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Author Topic: ‘The Shipping News’, the Colditzer_1 Prize-winning thread by jlE. Xannie Archoulx  (Read 28838 times)
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Xanfor

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« on: 12-11-2007 13:47 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:

If I could tell the world just one thing, it would be
that we're all Ok...
And not to worry, 'cause worry is wasteful,
and useless in times like these.
I won't be made useless.
I won't be idle with despair.
I will gather myself around my faith;
For light does the darkness most fear...

My hands, are small, I know,
but they're not yours, they are my own,
but they're not yours, they are my own, and,
I am never broken...


Yeah. My current lament. Fitting, eh? Most of this ought to be going in the review thread, I know, but you guys here have more of a tendency to run with and analyze things, so here I am.

Anyway... BBS. Bender's Big Score. Controversy, indeed. Blatant violations of our deepest faiths have occurred. Let's tackle this one step at a time, shall we? This is the first time I've ever seriously commented on a new release, so wish me luck in obtaining completeness, coherency, and comprehensibility.

Continuity is currently a big gripe among fans now, it seems, so I'll start with my thoughts on that. To begin with, case in point for shippers: TDHAIP. Now, to tell the truth, I'm not really surprised about the unceremonious blowoff. After all, the delightful part of this particular episode was it's ambiguity: Either the series was over, and whatever you wanted to happen could did happen; or two, the series ain't over and it could be resumed right where it left off. It was decided to resume. (Albeit not entirely where they left off...) And come to think of it, is there any way this episode could have been meaningfully acknowledged? Any way that doesn't end up with Leela portrayed as Ralph Snart most vehemently believes? It is entirely possible to do so, of course (I'll explain later on here), but Futurama does have a few standards to hold up to, primarily, it's unfortunate classification as a 'comedy' and not 'drama'.

Other episodes in which apparent continuity violations are evidently worth of dissatisfaction are WoF and JB. Both are neglectable, as far as I'm concerned. When I saw JB for the first time, it never occurred to me that Seymour had actually died then. In fact, it seemed glaringly obvious to me that he hadn't died yet, because he fossilized differently. BBS is explainable by selective editing, I say. (Ignoring the events of January 1st, I am.) As for WoF, the main concern seems to revolve around Nibbler in the cryogenics lab. No biggie. All the scenes in the tube room occurred thirty minutes after Fry was frozen, and this is verified by the on-screen text.

LoTF (and CW to some extent) is where the majority of my disconcertment lies, and because of this, numerous threads of conjecture and speculation have just spewed forth from my encephalon. To start with, the majority of this episode has been overwritten by the newly inaugurated into canon BBS. I say this because it is evidenced by Bender's trip nineteen seconds into the past that past events can in fact be changed using the time code. Also evidenced on numerous occasions is that paradox-resulting effects needn't be preceded by a cause. This throws Seymour's death and the destruction of New York in dubious acknowledgeablity, however, neither is of much personal encumbrance to me. What is of personal encumbrance to me is that the writers took no time at all to explain how past events could simply be erased, especially when the convoluted nature of time travel is brought into consideration. The thought in turn leads me to wonder about the nature of flashbacks. What are flashbacks? Flashbacks pre-BBS will show Fry vanishing from his family's life, and the effects of that. Post-BBS flashbacks will show Fry living with his family for ten years, before setting off on a boat to the North Pole, and returning two years later. Therefore, the timeline must have changed. But how does a timeline change? If we were to graph this (which I may do at some point), we would have to add a fifth dimension to account for it.

In fact, I'll do this. With adjectives, not pixels. A thought experiment examining the nature of flashbacks and the time code...

Suppose I decided to record a film about the life of Xanthor, Planet Express's chief eunuch and philosopher. I jump into my paradox-neutral time-travel ship, the TARDIZ, and wheeze on back to 3003, where Xanthor is smoking his pipe and watching 'Raiders of the Lost Arcade' on the What-If Machine. Now, as Farnsworth turns to ask Xanthor whether he would like to axe the machine a question, I gesture to him across the laboratory so that no one will see me. He raises one eyebrow, slightly annoyed at losing his one chance to say a line the entire series, and as the camera cuts away, stands up and walks over to meet me, the rest of the crew oblivious.

I begin interviewing Xanthor about the major events in his life. However, he offers to show me instead. Sure thing, I reply, and set off towards the TARDIZ. Xanthor, however, has an advanced distrust in new-fangled contraptions, and tells me that he'll meet me there. I'm a tad confused, but I agree. As I close the door to my ship, I hear him muttering a certain string on binary under his breath.

I appear during the year 2950, in the Planet Express attic room. A few seconds afterwards, a huge green sphere pops into existence beside me. Out pops Xanthor. This was the day I was hired at Planet Express, he says. We walk out onto the balcony and look downward. Sure enough, a younger Xanthor is walking across the sidewalk. As he passes the front doors of the building, we hear the Professor cry out, "Hey you! Old guy! You're hired!" Xanthor gives a little smirk as his past self enters the building. We chat for a little while, before Xanthor tells me he's suddenly had an idea, and to meet him in the year 3015. I enter the TARDIZ once again as he sets of down the road towards Applied Cryogenics.

