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Author Topic: We Ship for Free Anywhere In the Galaxy! Shipper Thread V  (Read 28114 times)
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Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #400 on: 08-14-2007 22:44 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by HipNoJoe:
...And he traded it away for the satisfaction of finding out if Leela would love him for himself. Wow. I caved in to a girl who I knew would never come close to being my "dreamgirl" yet Fry turns down the sole object of his desire for a little chunk of self esteem. I know this is well-trod ground here, but I can't watch this episode or even see a framegrab from it without dwelling on this moment of choice.

I think that Fry gave up the worms because it felt almost as if he "cheated" his way to Leela's heart. It wasn't his raw brains and brawns that she fell in love with. It was his parasites. And, I'm sure that Fry didn't like how Leela was achieved so easily with no chase. How he won Leela's heart with the parasites would be like winning a trophy from a competition you won, but you only won it because you had a handicap that gave you an advantage against all the other competitors who didn't have that handicap. The prize won just wouldn't be true.

HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #401 on: 08-15-2007 00:11 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 00:11 »

Sure, I can see that. I could think myself into a similar point of view and type the same thing from the cool solitude of the computer room, but put in Fry's situation, face to face with the girl of my dreams...holding hands...staring into her eye(s)...listening to her saying anything to me sexfully...being invited to her bedroom...

Nope, I'd be too weak to pull back. I might pause at the "what you've become" line, but just long enough to put it out of my mind and dive back in.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #402 on: 08-15-2007 00:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

quote:
----------------
Originally posted by Ride The Walrus:
And on Leela's shallowness... Did she ever think about Fry in parasites lost? No. She sabotaged the plan the others had to help him so that he would continue being someone who pleased her. Shallow was a poor choice of words. She didn't even think about the fact that the worms were robbing Fry of his humanity. She was a little selfish.
----------------

Did the other PE staff think of Fry?  No.  They planned to remove the worms (which were a beneficial parasite) without consulting him.  Granted, the Professor feared the worms would then be warned, but still, once they found out that the worms were not harmful, they should have had at least a few second thoughts about removing them.

And the worms were "robbing him of his humanity" ...how?  Were they controlling Fry's actions?  Were they taking over his mind or directing his thoughts?  Did they push him along the continuum of Evil and Good - in either direction?

The only way they influenced his behavior is giving him a craving to eat metal (and that is just a craving to which it is still his decision whether or not to respond).  I see no evidence that the worms did anything to what we usually mean when we say "humanity" - that is, his mind, his self-will, or his moral choice.  To say that they did is innaccurate and sensationalistic.

The brain slugs interfere with their hosts' humanity.  The worms do not.  Fry had other beings living inside him, you say? So what?  We all do - bacteria that perform vital functions in our bodies.  Each and every cell we have supports a mitochondrium - an alien creature.

But my biggest argument with your post is

quote:
----------------
She sabotaged the plan the others had to help him so that he would continue being someone who pleased her.
----------------

BZZZZT! WRONG! She did no such thing.  All the time she was with him all day, she knew that the worms were making him smarter, healthier, more muscular (she knew they were healing him, and she's smart enough to make the connection when he starts using $20 words and beating up Sals).  But she did not think of calling off the others' mission, even though she was impressed with his feats.

It was not until she asked him why he was doing these things, and he confessed his love, and said he'd realized it lately (since the worms) that Leela took action.

It was not to preserve a Fry that pleased her.  She'd had a Fry that pleased her all day. It was to preserve a Fry who realized he loved her (and who was clearly happy about knowing it).

Selfish?  Perhaps a little.  But not to the extent you make out.

As for her reaction...well, time for another shameless plug:

The Other Side of Parasites

Now, I gotta go prove that (despite rumors to the contrary) I am not as old as the Professor.  i.e., I gotta go help someone move their stuff...joy.

But you may consider yourself bitch-slapped.

Shiny aka "The Shippinator"

       
Quote
Originally posted by TomAllen:

I've kind of narrowed it down to a more practical question.

Suppose you could get an injection that made you smarter and wiser. Maybe you get worms, maybe you get hormones, I don't care.

