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Author Topic: It's back... in "Pog" form: The Simpsons, Season 15 (part 2)  (Read 7033 times)
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J.P. Diddy Wow

Bending Unit
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« Reply #640 on: 03-24-2004 15:09 »

Wasn't Comic Book Guy going out with Skinner's mom too. Wow, the Simpsons is becoming a soup opera.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #641 on: 03-24-2004 15:15 »

And then Matt pulls a shotgun from under his shirt AND KILLS THEM ALL!
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #642 on: 03-24-2004 15:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
well anyway heres the queue for everyone to complain about what a shoddy guest apperance this is and to complain about how the simpsons relies on guest stars to boost its ratings.     wink     roll eyes

Wasn't Jim Brooks in an episode as well, or was the Simpsons Archive just BSing?
Mercapto

Professor
*
« Reply #643 on: 03-24-2004 15:44 »
« Last Edit on: 03-24-2004 15:44 »

We never BS.  tongue

He was indeed in "A Star is Born-Again".
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #644 on: 03-24-2004 16:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by J.P. Diddy Wow:
Wow, the Simpsons is becoming a soup opera.
mmm... soup.

Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #645 on: 03-24-2004 16:32 »

Forget it, leelaholic. It's a soup opera, and we all know how much you hate that.  tongue
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #646 on: 03-24-2004 18:49 »

Well it doesn't sound particulary soup operaish to me. Orignially  I was worried it would be much more soup opera style plot because of the wedding theme it seemed potentialy like a crazy wedding where something would happen (do do do do) which would be a Soup Opera plot.
Since its not a music opera Leelaholic wont hate it, unless the episodes bad.
(be fair Leelaholic has been critical of a few episodes this season.)
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #647 on: 03-24-2004 19:07 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by J.P. Diddy Wow:
Wasn't Comic Book Guy going out with Skinner's mom too. Wow, the Simpsons is becoming a soup opera.


Although it is true that Agnes Skinner and The Comic Book Guy were dating in season 12's "Worst Episode Ever" they soon broke up, and that hardly makes it a soap opera, in my opinion. I actually think that the episode itself was well done, and gave us a chance to get to see CBG in a new light.

But, I do think that the upcoming episode "My Big Fat Geek Wedding" will involve Edna Krabappel getting into a relationship with CBG. This will probably not be as good of a relationship as CBG and Skinner was, seeing as how there is really no reason or rhyme as to why they would be involved. But, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

J.P. Diddy Wow

Bending Unit
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« Reply #648 on: 03-24-2004 19:32 »

um. I was actually just joking about the soap opera thing, but oh well.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #649 on: 03-24-2004 20:21 »

Well, I do over-analyze things...
SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
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« Reply #650 on: 03-25-2004 02:55 »
« Last Edit on: 03-26-2004 00:00 »

Just saw the one where Homer gets an ambulance and Marge writes a book. Can't remember anything funny, which isn't a good sign...

Edit: WAIT! I remember a funny thing now! That absolutely terrifying eye thing! EEP!
J.P. Diddy Wow

Bending Unit
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« Reply #651 on: 03-25-2004 15:12 »

Oh, I like that one, "Swim, swim, swim thought the whale"
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #652 on: 03-25-2004 15:32 »

Ah yes. That was the best Marge-centric episode in a while. But considering the competition... ("Pokey Mom," "Marge vs. etc..." ). No really, it was a pretty good ep.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #653 on: 03-25-2004 20:43 »

I agree. "Diatribe of a Mad Housewife" was good. I usually don't enjoy Marge-themed episodes (mostly because she became unbarable during Scull's reign, and is still recovering), but she seemed like a real character who you might actually be able to sympathize with in this one.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #654 on: 03-25-2004 23:42 »

To be fair, there's been some good Homer and Marge themed episodes in recent seasons (most notably "Half Decent Proposal" and "Three Gays of the Condo" ) and I also happen to think "Sweets and Sour Marge" was a good show.

But yeah, best mostly purely Marge episode in a while.

