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Author Topic: JJ Abrams is a (visionary/disgrace) who must be (commended/stopped): Star Trek  (Read 30221 times)
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PEE Poll: Star Trek: The Best
Original Series
The Next Generation
Deep Space 9
Voyager
Enterprise

aslate

Space Pope
****
« on: 08-02-2002 17:44 »
« Last Edit on: 11-22-2008 16:38 by Nixorbo »

Easy, what Star Trek is the best? I didn't include 'Star-Trek sucks' as the thread would be riddled with 'I hate Star-Treck' posts, please son't bother!
PS: Mine's Voyager, DS9, then the others joint third (Enterprise is too young here to judge).

Teral

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« Reply #1 on: 08-02-2002 18:29 »

Simply put; DS9 is one of the best series ever made for TV. That show was awesome in every sense of the word.

List goes:

1-5: DS9
6: TNG
7: VOY/TOS/ENT
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #2 on: 08-02-2002 18:43 »

The Next Generation, with DS9 a close second.  The original is dated but still good, while Voyager and Enterprise have failed to live up to their pilot episodes.
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #3 on: 08-02-2002 18:47 »

DS9. It's what Star Trek wants to be when it grows up.
Aleel

Starship Captain
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« Reply #4 on: 08-02-2002 18:50 »

1. DS9
2. VOY
3. ENT
4. TNG
5. TOS
Tweek

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« Reply #5 on: 08-03-2002 03:30 »

I like them all, but DS9 is my favourite. That said, Babylon 5 and Farscape are better than any of them.
ZombieJesus

Lost Belgian
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« Reply #6 on: 08-03-2002 05:34 »

DS9
VOY/TNG
ENT
TOS
...
...
...
...
TAS

I guess I'm a sucker for CGI-heavy eps.
MuscaDomestica

Professor
*
« Reply #7 on: 08-03-2002 10:49 »

I agree with Tweek about B5 and Farscape (I missed a bunch of episodes recently though), here is my listing
DS9
TOS
TNG
VOY

Haven't watched more then two episodes of Enterprise, saw a couple eps looked too much like Voyager for my tastes.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #8 on: 08-03-2002 11:53 »

I still can't really decide between DS9 and TNG.  Quite frankly, I was not overly impressed with DS9 until they got the Defiant.  I'll vote TNG based on sentimental value (it was my first Trek series).
FishyJoe

Honorary German
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« Reply #9 on: 08-03-2002 13:07 »

You people have no appreciation for the classics. I hate Star Trek, but even I can see that Kirk and company rule over all those other jerks.
Sarge

Professor
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« Reply #10 on: 08-04-2002 02:13 »

*bitch-slaps Jeff across the jaccuzi*
TNG's last 4 seasons ruled. The original series also kicked ass, but not as much.
Ben

Space Pope
****
« Reply #11 on: 08-04-2002 02:50 »

I'll have to agree with Jeff here. There are more pop culture references to do with the  orginal one, making it the one that non-fans, like myself, can relate to. Still, none of them were great television, in my opinion.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
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« Reply #12 on: 08-04-2002 03:55 »

Need I remind you that Whoopie Goldberg was on The Next Generation? That automatically makes it the worst series.
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #13 on: 08-04-2002 04:03 »

And Iggy Pop was on DS9, which automatically makes it the best series.
FishyJoe

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« Reply #14 on: 08-04-2002 04:09 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2002 04:09 »

Dean Stockwell guest starred on an episode of Enterprise. That puts it somewhere near the top, although if future seasons go completely Dean Stockwell-free, it could quickly sink to the bottom.
Tweek

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« Reply #15 on: 08-04-2002 05:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FishyJoe:
Need I remind you that Whoopie Goldberg was on The Next Generation? That automatically makes it the worst series.
...and the character Wesley Crusher  no no

ZombieJesus

Lost Belgian
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« Reply #16 on: 08-04-2002 14:52 »

Did you know that Zach de la Roca, from Rage Against The Machine was on VOY. To be precise, in the ep where captain J. takes three unexperienced crewmembers on their first awaymission.
Sarge

Professor
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« Reply #17 on: 08-04-2002 14:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FishyJoe:
Need I remind you that Whoopie Goldberg was on The Next Generation? That automatically makes it the worst series.
You got a point there, but I think it was her best work ever because she was a quiet character & not 'in your face'. Her other stuff reeks.

Nixorbo

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« Reply #18 on: 08-04-2002 18:11 »

You know, The Rock also appeared in an episode of Voyager, and proceeded to kick the crap out of Seven of Nine, as I recall.
DrThunder88

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« Reply #19 on: 08-04-2002 18:41 »

He even did the People's Eyebrow, or more appropriately the "Rinarian's Eybrow".
Chump

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« Reply #20 on: 08-04-2002 19:00 »

I choose Voyager. It was a solid plot, they coped well with people leaving, Jeri Ryan is really hot, and the theme music is really cool. Especially the drums...

