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Author Topic: It's back... in "Pog" form: The Simpsons, Season 15 (part 2)  (Read 6891 times)
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DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #120 on: 02-19-2004 00:26 »

Agreed with that, just explaining to him why they would draw him as a loose charicuature and all.

I'm definetely not really thrilled that he'll be in it.  Even if he wasn't playing voicing the parody (although of course they're doing the parody because they have him to do it), I wouldn't care for it given that I don't really care at all about what's being parodied.  But I guess we'll see how it turns out.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #121 on: 02-19-2004 01:16 »

It took two days to get my quote back there, everyone apart from user_names_suck bow your head in shame, so called Simpsons fans.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #122 on: 02-19-2004 01:21 »
« Last Edit on: 02-19-2004 01:21 »

Heh, well I got it.  Wasn't sure how to appropriately answer it without making an otherwise useless post though.

Ironically I suppose this post is kind of useless.
M0le

Space Pope
****
« Reply #123 on: 02-19-2004 05:20 »

Upon first seeing 'The President wore Pearls' I thought it was a terrible episode. Watching it again, though, I realized it was actually the best Season 15 episode I've seen so far. Willy was the best I have ever seen him. Heh, so many good jokes about him in there.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #124 on: 02-19-2004 13:08 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:
 I think there's a fine line between self-parody and fawning over. For instance, would Birch Barlow and Rainer Wolfcastle be as funny as they are if they were voiced by Limbaugh and Schwartzenegger, respectively? I think having someone parody themself kind of dulls the edge in a way. A joke's not as funny if the target is 'in on it.'

Agreed, that's the point I was making...

ghoulishmoose

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #125 on: 02-19-2004 13:26 »

I was reading the paper this afternoon and there was a small article about The Simpsons that had Simon Cowell in it. It said that he plays the owner of an exclusive nursery school or something, and babies have to audition to get in, and of course thats where the pop idol paradoy comes in. But Maggie doesn't get in, and then Homer ends up punching him. Then Simon just keeps asking for more...?!

It sounded so damn weak and pretty pathectic. I cant remember the last time I watched a new Simpsons ep. About a year ago I think. But judging by the sound of this episode, sounds like they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel to find story lines. Any old storyline it would appear...
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #126 on: 02-19-2004 13:30 »

1.  We already know about Cowell being on the show and have already discussed it at length.

2. You obviously have no idea what the actual plot is.  Watch an episode before saying stuff like that.

3. "Running out of ideas" has never been the reason for the decline.  The decline happened when Mike Scully decided to turn it into the "The Retarded Adventures of Homer Simpson and his Flatulent Friends" in season 9.
ghoulishmoose

Urban Legend
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« Reply #127 on: 02-19-2004 13:36 »

Hey, dont start having a go at me!

All I did was voice my opinnion on what I thought. Its just an opinnion. If you dont like it then just ignore it.

Why the hell did I come in this shitty little thread anyway  frown
Guy

Professor
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« Reply #128 on: 02-19-2004 13:36 »

Little?
ghoulishmoose

Urban Legend
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« Reply #129 on: 02-19-2004 13:42 »

Well, its not exactly huge.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #130 on: 02-19-2004 13:45 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ghoulishmoose:
Hey, dont start having a go at me!

All I did was voice my opinnion on what I thought. Its just an opinnion. If you dont like it then just ignore it.

Why the hell did I come in this shitty little thread anyway   frown

You're right, it was just your opinion. I'm afraid he's now suffering from "leelaholicitus"...

Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #131 on: 02-19-2004 15:58 »

Damn you Leelaholic, we hate you and everything you stand for!
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #132 on: 02-19-2004 16:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ghoulishmoose:
Hey, dont start having a go at me!

All I did was voice my opinnion on what I thought. Its just an opinnion. If you dont like it then just ignore it.

  frown

Actually DotheBartman argued against your opinions because they were misinformed
that's also allowed. he was trying to correct things that were wrong with your opinion.

OC_James

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #133 on: 02-19-2004 16:06 »
« Last Edit on: 02-19-2004 16:06 »

Honestly, this isn't even a review thread anymore. "Criticize Simpsons in a Negative Way And Die!" would have been a better title for this thread.
Jesus, your show sucks. I know you're all trying to pretend that it's "all good" and putting your fingers into your ears and all, but you need to get over it. You can tell yourselves all you want that the decline in quality is the fault of Scully, but that doesn't make it true.