There's another one coming up (almost definetely a holdover into next season) that seems to revolve around cooking in some form, given the title of "All's Fair in Oven War".  No summary yet though.
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #655 on: 03-26-2004 09:33 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
And then Matt pulls a shotgun from under his shirt AND KILLS THEM ALL!
No. Just you.  tongue
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #656 on: 03-26-2004 14:39 »

Actually DTB I thought Three Gays was pretty poor it felt so contrived, I'm suprised you would like it.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #657 on: 03-26-2004 14:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by leelaholic:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
And then Matt pulls a shotgun from under his shirt AND KILLS THEM ALL!
No. Just you.   tongue
Shut up, Nerd.

Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #658 on: 03-26-2004 15:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
Actually DTB I thought Three Gays was pretty poor it felt so contrived, I'm suprised you would like it.

DTB has some surprising tastes though. I never expected him to like "Bender Should Not Be Allowed On Television", for example.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #659 on: 03-26-2004 17:10 »

There are some contrived elements of "Three Gays of the Condo" I will admit, particularly the guest appearance, but it is nonetheless a generally funny episode and I think there is some genuinely very good storytelling and emotional aspects as well.  The two flashbacks for instance are both very well done.

BSNBAOTV was certainly a very strange episode but I thought it was very good.  Humor was consistantly great for one thing, but it also offers another interesting take on issues of censorship (some people saw it as one big piss take on Fox, which I don't think is the case despite some scenes where network behavior in general is satirized) and even with some good satirizing of each side of the issue.  It wasn't very fresh in concept/satire (censorship issues have been done many many times before, including on The Simpsons) but nonetheless is a pretty clever take on the subject.
EvilLunch

Professor
*
« Reply #660 on: 03-26-2004 17:34 »

I loved Three Gays in a Condo and though I wished Homer wasn't so cold to the nice boy who kissed him I know it was true to his cowardly character so I'm glad he did it.. Anyhow, one of my favorite episodes was Itchy and Scratchy and Marge, the one about censorship[more about cartoon/'art' than TV networks]. I think it handled the message very well and I wish more episodes had a real comment or point in that vein. I know it's not necessarily a good thing to be able to summarize an episode subject succintly, lest one think a show is simple. But being focused has its merits.
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #661 on: 03-26-2004 17:34 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 It wasn't very fresh in concept/satire (censorship issues have been done many many times before, including on The Simpsons) but nonetheless is a pretty clever take on the subject.

I actually didn't think it was that clever, what with Bender's blatant jerking around on TV and the Professor and Hermes' equally blatant protesting, it was so smack-you-over-the-head obvious that I narrowly avoided being beaten into a coma by the plot. By the time Dwight Conrad blurts out "TV gave us the idea!", it becomes apparent that Futurama has hit new levels of unsubtlety.  no no

 Thank Calculon for the network execu-bots is all I can say: the three most intelligent jokes in the episode.  smile
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #662 on: 03-26-2004 21:07 »

but even the execu-bots stink of blantant fox parodying. Anyway argue if you will that there is more to the satire, The episode was painfully unfunny the vast majority of the jokes in the episode just make me cringe.

As for three gays well it was allright but I didn't think much of the flashbacks and the emotion. Just because they do something that had been missing throughout the Scully era doesn't actually make it good.
I'm not a huge fan of emotion unless its actually well developed and It does actually connect with me in some way. I guess its just my sarcastic cynical british way, or maybe it you sentimental yanks. but it didn't work here I guess its partly being sick of Homer and Marge relationship fights
and for that matter conflicts within the family. (I wasn't a fan of 'the dad who knew too little' either although it was slightly better) The reason being they've been done so much that for them to actually be belivable you have to pretty much pretend previous episodes haven't happend I mean they've stood together through much bigger fights I just dont buy that Homer would react the way he does to something so petty after all they've been through. Same with Lisa in  'The dad who knew too little.'
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #663 on: 03-26-2004 21:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Mouse On Venus:
 I actually didn't think it was that clever, what with Bender's blatant jerking around on TV and the Professor and Hermes' equally blatant protesting, it was so smack-you-over-the-head obvious that I narrowly avoided being beaten into a coma by the plot. By the time Dwight Conrad blurts out "TV gave us the idea!", it becomes apparent that Futurama has hit new levels of unsubtlety.   no no