I head forward to 3015. There, we use the Professor's newly-invented 'What-Was' Machine to gather all the material I need for my film without using time travel. After congratulating Xanthor one last time on this ingenious plan, we shake hands and say our farewells. As I enter my ship, he begins reciting his time code. However, at the exact moment the time sphere appears, one of Fry and Leela's numerous children runs into the room, catching Xanthor off-guard. His limp beginning to act up again, he stumbles backward into the TARDIZ, inadvertently pulling the time sphere with him. There is a flash of light, and once again, we find ourselves in the year 2950.

But this time we appear on the Planet Express balcony. The TARDIZ begins to slant over the edge, and as if in slow motion, tips over the railing and crashes sickeningly onto the sidewalk below. At that moment, the younger Xanthor on the street rounds the corner, sees it blocking the way, and decides to head in the opposite direction. I suddenly realize that as a result of this occurrence, Xanthor never got hired! As I begin to cogitate this paradox, Farnsworth runs out into the road, shooting wildly into the air, trying to laser whoever it was who dropped this blue intrusion upon his doorstep. Incidently, he catches our time-paradox duplicates, which instantly vaporize. Xanthor and I run into the attic room to wait out the Professor's memory. Then, suddenly it made sense to me!

Every time a paradox is created using the time code, the whole of the universe's timeline is moved forward a notch in the fifth dimension, just as the universe itself moves forward a notch in the forth dimension every time a second passes. Our time paradox duplicates came to their demise much in the same way as we would if regular four-dimensional time were to suddenly speed up abnormally. My machine, on the other hand, which is the physical embodiment of the literary flashback, moves with the timeline. Therefore, I am no longer able to see Xanthor getting hired again simply by using it, by traveling through four-dimensional time. In other words: The flashbacks that occur post-incident will not collimate with flashbacks pre-incident.

Anyway, Farnsworth eventually forgets what he's shooting at and goes indoors again. We sneak down to the street, climb into the TARDIZ and whisk off to the year 3007 to read the time code off Fry's butt, then back to 3002 to give it to Xanthor in the first place, and then a quick stop off in 1997 to watch the premiere of Titanic. I then drop him back where I first picked him up, and speed on down to 2007 to continue writing this post, in which I explain how my point with this example was to demonstrate how I can justify the rewriting of history which occurs during BBS. However, I am very disappointed that a time travel exoneration system so complex was embedded within a script who's nerdiest joke was 'I don't know whether you're waves or particles but you go down smooth'. (Although thumbs-up on the geekiest joke, 'It's so cold, I think my processor is running at peak efficiency'.)

Now, why exactly was history rewritten? Why now? Why did the writers purposely go to this extent? I have a theory, and it applies to the 'Ship as well. A reboot. An attempted reboot, I should say. A change in the flow of time, why, the upcoming movies and episodes now have a whole new platform upon which to base their plots without fear of rehashing the original series! (Which is every renewed and sequel series' ultimate worry, isn't it?) I don't yet see how they plan to go about doing this, but with three movies left to work with, maybe...

Yeah, it's hope. Deal with it.

Speaking of hope, something I used to have a lot of concerning: The 'Ship. Well, what do you know, Kryten was right. The 'Ship has hit the fan. This fan, here. Me. I don't know if it's possible to have an allergic reaction to an emotional sequence, but if it is, I have. Personally, I believe the whole Fry/Leela dynamic was brought in way too soon. It's been two years since TDHAIP, why not leave us guessing? But then there would've been no Lars subplot and the movie would've been entirely different and I wouldn't be writing this sentence, let alone proofreading it. But, regardless, it occurred, and two years following the opera. I'm thinking that maybe the 'Ship was rebooted as well. Remember, any declarations of love during 'Orphan of the Stars' were undoubtedly subject to artistic interpretation on the part of Leela. (E.g., 'To win Leela's heart/With the holophoner's art'.) So Fry has his fifteen minutes of fame, loses it, and goes back to work Monday morning. Leela, of course, realizes how much effort he put into the overelaborated musical, and not realizing the romantic element of his motivation, falls into a deeper friendship with him.

A friendship so deep that he remains perfectly content to simply stand by her side. Until, of course, competition arises. Lars Phil-more. I mean, Lars Fillmore. Corny guy, at first. Then again, he could afford to be corny, couldn't he, since he knew his lines were going to work. But anyhow, now on to something I found highly substantial: Fry's Declaration of Love. Fry explicitly tells Amy (a fanfic parody if I ever saw one) that he loves Leela. Wow. I mean, wow. Fry has never been that forthright concerning the matter. Never. Even in TDHAIP, he said that playing the Holophoner made Leela 'like' him. Sounds like someone's made some cognitive progress... ('To win Leela's heart/With the holophoner's art'...)

As for Lars, I knew who he was the instant I saw him balancing that champagne glass. It became obvious to me right there that Leela was obviously missing something. And I could never really put my finger on what made her think Lars was more mature than Fry, besides the fact that she sees Fry differently. It's like... She has a mental block that prevents her from seeing him as anything but a friend. An annoying friend when he tries anything more. But when he appears physically unrecognizable in the form of an eligible bachelor, well, her mind runs ahead of her, doesn't it? And at the end, when she realizes who/what/how Lars is, it still doesn't occur to her. 'Lars is the only man I'll ever love', she said. What does she say after that? Of course! Hardly anything! So one of three things have either happened or will happen: One, she sees Lars as a different person than Fry, and things will go back to the way they were, Red Dwarf style; or two, her response will be held off until TBWBB. The third possibility is the frightening one (by which I mean Ralph Snart will have to be right in order to canonly vindicate it): Leela was underwritten. Underwritten by the writers. What the heck is she thinking at the funeral? Where are her emotions following this traumatic revelation? What is she hiding?

