It's back... in "Pog" form: The Simpsons, Season 15 (part 2)

[Reply #520 on:]

 

Originally posted by CrazyDoc:
PCC Fred, when you talk about the 'mindless sheep' demographic, are you including those people who have 'come back' to the show since Mike Scully left?

I'd have to say yes.  The Simpsons has improved since Mike Scully left, but only by a small margin.  It's still nowehere near as good as it was during the mid-late 90s.  But some people are talking as if Season 15 is the greatest thing ever, and I just don't see it.

[Reply #521 on:]

Yeah, Fred, but a) most people do NOT think S15 is the greatest thing ever and b) most of these people do not think that the Jean episodes come close to classic era quality.

Of course you'll get people who'll talk up Al Jean excessively but us more reasonable fans do sort of resent being tagged as 'mindless sheep', especially when we do our best to recognise good and bad in Simpsons episodes.

(Oh, and hi DoTheBartman. Guess which NHC poster I am? Without looking at my profile!) 

[Reply #522 on:]

I actually checked your profile to cheat but I'm still not sure who it is.  Good to see you here though, whoever you turn out to be.

Anyways, yeah, much as I defend Al Jean's seasons (aside from parts of 14), I realize its not as good as the first eight seasons.  And to be honest it doesn't even bother me that much at all anymore.  Nothing (including Futurama, sorry) is as good as the first eight seasons of The Simpsons to me, so how can I expect even any season past eight to foot that bill for me?  I'm very much enjoying season fifteen and ultimately that's what counts.  If I only watched things that were as good as my favorite Simpsons seasons, I would miss out on a lot of great television shows.

Its not the greatest thing ever, no.  In fact (restoring some Futurama love here) I enjoyed Futurama more then season fifteen.  But such comparisons only really matter with shows I don't enjoy, and I do very much enjoy The Simpsons right now.

[Reply #523 on:]

What we have to remember is to keep everything in contrast. One of the very first episodes I saw of the Simpsons was the one where Homere becomes the captain of the submarine, is mistaken for being a traitor, etc. and thought it was the funniest thing ever. I then watched all the old episodes in syndication starting at about season three and finally got back to that episode, and thought it was stupid and boring. So I do think that the new episodes are still good, but are really hard to enjoy when you remember what the show was.

[Reply #524 on:]

i guess that explains why you love the very first simpson episode you watch.

[Reply #525 on:]

My earliest memory of the Simpsons was the episode featuring the Itchy and Scratchy where Scratchy is skinned in the escalator.
I thought it was an actual show, like Ren and Stimpy.

[Reply #526 on:]

Fred: Not to stir up trouble, but you haven't exactly seen a lot of S15 episodes. In fact, the ones you have seen seem to be some of the weaker ones of the season.

I'd suggest...

"My Mother the Carjacker"
"I, D'oh-bot"
"Smart and Smarter"
"Tis the Fifteenth Season"
"The President Wore Pearls"
"Today, I am a Clown"
"Milhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore"

Any one of those would probably influence your choice.   

Also, the upcoming episode, "The Ziff Who Came To Dinner", sounds promising.

Edit: By the way, I made another list...

My Season Rankings (from best to worst)
4,7,6,5,3,2,8,15,9,13,14,1,12,10,11

[Reply #527 on:]

 

Originally posted by CrazyDoc:
Yeah, Fred, but a) most people do NOT think S15 is the greatest thing ever and b) most of these people do not think that the Jean episodes come close to classic era quality.

Of course you'll get people who'll talk up Al Jean excessively but us more reasonable fans do sort of resent being tagged as 'mindless sheep', especially when we do our best to recognise good and bad in Simpsons episodes.

So you keep watching the show despite the fact you know it's gone downhill in a big way?  How does that NOT make you a mindless sheep?  At least the people who still think the Simspons is top quality have a valid reason to watch it.

[Reply #528 on:]

Fred I respect you and all, but seriously man, chill out. I know that the show has gone down majorly in quality since the "Classic Era", but the fact that it's still an enjoyible show is just a testiment to how good the "Classic Era" was. It has nothing to do with being sheep, or giving in to commericalism, or any of that crap. It's a simple fact that many people still enjoy the show.I know Leelaholic is annoying by jumping on everyone who says they don't like the Simpsons, but you're really not being much better at this point (Not just you Fred, I mean a few people who are just coming in this thread and ranting about how much The Simpsons now sucks and then leaving).