It's time for the Simpsons to be put down like a horse with a broken leg.

P.S. user_names_suck or whatever: You can't correct an opinion, that's what makes it an opinion instead of a fact.

[Edited to correct User_names_suck]
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #134 on: 02-19-2004 16:19 »

Yeah, really. leelaholic is making us decent Simpsons fans look bad! At least we can admit to the horrible episodes this season. But along with it were a few good ones. But still, this show needs to end. If there's a Season 17, then we have a problem.
I find that the reason I watch new episodes now is not because I really want to see them, but because I'm a fanatic and must see every episode. Go ahead and try to tell me that this isn't a problem.
ghoulishmoose

Urban Legend
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« Reply #135 on: 02-19-2004 16:33 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
he was trying to correct things that were wrong with your opinion.

There was nothing wrong my my opinnion. You cant correct an opinnion, purely because it is an opinnion. They're neither wrong nor right. Plus, they're "personal", so of course not everyone is going to agree, I respect that.

This thread is too uptight and defensive. I just popped in to see what was going on in here, voiced an opinnion and nearly got my head bitten off by over protective over sensitive Simpsons fans. I understand that you love this program, I have no problems with that. But at the end of the day, this is a Futurama message board. You're in the wrong place  smile
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #136 on: 02-19-2004 16:36 »

Stop attacking GM, you jerks.   mad
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #137 on: 02-19-2004 16:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by OC_James:
Honestly, this isn't even a review thread anymore. "Criticize Simpsons in a Negative Way And Die!" would have been a better title for this thread.
Jesus, your show sucks. I know you're all trying to pretend that it's "all good" and putting your fingers into your ears and all, but you need to get over it. You can tell yourselves all you want that the decline in quality is the fault of Scully, but that doesn't make it true.

It's time for the Simpsons to be put down like a horse with a broken leg.

P.S. user_names_suck or whatever: You can't correct an opinion, that's what makes it an opinion instead of a fact.

[Edited to correct User_names_suck]


Yes ok but Ghoulishmoose's opinion was still
based on some misinformation.
George W Bush and Tony Blair seem to be off the Opinion that there war was justified because Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, but if they dont have anything and thats proven they cant hold on to that opinion because it wouldn't make sense.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #138 on: 02-19-2004 16:43 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shadowstar:
 If there's a Season 17, then we have a problem...

Just a quick question, does that mean there definitely will be a Season 16?...

And on another note, it's refreshingly good to see some truth in this thread for a change, especially from OC and GM  smile
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #139 on: 02-19-2004 16:48 »

Ghoulish: For the record I wasn't trying to attack you or be mean.  That's more Leelaholic's style.

I was just mostly correcting somethings.  Just as a suggestion you should read the rest of the thread first so you aren't misinformed.  You obviously didn't know what the actual plot of the new episode is, just who the guest star is (imagine if we all were watching the "Brush With Greatness" promos and thought the episode was about Ringo Starr...).

OC James: Maybe some people are deluding themselves.  But have you ever stopped to consider that some of us STILL LIKE the show?

Deluding myself would be giving every episode an "A" and saying "every single episode ever is amazing", and trust me, I know people like that.  But I have given both positive and negative reviews this season, and overall I am enjoying the season.  I legitimately laugh and legitimately enjoy the show.  I don't see what's deluding myself about that. Maybe if you had seen my reviews LAST season you'd realize just how negative I can be.

And it was Scully's fault.  Let me get this straight again.  Scully was RUNNING the show.  He was the showrunner.  The showrunner makes every single call, hires (and maybe sometimes fires?) every single writer or keeps them on the show.  The showrunner is the person that allows or disallows different plots and jokes, and decides which ones go into the show.  Bottom line: EVERYTHING IS the SHOWRUNNER'S FAULT.  That's in the case of both good and bad episodes.  By that token, every bad episode in Jean's era is his fault as well. 

But Jean has fixed many of Scully's problems and has produced far more good episodes this season already then Scully did in the span of 2-3 seasons.  As soon as the he took over again there was at least a small improvement.

The quality of current shows is up to the showrunner.  Its not up to Ian Maxtone Graham, or Carolyn Omine, or Dana Gould, or Matt Groening, or anyone else.  Its all the showrunner.

Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #140 on: 02-19-2004 16:48 »

Yes, I believe the show was resigned for this season (15), and a 16th season.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #141 on: 02-19-2004 16:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shadowstar:
Yeah, really. leelaholic is making us decent Simpsons fans look bad! At least we can admit to the horrible episodes this season. But along with it were a few good ones..

Leelaholic gives a C grade to
-The Fat and the Furriest
and C- grades to
-Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless couples and Teens and Gays
and
-Margical History Tour


yes I think he's overating many to but i consider those pretty Low Grades

I'm not one to say the Jean era has shown suchHuge improvment and there have been very sucky episodes in Season 13 and 14 with many flaws but season 15 so far in the U.K has made me feel more postive towards the show and made me want to be more defensive.

DoTheBartman the best arguer of us Simpsons fans here might agree with me that it could prove to be better than season 9.


Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #142 on: 02-19-2004 16:53 »

Otis, last year, FOX signed on for an additional two years to the (at the time) 14 seasons. That takes the show into 2005 (at least) and gives it 16 seasons.
I really think that they should call it quits after that, though.
ghoulishmoose

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #143 on: 02-19-2004 16:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Ghoulish: For the record I wasn't trying to attack you or be mean. That's more Leelaholic's style.

Ok no problem, no harm done  smile
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #144 on: 02-19-2004 16:57 »

It depends though If they find a really good showrunner with some brilliant new ideas it could be worth it.
davierocks

Professor
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« Reply #145 on: 02-19-2004 16:57 »

No.  The Simpsons should never end.  It should go on and on forever because I find Homer funny when he does all the stupid things and stuff and he sayd D'oh and Bart says Ay Caramba.  It's high quality programming you hear me?
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #146 on: 02-19-2004 16:58 »

Yes, season 15 is better then 9, I agree with that.

If we wanna talk about repitive, "bottom of the barrel" plots, seasons 9 and 10 are the ones to talk about.  Sure, 11 was worse then 9 or 10 (12 is better then 11 and 10 but still far worse then even 9), but at least 11-12 had some variety.  Scully at least had the guts to completely change the style of the show into his retarded cartoon vision.

But 9 and 10 are horribly bland story wise.  As someone said on another board, they were "sitcomish" and not "Simpsonsish".  That is, the characters simply became horribly bland (not annoying like season 11, but bland and without any personality AT ALL like your standard sitcom character).  The stories became horribly bland as well and mostly felt like standard sitcom plots.  Consider "Dumbell Indemnity", "Realty Bites", "Bart Carny" and "Bart Starr" as examples.  I don't even want to go into the trash pile that is season 10.

Was season 9 funny?  Yeah, mostly.  Almost never hilariously so, but it did provide chuckles most of the time.  But the more I look back on that season the less interested I am in ever seeing most of those again.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #147 on: 02-19-2004 17:04 »
« Last Edit on: 02-19-2004 17:04 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Gorky:
Otis, last year, FOX signed on for an additional two years to the (at the time) 14 seasons. That takes the show into 2005 (at least) and gives it 16 seasons.
I really think that they should call it quits after that, though.

Clool, thanx you and Shadowstar. I remember them signing that two year contract, but just couldn’t quite remember how long ago that was, if it was for Seasons 14 and 15, or 15 and 16. But it turns out to be 15 and 16, which I agree, I hope it ends there too.

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
 Leelaholic gives a C grade to
-The Fat and the Furriest
and C- grades to
-Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless couples and Teens and Gays
and
-Margical History Tour


yes I think he's overating many to but i consider those pretty Low Grades

C's aren't low grades, they're average grades at worst. Low grades are E's and F's, and D's are lower average. Look at this scale...

A,B,C,D,E,F

C is only the third worst grade out of six in total. There are two better, and three worse. It's closer to the high grades than the low grades, it's on the high grades side, and one could even argue it is one of the high grades. It's upper avarage, because it's on the better side of the middle, with D being lower agerage on the other side. It's definately not a pretty low grade...

User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #148 on: 02-19-2004 17:08 »

Actually I dont think people ever give E grades
all over the net I see people using that grading scheme and dont include E and I think an F should usually only be given when its a really Egregious episode.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #149 on: 02-19-2004 17:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
Actually I dont think people ever give E grades
all over the net I see people using that grading scheme and dont include E and I think an F should usually only be given when its a really Egregious episode.