I have to agree.  BSNBAOTV includes many of the poorest aspects of Futurama.  I wouldn't be surprised if FOX wanted this to be the final episode so that we'd go away thinking how bad it was.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #664 on: 03-27-2004 00:50 »

Well I agree that BSNBAOTV is in some ways rather blatant and "loud".  However, to be honest I think that was just typical of all Futurama satires ("Godfellas" being the sole exception really).  It always had more of a "loud" and perhaps "in-your-face" quality to it then the earliest Simpsons episodes.  Not just with satires either, but in general; the humor style itself just seemed less "laid back" then The Simpsons.  This is all excluding Scully shows and even certain other ones (like pretty much all of season five) of course.

However, for what its worth I think BSNBAOTV is still a worthy satire.  Blatant as parts of it were (although it still seems to have gone over many viewers' heads, mainly the ones that think it was one big Fox joke and didn't seem to get that it wasn't even directly Fox related), it offers some nice insights and does them in a creative way.  Particularly telling for me are the scenes near the end where Bender himself joins the protesters, as it points out several things.  One is that many of these protesters will, by and large, not start complaining until the supposedly entertainment influenced behavior specifically affects them (in this case, Bender's own apparent influence causes him to be robbed).  And that the people who create the entertainment will similarly be biased and simply wont agree with the protesters' viewpoints until it affects them as well.  Its not only brilliantly done here, but is in fact done in a way only Futurama could have done it; in any show that lacks a robot(and a robot mind) protaganist, this episode's way of displaying the hypocrisies and problems with both sides of the debate would come off as too nonsensical.

Ironic that I'm on a Futurama board, in a Simpsons thread, and posting a very lengthy post about Futurama when I should logically be posting this sort of thing in one of the Futurama sections.  I guess its a similarly nonsensical paradox.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #665 on: 03-27-2004 07:36 »

Damnit you made my head explode.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #666 on: 03-27-2004 09:55 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
To be fair, there's been some good Homer and Marge themed episodes in recent seasons (most notably "Half Decent Proposal" and "Three Gays of the Condo" ) and I also happen to think "Sweets and Sour Marge" was a good show.


All in all, there have probably been only 3 or 4 quality Homer/Marge episodes since about season 12. I mean "good" as in the plot is interesting and sometimes compelling, Homer isn't Captain Wacky, and Marge isn't an unbarable 2-dimensional cliche of herself. My ratings for what I consider "quality":


"Jaws Wired Shut"-I'm not sure what others thought of this episode, but I thought it was one of the better season 13 episodes. Homer was actually a likable character, and Marge was okay too. I thought that the whole plot of Homer becoming a considerate husband and father was actually well-done. I give it an A.


"The Frying Game"-I consider it a Homer/Marge episode, but I'm not sure if that's really the right catergory for it. I think that this one actually did a good job of showing how much Homer loves Marge, particularly when he gets Marge off the hook with the cops so only he gets the death penalty. I thought that it was one of the sweeter things that Homer had done for Marge since the start of the Scully-era. I think that it's an A-/A episode.


"Three Gays of the Condo"-What can I say? A great episode. I liked the idea of communicating some of the story through flashbacks, something we haven't seen in a while. When you look at it, one of the better season 14 episodes and a great Homer/Marge one, too. An A ep.


Like I said, there were probably 3 good Homer and Marge stories. Of course there's always season 13's "Half Decent Proposal", but what I reviewed above are my top three.     

sheep555

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #667 on: 03-27-2004 10:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
but even the execu-bots stink of blantant fox parodying.

No, they don't - they stink of blatant TV parodying. All TV execs are like that, not just Fox...and I've sat in on production meetings at Granada, and can tell you the executives really are as portrayed.

DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #668 on: 03-27-2004 22:23 »

Yeah, it was just general executive satire, not Fox satire.  They didn't make any specific references to Fox in the whole episode.
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #669 on: 03-28-2004 12:15 »
« Last Edit on: 03-28-2004 12:15 »

No, although in the commentary, DXC does say "Yes, finally we get our revenge on the Fox executives."

Anyways, back on topic:

I D'oh!bot

This is actually the first Season 15 episode I've seen, though I saw a couple of Season 13 episodes earlier in the week. And compared to them, this wasn't bad. The plot seemed a little bit half-baked but there is a sense that it is becoming more important in the show now. And there were quite a few laugh out loud gags in there, two of my faves being when Bart removes the cover to find Homer sleeping, and the spring loaded First Aid box.

It's a shame about the Snowball II/V thing though. Obviously not a huge problem but it seemed unncessary.
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #670 on: 03-28-2004 15:52 »
« Last Edit on: 03-28-2004 15:52 »

Yeah I enjoyed this episode very much, strange you would enjoy the spring loaded first aid box
when its many peoples Criticsm of the show in recent years (Well at least scully episodes)
but in this case it was funny.
I actually didn't mind the Snowball plot thought it was quite good. Most peoplr hated at the NHC I guess I have a darker sense of humour, Mainly coltrane dying not so much Snowball III, the idea that Lisa's sax playing is so horrible he jumps out the window.
Even the problem with the unrelated first acts Improved slightly, as it touched on Homer being a bad workman, and The Bullies appeard later in the episode as well.
It wasn't the most Emotinal or Well plotted  episode of the season but I really enjoyed watching it.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #671 on: 03-28-2004 16:07 »

I quite liked it. It still suffers from the problem most other modern episodes suffer from, which is thinking that hurting Homer is inherently funny. (IT'S NOT!)

I liked that they worked in the Three Laws of Robotics at the end, and Frink Jr. imitating his father I found quite funny.

The subplot was much better than the regular plot, I felt. Admittedly, Snowball II has been rather peripheral (even moreso than even SLH) to The Simpsons since day one, but it was nice to get a Lisa plot which didn't revolve around her being annoying to everyone else.

Grade: B.
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #672 on: 03-28-2004 16:25 »

I think with this episode, whilst they're still suffering from a lot of Scully-isms, they're getting closer to what the show was originally about.
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #673 on: 03-28-2004 18:52 »

But there's a difference here, Homer is getting hurt for barts sake, and in the scully era, after he got hurt blood would squirt out of him and he'd run around screaming, and here it wasn't really supposed to be 'hey this'll be funny homer gets hurt' It didn't seem like it was supposed to be a huge joke in the way it would with Scully.

The thing I liked with Lisa's plot was that she was being an 8 year old girl, like when she happily singing away while getting the cat food at one point, while I like how smart and mature they've made her Its a good quality of Lisa to re-establish even if its not that funny.
Someone at NHC pointed out how Lisa names the cats snowball for sentimental valuse as opposed to something logical- Snowball I was a white cat so it makes sense to be Snowball, but it didn't with Snowball II and III.

Oh Yeah I just remberd my favourite Line
Announcer: "There's no love lost between these two emotionless machines"
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #674 on: 03-28-2004 19:16 »

Just in time for tonight's viewing, it's the promo card for..

"The Wandering Juvie"
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #675 on: 03-28-2004 20:18 »

Oh thank God! How could I have managed without seeing that?
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #676 on: 03-28-2004 20:32 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Mouse On Venus:
I think with this episode, whilst they're still suffering from a lot of Scully-isms, they're getting closer to what the show was originally about.

I rate this episode so highly (it's my favorite of season 15 so far) for many reasons. As user_names_suck said, Homer isn't shamelessly being injured for no reason, it is because he is trying to gain some respect and love from Bart. I think that, as MouseOnVenus said, Homer (along with many others)is getting back to his roots.