And while I agree that it's time to put the show out to pasture, not because it's currently a bad show, because it isn't,  but because many elements are currently being rehashed from eariler seasons, and there's really nothing left for the Simpsons to do (And yes,  seasons 11&12 were actually bad which is what drove many of you away, I'm not talking about those right now).

[Reply #529 on:]

Well said, newhook.

I think when we refer to 'mindless sheep' we're actually talking about those who continued to trot out the 'Simpsons is the best thing on TV by miles!!!' line even though the darkest days of the Scully era. Most of us enjoy current-day Simpsons not for what it isn't, but for what it is - something we couldn't do during the Scully era due to many of the episodes being shite. Sure, Al Jean era ain't no classic era, but it's still a damn fine show, and for that we're grateful.

[Reply #530 on:]

 

Originally posted by newhook_1:
I know Leelaholic is annoying by jumping on everyone who says they don't like the Simpsons....

Eh, yeah. Sorry about that. I'll try to stop, I promise. 

[Reply #531 on:]

Yes, the show still has its moments, but I'm just plain tired of it. It just needs to end, but it won't because it's making too much money.

[Reply #532 on:]

Once again I have to disagree that it needs to end, In most real fans (not mindless sheep) opinion. The show Is redeeming itself, its above average now so why stop it on its course of getting closer and closer to the classic Era.
There's going to be a season 16 anyway. and according to Mike Reiss, there's no end in sight.
and there's plenty of fresh blood left in the show. If you dont Like it dont watch it. but just because you dont like it doesn't mean it needs to end.
If your tired of it Shadowstar dont watch it, why is everyone still repeating there opions that the show needs to end, your acheving nothing by arguing that so why bother.

This isn't even any kind of discussion anymore its just people repeating there opinions over and over and over and over and over and over. And over.

[Reply #533 on:]

Mike Reiss said in an interview recently "The Simpsons is like a 350 year old man. People say he's not as sharp as he used to be - well duh."

[Reply #534 on:]

what?
oh, i get it.

[Reply #535 on:]

Heh, despite that comment Reiss has otherwise been very positive lately (he made some comment about Jean rejuvinating the show).

Which is interesting really.  Around seasons 11/12 every interview seemed to have someone saying "we're running out of ideas,  I think we're going to pack it in soon".  Now every interview is "I think it could go on for a long while".

[Reply #536 on:]

ya, it was all scully.the ziff thingie sounds promising

[Reply #537 on:]

 

Originally posted by Shadowstar:
Yes, the show still has its moments, but I'm just plain tired of it. It just needs to end, but it won't because it's making too much money.

I both agree and disagree with that statement.

As it has been stated, the show is at least going on until the end of its sixteenth season, but I still think it will be renewed for at least one or two more seasons after that.

This is due to a couple of factors, really. One is, as you said, the show is making FOX immense amounts of money. And, as we all know, FOX (or Murdoch, take your choice) is incredibly greedy. But, the show could still come to an end and FOX could still pocket some dough due to merchandise revenues. Of course, the chances of the show ending or being cancelled are very slim, mostly because merchandise for a cancelled show, no matter what its popularity, wouldn't sell as well as it does now.

The other reason as to why The Simpsons is still on the air is because it gets more and more fans from new generations to balance out with the old fans who stopped watching because they consider it crap. This means that there is basically an endless amount of people, a lot of them children, who become fans of the show. So, no matter how you look at it, The Simpsons will always have a large fan base. This, in turn, means higher ratings, eventually leading to more money. This money helps line executives' pockets, but can also be used to fund other Fox projects, as well as expenses for The Simpsons as well. So there is also an endless stream of cash flowing in, which can keep the show on the air.

On the other hand, I can see why you might consider the show unfunny. If you have been a longtime fan as I and many others are, you can look at an episode in season 4 and compare it to an episode from season 15 and say that the season 4 episode is much better. I feel that the show is not what it used to be, but is infinitely better than the show of the Scully era. But, I can see that you may have high standards and consider The Simpsons to be boring.

[Reply #538 on:]

[Mom]Oh, I don't know...[/Mom]
The new episodes aren't all bad. But I will still watch them, since I am a rabid fan.

[Reply #539 on:]

I know this doesn't have to do with this but........... Nice picture Leelaholic!

[Reply #540 on:]

You mean this one that I haven't posted yet?