If you accept such a treatment, are you still you? Are you you, but, like, you++? Or does the treatment alter you so much that you're somebody else?

Myself, I think you're still you, you just took a cheap way to greatness. The rest of us have to improve ourselves, if we choose to, by long, hard work.

I _think_ that's the moral of Parasites Lost. Fry could have taken the easy route; Leela was still seduced from before. But he wanted to be loved as Fry, not Fry++.

This episode is one of the many I hold out as examples that Fry is much wiser, and more heroic, than we think he is.

More than that, "Parasites Lost" is, IMHO, one of the best (strictly speaking) science fiction episodes of Futurama, and for that matter, of any program, of the last twenty years. How do we humans feel about symbiosis? How do we define ourselves -- purely genetically, or by our interactions with other lifeforms? What are the ethical ramifications if Fry had decided to keep the worms, or Leela to have let them be destroyed?

I have vague feelings, but not any grand answers. That's why I love this episode. PL doesn't present any easy answers -- just the feelings and beliefs of its characters.

And that's great science fiction. "Here's a scientific question. Here's how our characters answer it. Now what would you do?"

       
Quote
Originally posted by Ride The Walrus:

quote:
----------------
Originally posted by Shiny:
 
But you may consider yourself bitch-slapped.

----------------

That was one of the best thought out bitch slaps I have ever recieved. I did enjoy it.

I do get a bit overdramatic, but it isn't completely without reasoning. Lets look at a couple of things. I agree the worms were beneficial parasites. However I have a fervent belief that these benefits are temporary. I have two reasons to believe this. First, it was Farnsworth who insisted that Fry's worms be removed. I think Farnsworth is a genius who hides behind a cloak of senility and madness so he can enjoy his vast fortune and create his atomic monsters in peace. (He basically created the universe.) So who would know better as to why the worms needed to be removed? Secondly, I was looking at worm-ridden Fry in the long term. Think carefully about this... who would you become if you were honed from the inside into a perfect being? Would you be the greatest person you could be? Or would you merely become an instrument of your own abilities? It was too early for Fry to lose all his imperfections, but eventually they would have been gone, leaving only his intention remaining. (Like a set of directions). Fry's brain would have become a computer, able to access vast amounts of data at once and probably giving him eidetic recall. Over many years this would cause a conflict which would blur the lines between "the correct course of action" and "the right thing to do". (Remember, the parasites do what they do in the interest of self-preservation, so I have no doubt that in time this would have become Fry's overriding motivation.) His body would have become the embodiment of perfection. In the future, it would have become difficult for him to relate to physical imperfection at any level. His life would have definetely been lengthened, forcing him to watch his loved ones age and die before him. I could go on at great lengths, (as I most likely have already), about the negative long-term effects of the parasites. But in the end one stands out in my mind the most. No matter how much power the worms put at Fry's disposal, they would never be able to rid him of the realization and the doubt that perhaps no one around him loved him for who he was. He would never know if any of his friends were still there simply because he'd become this perfect man. Fry would lose his humanity because, by maintaining his inner collective, he'd lose touch with the outer collective; other people. Fry is the dumbest genius in the universe, and that's why he got rid of his own worms.

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, though. I was trying to be as easy as I could on Leela, but I still came a across as a bit harsh. She loves Fry, so there's no reason why she would want him to realize his inner potential. But if she just thought about it for a bit longer... (Strange that Leela got suddenly so impulsive when it came to Fry, huh?)... she would have realized that it was kinder to allow Fry to improve naturally, as opposed to being bio-reengineered by parasites.

       
Quote
Originally posted by HopelessShipper:

I completely agree with your analysis RTW. But one must ask if this thought poped into Fry's mind. (Please don't mistake that as saying Fry is stupid.)

As unpopular as it may make me, I don't blame Fry (or Leela) on the Parasites Lost failure. I think we are expecting too much of the one eyed toboggan  to think that the only reason she stoped the operation was because Fry was able to admit that he loved her. It's no coincidence that Fry became the man of her dreams. On the flip side Fry gets a equal amount of blame due to the way he acted after getting back to apartment 1I.

This episode is a real can of worms. Analysis of it depends on how you watch it. The first time I wanted to blame Leela, second Fry and now I have managed to make peace with my flimsy excuse of it's no ones fault.

Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #403 on: 08-15-2007 00:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by HipNoJoe:
Sure, I can see that. I could think myself into a similar point of view and type the same thing from the cool solitude of the computer room, but put in Fry's situation, face to face with the girl of my dreams...holding hands...staring into her eye(s)...listening to her saying anything to me sexfully...being invited to her bedroom...

Well, Fry's not like you. Zapp Brannigan lusts her. Fry loves her. Unlike Zapp, Fry's not giving it his all only to get inside her pants (though, given the chance, if she accepts, he'd go all the way).
HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #404 on: 08-15-2007 00:41 »

Comparing me to Zapp? Please, you give Zapp too little credit! Seriously, any guy, Zapp, Fry, any guy would succumb to the sexual avalanche that is Leela in the last few minutes of that episode. Sure, true love can make a person do unexpected things, even rise above their natural desires. But as much as he chases her, when she stops and even tries to reel him in... I think the worms must have fortified his ability to resist or sabotaged his libido.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #405 on: 08-15-2007 00:57 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 00:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by HipNoJoe:
I think the worms must have fortified his ability to resist or sabotaged his libido.

What do you mean "sabotaged his libido"? Weren't both of them making out on Leela's bed?!?

Don't you see that Fry respects her? Fry respects her both as a woman, a captain, and a friend.

 
Quote
Scene from "A Leela of Her Own"
Fry: Wow! I must say, I'm impressed. You look just like a ball player. Can I pat you on the butt?

Leela: Fry, I'm a professional athlete! So go ahead.

[Fry hesitates.]

Fry: Oh! Now I'm too nervous.

First off, Fry even asking permission to spank Leela shows that he does have some decency (as far as decency can go with butt-spanking). Then, when for once she actually allowed him to do something she'd kick his ass for doing, he just couldn't do it. So, Fry either respects Leela alot, or he was overwhelmed by the thought that he could slap her butt without any repercussions.

And that's Fry for you.
bend_her

Professor
*
« Reply #406 on: 08-15-2007 01:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall
It was his parasites.

Actually, she fell in love with what the parasites made him. I wonder why the changes weren't permanent, shouldn't muscle and brain-power be more persistent?
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #407 on: 08-15-2007 01:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by HipNoJoe:

Seriously, any guy, Zapp, Fry, any guy would succumb to the sexual avalanche that is Leela in the last few minutes of that episode.

I must warn you about making such sweeping generalizations!

Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #408 on: 08-15-2007 01:44 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 01:44 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by bend_her:
Actually, she fell in love with what the parasites made him.

Oops... my bad. I really meant that it was what the parasites made of him.

   
Quote
Originally posted by bend_her:
I wonder why the changes weren't permanent, shouldn't muscle and brain-power be more persistent?

I questioned that too before. The only thing that kept in the improved state after the parasites evacuated his body was his testicles, as proved and stated in the commentary of "Roswell that Ends Well". I have very silly reasons I just made up. With his muscles, they could have disintegrated within 24 hours of the parasites' departure.

With the brain, I do have a very unrealistic theory. What if Fry really had the potential to be a genius? Worst part is, I'm actually being serious about this one. I don't know much about brainwaves (in fact absolutely nothing), so please correct me if I'm wrong about anything. Fry, as his normal self, may have a brain that can hold a lot of data, but since he lacks the delta brainwave, his other brainwaves couldn't carry a regular amount of input and output. So, in result, Fry is slow. When the worms came into his body, they improved his other brainwaves' working power, so then he could embrace his inner knowledge that couldn't be carried without the extra help. Of course, when the parasites left, his brainwaves returned back to how they were.

Well, I guess it does help with why Fry sometimes uses an extensive, hardly explored vocabulary ("rue and lament"- over my head). Hey, it's a shot (not a very good one, though).

