900 Going On 11th Incarnation - Doctor Who

[Reply #720 on:]

I don't see it?

Here.

ALSO, TOTP RAGE EVERYONE.

GUESS WHEN SEASON 7 OF DOCTOR WHO IS ON? SPRING 2012? EASTER 2012?

GUESS AGAIN, AUTUMN 2012, THEN A BREAK, THEN IT'S BACK IN 2013.



More info here.

[Reply #721 on:]

I don't see it?

Here.

Yes but look at mine compared to yours..
Mine has info on charictars and the episode
Yours is about the episode..

ALSO, TOTP RAGE EVERYONE.

GUESS WHEN SEASON 7 OF DOCTOR WHO IS ON? SPRING 2012? EASTER 2012?

GUESS AGAIN, AUTUMN 2012, THEN A BREAK, THEN IT'S BACK IN 2013.



More info here.

I kinda guessed that ages ago..
It means the 2013 will be 'Year of Who'

[Reply #722 on:]

ALSO, TOTP RAGE EVERYONE.

GUESS WHEN SEASON 7 OF DOCTOR WHO IS ON? SPRING 2012? EASTER 2012?

GUESS AGAIN, AUTUMN 2012, THEN A BREAK, THEN IT'S BACK IN 2013.

More info here.

I knew they'd be doing this. Considering the 50th Anniversary of the show is coming up, they've got a lot of work to do to make it epic.

I'd already heard that they were going to do one or two specials in 2012 but keep the big stuff for year 50, so the fact that we're getting a full half series is something, at least.

[Reply #723 on:]

It better be worth the wait. Multi-Doctors and MORE.

[Reply #724 on:]

Go out and get a life. Then it'll be here before you know it.

[Reply #725 on:]

I'm 14...

[Reply #726 on:]

Not a bad episode. A little bit of a rushed, trite, cliched resolution. But meh, it's only the James Cordon episode. I hope that this isn't going to become a once-a-series thing.

[Reply #727 on:]

Was okay, not as good as The Lodger. Next week's looks EPIC.

[Reply #728 on:]

I thought it was okay.. I was expecting more from the cybermen to be honest

Prequel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5jfLakwuls&feature=player_embedded#!

Next weeks thoughts (it's in spoilers because some people don't watch the trailers)

Show spoiler

Roman emperor Winston Churchill gets a cup of tea from a silurian


A broken dalek talks to the Doctor



and Charles Dickens ruturns..

AND..


So Amy, Rory AND River return!
Going to be a busy episode!

[Reply #729 on:]

I thought it was okay.. I was expecting more from the cybermen to be honest

So was I.

And that prequel thingy confused me.

Not a bad episode. A little bit of a rushed, trite, cliched resolution. But meh, it's only the James Cordon episode. I hope that this isn't going to become a once-a-series thing.

So am. I loved the Lodger but this episode wasn't as good.

I kinda want it to be next week now. Stupid cliff hangers.

[Reply #730 on:]

Were we dealing with proper Cybermen here? As in not the "parallel-universe-but-totally-different-origin" ones from the RTD era?

If we were, it would have been nice to have had some sort of subtle suggestion that the ship had been there for 65 million years. And if you don't know why that would be a good idea, you need to watch more Doctor Who.

Show spoiler

I've made myself sad. Poor Adric  

[Reply #731 on:]

Were we dealing with proper Cybermen here? As in not the "parallel-universe-but-totally-different-origin" ones from the RTD era?

I had that impression myself. I think that the RTD cybermen from the parallel earth are gone now. Their catchphrase was something about being upgraded and deleting people... their M.O. for conversion (which they called upgrade) was also different, and they didn't use CyberMats.

These guys used CyberMats, said "YOU WILL BE LIKE US", and were about to put Craig through the original conversion process. I think they were the real deal, all the way from Mondas.

The Doctor did say that the ship had been there a long time, presumably from before the RTD era's Cyber Invasion, and we've seen Cyberships in space in "A Good Man Goes to War". Cyberships weren't something the parallel Cybermen got far enough to make. They were in the initial stages of converting Earth, and never really got very far before they were sucked into the Void with the Daleks from the Time Lord prison.