Maybe I should take up Leela/Bender shipping. They had a nice thing going during the roll call scene...

Ok, moving on, now it seems that my monologue is flowing towards the minor technicality of writing. Let's examine, shall I...

Nibbler talks! Oh boy! Since saving the universe from being torn apart seems to be a high priority on his list, this plot device seems acceptable to me. If the entire series is in fact being rebooted, making Nibbler free to talk permanently sounds like a fascinating idea, so long as an explanation is eventually given for him no longer needing to remain undercover. But there's one little flaw that was made during the executing of this scheme... Leela's reaction! Her poop-producing, frolicking, 'Dumbest Pet in Show' of seven years suddenly turns out to be the commander of a fleet of Kitten-class battle cruisers and all she says is a 'Nibbler? You can talk?' He knows more about space-time physics than the Professor and all that's said is... Well, nothing, really. That's all that follows, nothing. He can shoot lasers out of his third eye. Nothing? Eh. Eh eh eh.

Next, music. Lack of orchestra, I'm told. Sadly, it showed. The musical numbers, although perfectly placed in relation to the story, lack the traditional instrumental diversity I've come to expect. Mind you, they were hilarious, especially Santa's tap dancing and the whole Toy Shop Goes to War bit. Also, the Scott Walker accompaniment during Lars' journey to the future was close to being tantamount to LH's 'Baby Love Child' scene. Close, mind you. LH was more happy. Here I've still yet to figure out how I'm supposed to be feeling, although I have slight suspicions that Charles de Gaulle was inserted into the plot just for that gag.

Finally, to wrap up, a miscellany of miscellaneousness. The plot flowed at the speed of an episode, except it went on longer. I wonder if some people think it got old. The secondary characters were placed well, although there were a few groaners placed now and then. Great Leela/Bender shipping comraderie in the beginning. Touching to see Santa as an ally. Oh, and the most realistic space battle I've seen ever since The Pirkinning. Al Gore had good placement (something I'd never thought I'd say.) Oh, the multifaceted nature of the time code! So far I've found three (four to be technical) symmetries in it, a binary count from one to six, Lars' name and a physical description of Leela ('one eye face').

Ooo, second thoughts! Post scripts! Speaking of the time code... How can simply saying it enable the sphere? A good bit of thought later, I've gotten an idea. All science fiction assumes that the universe actually takes up space, literally. Some stories like The Matrix describe how life is really a simulation. But still, in the end, the universe itself is real. But what if, in Futurama, the universe is in fact a massive computer program? Living creatures are the variables... The Nibblonians are the spyware blocker... The Galactic Entity is the CPU... And the time code is a makeshift hack. That's right, a hack! It takes the universe's machine code and twists it to do something that was not originally intended. Now, it's a very good hack, enabling paradox-correcting time travel, but it's still a hack, and if one little line of hexadecimal doesn't line up right during one particular occasion of it's use, the program crashes. I'm sure there are programmers here on PEEL who know what I'm talking about. And sure, this idea raises the question of 'What is this program running on', but in the end, isn't that identical to the current question of 'Where is the universe located'?

It's also interesting to note that if we allow for the Big Brain in WoF to have developed a Fry-specific version of the same type of time travel, it would explain why Nibbler's shadow only appears in the cryogenics lab during the first few seasons.

And now that I've brought this up again, I think I deserve a chance to speak of another few gripes I have. (Please don't hit me!)

One: Why time travel in the first film? Since that's the zenith of science fiction concepts, why not wait until the very end to bring it up? The reboot theory again? Because they have even more complex concepts ahead? Or have they fallen into the RTD syndrome, where they're gonna keep getting grander and grander until they hit the the inevitable stopping block and sink down into a flaming heap? I doubt this because the movies were written as one block and not separately, but we still can't tell, can we...

*sigh*

These last notes should really go in the Goof Thread, but then again, half of this post already doesn't belong here, so why not:

Why did Nibbler sneak away when the scammers started scrunging Fry? Did he know that the code existed?
Why was the Nimbus in orbit around Earth, yet in the next scene still approaching it?
Why were the pupils of the frozen auto-destructing Bender not red and square spirals in his final scene?
Why were Bender's pupils not red and square spirals when he was commenting on Fry's temporal escape in the shower room?
Why does Amy briefly have three arms on the Nude Beach Planet?
Why does Leela put her hand on Fry's butt when she's hiding behind him to stay away from the Nibblonian fleet?

Intellectual nourishment, hmm?


Poverty, stole your golden shoes...
It didn't steal your laughter.
And heartache came to visit me,
but I knew it wasn't ever after...
We will fight,
not out of spite;
For someone must stand up for what's right;
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice,
there ours shall go singing...