TNG next, then Original, then Enterprise, then DSN. I notice there are 0 votes for Original... odd.
Teral

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« Reply #21 on: 08-05-2002 05:01 »

Just that to most PEEL'ers (if they like Trek) have grown up with TNG, DS9 and to a lesser extent V'Ger. TOS doesn't have the same visual allure that the rest of the show has.

I like the theme music and the opening sequence of Voyager. And some of the episodes are quite good, some even downright great! Seven or Dax, that's the question. The Doc and Seven are good characters. That said, I'm going to kill myself if Voyager beats DS9.


Note: not a promise.
Tweek

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« Reply #22 on: 08-05-2002 05:44 »

I grew up the the original series, when TNG first came on I didn't bother watching, as it wasn't "the real thing".
aslate

Space Pope
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« Reply #23 on: 08-05-2002 08:52 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
Just that to most PEEL'ers (if they like Trek) have grown up with TNG, DS9 and to a lesser extent V'Ger. TOS doesn't have the same visual allure that the rest of the show has.

I like the theme music and the opening sequence of Voyager. And some of the episodes are quite good, some even downright great! Seven or Dax, that's the question. The Doc and Seven are good characters. That said, I'm going to kill myself if Voyager beats DS9.


Note: not a promise.

Finally another one to agree with me.
MuscaDomestica

Professor
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« Reply #24 on: 08-05-2002 08:55 »

I actuall enjoy watching TOS, It seems to be doing things better then TNG where aliens became nothing more then people with bumpy forheads
SpacemanSpiff

Space Pope
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« Reply #25 on: 08-05-2002 09:13 »

1. DS9
2. TOS
3. TNG
voy sucks too much. they're just taking apart the whole star trek universe.

hail seitan

Gocad

Space Pope
****
« Reply #26 on: 04-04-2003 05:19 »

I do not really want to choose between DS9 and TNG, but since I have to, I pick DS9, because it was something new in the Star Trek Universe.
Also, Jeffrey Combs appeared in this one.
(Weyoun, Brunt, you name it)


I'm watching you. Yes, YOU!
Zed 85

Space Pope
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« Reply #27 on: 04-04-2003 05:33 »

I grew up with TNG so that's my favourite. I like TOS and Voyager as well, but haven't seen enough of DS9 or Enterprise to make judgement.  smile
CyberKnight

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« Reply #28 on: 04-04-2003 05:56 »
« Last Edit on: 04-04-2003 05:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
Just that to most PEEL'ers (if they like Trek) have grown up with TNG, DS9 and to a lesser extent V'Ger. TOS doesn't have the same visual allure that the rest of the show has.

I like the theme music and the opening sequence of Voyager. And some of the episodes are quite good, some even downright great! Seven or Dax, that's the question. The Doc and Seven are good characters. That said, I'm going to kill myself if Voyager beats DS9.

Strangely enough, I prefer the DS9 theme to the Voyager one - especially the post "Way of the Warrior" version. And I agree some of the episodes are pretty good ("Message in A Bottle" is probably my favourite, and that's primarily set in the Alpha Quadrant).
Like a lot of Voyager fans, I was disappointed when Seven replaced Kes, but that doesn't mean she's not a good character - the writer's just over-used her. The Doctor is probably my favourite character.

Janeway, OTOH, went psycho after season four. (My theory is that it happened after she ditched the ponytail   wink). Her future self in "Endgame" *shudder* actually reminds me of Mom. The tone of the series really changed in Season 5 (the worst season).

And TNG's last four seasons are my favourites. (Although if I had 490 to spare, I'd probably go out and buy all the DS9 sets and watch them, just to see what the fuss is all about   wink).

Slurm

Bending Unit
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« Reply #29 on: 04-04-2003 09:04 »

1. DS9
2. TNG
3. TOS
4. Enterprize
5. Voyager

For me DS9 is the best, it was fairly boring for about the first 3 seasons until the Dominion got involved.
TNG is a close second and I don't really care much for the other series.

Voyager was a load of wank, the fact that the captain was female automatically made it unrealistic j/k but seriously if you are going to have a female captain shes gotta be hot like Leela, Seven would have made a far better captain.
Another thing I didn't like about Voyager is that they ruined the greatest star trek villians ever - the borg, the used to be cool but Voyager turned them into a joke
Lurrr

Professor
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« Reply #30 on: 04-04-2003 11:20 »

1. TNG
2. TOS
3. DS9
4. ENT
5. VOY

Maybe I'm one of the 'old guard' trekkies (which is odd considering I was only four when TNG started!) but I much prefer the older series. There was much better storytelling, much more adventure and they were much more original. The first three seasons of DS9 were just boring while the last four seemed to constantly rip off Babylon 5 (I know there's a lot of debate on that subject, but this is just my opinion). Voyager started off well but it just got silly. After season three, if it didn't include the borg in some way, or seven of nine in YET ANOTHER tight-fitting uniform then the writers didn't seem to care about it. And I agree with Slurm, in TNG the Borg were scary. Voyager (and ST: First Contact IMO) turned them into video game villains.

