived, they'd travel to universe 4 (and then 5)...so what?

It's not. They need a paradox to occur to stop a closed loop forming.
speedracer
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #216 on: 07-31-2010 19:54 »

Time clearly isn't cyclical in the Futurama universe; it's just really, really, really, really deterministic and almost completely immune to chaotic phenomena at any scale (except if the writers decide otherwise in a future episode).

"Clearly", huh? roll eyes I guess you must be right. After all, you said "clearly".[/sarcasm]


If time is cyclical, do Farnsworth, Fry and Bender travel in a time machine in some previous iteration of the universe?
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #217 on: 07-31-2010 19:55 »

There's really only the one iteration, repeated endlessly, so it happens in every "iteration".
speedracer
Bending Unit
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« Reply #218 on: 07-31-2010 19:56 »

There's really only the one iteration, repeated endlessly, so it happens in every "iteration".

Then why weren't the Fry, Farnsworth and Bender we see in the beginning of the episode crushed from above?
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #219 on: 07-31-2010 19:59 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 20:02 »

^ The Professor's time machine must have existed an infinite number of times previously, and will exist an infinite number of times from now forward. They weren't crushed in this episode because only every other universe ends with them being crushed. Refer to JoshTheater's mspaint thing. (Fry-1 skips Universe 2 and crushes Fry-3. Fry-2 skips Universe 3 and crushes Fry-4. Then we presumably start all over again in Universe 5.)

Also, SoylentOrange: there are an infinite number of universes. In some universes, Leela is lonely and in some universes Leela and Fry live together happily. I think it's splitting hairs to think about which one is the "real" Leela. After all, what if every episode that's already aired takes place in Universe 3? Maybe The Late Philip J Fry was the only episode that, for whatever reason, took place in Universe 1 and showed all of the time travel craziness so that we could see how he travelld to the "real" universe, Universe 3. I hope that makes sense.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #220 on: 07-31-2010 20:00 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 20:02 by totalnerduk »

There's really only the one iteration, repeated endlessly, so it happens in every "iteration".

Then why weren't the Fry, Farnsworth and Bender we see in the beginning of the episode crushed from above?

Each time that time cycles, it plays out differently depending on the interferences from the previous cycle, meaning that with the time machine, the travellers can change things. Without it, things happen as they happen, with the previous cycle being unable to interfere with the current one, without something to physically carry travellers (or something else) through the ending and the beginning.
^ Yes. They would have to. The Professor's time machine must have existed an infinite number of times previously, and will exist an infinite number of times from now forward.

It only exists the once, but across time rather than within it.

They weren't crushed in this episode because only every other universe ends with them being crushed. Refer to JoshTheater's mspaint thing.

No. It is wrong. Cyclical time.
PazuzuJr

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #221 on: 07-31-2010 20:05 »

First - i love the remove vote option. First i clicked 9, but immediatly felt horribly guilty and had to change it to a 10!
This is the first episode of the new series which i actually loved to pieces big grin
I finally felt like Futurama was back afte being left disappointed at the end of the previous episodes.
It had very funny moments - from Bender's "don't wake up Fry!" to the various times they visited. And none of them seemed forced like they did in other eps this series.
But at the same time, it had a cute character story which is what made me fall in love with Futurama.... Fry just generally being an adorable loser chasing after leela. On that level, this ep is up there with Parasites lost and the farnsworth paradox among others!
And of course, the time travel! It was completly confusing, hurt's your head to think about it stuff.... but that's what made it great big grin
Yay, futurama's back big grin
ShepherdofShark

Space Pope
****
« Reply #222 on: 07-31-2010 20:05 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 20:06 »

Then why weren't the Fry, Farnsworth and Bender we see in the beginning of the episode crushed from above?

Because they took the first trip into the future.

Put it this way for shippers: The first Fry is now dating the third Leela. It's all linear, linear I tell you!

(Yet strangely cyclical).
speedracer
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #223 on: 07-31-2010 20:06 »

There's really only the one iteration, repeated endlessly, so it happens in every "iteration".

Then why weren't the Fry, Farnsworth and Bender we see in the beginning of the episode crushed from above?

Each time that time cycles, it plays out differently depending on the interferences from the previous cycle, meaning that with the time machine, the travellers can change things. Without it, things happen as they happen, with the previous cycle being unable to interfere with the current one, without something to physically carry travellers (or something else) through the ending and the beginning.
^ Yes. They would have to. The Professor's time machine must have existed an infinite number of times previously, and will exist an infinite number of times from now forward.

It only exists the once, but across time rather than within it.

If you allow this much variation in cycles, then the distinction you draw between cyclical time and linear time is really a distinction without a difference.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #224 on: 07-31-2010 20:09 »

No practical difference, I admit. But as I said before, it's a metaphysical difference.

Then why weren't the Fry, Farnsworth and Bender we see in the beginning of the episode crushed from above?

Because they took the first trip into the future.

Put it this way for shippers: The first Fry is now dating the third Leela. It's all linear, linear I tell you!

(Yet strangely cyclical).

Linear, but curved around so that it joins up at the beginning and end. A large enough circle appears as a straight line!
FemJesse

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #225 on: 07-31-2010 20:16 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 20:22 »

I think its only Paradoxical if you take into account that since time is established to be cyclical, the future is the past. In this way you can cause a paradox by traveling into the future (which is also the past.)

The paradox corrected itself by squishing the "copies" JUST LIKE in BBS, but it was left to chance which ones were considered the "copies." Seems very simple to me.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand.

