It's back... in "Pog" form: The Simpsons, Season 15 (part 2)

[Reply #160 on:]

 

Originally posted by Otis P Jivefunk:
 Just a quick question, does that mean there definitely will be a Season 16?...

And on another note, it's refreshingly good to see some truth in this thread for a change, especially from OC and GM   

I've been hating them for a while now, and you never noticed me comrade.

[Reply #161 on:]

Hold up, hold up.

Coming from someone not obsessed by the Simpsons, I don't think 'Kill The Alligator And Run' was a bad episode at all...

I missed the Simpsons going to England the other night. I was unfortunatly (fortunatly?) at the physio.

[Reply #162 on:]

Eh, sorry.  Kill the Alligator and Run embodies every single thing that went wrong with The Simpsons around that time.  If someone can explain to me in even somewhat reasonable terms why that isn't the case, or even why it could be considered decent or even watchable, I'll be mighty impressed.  Hasn't happened yet though.

It was even my "worst episode ever" for a while.  Then that bastard Simpsons Safari had to come and steal its glory.

[Reply #163 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
3. "Running out of ideas" has never been the reason for the decline.  The decline happened when Mike Scully decided to turn it into the "The Retarded Adventures of Homer Simpson and his Flatulent Friends" in season 9.

Erm...hello? I don't know what being raped by a panda counts as, but IMO that's running out of ideas.

In fact, making Homer "dumber" is running out of ideas - when you can't think of anything clever to happen just make the main character stupider, allowing for wilder plots.

[Reply #164 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Eh, sorry.  Kill the Alligator and Run embodies every single thing that went wrong with The Simpsons around that time.  If someone can explain to me in even somewhat reasonable terms why that isn't the case, or even why it could be considered decent or even watchable, I'll be mighty impressed.  Hasn't happened yet though.

I thought the spring break thing was amusing. I thought the jokes were amusing. I thought the episode was quite funny really. It is actually one of my favourite Simpsons episodes. So there.

[Reply #165 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Eh, sorry.  Kill the Alligator and Run embodies every single thing that went wrong with The Simpsons around that time.  If someone can explain to me in even somewhat reasonable terms why that isn't the case, or even why it could be considered decent or even watchable, I'll be mighty impressed.  Hasn't happened yet though.

Different people like different things.  Done.  Now shower me with praise.

[Reply #166 on:]

Davie, you are so smart/brave/sensible/mature/hot.

I think people only dislike it because they want to blame Scully.

[Reply #167 on:]

Actually, I dislike it because it highlights a key problem with the newer episodes - lack of coherent direction. The episode was essentially a sketch show, and a bad one at that. The best way I heard it put was that it felt like they handed the script round the room and each writer wrote a scene.

[Reply #168 on:]

   

Originally posted by Otis P Jivefunk:
  C's aren't low grades, they're average grades at worst. Low grades are E's and F's, and D's are lower average. Look at this scale...

A,B,C,D,E,F

C is only the third worst grade out of six in total. There are two better, and three worse. It's closer to the high grades than the low grades, it's on the high grades side, and one could even argue it is one of the high grades. It's upper avarage, because it's on the better side of the middle, with D being lower agerage on the other side. It's definately not a pretty low grade...

Oh, fine...

-THOH XIV B-
-My Mother the Carjacker A+
-The President Wore Pearls A
-The Regina Monologues B+
-The Fat and the Furriest C-
-Today, I Am a Clown B+
-'Tis the 15th Season A+
-Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless couples and Teens and Gays D-
-I, D'oh-bot A+
-Diatribe of a Mad Housewife A
-Margical History Tour D
-Milhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore A-
   

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
I wasn't trying to attack you or be mean. That's more leelaholic's style.

   

Originally posted by Nurdbot:
He's suffering from "Leelaholicitis"

   

Originally posted by Shadowstar:
Leelaholic, you're making us decent Simpsons fans look bad!

 

Originally posted by OC_James:
It's not you that's bothering me, it's [leelaholic]

                   
   

Originally posted by OC_James:
"Criticize the Simpsons harshly and die" would be a better title for this thread.