I'm sure though that if Gene Roddenberry were still alive DS9, Voyager and Enterprise would be waste basket material. He didn't like the idea of Star Trek as a money-making vehicle but that's what it's become. Really I just wish they'd let it die. There's much better stuff that deserves to be on TV (like Babylon 5 and Farscape).
Gocad

Space Pope
****
« Reply #31 on: 04-04-2003 11:25 »

like Babylon 5...
  evil laugh


I'm watching you. Yes, YOU!
PCC Fred

Space Pope
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« Reply #32 on: 04-04-2003 11:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PCC Fred:
The Next Generation, with DS9 a close second.  The original is dated but still good, while Voyager and Enterprise have failed to live up to their pilot episodes.

I'm starting to rethink this.  After rewatching TNG on DVD, the seventh season is actually quite dull.  DS9 had a kickass seventh season.

And Enterprise has definitely improved recently.  And Hoshi is soooooooo cute!  love
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #33 on: 04-04-2003 11:54 »

Voyager did over-use the Borg, in the same way many people felt TNG over-used the Klingons.


For me, the peak of Voyager will always be Season Four. Even though Seven was still part of the regular cast, a lot of the series' classic episodes are in this season (The Killing Game, Message in a Bottle, Scorpion, Year of Hell).

What highlights the differences between latter-day Trek and the Original Series is most clearly seen when comparing "Endgame" (Voyager's finale, and the worst Voyager ep ever made, IMHO) to "City on the Edge of Forever". Janeway quite happily mucks around with the timeline for very personal gain and gets away with it, whereas Kirk is forced to allow someone he loves to die to save the future. As many reviewers at the time put it : it seems new Trek at the moment means you can have your cake and eat it too.

One thing I'm glad to see them trying to make an effort on in "Enterprise" (it's a s, you silly Americans  wink) is continuity between eps. In Voyager every episode could have taken place in a different reality, save for the few "sequel" eps (Course : Oblivion, Flesh And Blood, etc). DS9 OTOH had huge story arcs which spanned seasons, but was very difficult to get into unless you knew what was going on. I felt TNG had the balance just right.

B&B are often quoted as saying that they don't really care what the "hard-core fans on the internet" think, like the current batch of writers on "The Simpsons". The difference is that The Simpsons can get away with it (not very well) because of the rest of their huge audience. "Enterprise" doesn't have that. (It's funny, it's kind of like "Futurama" except the writers of the latter are clearly trying to work in concert with their fans).

I wonder whether Trek should take a break, similar to the one Bond took a few years ago. Get some new ideas in, think up really good plots, etc. That said, I'm quite enjoying "Enterprise", if only on an entertainment level.

Smitty

Professor
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« Reply #34 on: 04-04-2003 12:04 »

DS9 with TNG and Voyager several light years behind. DS9 was cool rather than Voyager "kewl." No stupid moronic characters (except Ezri *vomits*) and plotlines that make sense *glares at Voyager*

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
Seven or Dax, that's the question.

I assume you mean Jadzia  tongue
Teral

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« Reply #35 on: 04-04-2003 12:14 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by CyberKnight:
 Strangely enough, I prefer the DS9 theme to the Voyager one - especially the post "Way of the Warrior" version. And I agree some of the episodes are pretty good ("Message in A Bottle" is probably my favourite, and that's primarily set in the Alpha Quadrant).
Like a lot of Voyager fans, I was disappointed when Seven replaced Kes, but that doesn't mean she's not a good character - the writer's just over-used her. The Doctor is probably my favourite character.

Janeway, OTOH, went psycho after season four. (My theory is that it happened after she ditched the ponytail    wink). Her future self in "Endgame" *shudder* actually reminds me of Mom. The tone of the series really changed in Season 5 (the worst season).

And TNG's last four seasons are my favourites. (Although if I had 490 to spare, I'd probably go out and buy all the DS9 sets and watch them, just to see what the fuss is all about    wink).


I like the DS9 theme better too, I just think the V'ger was pretty neat as well.

The rest of this post is all IMHO (there I said it  wink).

"Voyager" started to go downhill the moment they forgot about the basics, the underlying theme of the show. The basic idea was: "a ship stranded faraway from home, in hostile territory, with two different crews, forced by circumstances to work together, for that slight hope of getting back to their families". Sounds like a cool setting doesn't it? I thought so. Unfortunately the writers/creators didn't, and after 3 or 4 episodes it turned to TNG Lite.