Burn!  tongue

I'll elaborate more on what I was trying to say later... Right now I was just popping in and couldn't resist the title...  wink

Ralph Snart

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« Reply #1 on: 12-11-2007 18:26 »

 
Quote
And I could never really put my finger on what made her think Lars was more mature than Fry, besides the fact that she sees Fry differently. It's like... She has a mental block that prevents her from seeing him as anything but a friend. An annoying friend when he tries anything more...

...The third possibility is the frightening one (by which I mean Ralph Snart will have to be right in order to canonly vindicate it): Leela was underwritten. Underwritten by the writers. What the heck is she thinking at the funeral? Where are her emotions following this traumatic revelation? What is she hiding?

Leela has increasingly become something of an unsympathic character to me over the years.  She says "No" to dates with Fry, yet still gives him mixed messages.  The on-the-lips kiss at the end of TWoF?  The arms around each other (with Zoidberg in the middle) at the end of L&R.  The 'date' she promises him at the end of Parabox?  She goes to Zoidberg to speak of her feelings about Fry, but never talks to Fry.

Leela is increasingly shallow on an emotional level.  She's only interested in 'important' people.  The only way that Lars knew how to approach her was because he has seen what Leela likes from his past with her. 

Compare Leela with the 'shallow' Amy.  Amy is in love with a non-important alien.  She sees what's inside the person, not the exterior which Leela focuses on.  Amy could (and has) have anybody in the galaxy.  Incredibly rich, she could have any movie star she could want, but settles for Kif.

No, Leela sees Fry as a friend but more importantly to her, she won't give him a chance because he's her backup - a safeguy.  When she's lonely, there's Fry to be by her side.  When she needs a ego-boost, there's Fry. 

So for a guy who is so important to her, she treats him very badly.  She yells at him and immediately thinks the worst where he's concerned.  The worst part of her is being callously cruel to him - she absolutely enjoys rubbing her current boyfriend in Fry's face.  Adlai and Chaz immediately come to mind.  Chaz is "very important", yet when that date falls apart, who does she go back to for an ego boost?  Yeah, Fry.  When she dates Adlai, she tells Fry that "I deserve to date a guy who's not crummy".  So that tells Fry he's "too crummy" to date, but Okay to run back to when that relationship falls apart.

When she lays dying in a hospital bed, who is by her side?  Adlai?  Zapp?  Chaz?  Alkazar?  No.  The only person in the world who gives two shits about her.  Fry.  What did his heroic gestuer get him?  A new spleen and nothing else.  And before anybody says anything, Leela has never put her life at risk for anybody - much less Fry.  I can see the self-centered witch standing by as Fry gets killed, only to realize that he was the only real friend she had in the world.

No, Leela has now become the most selfish, self-centered, cruel, manipulating character ever to evolve in the Groening universe.

Yeah, I'm in the minority and will be hated by the shippers.  Well, as they say in Poland:  Tough Shitski.

Leela thinks she can do better for herself than Fry?  I think it should the other way around - Fry can do better for himself than the purple-haired, nagging freak of nature.


 
Quote
Oh, and the most realistic space battle I've seen ever since The Pirkinning.

Sorry Xan, but the Star Wreck battle was infinitely better than BBS's final space battle.  The final battle between Pirk and Festerbester is the absolute best space battle ever.  The massively outgunned and overpowered Potkustart making its suicide run against the enemy's flagship will always be etched in my mind.

Nothing but nothing can ever top the scene of the crippled C.P.P Potkustart crashing into the Excavator as the C.P.P Kalinka fires her last torpedoes at the bridge of the Excavator.

Okay you cunts, let's see what you can do now.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #2 on: 12-11-2007 18:35 »

Pirkinning pissed me off. Talk about a depressing ending...  smile

"FUKOOOOVVVVV!!!"
"Oops..." *asplode*

Ralph, I can see we're going to go around in circles over this idea. You're right, but you're wrong at the same time. The way I see it; Leela has emotional problems that prevents her from forming a deep bond with Fry for any long period of time, on top of which she has a lingering view of him as a stupid kid. It's an image that'll be hard for Fry to shake off simply because first impressions count for so much. She has shown emotional attachment to him, though, but she has a problem acknowledging that because she needs security. She gravitates toward "strong" men, that much is obvious. If she can get over that need for security she'll come out of her shell toward Fry.

The question is whether she's worth the effort he puts into her. You say no. I say maybe it's worth trying a bit longer, because she's proven she can be an incredibly sensitive woman if she lets her guard down. Though, that said, I wouldn't blame Fry for giving up. At some point you have to say enough is enough, and pursuing emotionally damaged people is pointless if they refuse to fix themselves.
coldangel

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« Reply #3 on: 12-11-2007 18:49 »

Nice title Xanfor, you dag.  smile
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #4 on: 12-11-2007 19:07 »
« Last Edit on: 12-11-2007 19:07 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Archonix:

Pirkinning pissed me off. Talk about a depressing ending...      smile

"FUKOOOOVVVVV!!!"
"Oops..." *asplode*

That's the way in the Wreck universe.  BTW, "Lost Contact" had a depressing ending yet they followed it with "In The Pirkinning".

Fear not - I have it from the Emperor himself, Samuli Torssonen, that after "Iron Sky" is released, James B. Pirk will command again.  And yes, he will aided and abbetted by Dwarf and Info.  And yes, Sergey Fukov will be there to torment Pirk.

   
Quote
Ralph, I can see we're going to go around in circles over this idea. You're right, but you're wrong at the same time.