Maybe "Attack Leelaholic" would be better...

I just wanted to express my opinions. 

Edit: And, for the record, the only F's I've ever given are "Tennis the Menace" and "Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings"

[Reply #169 on:]

 

Originally posted by Leelaholic:
Maybe "Attack Leelaholic" would be better...

Maybe there's a reason that everyone's attacking you? Even Simpsons lovers and haters don't seem to agree with you.

[Reply #170 on:]

 

Originally posted by sheep555:
 Erm...hello? I don't know what being raped by a panda counts as, but IMO that's running out of ideas.

In fact, making Homer "dumber" is running out of ideas - when you can't think of anything clever to happen just make the main character stupider, allowing for wilder plots.

I don't think the panda rape falls into "running out of ideas", just a different (and of course bad) direction for the show.  As I said, Scully decided to turn the show into "The Retarded Adventures of Homer Simpson and Friends".  Homer's dumbing down falls into that category as well.  They were making him dumber by season four or five, so its not really a loss of ideas but more of a loss of the original direction of the show.  Scully simply had a different idea of what the show should be (case in point: he named "Trash of the Titans" as an example of "everything The Simpsons does best; a wacky Homer adventure with the family in supporting roles" ).

I've never attempted to use the "running out of ideas" line as a reason for the show's decline because I just think its a cop-out.  There's still plenty of unique ideas in the show today, and I've seen plenty of perfectly find fan ideas as well.  This is just a show that has more or less infinite potential story ideas.  That said, its fairly obvious that exhausted most of the most "simple" stories after maybe the fourth season, but that doesn't really change that you can almost never really "run out of ideas" with this show.  I think it was just a completely different direction for the show that didn't work that caused the decline.

Alex and Davie....eh, fair enough that people have different tastes, but that doesn't account for awful characterization, complete lack of intelligent humor, the annoying trendy guest star, bad pacing and plotting, etc etc.  Basically, what I meant is that I will be mighty impressed if someone can explain to me why I should like that episode DESPITE those obvious problems.  Frankly I'm not sure if someone who likes that episode really should be complaining about modern episodes....but I guess maybe that's unfair.

[Reply #171 on:]

 

Originally posted by leelaholic:
I just wanted to express my opinions.   

Edit: And, for the record, the only F's I've ever given are "Tennis the Menace" and "Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings"

But that's the point! I respect your opinion, but the lowest rating you give a S15 episode is a C-, and the highest is an A+.

If I'm to understand your rating system, are you saying that 'Tis the 15th Season was as good, if not better, as say, Radio Bart?

Let me put it this way - you're telling people on a Futurama board that only one Simpsons episode in the history of the show is worse than The Devil's Hands are Idol Playthings...and I'm willingly to bet that no other Simpsons fan would agree with you on that one.

I mean, find me one other Simpsons fan who thinks "The Principal & The Pauper", possibly one of the worst episodes of all time, is better than TDHAIP?


...take DotheBartman - he justifies his opinions, rather than sticking his fingers in his ears and going "blah blah blah Simpsons is great!"

[Reply #172 on:]

 

Originally posted by leelaholic:
     

Originally posted by Nurdbot:
He's suffering from "Leelaholicitis"

   
Maybe "Attack Leelaholic" would be better...

I just wanted to express my opinions.   

Hey, I said that too, don't give him all the credit!   ...

[Reply #173 on:]

 

Originally posted by sheep555:
Let me put it this way - you're telling people on a Futurama board that only one Simpsons episode in the history of the show is worse than The Devil's Hands are Idol Playthings...and I'm willingly to bet that no other Simpsons fan would agree with you on that one.

He isn't saying it's worse than 4acv18, he's saying its as awful as. Quite frankly I can't see how you could give 4acv18 a grade that low. I mean, it had opera singing AND guys in bad robot costumes dancing to it. And the writing on the opera's lyrics and music was both genius.