Or the parts of the brain that the parasites improved disintegrated like the muscles they fine-tuned...
HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #409 on: 08-15-2007 02:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
...So, Fry either respects Leela alot, or he was overwhelmed by the thought that he could slap her butt without any repercussions...
I have found that scene quite intriguing too and also can't decide what causes him to hesitate. Is it respect or confusion by the moment? I'd like to think that I'd go ahead and give her a good swat, but I'm not sure if I'd be Zapp enough to do it. (Hmm, think like Zapp but act like Kiff; that's the worst possible combination, isn't it?)
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #410 on: 08-15-2007 02:40 »

Frida Waterfall -

The worms may have actually bestowed a Delta Brainwave upon Fry when they found one lacking.
This would be further reason why they'd have to go - with his Delta wave restored he could no longer serve the function of the Mighty One.
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #411 on: 08-15-2007 05:58 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
With the brain, I do have a very unrealistic theory. What if Fry really had the potential to be a genius? Worst part is, I'm actually being serious about this one. I don't know much about brainwaves (in fact absolutely nothing), so please correct me if I'm wrong about anything. Fry, as his normal self, may have a brain that can hold a lot of data, but since he lacks the delta brainwave, his other brainwaves couldn't carry a regular amount of input and output. So, in result, Fry is slow. When the worms came into his body, they improved his other brainwaves' working power, so then he could embrace his inner knowledge that couldn't be carried without the extra help. Of course, when the parasites left, his brainwaves returned back to how they were.

This is why I saw it as the worms changing Fry. They connected all the ties in his brain, meaning he held the ability to do more things which otherwise he would have had to have learnt earlier on and repeated enough times throughout his life to be able to use those functions. Your experiences are what make you, you. Fry skipped the experiences and went striaght to being what he had the potential to be, had he been living a different life.

...or so my learning experiences regarding the brain have lead me to understand.  tongue

And they stopped because Fry destroyed many of the connections when he was threatening the worms to leave. "Waaait a minute, man!"

But he was rather silly when he got back to his 'usual' self and de-seduced Leela. Sometimes I wonder if it was because he destroyed more than what the worms had done.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #412 on: 08-15-2007 13:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
The worms may have actually bestowed a Delta Brainwave upon Fry when they found one lacking.
This would be further reason why they'd have to go - with his Delta wave restored he could no longer serve the function of the Mighty One.

I do fear that this theory is the truth. However, do you think Fry is the "Mighty One" just because of his past nastification? In the movies, seems as if his mysterious time sphere tattoo will also have something to do with this role.

I think that the role of the "Mighty One" can be compared to a role of a very religious figure- such as a god. Fry could be a mortal god for all we know. I remember thinking about the possibility of Fry being a god before, and I believe there were instances in the series that they referenced god. In a deleted scene for "Bendless Love", Bender becomes enraged with the rest of the crew who is accusing him for going around the office and bending things (including the professor). He says something along the lines of, "Oh, it must be the robot who bends things. What if I blamed it on you every time milk got lactated, or god got worshiped?" Knowing how the writers are with hiding secrets in the dialog which will come back in another episode, Fry could be this god that Bender was referring to (unintentionally). Or, looking at "The Beast with a Billion Backs", he could be referring to how Fry will be worshiped as a space pope.

On the god topic, I also suppose "Father Time" could be considered a god. Or maybe I'm pushing my "The Mighty One is Father Time" theory too much...
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #413 on: 08-15-2007 16:00 »

You don't worship a pope.

Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #414 on: 08-15-2007 16:39 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
"Oh, it must be the robot who bends things. What if I blamed it on you every time milk got lactated, or god got worshiped?"

I'd think that would be hard to misconstrue as a reference to one of the PE members being god; he was just listing weird things people do sometimes. Which is weird in itself because robots have their own religion, but I digress.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #415 on: 08-15-2007 19:47 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 19:47 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
You don't worship a pope.

They don't worship a pope like a god, but I was referring to how much people really cared about the pope (practically worshiping him). Whenever the last pope died, I remember hearing on TV that there was such a crowd for his burial that people were dying and giving birth (to babies they later named after the same pope). Of course, I could be wrong, and do keep in mind that the previous pope was in his position for twenty years or so. Also, we don't know yet if the space pope is worshiped in the future or not.

I should have said "obsessed" instead, to make a bit more sense.
Chou

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #416 on: 08-15-2007 19:49 »

That's an interesting theory-- that Fry may have more potential than we know. That very well may be true, especially if Fry is the "sole most important person in the universe". Obviously, Fry must have some unrealized power that will be explored in the movies...