Talk about being on both sides of the fence...

   
Quote
The question is whether she's worth the effort he puts into her. You say no.

On the nose.  Damned right.  The 'chase' makes Fry look weak and pathetic and makes Leela look uncaring and cruel.

   
Quote
I say maybe it's worth trying a bit longer, because she's proven she can be an incredibly sensitive woman if she lets her guard down. Though, that said, I wouldn't blame Fry for giving up. At some point you have to say enough is enough, and pursuing emotionally damaged people is pointless if they refuse to fix themselves.

Time for him to say - "You're a lost cause," and chase after other women.  How will Leela react?  I have an answer for you:  She'll have to intervene, only because she needs "to protect Fry from himself".  Remember I Dated a Robot?  Fry was happy - nobody was being harmed (except for the heavy-handed "message" that downloading is wrong) but Leela still had to get involved.  Why?  Because subconsiously Leela doesn't want Fry to be involved with anybody other than herself.

We won't see it, but I'd like to see Fry get a decent girlfriend and see how well Leela handles it.  I'd like to see her come to realization how important the 'stupid kid' is to her and watch her chase after him for a while.

Ralph 'awaiting TBWaBB' Snart

Okay you cunts, let's see what you can do now.
coldangel

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« Reply #5 on: 12-11-2007 19:26 »

I agree with that, Ralph. It would be very interesting to see the strong-willed aloof uncaring female suddenly realize that she's been just a little bit too strong-willed, aloof, and uncaring.

(That males are so frequently depicted as being the desperate fools crawling around after women like subserviant dogs actually begins to rub me up the wrong way... it's a bit on the sexist side. There, I said it - Sexist. Men are being discriminated against in this female-centric world.)
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #6 on: 12-11-2007 19:36 »

I don't disagree, I just don't think it's fair to label her as so venal. She's damaged and needs sympathy.

And a good kick in the pants.

But mostly sympathy.
Frisco17

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« Reply #7 on: 12-11-2007 22:08 »

I agree with Archonix. She can definatly be a jerk sometimes but I can understand why she acts the way she does because of the way her life went among other things. I think it's kind of a self defense mechanism.

Now to go plot my vengence at not being included in the title.
bend_her

Professor
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« Reply #8 on: 12-12-2007 02:15 »

I don't see Leela intervening in Fry's relationship with the Liu-bots as her being jealous, seems to me that's more like her expressing her desire to boss people around.

As for the desperate fools bit: meh. I'll just sit here in the corner and watch the world float by.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #9 on: 12-12-2007 05:22 »

Robosexuality is wrong, folks. Dead wrong.
coldangel

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« Reply #10 on: 12-12-2007 05:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
because of the way her life went among other things. I think it's kind of a self defense mechanism.

Baloney. We could all use events in our lives as excuses for being arseholes. Hell, I've had a complete bastard of a life up to this point, but I'm not even going to go into it because no event and no person is ever responsible for who you are except you yourself.

I think people who say "I am the way I am because this thing happened to me" are the most useless pissweak lumps of wasted organic matter ever to sully this sacred Earth.

You are what you make of yourself.

I mean, if I'd let my upbringing and past experiences shape the person I am today, I'd probably be some creepy hermit freak who skulks around in a coat collecting knives, never going outside, muttering against society... with no friends... obsessing over sci-fi shows... ah fuck... I really just ruined my own argument there, didn't I?   hmpf

Ralph Snart

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« Reply #11 on: 12-12-2007 07:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Archonix:

Robosexuality is wrong, folks. Dead wrong.


Hahahahahahahahaha.

There's a fan fic on Futurama Madhouse by Sophie Fenwick that has Fry and Bender becoming a Robosexual couple.   puke

There's a perverse side of me that enjoyed that story.  hmpf

Now to continue the Shipper tradition. 

Kirk/Spock is played out.

Now it's time for Janeway/Seven pics:



Okay you cunts, let's see what you can do now.
jle1993

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #12 on: 12-12-2007 12:05 »
« Last Edit on: 12-12-2007 12:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
I mean, if I'd let my upbringing and past experiences shape the person I am today, I'd probably be some creepy hermit freak who skulks around in a coat collecting knives, never going outside, muttering against society... with no friends... obsessing over sci-fi shows... ah fuck... I really just ruined my own argument there, didn't I?     hmpf

*laughs* oh Coldangel, never change, *is giggling*

And Xanfor, darling thanks *hugs tight* My letters are in the title, I feel special *kisses cheek and puts down*

As for Leela, she maybe a hot cyclops, but if she doesn't love Fry after the big opera, and she still likes men (ick Lars, what a *censored*), then I think it's time for Fry to try and get a decent girlfriend and see how Miss Goody-OneEye deals with it.

She had a bad upbringing, probably worse then we give credit for, but her life in the present is better. Fry found her parents for her, Fry risked his life for her, he gave up something that improved him for her, he wrote a flipping opera for her, and hasn't given up. Surely she can see that he deserves a chance? Come on, her one eye may cause depth perception problems, but when it comes to emotions her heart leaves her blind. I'm sorry to say this, I've gone from respecting her to realizing she's a shallow b*tch with a shriveled heart.

bend_her

Professor
*
« Reply #13 on: 12-12-2007 12:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1: ah fuck... I really just ruined my own argument there, didn't I?    hmpf
Yes, yes you have  smile But seriously, our minds are quite malleable, and a good chunk of people who've been scarred by previous experiences don't realize the effect they've had on their lives. It doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on the person.