So, as a die hard Simpsons fan (but not the kind that praises everything just cause its OFF, in fact they almost lost me during season 12) I must apologize to have this 'leelaholic' (you cant totally dislike 4acv18 if you're using that avatar, btw) representing us, which is very sad indeed, but at least I can be glad someone with intelligence, by which I'm refering to DoTheBartman, is also representing us. Cheers

[Reply #174 on:]

OK, let's not get into the whole "Devil's Hands" arguement, where we have leelaholic vs. everyone else.
Also, I'd rather watch "Principal and the Pauper" than "Kif Gets Knocked Up a Notch." Or "Leela's Homeworld."

[Reply #175 on:]

 

Originally posted by leelaholic:
I just wanted to express my opinions.   

Edit: And, for the record, the only F's I've ever given are "Tennis the Menace" and "Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings"

Maybe you should draw more hot futurama fan art and we'd respect you more.

[Reply #176 on:]

Yeah, but his art usually finds some way of fusing with the Simpsons.
It appears I went too far. [runs off]

[Reply #177 on:]

 

Originally posted by sheep555:
  But that's the point! I respect your opinion, but the lowest rating you give a S15 episode is a C-, and the highest is an A+.

No. The lowest I gave was a "D-"

 

If I'm to understand your rating system, are you saying that 'Tis the 15th Season was as good, if not better, as say, Radio Bart?

Where'd you get THAT from? Anyway, "Tis the Fifteenth Season"  was awesome, but "Radio Bart" is better.

 

Let me put it this way - you're telling people on a Futurama board that only one Simpsons episode in the history of the show is worse than The Devil's Hands are Idol Playthings

Actually, "Tennis the Menace" is a little better, but still worse than the #2 worst Futurama episode.
 

I mean, find me one other Simpsons fan who thinks "The Principal & The Pauper", possibly one of the worst episodes of all time, is better than TDHAIP?

HOLY. FUCK. 
"The Principal and the Pauper" was BRILLIANT!! Now, if you were talking about "Simpson Safari" or some such crap, I could understand where you're coming from.
 

...take DotheBartman - he justifies his opinions, rather than sticking his fingers in his ears and going "blah blah blah Simpsons is great!"

Yes, but Otis, Ghoulishmoose,  OC, and countless others all flame the new episodes without even watching them. I actually watch them and give them the grades that I feel they deserve. Then, they call me (someone who's seen every episode this season) a liar for having a different opinion than them (who haven't seen jack shit thus far).

[Reply #178 on:]

Tell me, how do you flame an episode?  They are just reviewing it.  What the fuck are you talking about?  Think before you use that word.

[Reply #179 on:]

I'm not refering to the (very few) actual reviews in here. I'm talking about people that don't watch the episode, but think that their opinion is worth more than ours because they're saying something bad, and, apparently, there's some unwritten rule that all new episodes HAVE to be bad and that anyone who says that they like them one little bit is lying.

[Reply #180 on:]

Because people have looked at a description of episode from bad promos. Ghoulishmoose for one doesn't know how much the part of the plot homer getting revenge on the Simon Cowell style character will take up or the context of it and the rest of the episodes description, yet describes it as scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Although agreed Leelalhoic has used the term a little too much, and I think he just lost any sherd of dignity that remained by claiming 'The principal and the pauper' was 'brilliant'
Yes the execution is alright but its the worse
idea in simpsons history.

[Reply #181 on:]

what surprises me is that Leelaholic still seems surprised and angered when Simpson 'flaming' starts. Hello! Futurama message board! Futurama
i can't stress this enough Fu-tur-am-a[/b][/i]

 I wouldn't go to an Angel thread and tell them most Buffy eps are way better. why come to a futurama board and do essentially the same thing? If you wanna discuss (praise excessively) simpsons, do it on the simpson board. That is why it exists. No one there would dissagree with your ratings.

[Reply #182 on:]

User name: Heh, yeah, but I still like the episode. I just said "brilliant" out of shock for seeing that he called it one of the worst ever.

Judging by Fox's shitty promos, you'd think that "I, D'oh-bot" would be really bad, but it wasn't. Oh my, no.

[Reply #183 on:]

Simpsons season 4 DVD speculation thread? What the hell is that?