We see Fry as the space pope in the panel for Beast with Billion Backs, but if he is really the "mighty one" with powers greater than anyone else, wouldn't his powers go beyond the powers of a Space Pope? Or is the Space Pope the most powerful person in the future?
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #417 on: 08-15-2007 20:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
*supposition on the nature of the 'Mighty One'.

As a temporal paradox, he's uniquely tied-in with the fabric of time-space, as evidenced in The Why of Fry (he was the only one who could pass through the temporal nexus to return to Decembed 31st, 1999).

I've had a theory for some time about the nature of societies, that they inevitably produce 'the man for the hour' when the need arises. It may be analoguous to ant or bee colonies responding to pheremonal signals to spawn more soldier units when the colony is attacked, or other species giving birth to a specific gender when that gender is lacking in the community.
When humanity faces peril, our society has a way of producing the kind of person we need to overcome... men like Christ, William Wallace, Churchill, Gorbachev, etc.
Fry may be an example of collective unconscious 'hive thinking', whereby the necessary 'tool for the job' is produced as a function of the whole.

My latest and final fanfic, 'Blame it on the Brain' will go into this in greater detail when I get it finished, as well as his inexorable connection to the Nibblonians and Brainspawn.
(Hint: The Nibblonians, Brainspawn, and the Mighty One will form the three corners of a kind of trinity, holy or unholy...)
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #418 on: 08-15-2007 20:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
 As a temporal paradox, he's uniquely tied-in with the fabric of time-space, as evidenced in The Why of Fry (he was the only one who could pass through the temporal nexus to return to Decembed 31st, 1999).

I've had a theory for some time about the nature of societies, that they inevitably produce 'the man for the hour' when the need arises. It may be analoguous to ant or bee colonies responding to pheremonal signals to spawn more soldier units when the colony is attacked, or other species giving birth to a specific gender when that gender is lacking in the community.

Woah... I never thought about that. I like that theory alot! I do remember hearing something about issues with one generation influence another generation biologically. Unfortunately, Fry was born 1,000 years before his call of duty, so is it still possible?
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #419 on: 08-15-2007 20:59 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 20:59 by coldangel_1 »

Sure - the issue is the Brainspawn, and they've existed since the dawn of time.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #420 on: 08-15-2007 22:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Sure - the issue is the Brainspawn, and they've existed since the dawn of time.

Good point.

In the first issue of the "Time Bender Trilogy", Fry, Leela, and Bender have to prove to the Omicronians who are trying to claim Earth as their territory that the population of Earth is equal or greater than one hundred. Knowing how the Omicronians are poor at telling one human from another, the three disguise themselves in various identities. The last disguise we see Fry in is a preacher. I just thought that it was kind of interesting that Fry would choose to dress as a religious figure. It could be (subconsciously) hinting to something, but, as we know, the comics aren't considered canon, so this might not hint to anything...
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #421 on: 08-15-2007 22:54 »

He's certainly a religious figure to the Nibblonians. Sort of their version of Christ. A dopey, pudgy Messiah... Let's just hope they don't plan on nailing him to anything.
Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #422 on: 08-15-2007 23:04 »

Although they might plan on him nailing something...
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #423 on: 08-15-2007 23:10 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 23:10 »

The Space Pope is merely the bishop of Space Rome. Which he's currently helping to rebuild since the Brainspawn collapsed it.

   
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:

He's certainly a religious figure to the Nibblonians. Sort of their version of Christ. A dopey, pudgy Messiah... Let's just hope they don't plan on nailing him to anything.

He's a hero, not a christ.

edit: Actually, 'christ' is Greek for 'The Anointed One', so in a literal sense you're correct. 'Messiah' is the same, only in Hebrew. But as in relation to religion... No. Not really at all.

coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #424 on: 08-15-2007 23:46 »
« Last Edit on: 08-15-2007 23:46 by coldangel_1 »

Why not?
He had to sacrifice. Gave up everything he knew and loved in the 20th Century. Also, he's the central object of their prophesy and mythology, and the axis upon which countless eons of their belief turns.