Ralph, please excuse my reduced-TV lifestyle, but Janeway? Seven? Ah, wtf, they're much better than Kirk/Spock!
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #14 on: 12-12-2007 12:25 »

Yippe-ki-yaaaa Muther Hubbard!

Another convertee to the Church of Anti-Leela.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #15 on: 12-12-2007 12:28 »
« Last Edit on: 12-12-2007 12:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by bend_her:
 
Ralph, please excuse my reduced-TV lifestyle, but Janeway? Seven? Ah, wtf, they're much better than Kirk/Spock!

Actually at one point Paramount was going to make Janeway and Seven the first gay couple in the Trek universe but chickened out at the last minute.


(OOPS!  PEEL ate my last post, then regurgitated it later.  I didn't mean to double-post.)
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If Homer Simpson and Al Bundy had a kid, it would be me.  Ralph Snart - anti-shipper and Leela-hater.
jle1993

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #16 on: 12-12-2007 12:32 »
« Last Edit on: 12-12-2007 12:32 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
Yippe-ki-yaaaa Muther Hubbard!

Another convertee to the Church of Anti-Leela.

Only because my common sense and logic refuse to let me support her when she's treating Fry so badly. I may not find the guy all that 'suitable', but hell, any girl who likes guys would probably give him a chance after everything he's done, Leela's just being stubborn and bitchy and someone should straighten her out. Maybe have Amy slap some sense into her, and Leela shocked to realise the truth now react and go into a mental breakdown while Fry is living it up with some nice girl in Ibiza.

Sedna

Bending Unit
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« Reply #17 on: 12-12-2007 12:41 »

 
Quote
There's a fan fic on Futurama Madhouse by Sophie Fenwick that has Fry and Bender becoming a Robosexual couple.
I know which one you're talking about, and to this day I can't figure out if it was satire or not there.  I mean, the whole fic was sort of alternate-universe dramatic... was she serious?

She's an excellent artist, though. 
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
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« Reply #18 on: 12-12-2007 19:07 »
« Last Edit on: 12-12-2007 19:07 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by jle1993:
As for Leela, she maybe a hot cyclops, but if she doesn't love Fry after the big opera, and she still likes men (ick Lars, what a *censored*), then I think it's time for Fry to try and get a decent girlfriend and see how Miss Goody-OneEye deals with it.

She had a bad upbringing, probably worse then we give credit for, but her life in the present is better. Fry found her parents for her, Fry risked his life for her, he gave up something that improved him for her, he wrote a flipping opera for her, and hasn't given up. Surely she can see that he deserves a chance? Come on, her one eye may cause depth perception problems, but when it comes to emotions her heart leaves her blind. I'm sorry to say this, I've gone from respecting her to realizing she's a shallow b*tch with a shriveled heart.

I really want to see how Leela would deal with Fry having a decent girlfriend. She either needs to give Fry a chance or Fry should realize that she's a lost cause. I never really like Leela in the first place but I was alwys like "What ever some day she'll get over her ealier life and see the sweet guy that's right in front of her. Fry's done so much." If I had a guy like that in my life I would date him no matter how mature he was as long as he wasn't an utter dickwad which is exactly what Leela goes after.

Chaz- the mayors aide who never let anyone forget it.
Adalai- doctor who only cared about looks.
Zapp- famous DOOP capt, she liked him before she found out that he was a sex crazed jackass.
Doug- don't know what he did but she dumped him as soon as he revealed his lizard tounge. Lars- head feeder, Fry in 12 years, corny pick up lines.
Alkazar- another cyclops but a dick, she dumped him because of multiple brides, was still going to marry him though he was a jerk, though she did belive that she was the lay cyclops alien. I probably missed alot.
Sean- jazz noodler, don't know much else but way described much like Fry- uneducated, and unambitious.

Then there is the "no body" Fry- sweet, caring, loyal, immature, delivery boy, from the "Stupid Ages", a little slow, but he's always there for her. He found her parents, but she doesn't care she only cares about looks and status.

I don't care how she grew up, because that's no excuse. I never really had friends and no one has really liked me, and I've been teased and crap for being different but you know what? I still know a good thing when I see it. It's ridiculous to me to blame how you act on how you grew up. I don't let my crappy life effect how I am. With the way my life has gone you'd think that I'd be withdrawn and sad/gothic like but I'm not I'm an outgoing cheerful preson. I wont effect you unless you let it.

I have officially lost where I was going. I just want Fry to get a good girlfriend who actally likes him, and I'd love to see how Leela reacts to that. She'd probably try to break them up after she realizes how much she needs Fry. There can only be so much that he can take. I can't believe that he's taken 7 years of this. If the opera didn't open Leela's eyes what will. you can say that Lars dide but I don't think that's true because Lars really wasn't Fry.
coldangel

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« Reply #19 on: 12-12-2007 19:41 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
Janeway/Seven pics:

Much much much much... much better!   big grin


 
Quote
Originally posted by jle1993:
  *laughs* oh Coldangel, never change, *is giggling*

Perish the thought.  smile


 
Quote
Originally posted by bend_her:
It doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on the person.