But, I don't completely agree that this episode suffers from Scully-isms. Sure Homer is being beaten by a robot, but, as I already stated, it isn't without reason. To me, one of the huge flaws of Scully's era was the idea that Homer being hurt was somehow funny. I mean, I don't mind it if the hero of the show (of course, Homer wasn't much of a hero during Scully's riegn, with the exception of a few episodes) gets hurt once in a while, but it has to be within reason. Homer shouldn't be constantly beaten and bleeding.

I think one of the things that seperates this one from a Scully episode is the fact that there is a Lisa sub-plot that has some real heart and isn't one of those where it seems as if the writers' attitude is 'Lisa's the smart one, she should act like it' (although Lisa's my favorite character, I must admit that in some Scully-eps she seemed like this). As user_names_suck said, the sub-plot was tastefully done. You can see Lisa's innocence in this episode, but you can also see her wisdom and maturity. When those qualities all shine through, your story works.

The other thing that seperates this from Scully's shows is the fact that there was actually a rather touching father/son plot. You can tell that Homer and Bart actually have a very loving relationship, and that Bart looks up to Homer. 
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #677 on: 03-28-2004 20:55 »

Yeah, there's a certain distinction that needs to be made with this one.  The injuries aren't inheritely funny because they are injuries.  They're funny because Homer is trying desperately to make Bart happy and getting hurt in the process.  Its not just mindless injuries like in the Scully era, or even certain Futurama jokes like Fry getting his hands eaten off.  Or even certain classic Simpsons gags like the injury gag in "Sideshow Bob Roberts" for instance.

Also, how many truly mindless injuries have there even been lately?  I think the "Marge vs...." bit with Homer getting his nose caught or whatever has been one of the only real examples lately (maybe shocking himself in "Diatribe" as well).  IMO its back to roughly classic-era level; injuries pop up here and there, but are hardly major forces in the show anymore.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #678 on: 03-28-2004 23:56 »

Sorry to double post.

As always my review, cut and pasted from the NHC.

A mixed bag.

It opened with some decent scenes at the store and even some nice satirical scenes (namely the young girls clothing area and the "beauty killing spores" or whatever scene). Luckily it got this irrelevant stuff out of the way quickly enough and moved on to Bart's story. The prank wasn't gut-bustingly hilarious like some of Bart's mischief of the past, but was nonetheless amusing and creative to say the least.

Basically through the rest of the episode it maintained roughly that level of humor. Very consistantly funny, just not really anything that was hilarious . I liked the stuff with the cops (including Cletus' wittling of the bear attack), Homer's visiting, the beat-up slide, Captain McCallister, edited Itchy and Scratchy etc. And even though its yet more meta-referencing, I had no choice but to enjoy the "Do the Bartman" reference.  There weren't really many (or any?) jokes that failed and it was thus consistant, but nothing seemed to really stand out.

The story is shakier. I like the basic concept of it but in practice it didn't quite work as well as it could have. The main problem, frankly, was probably the other lead character. She just wasn't developed enough to be interesting beyond the basic "tough juvenile hall girl" stereotype that I've seen on other shows before, and the "romantic" element was so underdeveloped that it seemed to come out of nowhere whenever it came up. Nonetheless many of the escaping scenes were fun, and before those scenes there were some nice moments with Bart at the center, and with some good characterization of him as well.

EDIT: Damn, how did I forget to mention this: As always McMullan's direction was great. It didnt seem as exciting as some previous shows (partially just from the nature of some of the scenes I think) but nonetheless it looked really cool with lots of nice angles and effects.

Overall, just a mixed bag. Could have been better if the consistant humor had also been really good humor, but an overall enjoyable show.

Grade: B-

Didja notice moments: The music used when Bart was walking around the playground was the same used when Bob talked about his prison life in "Black Widower"? (I'm not sure where the music comes from though).

Captain McCallister showed up for the first time in a long while? (I think) He used to be in the show all the time but seems to be used more sparingly lately?

For the first time in probably years an Itchy and Scratchy sketch actually showed the full theme (with Itchy and Scratchy hitting each other back and forth)?
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #679 on: 03-29-2004 02:23 »

Saw I-Doh-Bot. Incredible improvement from the taint of Scully. I enjoyed a lot of the episode.
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