[Reply #184 on:]

Well actually leelaholic is on another simpsons board, as am I but it would be nice to discuss simpsons with people on other boards as well, and leelaholic also likes to discuss futurama as well I presume.
also Futurama and Simpsons were both created by Matt Groening, also David Cohen an ex Simpsons writer helped develop it with him, so there will be similarites even if they are few and far between.
So it kind of makes sense that futurama fans might quite like simpsons too.   

[Reply #185 on:]

it may be nice to discuss simpsons at other message boards, but if i were to go to one of those simpson boards and then spend my time praising all things futurama while simultaniously dissing what is considered a highly rated simpson ep, i would be considered a troll. And if everytime i opened a futurama thread on that simpson board and it dissolved into a 'flame fest' i wouldn't go creating other futurama threads, or a "(insert the name of said simpson board) vs, Futurama" thread. Nor would i throw a fit everytime someone said something anti-futurama.

[Reply #186 on:]

Most people here love the Simpsons, at least classic Simpsons from season 3-8/9, but you have to consider many was turned off new episodes by watching what the show degenerated into.

 

Originally posted by leelaholic:
 

I mean, find me one other Simpsons fan who thinks "The Principal & The Pauper", possibly one of the worst episodes of all time, is better than TDHAIP?

  HOLY. FUCK.   
"The Principal and the Pauper" was BRILLIANT!!

"The Principal And The Pauper" was horrible. Pure and simple. I was shocked when I discovered Ken Keeler was the writer of this travesty (if it sounds like I'm flaming the episode, I am! I can't stand it, that litteraly was the turning point for me. Sure a couple of good episodes turned up alter on (like "Lisa's Sax" right after), but things just never got back on track). They more or less destroyed Skinner's character, most of the jokes fell flat on their face, the plot was a trainwreck and the ending was such a coup-out, deux-ex-machina end it shoud be in the "Big Book Of Plot Twists Never to Put Into A Sitcom". 
 

 

...take DotheBartman - he justifies his opinions, rather than sticking his fingers in his ears and going "blah blah blah Simpsons is great!"

Yes, but Otis, Ghoulishmoose,  OC, and countless others all flame the new episodes without even watching them. I actually watch them and give them the grades that I feel they deserve. Then, they call me (someone who's seen every episode this season) a liar for having a different opinion than them (who haven't seen jack shit thus far).

No, you're calling everybody who voice negative opinions about The Simpsons a flamer. And it's starting to affect your credibility. After 7 sub-A reviews by people who had seen "Millhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore" your response was "God. You people will flame anything.", followed up by a "Best Episode of The Season"-review. If you wan't people to respect your opinion, you might want to start to do the same in return.

 

Originally posted by ShadowStar:
Also, I'd rather watch "Principal and the Pauper" than "Kif Gets Knocked Up a Notch." Or "Leela's Homeworld."

Okay, I'll take that grassy knoll over there, Venus will take the open window in the conviniently located book-storage building, now we just need someone to open the umbrella at the right time.

[Reply #187 on:]

Well I tried to make the point Earlier that DoTheBartman who's opinions are respected considers season 15 better than season 9 (so far at least) which even though it was turning point
its still among most people considerd acceptable.

[Reply #188 on:]

 

Originally posted by leelaholic:
 Yes, but Otis, Ghoulishmoose,  OC, and countless others all flame the new episodes without even watching them. I actually watch them and give them the grades that I feel they deserve. Then, they call me (someone who's seen every episode this season) a liar for having a different opinion than them (who haven't seen jack shit thus far).

To this day I have fully justified all my opinions (or flames as you put them). I actually have a reason for not watching them. Yes, I have given The Simpsons a chance, yes, I have given them many many chances indeed. But after being constantly disappointed, bored, and turned off by the most recent seasons of  The Simpsons, prior to Season 15, it turned me away from the show. The Simpsons itself is why I no longer watch, there is no bigger reason. I no longer enjoyed the majority of new episodes, and personally didn't feel it was worth dredging my way through constant crap, just to reap the few rewards. To me it started feeling like a parody of itself, on average, getting more and more stale. I gave them four whole seasons of chances, Seasons 10-14. Admittedly by Season 14 I didn't catch every single episode, because I was slowly being turned off. And then came Season 15, which I decided was the turn-off point for me. I have explained this before, why don't you get it, and get over it?...