What a contradiction if ever I saw one. What's wrong with Simpsons fans grading E's and F's, is that too low to give to their precious Simpsons?...
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #150 on: 02-19-2004 17:15 »

Regarding my earlier statement about not wanting a season 17, I too think that the show is improving. But, good storylines seem few and far between. I would watch season 17, but I would hope that the plots and storylines were of good quality.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #151 on: 02-19-2004 17:17 »

Well, different people do rate on different scales.

For me its:

A: VERY good.  Usually one of the best of the season (unless its such a great season, like four, that its simply constantly getting them).  Basically its about as good as it gets, although obvious there are A episodes that are higher then others.

B: Not excellent, but still good.  Basically its a fine episode, but just doesn't quite stick out with the best of the season.

C: Mediocre.  Not bad, watchable, but at the same time nothing makes it memorable or even particularly worth re-watching.  For the record a C- is actually a bad grade, instead of merely mediocre, and something I would NEVER watch again for the most part.

D: Bad.  There's varying levels of this (a D- signifies a particularly bad show), but basically there's very little about this that could be classified as good at all.  Unwatchable.  Again, C- falls into this category as well.

F: Atrocious.  So bad as to be one of the worst shows ever.  Only a select few actually get this grade from me (off the top of my head: Simpsons Safari, Pray Anything, Kill the Alligator and Run, Homer the Moe, Sunday Cruddy Sunday, The Mansion Family, Large Marge).  A few will actually get an F- if they're bad enough, which maybe three of my choices are.

Also, with pluses and minuses, depending on what grade is next to the plus or minus puts the episode in that basic range basically, but there's some distinction.  An A- would be really good but just not quite excellent, a B+ would be really good but less so (I make a distinction between the +/-s that are close to each other even if they are close).  A C+ would be a C that has something more memorable then most C episodes about it, as another example.

Otis, I'm actually not sure where you get the idea of an "E" grade.  Not bashing you here, I've just actually never seen it used.  Most people use either the school grading system (which doesn't have an E), or numbers (on a scale of ten like 6/10, or a scale of 5 like 4/5, depending on how precise they want to get).

Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #152 on: 02-19-2004 17:26 »
« Last Edit on: 02-19-2004 17:26 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Otis, I'm actually not sure where you get the idea of an "E" grade.  Not bashing you here, I've just actually never seen it used.  Most people use either the school grading system (which doesn't have an E), or numbers (on a scale of ten like 6/10, or a scale of 5 like 4/5, depending on how precise they want to get).

I just use the whole lot because it's between C and F, and the more potential grades, the more accurate the chosen grade is. It's there, so it makes sense to use it. It just seems totally pointless giving an episode a C- as a bad grade, when you can just cut all those crappy extras out, and just use the E instead of a minus...
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #153 on: 02-19-2004 17:33 »

Maybe.  As I said everyone has slightly different grading techniques and standards.

But you did compare them with Leelaholic's grades and seemingly assumed that he uses E as part of his scale.  And since you're actually the only person I know that uses E, it would seem like that would innacurate.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #154 on: 02-19-2004 17:39 »
« Last Edit on: 02-19-2004 17:39 »

I wasn't calling or "assuming" a C- as an E  grade. Between E and C is D.  I meant taking out that crappy minus, using the D as the C-, and using the E where D would be, if minuses were used. This might sound complicated, but it's actually a lot simpler. The minus was what made it unnecessarily complicated in the first place.

And yet, still not an F in sight...
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #155 on: 02-19-2004 17:45 »

Here's my grading system:

A or 5/5: A terrific episode with a great plot and great jokes. All the characters are in great form throughout. To earn this grade, an episode shouldn't have a guest star just for the sake of having a guest star (i.e. Blink 182 in "Barting Over". In my opinion, they weren't needed.), however someone like Mr. Bergstrom (a guest star playing a character) is fine. "A" episodes are of the same quality as "My Mother the Carjacker", or "The President Wore Pearls".

B or 4/5: A good episode with a good storyline and jokes. Most (if not all) of the characters are likable, and aren't poorly represented. A guest star is possibly included, but his or her role in the show actually helps the plot, such as Tony Hawk in "Barting Over" (he wasn't necessary, but he moved the plot forward.) An episode like "Milhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore" deserves this grade.