Everything reflects poorly on every person. Even good things.
km73

Space Pope
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« Reply #20 on: 12-12-2007 19:49 »

The problem is that you're all blaming Leela for something which is essentially a writers decision. She doesn't get with Fry/'see' him for what he is/accept his advances simply because the decision was made (probably a long time ago) to not have her do so yet, no matter how many sweet things he does for her. As for her past, although she grew up in an orphanarium and, yes, she was teased about her eye, I never felt that that was enough to justify calling her "emotionally damaged" or whatever. I understand that she felt inadequate, but she has certainly proven that she can take care of herself. My point being that I never really thought that people discussing her should use the "troubled past" excuse as an argument for why she won't accept Fry and why she's attracted to jerks.
coldangel

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« Reply #21 on: 12-12-2007 19:57 »

That's a bit existential km73, saying it's not the character's fault that the writers made her act a certain way. She doesn't actually exist   tongue , so whatever the writers make of her is what she is.
km73

Space Pope
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« Reply #22 on: 12-12-2007 20:13 »

...Yeah, I guess my point was that sometimes I think people just take it too personally that she keeps rejecting Fry. I'm not really one to say "it's just a show", I understand the desire to analyze things, but once in a while it just seems that when someone really starts to hate a character for something it may be helpful to remember that the writers will have them do what they want.
Otherwise I have no idea where I was going with that.
coldangel

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« Reply #23 on: 12-12-2007 20:35 »

It is just a show though.
Frisco17

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« Reply #24 on: 12-12-2007 22:43 »
« Last Edit on: 12-12-2007 22:43 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:

I think people who say "I am the way I am because this thing happened to me" are the most useless pissweak lumps of wasted organic matter ever to sully this sacred Earth.

You are what you make of yourself.

Oh I agree that kinda thing isn't an excuse for being an asshole. That's like people who kill, rob and rape people saying that it's their upbringing that makes them that way. (I live near Philly so I hear that alot.) Most of the time what you do is vasty more important than why you do it. I wasn't agreeing with or defending they way Leela acts sometimes, I was just offering a theory as to why she does.

My other theory is that the writers are trying to stretch this out as long as they can. The end result is that Leela ends up being a kind of a jerk so they can milk the drama.
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
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« Reply #25 on: 12-12-2007 23:00 »

What's with all the star trek shippy pictures?  I thought this was supposed to be a FUTURAMA thread.


And just in time for the holidays, a shippy pic from deviant art by yume93.
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
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« Reply #26 on: 12-12-2007 23:20 »
« Last Edit on: 12-12-2007 23:20 »

Look at the last thread. We know this is a Futurama board but it's the shippy thread adn any ship goes: Kirk/Spock, Janeway/Seven, Picard/Who ever the hell he likes. Zapp/Trannies, Fry/Bender, Leela/Zoidberg. Ugh that last one just made me puke.   puke

Cute picture. big grin
bend_her

Professor
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« Reply #27 on: 12-13-2007 03:02 »

Well I have no clue if you're being serious or flippant, Coldy, but my take is that bad experiences when you're growing up tend to distort perception. In other words, Leela doesn't realize what she's doing to Fry. By that notion, though, such a person would not know that they're 'different', so the event of them citing their past as an excuse for current weaknesses never comes up. Or something like that.

I agree with Bendersfan, that's the kind of picture we should be seeing more of in the Ship thread.

*reaches for insulin*
Decapodian

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #28 on: 12-13-2007 05:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bendersfan1221:
 Leela/Zoidberg. Ugh that last one just made me puke.    puke
 

You can thank me for bringing that one up. The Janeway/Seven picture? Nice. So much more easier on the eyes then the Kirk/Spock thing.

Twilight is quite possibly the worst popular book ever written.
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
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« Reply #29 on: 12-13-2007 06:45 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Decapodian:
 You can thank me for bringing that one up. The Janeway/Seven picture? Nice. So much more easier on the eyes then the Kirk/Spock thing.

Thank you for making me throw up everything that I've had to eat in the past week. I was used to the Spirk stuff, now because I havrn't seen Voyager (Right one right?) I can't discuss with you guys if you start to discuss that stuff.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #30 on: 12-13-2007 11:43 »

although the Kirk/Spock stuff is something made up by some deviiant fans, the Janeway/Seven relationship was going to Trek's first homosexual relationship.  Kate Mulgrew (Janeway) was the main person pushing for that.  She was angry when the people at Paramount suddenly abandoned that path, fearing losing (more) viewers (ratings were dropping each week).  Even though the shocking storyline may have been accepted by people on the coasts, it wouldn't fly with middle-America.  The romantic storyline was rewritten during the last season to have Seven ride off into the sunset with Chakoty.

But I shall refrain from placing more slash pics on this thread.  The shock value of Brokeback Trek is over.
coldangel

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« Reply #31 on: 12-13-2007 18:23 »

Ralph - I didn't know they were going to do that. Seems a real shame that they chickened out, and not just because I like to see girl-on-girl action; it would have been a positive step forward for the gay community.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #32 on: 12-13-2007 18:55 »
« Last Edit on: 12-13-2007 18:55 »

There's an advantage to being a true Trek geek.  Since TNG, there has been pressure placed on Paramount to introduce an obvious gay character.  They came close with an episode where Riker fell in love with a woman from a planet where everybody was asexual and any sexual contact was considered unnatural.  Frakes wanted the person to be a male instead of a female - scenes were shot but Paramount came down and said no to the male alien and decreed that it be changed to a female.