Meh, anyway... pedantic.
Decapodian

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #425 on: 08-16-2007 02:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Sure - the issue is the Brainspawn, and they've existed since the dawn of time.

Hem, hem. A few milliseconds after the dawn of time. This has been Decapodian, your guide to the world of facts.

Twilight is quite possibly the worst popular book ever written.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #426 on: 08-16-2007 08:51 »
« Last Edit on: 08-16-2007 08:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Why not?
He had to sacrifice. Gave up everything he knew and loved in the 20th Century. Also, he's the central object of their prophesy and mythology, and the axis upon which countless eons of their belief turns.

How do you know he's central? Sure, he's the only one who can save the universe from this Brainspawn threat. But how long have they known about him, as 'the mighty one'? How long have they 'foreseen' him? For all we know, it could have been the year he was born. So they've only known for what?... One thousand... Thirty years, maybe? 'Countless eons', surely. And that out of five billion seventeen! Enough for him to become the axis of their religion? No. A much respected hero who has and will sacrifice much to save others? Yes.

I have a shocking datum relevant to this conversation!



defdev1

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #427 on: 08-16-2007 08:55 »

nice xanfor
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #428 on: 08-16-2007 08:59 »

Thank you.  wink

I like to think that I'm better than the Evil Xanfor.

SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #429 on: 08-16-2007 14:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
... it could have been the year he was born. So they've only known for what?... One thousand... Thirty years, maybe?
T'would seem, to your thinking,  Fry's place in Nibblinoan religion/ mythology/ whatever, depends on how long the Nibblonians believe the prophecy of the 'Mighty One' has been a part of their culture.
As that has not been established in canon, it's a matter of opinion until it is.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
... But how long have they [the Nibblonians] known about him, as 'the mighty one'?
In That's the crux of the matter.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
'Countless eons', surely. And that out of five billion seventeen!
Actually closer to 13.7 billion... and seventeen,  wink but your point stands. If the Nibblonians have been around for 13.7 billion and seventeen years, it seems that "countless eons," would be a lot longer than a paltry millenium.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
... Enough [time] for him to become the axis of their religion? No. A much respected hero who has and will sacrifice much to save others? Yes.
To the latter, obviously yes. To the former, well... that all depends (again) on how old the prophecy is, and that is anyone's guess.

So, your middle-name is anybody today?  wink

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #430 on: 08-16-2007 15:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SpaceCase:

Actually closer to 13.7 billion... and seventeen,   wink but your point stands.

Slow internet connection. I cut down two thirds of my posting time by saying that instead of the much larger 'fifteen billion'.  tongue

Either that or I messed up.

Hmm?

Naaahhhhhh....

coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #431 on: 08-16-2007 17:32 »

You can be a real tool sometimes.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #432 on: 08-16-2007 18:02 »
« Last Edit on: 08-16-2007 18:02 »

Here is the answer which I will give to coldangel: We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire... Neither the sudden shock of debate nor the long-drawn trials of vigilance and exertion will wear us down. For we have been given the tool, and we will finish the job.

coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #433 on: 08-16-2007 19:05 »

And a wanker.
Quoting Churchill to a Churchill buff. *groan*

My point was - you're being needlessly pedantic. Reeks of argument for the sake of itself, rather than any actual aim besides self gratification.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #434 on: 08-16-2007 20:50 »

      Quote
      Originally posted by coldangel_1:

      And a wanker.

      Now, now, that word can't lead to anything. Well, nothing relevant, at least.

       
      Quote
      Quoting Churchill to a Churchill buff. *groan*

      Coldangel expects to terrorise and cow the debaters on this mighty forum. Little does he know the spirit of PEEL, or the tough fibre of the shippers.