C or 3/5: The plot isn't really that strong and the episode isn't exceptionally funny. A guest star may be included, but he or she doesn't help the episode. Of course, if the storyline just doesn't work that well or is gimmicky, the episode gets this grade, even if there was no guest star. "Mr. Spritz Goes to Washington", for example, gets this grade.

D or 4/5: This would be an episode where the plot makes no sense or is entirely stupid. Homer or another main character is not particularly likable or funny in an episode like this. The episode may be full of guest stars who do nothing for the show whatsoever (not like "Homer At The Bat" or other shows with large guest casts. In both "Homer At The Bat" and "Krusty Gets Kancelled", the guests move the episode along.) An episode like "Treehouse of Horror XIV" gets a grade like this.

F or 1/5: An entirely pointless episode. The characters are out of character or are not acting like themselves. It is an entirely un-watchable episode. Personally, I've never given an episode an F. None are that terrible.
OC_James

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #156 on: 02-19-2004 17:45 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
OC James: Maybe some people are deluding themselves.  But have you ever stopped to consider that some of us STILL LIKE the show?

Well, I think it's rather obvious that people still like the show. Look at the ratings it pulls in. I'm just saying, you acted a tad too rude to GM. It's not really you that bothers me, it's another constant poster in this thread (whose name I shall not mention because that'd be FLAM1NG!!11!).
People have different opinions, if I got upset or angry at people who have "misinformed" opinions or ones I don't agree with, I'd have a hell of a body count in real life and would probably have been banned from PEEL months ago.

I have no serious beef with anyone who still likes the Simpsons, I do get angry when that person gets upset with people who criticize the show negatively. Don't start a review thread unless you can handle a few negative reviews and even the ocassional flaming.
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #157 on: 02-19-2004 17:59 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Well, different people do rate on different scales.

For me its:

A: VERY good.  Usually one of the best of the season (unless its such a great season, like four, that its simply constantly getting them).  Basically its about as good as it gets, although obvious there are A episodes that are higher then others.

B: Not excellent, but still good.  Basically its a fine episode, but just doesn't quite stick out with the best of the season.

C: Mediocre.  Not bad, watchable, but at the same time nothing makes it memorable or even particularly worth re-watching.  For the record a C- is actually a bad grade, instead of merely mediocre, and something I would NEVER watch again for the most part.

My problem with online reviewers is that everything tends to fall within those three categories (maybe a C+ instead of a C). Very rarely are internet fans constructively critical of new episodes. It's either "the best of the season" or "it sucked!"
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #158 on: 02-19-2004 18:45 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:
 My problem with online reviewers is that everything tends to fall within those three categories (maybe a C+ instead of a C). Very rarely are internet fans constructively critical of new episodes. It's either "the best of the season" or "it sucked!"

I'm not sure if that's neccasarily fair.  There are some people like that and they annoy/upset me, but I don't think that's true of everyone or even most people.  There's lost of constructive reviews out there, often very lengthy ones (the NHC always has lots of pretty lengthy ones in the new episode review threads).

I do agree that its at least sometimes a problem though.  There's some people at the NHC for instance that often get ridiculed a little for posting very short "I LOVED IT!  EVERY EPISODE IS FANTASTIC! 5/5!!!!11!" type reviews or "it sucked like all new episodes. 1/5" reviews.
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #159 on: 02-19-2004 21:18 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by OC_James:
 Well, I think it's rather obvious that people still like the show. Look at the ratings it pulls in. I'm just saying, you acted a tad too rude to GM. It's not really you that bothers me, it's another constant poster in this thread (whose name I shall not mention because that'd be FLAM1NG!!11!).
People have different opinions, if I got upset or angry at people who have "misinformed" opinions or ones I don't agree with, I'd have a hell of a body count in real life and would probably have been banned from PEEL months ago.

I have no serious beef with anyone who still likes the Simpsons, I do get angry when that person gets upset with people who criticize the show negatively. Don't start a review thread unless you can handle a few negative reviews and even the ocassional flaming.


But to be fair on the negative reviews I sense an attitude of
"right I'm going to pick apart everything and focus on all the negative aspects so I can dismiss the simpsons as shit."
also there seems to be complete denial among users here that a later episode could actually come quite close to matching even the worst episodes from the classic era.


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