On a side note, nice post Venus. And just let the whole GM thing drop won’t you? She made one comment yesterday, which was just her opinion, and she even tried calling a truss with her “No harm done” comment. And yet you’re still arguing about it today like a couple of immature school kids...

[Reply #189 on:]

...what's GM? Or was that part even directed at me?

[Reply #190 on:]

 

Originally posted by Venus:
...what's GM? Or was that part even directed at me?

No, it's not directed at you. The only part directed at you was the "nice post" part. GM is short for Ghoulishmoose.

[Reply #191 on:]

 

Originally posted by Teral:
No, you're calling everybody who voice negative opinions about The Simpsons a flamer. And it's starting to affect your credibility. After 7 sub-A reviews by people who had seen "Millhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore" your response was "God. You people will flame anything.", followed up by a "Best Episode of The Season"-review. If you wan't people to respect your opinion, you might want to start to do the same in return.

Teral: The Voice of Reason.

*claps*

[Reply #192 on:]

 

Originally posted by Venus:

 If you wanna discuss (praise excessively) simpsons, do it on the simpson board. That is why it exists. No one there would dissagree with your ratings.

You don't follow The Simpsons fan community much, do you? 

Half joking there.  But as early as season four people were saying it was a shell of its former self.  Anyone who wants proof need only Google up some classic alt.tv.simpsons posts if they want.

Actually, its interesting how Futurama seemed to be going the same route (not in quality mind you, but in fan reaction).  They even threw a dig at the fanbase with Fry's "this show's been going downhill since season three" comment.

[Reply #193 on:]

It's like a moral right out of South Park! (that is a compliment) Jolly good show, Teral.
Although, about "The Principal and the Pauper," if you ignore that fucked up fact that Skinner was a fraud all this time, the episode had a couple good jokes. The episode still sucks ass, but it's not the worst episode ever. ...maybe it's the 7th worst or something...

[Reply #194 on:]

Sure, season 9 is okay, but this season the show is definitely showing how good it can be. I have yet to see one episode (with the possible exception of "Today, I Am Clown" ) that is terrible, which wasn't the case with past seasons ("Mr. Spritz Goes to Washington" comes to mind...).
Regarding season 9, I think that you have to take into consideration the fact that it really just didn't have that many terrific episodes.The one mentioned above ("The Principal and the Pauper" ) is one of the episodes that I'm not too crazy about. I don't think I'm alone when I say that it kind of hurt Skinner's character in a way.

[Reply #195 on:]

Intresting you consider 'today I am a clown' to be the terrible one, I really liked it but I didn't think much of 'fat and furriest' or 'reginia monolouges'

originally posted by DoTheBartman
But as early as season four people were saying it was a shell of its former self. Anyone who wants proof need only Google up some classic alt.tv.simpsons posts if they want.
Actually, its interesting how Futurama seemed to be going the same route (not in quality mind you, but in fan reaction). They even threw a dig at the fanbase with Fry's "this show's been going downhill since season three" comment

Intresting Many people although I completley disagee seem to think South Park went downhill in season 4, is there a patter emerging here.

[Reply #196 on:]

yup. The pattern is that almost nobody has an attention span that can be fully entertained by a set of characters for longer than 3-4 years.

[Reply #197 on:]

   

Originally posted by Teral:
No, you're calling everybody who voice negative opinions about The Simpsons a flamer. And it's starting to affect your credibility. After 7 sub-A reviews by people who had seen "Millhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore" your response was "God. You people will flame anything.", followed up by a "Best Episode of The Season"-review. If you wan't people to respect your opinion, you might want to start to do the same in return.

[Homer]Finally! Someone explains it in words I can understand![/Homer]
Rather than pointlessly telling me that I'm being stupid and making me more annoyed, you actually told me what I did wrong. I really did want to know.

Thanks, Teral. I'll try to improve. I promise.   
   