I think that we're seeing original Cybermen from this point, and that the ones made by Cybus Industries were a temporary aberration. I noticed that the Cybus Industries logo was absent on at least one Cyberman in the episode as well. So these guys may well have been relics from Mondas - and there was a different design to at least one of the heads that reminded me of the "classic" Cybermen. They might even be hybrids at this point, cobbled together from parts left behind by Cybus Industries as well as "original" parts.

Either way, Cybermen are one of the most iconic antagonists that the Doctor has faced, and as long as they come back at some point, I don't care if they're RTD's Cybus Industries Cybermen or the ones entombed on Telos, or the original Cybermen from Mondas.

It's much the same with the Daleks, as far as I'm concerned. If they pop up as villains, I'm not too fussed which version they are. Original Daleks, RTD Daleks, or Moffat Daleks. They're all little green blobs in bonded polycarbide armour, and a formidable foe for the Doctor and his companions to triumph over for our entertainment.

[Reply #732 on:]

I'm much happier to have the old boys back, as the "delete" catchphrase was a bit lame (especially when they the were fighting the Daleks where its true lameness was made obvious in comparison to "exterminate").

I like the idea that they might have used Cybus cast-offs to rebuild themselves as long as the ship is part of the original lot. I always felt cheated by the complete reboot that RTD fobbed us off with (so I don't agree with you about not caring which ones we're dealing with - for me it is all important), and thankfully your response has cemented my hopes into total fact which no retcon can ever shake - CYBERMEN ARE TRULY BACK! FINALLY!

[Reply #733 on:]

I'm much happier to have the old boys back, as the "delete" catchphrase was a bit lame (especially when they the were fighting the Daleks where its true lameness was made obvious in comparison to "exterminate").

I was very happy to hear the return of the old catchphrase. "YOU WILL BE LIKE US" was always much more chilling in its finality than "YOU WILL BE DELETED".

I like the idea that they might have used Cybus cast-offs to rebuild themselves as long as the ship is part of the original lot. I always felt cheated by the complete reboot that RTD fobbed us off with (so I don't agree with you about not caring which ones we're dealing with - for me it is all important)

I felt cheated by much of RTD's tenure as showrunner to be honest. But I did think that perhaps Lumic and Cybus built their Cybermen having had access to something like the classic Cyberman head that was visible in Statton's "Vault" (the episode that returned the Daleks to us). Perhaps they took that tech, and reverse-engineered it to form the parallel Cybermen. Then when the Cybermen showed up in our reality, their tech would be backwards-compatible with the original gear engineered on Mondas.

Maybe.

It's possible the two variants could be reconciled like that at some point.

[Reply #734 on:]

An interesting point from SFX who saw a private screening of episode 13.

Show spoiler

The denouement is bound to cause some debate. If you like the episode, you’ll be able to rationalise it, but if you don’t you’ll be going, “But hang on, in that episode…?” But that’s Doctor Who fandom

[Reply #735 on:]

I enjoyed the episode with Craig. It was a little silly at times, and cliché as hell but... meh, it set up the last episode very nicely, with some good acting overall. I loved all the scenes where Matt was acknowledging that tomorrow would be the day he died at Lake Silencio, and then seeing Madame Kovarian again in all her evilness.

She really is foul.

Some fairly funny one liners and a feel good vibe taking us into what's probably going to be an emotional end to the series. I'm looking forward to it.

[Reply #736 on:]

I also read that even though

Show spoiler

many questions are answered, new questions are asked.

Ugh it's getting old now, what happened to the Doctor who used to land in a random place and time and go on an adventure with no arc?

Yes, there was Bad Wolf and Torchwood, but they were subtle. Not like HE'S GONNA DIE, SILENCE, TARDIS BLOWS UP, FOOTPRINTS OUTSIDE AMY'S HOUSE, GANGERS, MELODY, WHO'S RIVER in your face crap.

Quote myself: what happened to the Doctor who used to land in a random place

Yes, I see what I did there.