Stranded in hostile territory? Then why was Neelix's only task to run the kitchen, and advice the captain once she screwed up, and only then?

Faraway from home? Then how come the ship looked in absolutely mint-condition at the start of each episode? The only time we hear about the distance to UFP is when they need mineral X or element Y, and that's conviniently located on this nearby planet, who just happen to be the homeworld/sacred place/battlefield of the Alien Of The Week. The ship should have looked like it did in "Year of Hell II" (one of Voyagers best episodes, IMO).

Actually I think the Equinox made a better Voyager than Voyager itself.

"Two different crews, forced together by cirucmstances". After the first 3 episodes did we ever see any Maquis members? The Maquis were renegades, freedomfighters and disgruntled ex-Starfleeters. Yet they blended in so well with the by-the-numbers-and-a-rule-and-regulation-for-each-situation Starfleet crew. Only when Chakotay said, he or she was an ex-Maquis did we hear about the two crews.

The idea about Maquis and Starfleet, with their different ideologies and workmethods, was a great setting for lots of interesting episodes, and it was conviniently swept under the rug. "Learning Curve" was about melding the two crews, and that part of the episode was good.

Add to all this that the characters themself was of little interest. I didn't really care for any of them. Holodoc was a great character, and his development was good. I like Seven (for other reasons than the obvious  wink). There were some great moments when she learned to become an individual again. Ofcourse Janeway had to go psycho on her, once Seven didn't want to be just like her. Blah.


Don't confuse not caring with not knowing!
Teral

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« Reply #36 on: 04-04-2003 12:15 »
« Last Edit on: 04-04-2003 12:15 »

Sorry for the doublepost, but the board went wonky on me when I tried to do it all in one go.

Janeway. Why did none of her bad command decisions come back to haunt her? She executed Tuvix, sentenced everybody to a 70-year journey and broke the Prime Directive, just to save a race none of them had heard about, etc. And not a single pip of decent, other than that of a Cardassian agent, and her pet? Not a single Maquis wanted to start a mutiny, just because Chakotay said no? Noone wanted to get of the ship in "The 37's"? That does not compute.

And about her actions in "Endgame", let me quote an acquaintance from another board: "Through hard work and dedication Janeway finally manage to bring her crew home, think it's not worth it and decides to cheat".

The Reset Buttontm was pushed at the end of each episode, ie no continuity (one of the things I loved about DS9).

Okay, let me end here (I could go on    tongue), with stating some of the things I liked about "Voyager".

I liked the ship, it looked really cool (no match for DS9, but definetely better than Ent-D).

I liked the Viidians, the Hirogen was acceptable, the Krennim were great.

I liked some of the episodes "Year of Hell I + II" (best voyager eps ever), "Distant Origin", "Scorpion I +II", "Living Witness", "Equinox I + II", the rest of the names I have to look up later.

As I said, some good things, but a tremendous amount of lacking issues make up this series downfall.

All still IMHO.    big grin


 
Quote
Originally posted by Smitty:
I assume you mean Jadzia

Yeah, I favor Jadzia most of the two DS9 Trills.  Although Ezri was a real cutie too, just her character was handled poorly.
------------------
I have been searching for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence!
wu_konguk

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« Reply #37 on: 04-04-2003 12:15 »

I'll be short. I liked DS9 better because it was more gritty than TNG adn was not swamped in techno bable like voyager was.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #38 on: 04-04-2003 12:23 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by CyberKnight:
What highlights the differences between latter-day Trek and the Original Series is most clearly seen when comparing "Endgame" (Voyager's finale, and the worst Voyager ep ever made, IMHO) to "City on the Edge of Forever". Janeway quite happily mucks around with the timeline for very personal gain and gets away with it, whereas Kirk is forced to allow someone he loves to die to save the future. As many reviewers at the time put it : it seems new Trek at the moment means you can have your cake and eat it too.

That is a really, really good point.  Would you mind if I stuck that in an e-mail to a Star Trek magazine?
Smitty

Professor
*
« Reply #39 on: 04-04-2003 12:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
I liked a lot of the episodes "Year of Hell I + II" (best voyager eps ever), "Distant Origin", "Scorpion I +II", "Living Witness", "Equinox I + II", the rest of the names I have to look up later.

I was surprised to find that I quite liked a lot of the episodes. I like literally *every* Doctor episode (especially Living Witness and the one where he makes himself a family (Real Life was it called?)). And I liked it when things Voyager did had consequences (what a rare thing!) like Hope And Fear and Blink Of An Eye. Voyager did pretty good stories, just dreadful continuity.
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