When Voyager came out there was speculation that a gay character would be introduced.  Originally it was to be a nurse.  I had to write to Paramaount and voice my displeasure.  All gay characters up to that time were either nurses or hairdressers.  There is no reason why a gay character can't be an engineer, a Commanding Officer or a janitor.

I'm straight and not a member of the GLAAD but I believe everybody should be able to live their lives anyway they desire as long as children and farm animals aren't involvled.

I've been involved in several altercations with people who wanted to attack gays.  When I wrestled, at least one-quarter of the roster was gay.  I'm secure enough with myself to not be intimidated or uncomfortable around them.  One thing about me - I have rarely backed down from fights and can handle myself better than most (just ask the guy who broke my nose and cracked my suborbital socket 3 weeks ago.   smile)

However, the people at Paramount know what sells and doesn't sell.  A gay charcater on a sitcom is one thing, a gay character on a show like Star Trek is different.  Homosexuality won't fly in middle America and most other countries.  Hollywood now depends on revenue from foriegn countries.  Sad to say, most other countries aren't as progressive about out of the closet gays as the US and EU.

So that's why we haven't seen an obvious gay character in the Trek universe - yet.
coldangel

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« Reply #33 on: 12-13-2007 19:00 »
« Last Edit on: 12-13-2007 19:00 by coldangel_1 »

So have you seen any of Torchwood, Ralph?
Basically every character is bi.
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
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« Reply #34 on: 12-13-2007 19:05 »

So.. Shipping in the new movie.

The big one:
Fry/Leela
Okay, we KNOW Fry/Leela are going together.  We know they're perfect for each other, Fry knows it, now Leela knows it (and just gave him a kiss on the cheek?!).  I didn't think the writers were dragging it on too much in the show, but now after seeing the movie, I am getting kind of tired of it.  Get them together already! 

Though I have to say I loved the moment when they were dining at Elzars and balancing the glasses and laughing.  Such a F/L thing to do.

Hermes/Labarbara
Seeing as how Labarbara is so quick to ditch Hermes for Slim when he loses his body... I'm afraid this ship was never as deep and loving as I originally thought...  Does anyone prefer Slim/Labarbara over Hermes/Labarbara?

Amy/Kif
Glad they had one tiny mention that they were dating I guess.  I do love A/K.

And now a shippy FUTURAMA pic to tie it all up:

Again found on deviantart.  By dragonnan
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #35 on: 12-13-2007 19:10 »

fryandlemon, as you may not be aware - that's actually a Futuramaified version of a Cowboy Bebop picture that originally had Spike and Julia in Fry and Leela's places.
And if you haven't seen Cowboy Bebop, then I suggest you have some DVDs to hire.

And now, for no raisen,
WILLIAM SHATNER SEX TOY!!!

fryandlemon

Bending Unit
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« Reply #36 on: 12-13-2007 19:15 »
« Last Edit on: 12-13-2007 19:15 »

Yeah i knew.. the artist stated so themself with a link in the comments..

Oh no... not another star trek picture...     no no    cry


there we go... Done by the amazing Femjesse.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #37 on: 12-13-2007 19:22 »
« Last Edit on: 12-13-2007 19:22 »

SHATNER: I don't know why, but I feel really good for some reason.

Babylon 5 had the lesbian relationship thing going years ago. *shrug*

Aaaanyway, I don't know why you lot keep saying Lars isn't Fry. He is! He's Fry after a few years of living - we get to see the end result of that without seeing the intervening years and it might be tempting to say he's a different person, but he's still Fry.

To compare: most people would say I'm a different person now to who I was when I was 19 and in a lot of ways they'd be right but, for the life of me, I can't identify a single point where I stopped being that one person and started being another. If you had spent the entire time with me you'd have a hard time identifying that point where I stopped being "Graham Teen" and became "Graham Freak" or whatever you might care to call me. Though my hair did fall out...   smile

So maybe "Lars" isn't quite how we'd want him to be. He's been shaped by his life in the 21st century. Fry in the 31st century will mature in a different way and be a different person too after a few years years - he won't be the Fry we know now. In both cases, though, it's simply unfair to say "that isn't Fry" because, as far as Fry is concerned, he is.

And so it goes.

ETA: Doesn't Fry look just a bit like Zach Braff in that picture?
km73

Space Pope
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« Reply #38 on: 12-13-2007 19:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
...it wouldn't fly with middle-America.

It won't play in Peoria?

The Trek pictures make baby Jesus cry.  cry
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
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« Reply #39 on: 12-13-2007 19:39 »
« Last Edit on: 12-13-2007 19:39 »

 
Quote
Fry in the 31st century will mature in a different way and be a different person too after a few years years - he won't be the Fry we know now.
I got the feeling that the Fry in the 31st century already matured into "lars" at the end of the film.  21st century Fry had to be mature and say goodbye to Leela, Fry of the 31st century was saying goodbye to Leela... I thought the parallel was obvious.  Fry in the next movie is Lars, only with more hair..
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