OR maybe I just missed the point and its not time that's cyclical but events? Will somebody help me out here? iheartdestr0y is making fun of me again..
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #226 on: 07-31-2010 20:22 »

Linear, but curved around so that it joins up at the beginning and end. A large enough circle appears as a straight line!

It's essentially the same as the theory that if you travel in a straight line long enough you'll eventually end up back where you started.
Nibblonian Leader

Urban Legend
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« Reply #227 on: 07-31-2010 20:24 »

"Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it". I don't know if this has any ligitimacy with this conversation, but it's a cool quote. Well, this also means that events may be cyclical, and therefore time, but only if we choose so.
Nibblonian Leader

Urban Legend
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« Reply #228 on: 07-31-2010 20:24 »

Linear, but curved around so that it joins up at the beginning and end. A large enough circle appears as a straight line!

It's essentially the same as the theory that if you travel in a straight line long enough you'll eventually end up back where you started.
The Pac-Man Theory.
speedracer
Bending Unit
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« Reply #229 on: 07-31-2010 20:25 »

I think its only Paradoxical if you take into account that since time is established to be cyclical, the future is the past. In this way you can cause a paradox by traveling into the future (which is also the past.)

The paradox corrected itself by squishing the "copies" JUST LIKE in BBS, but it was left to chance which ones were considered the "copies." Seems very simple to me.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand.

OR maybe I just missed the point and its not time that's cyclical but events? Will somebody help me out here? iheartdestr0y is making fun of me again..

In the version of the cyclical theory of time presented here, Fry, Farnsworth and Bender are allowed to keep their knowledge from the previous cycle of the universe (otherwise they wouldn't have known when to stop the time machine, Fry wouldn't have the memories of missing his date/seeing Leela's message/etc), so the previous characters can't be completely isomorphic to the current ones.
Frisco17

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« Reply #230 on: 07-31-2010 20:26 »

"Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it". I don't know if this has any ligitimacy with this conversation, but it's a cool quote. Well, this also means that events may be cyclical, and therefore time, but only if we choose so.

That phrase is actually meant more as a warning that if you don't study the past you are doomed to repeat it's mistakes rather than having anything to do with space and time.
FemJesse

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #231 on: 07-31-2010 20:33 »

His argument was "That if time were cyclical they wouldn't be sitting there in outer space being able to watch it all, because they would have reset"

but to use a Kaku-esque metaphor, if time is a baseball and an ant crawls onto the baseball, the baseball is the same, still round, just with an ant on it. In this case Fry, Bender and the Professor are the ant and time is still the baseball. My theory is that they somehow "broke out of time" when time traveling to wind up where they were, and can be evidenced by the "new universe" being 10 feet lower than the old one.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #232 on: 07-31-2010 20:35 »

Yeah, the machine has to exist outside of time to travel forwards. So they're outside of time, looking in.
iheartdestr0y

Delivery Boy
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« Reply #233 on: 07-31-2010 20:38 »

Everything repeats itself, it doesn't literally start over. Hell, Fry could go back to the year 1999 (well, the third timeline's year 1999) and shoot himself in the head without any paradox now, since it's a future version of himself that he'd be killing.
FemJesse

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #234 on: 07-31-2010 20:44 »

It would cause an alternate series of events to occur in that universe, but unless that series of the events can stop the decaying of the last proton, they are going to wind up starting over again under the same conditions. Its self-correcting.
iheartdestr0y

Delivery Boy
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« Reply #235 on: 07-31-2010 20:50 »

Farnsworth says, "A second big bang!", not "That big bang that created us!"
FemJesse

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #236 on: 07-31-2010 20:52 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2010 20:58 »

Farnsworth is stupid. We established this in "The Duh-Vinci Code"

Also he needs the Globetrotters to do all his physics for him.
speedracer
Bending Unit
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« Reply #237 on: 07-31-2010 21:14 »

I'm a little torn on this episode.  The story was fantastic.  It was as sweet, humorous, and as touching as any of the best futurama episodes.  Somehow I just cant get past the idea that the original Leela- the one that we've been following since the beginning of the series - died old and lonely.  The writers went out of their way in BBS to make sure that the original copies of the characters were the ones that survived until the end.  I wonder why they didn't do that this time?  

Not sure at all what you can do with the old Leela here.  At least she died knowing that Fry was faithful to her.

The Fry that survives is more experienced, has the memory of Leela's love letter seared in his mind and can infer that the old Leela died alone, so he knows that what he and Leela share is precious and that he'd better hold on to it.  Works for me.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #238 on: 07-31-2010 21:33 »

Everything repeats itself, it doesn't literally start over. Hell, Fry could go back to the year 1999 (well, the third timeline's year 1999) and shoot himself in the head without any paradox now, since it's a future version of himself that he'd be killing.

No, no no. Just no. That's a terrible interpretation, and you should feel terrible.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #239 on: 07-31-2010 21:35 »

Very pleased with this episode, it's exactly the kind of Futurama I'd been missing and wanted more of. Great concept, well told, good jokes (Elzar's "Bam" brought a smile to my face), good pacing, interesting climax and resolution. Some really good animation and design, good use of characters, felt fresh but still felt like Futurama. A bit of emotion, but not forced and not too self aware of that fact. I did think afterwards they'd managed to go back in time before, but no matter. This is the first episode of the new run I'd happily put alongside the original run, in fact even above some of the original run.

Solid ep, and although not my favourite ever, I'm giving it a 10 because I'm so happy eps like this are still possible!...
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