[Reply #737 on:]

The Doctor had to disassemble the randomiser in The Leisure Hive.

[Reply #738 on:]

That only explains a short stint in the TB years. Prior to that it was just ineptitude/bad equipment. And in the very early years the finger is squarely pointed at the ship, not the Doctor, then it gets a bit hazy.

[Reply #739 on:]

I am firmly aware of this.

[Reply #740 on:]

If we were, it would have been nice to have had some sort of subtle suggestion that the ship had been there for 65 million years. And if you don't know why that would be a good idea, you need to watch more Doctor Who.

Show spoiler

I've made myself sad. Poor Adric 

That was my first thought. I was seriously like this ship better be from 65mya My friend was throughly confused when I said that. Note to self make friend watch Earthshock

I don't mind how they are doing the show now. I really like the arcs. Though the random adventures are always fun. The show is pretty much brilliant either way.

I think I should watch some original stuff now.

[Reply #741 on:]

I am firmly aware of this.

It was more for Danny, really.

[Reply #742 on:]

A message from the good Doctor

[Reply #743 on:]

I knew it was only a matter of time before he found that.

[Reply #744 on:]

When the time comes, I believe we should use the unPEEL thread name. It deserves full PEEL status.

[Reply #745 on:]

Craig should have died.

The writers apparently want us to believe that at no point during any of the previous encounters with the Cybermen, when humans were being scooped up and converted in droves, did anyone lament for their loved ones. No fathers feared for their sons, no wives longed for their husbands. Brothers didn't worry about sisters, grammas didn't give a toss about that nice boy down the lane who always shovels the walk when it gets snowy. Nobody ever felt sufficient emotion - be it love, fear, anger, or anything else - to create the feedback loop that saved Craig's life. Not once.

Yeah, I ain't buying it, either.

If there has been any bright spot in this otherwise uneven season, it has been the ongoing question of whether the Doctor is a savior or a menace. Looked at from one perspective, he's a superhero, a Space Gandalf coming in to save the day when no-one else can. But examined in a different light, he's a narcissist whose need to rescue people has become so overpowering that he actually puts them in the very situations from which they need to be rescued.

Killing Craig - while his baby cries in the distance, no less - would also underscore another theme that the show has toyed with this season: that the Doctor, alone in the universe, is a destroyer of families. Amy's baby, Melody, was taken from her specifically so that she could be turned into a weapon to destroy the Doctor. In "Closing Time," there was the opportunity to create the other side of that equation; rather than the baby becoming the weapon, the father would.

It would be a particularly grim ending for an otherwise doofy episode, but if we're really meant to be questioning the Doctor's true role in the universe - as its unwitting destroyer or its ultimate salvation - then let's go there. We, like the companions constantly put in harm's way, follow the Doctor unreservedly and trust him implicitly. We're confident he'll save the day because that's what he always does. This season wants us to question that trust, to really examine the man that we love so dearly and ask if things would be better if he just minded his own bloody business. If Craig ended up a Cyberman simply because he followed the Doctor's advice to "believe in himself," we might pause to think about how casually our beloved Time Lord messes with people's lives. And given that the Doctor travels so much in time, just picture what a meeting between the Doctor and a grown-up Alfie might've been like, should the boy ever learn the truth about his father's disappearance.

I was thinking the exact same things at that part of the episode.

[Reply #746 on:]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/sep/28/doctor-who-confidential-axed

Confidential just got axed ..

I don't really care to be honest

[Reply #747 on:]

I only watched like 2 eps of Confidential. Oh well.

Maybe they could put all the behind-the-scenes stuff on the DVDs in future? Or still make entire eps of DWC just for the DVDs.

[Reply #748 on:]

How the hell do they call that cost-cutting? The show must be so fucking cheap to make! They follow people that they already have on set around with a camera that they also already have on set, and interview the writer, the actors, and the director. All of whom are already on set, and are being paid for by the show that's being filmed.

DWC is essentially free to produce. How is cutting it going to save any fucking money?