Also posted by Teral:
"The Principal And The Pauper" was horrible. Pure and simple. I was shocked when I discovered Ken Keeler was the writer of this travesty (if it sounds like I'm flaming the episode, I am! I can't stand it, that litteraly was the turning point for me. Sure a couple of good episodes turned up alter on (like "Lisa's Sax" right after), but things just never got back on track). They more or less destroyed Skinner's character, most of the jokes fell flat on their face, the plot was a trainwreck and the ending was such a coup-out, deux-ex-machina end it shoud be in the "Big Book Of Plot Twists Never to Put Into A Sitcom".

Now, I respect your opinion (see?    ), but I really liked the episode. Sure, it was a little messed up, but still IMO great. The ending was a HUGE cheat, I'll admit. But I sure don't think that the humor was bad. In fact, one of my favorite Simpsons moments comes from it...

Homer: Okay, once more.  Where are we going?
 Edna: To Capital City.
Homer: And why are you and the old lady in the car?
Agnes: We're gonna talk Armin Tanzarian into coming back.
Homer: And why is Marge here?
Marge: I came up with the idea.
Homer: And why am I here?
Marge: Because the streets of Capital City are no place for three unescorted
       ladies.
Homer: Why are the kids here?
Marge: Because we couldn't find Grandpa to sit for them.
Homer: Why is Grandpa here?
Abe: Because Jasper didn't want to come by himself!
Homer: Huh, fair enough.

   

   

Originally posted by Venus:
but if i were to go to one of those simpson boards and then spend my time praising all things futurama while simultaniously dissing what is considered a highly rated simpson ep, i would be considered a troll.

Why? Just because you hate one episode? I don't praise all things Simpson. Most of seasons 10-12 SERIOUSLY bug me. Still, IMO "Devil's Hand's" was undeniably sucky. Sorry. Just my opinion.   

It's not like I'm just forcing my opinions on you. If I said "'Tennis the Menace' is the worst Simpsons episode, but it's still better than 'Jurassic Bark'", then yes. I would be a troll. But I'm not.

Edit: Just so you don't get the wrong idea...

Tennis the Menace F
Jurassic Bark A+

[Reply #198 on:]

 

Originally posted by leelaholic:
    HOLY. FUCK.   
"The Principal and the Pauper" was BRILLIANT!! Now, if you were talking about "Simpson Safari" or some such crap, I could understand where you're coming from.

I'm not sure if this antecdote is true or not, but what it's what I've heard second- and third- hand.  Apparently, sometime between the draft, the animatic, and the final product, everyone realized that "The Principal and the Pauper" was a horrible, horrible mistake.  To my limited Simpsons-internet knowledge, I believe that Keeler himself apologized for said episode and destroying Skinner's character.

And, about criticizing the show without watching it, here's my two cents.  Surprisingly, I've seen a few episodes this season.  Even though I haven't been impressed by much (if any) of them, I try to go in with a blank slate. However, a lot of former Simpsons die-hards have been burned by "The Scully Years," and therefore their opinion of the show has changed dramatically. It's like the Star Wars movies. After the suckiness of Episodes 1 and 2, the original triology just doesn't seem as magical as it used to.

/edit -- and I don't want to go into the "Devil's Hands" argument, but I watched said episode.  One of my friends who fell out of the habit of watching Futurama (cuz of the crappy timeslot) watched it as well. As soon as the show ended, he called me and just said "Wow. Great." I tend to believe the majority over some kid who tries to stir up trouble with no solid reasons.

[Reply #199 on:]

I would like to add that I think "The Principal and the Pauper" is horrible too. And that's coming from me, the crazy person who likes "Kill The Aligator And Run". The ending is a disgrace to the Simpsons and to television in general. Before you get angry at me because I haven't said why I don't like it, just read was Teral said, because that is what I think too.

I'm not much of a fan of 'Devil's Hands' either, but it is still above average for a Futurama episode. I would give it a C+ or B, certainly not anything below C. And I'm not biased, I can't stand 'Leela's Homeworld'. I would rate that an E probably.

And really, in the nicest and non-flaming way possible, I don't know why you even post here.