It's a banner ad for all of my spin-offs that I'm currently writing at the NHC. I'm fairly new to scan art, so that's why a few things look a bit... off.

Unless you're referring to my avatar   

[Reply #541 on:]

the blunder years look good, everything else is a bit odd.

[Reply #542 on:]

Spin-offs suck. Haven't you learned anything from any other show with spin-offs?

[Reply #543 on:]

 

Originally posted by Shadowstar:
Spin-offs suck. Haven't you learned anything from any other show with spin-offs?

Not always. I think 'Frasier' is great. But in general this is true.

[Reply #544 on:]

I meant in general. Forgot about "Fraiser."
Anyway, "The Ziff That Came to Dinner" airs tonight. I'm actually looking foward to this one, but that's only because Jon Lovitz is awesome.

[Reply #545 on:]

What about "Star Trek : The Next Generation"? And "Deep Space Nine"? 

Marge vs etc..... aired here tonight, and I'm glad that DtB and leelaholic have admitted it's not particularly good, because it to me feels very much like a Scully-era episode.

First off, the show had very litle plot direction, and what little there was seemed like a rehash of that episode where the kids have a curfew imposed (as indicated by my unwillingness to actually look up the title, that's not exactly one of my favourites either).

The parts I did like were the anti-Family advert which didn't have any sort of evidence to vote against 242, and Moe's "must....participate....in.... democratic...pro....cess" (I believe America, like much of the rest of the Western world, has been touched by voter apathy?  ).

But it was just uncomfortable; I kept wondering, "alright, so when's the plot going to get going?"

At least it's more of an exception than a rule.

F.

[Reply #546 on:]

I just saw "The Ziff Who Came To Dinner".


Dear Artie Ziff,

I hate you. You are a bad man and your horrible episode made me cry!

Get Bent,
Matt

[Reply #547 on:]

As usual, review copied from the No Homers Club.  I refer to an NHC member named Tomacco a few times, in case people are wondering.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this one and will probably want to watch it again to really give my final critique, but here's my review for now.  For whatever reason this will actually be yet another time this season where my opinion is similar to Tomacco's.

Basically, I kind of agree with him.  As an actual story, this one could have been better and seemed like several stories put together.  I was thinking in act one that they were wasting some time (although the movie/Bart and Lisa scenes were nonetheless quite well done), but as it turns out they might've needed it anyway.  Still, there were some good elements.  The very basic concept of the episode was creative (if slightly squandered in practice) and there was good use of lots of side characters, including some like Patty and Selma that haven't been featured in a while.  But the pacing was very odd and I hope that if Artie comes back again they put together a better story for him.

What made this one for me was the humor (again basically saying what Tomacco did).  The movie scenes were, again, despite their seemingly useless nature quite well done with lots of hilarious anecdotes (including some I'll need to freeze frame later to catch I'm sure).  The movie titles might became dated in the future but nonetheless were a highlight, especcially "The Fashion of the Christ" and the Matrix ones.  And overall things didn't let up too much, with much of Artie's scenes, the Jon Lovitz line of characters in the bar, Lisa's discussion of Homer's reading ability, etc providing some nice moments.  It was never amazingly funny really, but was consistant.

Also a few things to note.  One is that the animation direction was again very good.  Again, we seem to be past the bland look of a few seasons ago.  Also, since I started that thread on couch gags not seeming very good lately I should comment that this was a very good one.  Very strange, but creative.  It will probably start a whole new wave of "I know where Springfield is!" tards though.  Plus it was good to see the the art of the chalkboard gag is not officially gone from the show.

Overall, I will need another viewing to give a final grade, but for now its:

B/B+

[Reply #548 on:]

I agree with you for the most part, DTB. A weak plot with good humour. My grade is a bit lower, in the C range, perhaps because I though the plot was incredibly weak. It really was a waste of Artie's character, but still decent enough to re-watch.

[Reply #549 on:]

The movie stuff was funny, but other than that, the episode was awful. From the couch gag to the attic, I was cheering the show on, but then I remembered what it was supposed to be about and realized that the show was ten minutes in and it hadn't happened. The rest was just kind of thrown together and not so funny at all (exception: Maggie and the popup book). And throwing Patty and Selma in seemed like a good idea, but it was done in a an awful fashion. At the end, I was laughing, but also very confused about what had happened.