[Reply #749 on:]

How the hell do they call that cost-cutting? The show must be so fucking cheap to make! They follow people that they already have on set around with a camera that they also already have on set, and interview the writer, the actors, and the director. All of whom are already on set, and are being paid for by the show that's being filmed.

DWC is essentially free to produce. How is cutting it going to save any fucking money?

Compared to the real series I'm sure it's quite cheap, but "essentially free" is seriously overstating the case. Regardless, when looking at the total Dr. Who  budget pie, however small, obviously the Confidential slice can be comfortably tossed without worries, so of course it's gonna be cut as part of the 20%.

[Reply #750 on:]

Eh, I'd rather keep Confidential and just get rid of some of the glitzy special effects. You can write good stories that tug at viewers' hearts without CGI effects. I mean, they were able to do it like that before 2005.

[Reply #751 on:]

Your point is valid, but "you can make a good show without big special effects" is not the same as "a show with big special effects would be every bit as good without them." This coming from a guy who owns the old BBC 2 adaptation of H2G2 on DVD, so it's not like I am biased against low-budget scifi. But cheer up, I'm sure confidential was far, far short of 20% of the total budget, so you'll probably get your wish too and see less of those glitzy special effects too.

Apparently our opinions are distinct and different. It's almost as though we were two different people.

[Reply #752 on:]

Exactly.

[Reply #753 on:]

Exactly.

stop following me around the interweb. it's creepy.

[Reply #754 on:]

Knew it! (both the question and how he cheated death)

[Reply #755 on:]

Wow! Epic to the max. I really thought it'd be his Ganger, but I was wrong.

Also, nitpick:

So 5 Army guys with Machine Guns can't kill 2 of the Silence, but Amy on her own can kill 3 of the Silence with a machine gun.

Oooo, and another one (but not by me): How did the Tesselecta start to regenerate?!

[Reply #756 on:]

And the Doctor can fool time itself by wearing a disguise? Not buying that for a second.

So when is River going to learn his name?

[Reply #757 on:]

Hrm, I was wrong about my suspicions of the question initially, but I got there in the end, and the minute I saw that they'd brought back the Tesselecta I knew what was going to happen.

The Tesselecta can be explained by saying that they found some way to mimic the regen process, so it would look... realistic to the people who were viewing it - i.e. Amy and Rory. The Doctor was actually inside the Tesselecta when it was destroyed so I think that was the explanation for that one... I dunno.

River could learn his name at any point in their relationship. Any point at all.

The only thing that bothers me is that since he died and time was fixed, his past self didn't need to come to the future to then fix things, so everything that happened with the silence in the first episode...

Argh, timey wimey...

Either way, I was more than happy with this episode. It was amazingly acted, Amy was bearable, Rory was awesome and lovely, and the relationship with River and the Doctor remains completely amazing, as always.

[Reply #758 on:]

And the Doctor can fool time itself by wearing a disguise? Not buying that for a second.

I'm not sure that time WAS fooled. All that happened was that time stopped for a while when River drained the suit's power supply to stop herself from doing something that was actually fixed.... time didn't like that, and threwa hissy-fit. Once River and the Tessadoctor finished it off, there was nothing else left to stop time resuming along its normal course. Quite a decent wrapup to that part of the arc, I feel.

[Reply #759 on:]

It may be a cop-out but perhaps the explanation was that the fixed point in time is merely that the Doctor is seen to die; sounds weak I know but then I guess it could be like the whole tree falling in a wood, does an occurrence that has no one to  witness it still become an event? Does history exist if there's nobody around to tell it?

But then we still have River trying to defy the Doctor's plans, which buggers everything up.
That said, the warnings about the Fall of the Eleventh (which I assume will sadly mean the departure of Matt Smith, whenever that comes) seems to have that "destiny" feel to it, again implying that it is a fixed point in time, and the Silence's efforts to stop this would likely bugger up time again. Shame on them!
[/ramble]

Anyway, yes, great finale again. There just do seem to be a few plotholes that appear in SM's grand episodes, some "yeah, but"s. Otherwise, the entire season has been really quite excellent, IMO