       
      Quote
      My point was - you're being needlessly pedantic.

      pedantic
      • Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning.
      • Being showy of one’s knowledge, often in a boring manner.
      • Often used to describe a person who emphasizes his/her knowledge through the use of vocabulary; ostentatious in one’s learning.
      • Being finicky or picky with language.
      As applies to Xanfor
      • Eh, perhaps. Sometimes. As in the argument you were making. I personally believe Fry is not an overtly religious figure to the Nibblonians, and I stated one of the reasons I believe that to be true. Sure, I had to state trivialities first, and used formal rules to then get to my conclusion, but, all and all, I still aimed to complete my point.
      • I don't show off knowledge. I do try to share it, however, so that all can have a common framework around which to converse. If I'm boring in that, I assure you that it's completely coincidental.
      • I prefer sesquipedaliancool No, to be serious, in actuality, I try to use the most precise word in any circumstance.
      • Come on! I know people much worse!
      Quote
      Reeks of argument for the sake of itself,

      See point '1'.

       
      Quote
      rather than any actual aim besides self gratification.

      Coldangel_1, if you seek my understanding, if you seek elucidation for the ignorant and unaware, if you seek to be understood: Come here to debate! Coldangel_1, don't fabricate accusative statements! Coldangel_1, enter into the spirit!

      wink )

      coldangel

      DOOP Secretary
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      « Reply #435 on: 08-16-2007 21:11 »

      That entire post was pedantic and conformed to those definitions to the letter.

      I'm an honours student, by the way. I could run off on intellectual tangents with you all day if I felt so inclined, but I'm acutely aware of three things;

      1: Those that do so just make themselves look like complete twats who think they're better than everyone else.

      2: They are complete twats who think they're better than everyone else, and-

      3: It doesn't go anywhere.


      I'm not just being a grump, you just come across very condescending and smarmy at times, and it tends to irk me.
      Xanfor

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      « Reply #436 on: 08-16-2007 21:28 »

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by coldangel_1:

      That entire post was pedantic and conformed to those definitions to the letter.

      Who says I can't parody myself?

       
      Quote
      I'm an honours student, by the way. I could run off on intellectual tangents with you all day if I felt so inclined,

      Honours student? They still have those these days? Eh. I've got some midwifery experience, does that count for anything?

       
      Quote
      but I'm acutely aware of three things;

      1: Those that do so just make themselves look like complete twats who think they're better than everyone else.

      Or they're bored, which I'll admit to.  wink

       
      Quote
      2: They are complete twats who think they're better than everyone else, and-

      I may be a twat. Maybe. But I'm not better than everyone else. Really. Well, maybe Pedro La Loco... Naa, I take that back, he was fun. He was all right.

      I wonder where he is...

       
      Quote
      3: It doesn't go anywhere.

      True.

       
      Quote
      I'm not just being a grump, you just come across very condescending

      I thought I was being comic...  cry

       
      Quote
      and smarmy at times,

      Yes... I was aware of that...  frown

       
      Quote
      and it tends to irk me.

      You should have said that outright at first instead of leading me on into friendly banter...

      coldangel

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      « Reply #437 on: 08-16-2007 21:35 »
      « Last Edit on: 08-16-2007 21:35 by coldangel_1 »

      Sorry...
      I've had the benefit of growing up in a community that fervently dissuades any overt intellectualism or academia, so I don't make a habit of trying to impress people with extraneous verbosity or oblique ostentatious references.

      Don't worry, my bark is worse than my bite.

      ...Actually, not so... my 'bite' has been known to make use of a machete I keep under my bed... but online I'm rather toothless.

      Ehh... I'll try to keep my ego off yours in future. I apologise for my crudity in the face of your monumental mastery of polysyllabic words.
      As Churchill said    wink : "Eating words has never given me indigestion."
      Xanfor

      DOOP Secretary
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      « Reply #438 on: 08-16-2007 21:42 »
      « Last Edit on: 08-16-2007 21:42 »

      I apologize too. I'll keep what you said in mind, as well.

      It's just that for once, I have nothing of real value to contribute to a shippers' discussion. So I was trying to make myself look bigger in something I really shouldn't have interfered with in the first place. It was like a vacuum (as in 'complete emptiness') of inspiration on my part. Sucked me right in.

      So, back to on-topic...

      How do you think jle's gonna react when she reads all this?   wink

      edit after your edit:

      'Never give in — never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.'

       wink
      coldangel

      DOOP Secretary
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      « Reply #439 on: 08-16-2007 21:49 »

      She'll scold us...  frown

      Oh well...
      'Out of intense complexities, intense simplicities emerge.'
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