[Reply #550 on:]

I agree with the illiterate above. ^

I actually liked the start of this episode. Everything was fine until they went up to attic and found Artie Ziff. It just went downhill from there.

[Reply #551 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Heh, despite that comment Reiss has otherwise been very positive lately (he made some comment about Jean rejuvinating the show).

Which is interesting really.  Around seasons 11/12 every interview seemed to have someone saying "we're running out of ideas,  I think we're going to pack it in soon".  Now every interview is "I think it could go on for a long while".

I don't know about that one, professor. I remember during the Oakley and Weinstein days, everyone was like "stories are getting harder and harder to come up with every year. I can't see the show lasting past season 10".

Then as soon as Scully came in, that attitude changed. He was talking about taking the show to season 12, at the very least, and there were more "we're going to stay on the air forever" type comments.

I guess writers were putting actual effort into the episodes back in season 8. Nowadays they just think "hey, we can knock out a script in just a couple of hours, and then spend the rest of the day playing Pong. This job rocks! We should do this forever!"

Episode comments:

Marge vs. everyone, etc.

I'm surprised to see all of the current-day Simpsons fans hate this one. The story sucked, but at least it was actually funny. The whole Raffi concert was hilarious. Sure, it all went downhill after that, but this episode is one of maybe only three episodes that have actually made me laugh(Tis The 15th Season being the other one. I'm leaving one space open for any episode I may have forgotten about).

The Really Crappy Episode With Artie Ziff

I don't have the energy to argue about it. But I thought it was pretty bad. Lack of laughs, boring story, etc. Way to misuse Jon Lovitz. I'd rather just see another Critic crossover, frankly.

[Reply #552 on:]

Its true that in the Oakley and Weinstein days the "the show will probably end soon" sentiment was already starting.  But there was more negativity in the Scully era then the Jean era (from my observations anyway), which was my point.

[Reply #553 on:]

I disagree with the heinous comments. Personally, I thought this episode was pretty good. The beginning was great, although it had nothing to do with anything. The best was where Bart is in his room and hears a menacing sound, but it's actually Lovitz's throat-clearing noise. (achem!) I'm still angry at the fact that we're supposed to believe that Ziff was living in that attic for a year, sucking out the moisture from the boards. Totally dumb. Second act was pretty good, especially with Lombardo, Amatopolis, Sinclair, and Jay Sherman at the bar, all voiced by Lovitz if you didn't know. Third act was good, but kinda forced for services of plot... I tire of writing this review! But the couch gag is probably one of the best. EVER. I agree with Homer. "Wow..."
GRADE: 3.25/5
And whatchu talkin' bout, leelaholic? Artie's great! I'd love to see him return!

[Reply #554 on:]

Leelaholic gives it a bad review? that means its probably only worth a 4.75/5 then.

[Reply #555 on:]

I haven't been watching all the season 15 episodes, but I thought this one was a step up from some of the recent crap. It was a pleasant surprise. Maybe the writers are finally getting back on track after all. I give it a B.

[Reply #556 on:]

 

Originally posted by Shadowstar:
But the couch gag is probably one of the best. EVER. I agree with Homer. "Wow..."

Great couch gag, not-so-great episode
 

And whatchu talkin' bout, leelaholic? Artie's great! I'd love to see him return!

Yes, Artie's good, but this episode was VERY BAD!

[Reply #557 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Its true that in the Oakley and Weinstein days the "the show will probably end soon" sentiment was already starting.  But there was more negativity in the Scully era then the Jean era (from my observations anyway), which was my point.

Yeah, I know that was your point, but MY point was that I've observed the opposite. Maybe I don't read as many writer interviews as you, but I didn't notice very much negativity in the Scully era.

All of the Scully-era comments were of the "we are going to stay on the air forever" variety. Which was a change from the Oakley & Weinstein days, and seems to have continued into Jean's reign.

[Reply #558 on:]

Eh, maybe.  But as you suggested, I probably read more interviews then you do.

Scully himself was often a little negative by the way.  When he first came in, he made a lot of comments about "basically my goal is to not destroy the show" and "We don't want to be the guys that, you know, sunk the ship".  Hardly optimistic stuff, as opposed to Jean who, though I partially disagree with him obviously, contends that the show is as good as ever and doesn't seem to have any fear of "sinking the ship".

[Reply #559 on:]

True but Jeans not going to come out say 'The Simpsons sucked under Scully I'm going to make it much better now' Not until he finishes that role at least