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Author Topic: Thoughts on 6ACV15 - Möbius Dick - SPOILERS!  (Read 24483 times)
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PEE Poll: Rating
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3/10   -1 (1%)
4/10   -1 (1%)
5/10   -3 (2.9%)
6/10   -5 (4.8%)
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10/10 (Epic!)   -27 (25.7%)
Total Voters: 105

Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #80 on: 08-05-2011 20:58 »
« Last Edit on: 08-05-2011 21:00 »

Quote
It would have been nice to see some more creepy stuff with the Bermuda Tetrahedron, and that may have explained better Leela's rather crazy obsession with killing the white whale.  Arguably they did a more than presentable job with it, and we just have to remember that in the five minutes we saw, there were probably hours of creepy stuff actually occurring.
That's a good point you do bring up here.
But please do keep in mind that the other characters also did experience this potential creepy stuff, and didn't act like Leela (the biggest animal welfarist on board, after all).
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #81 on: 08-05-2011 21:02 »

But the rest of the crew doesn't care about their jobs nearly as much as Leela does, so they weren't as bothered by the statue being stolen--which is probably why they weren't taken with any whale-based obsession. Leela does have the most obsessive personality, in a way, considering the various long-term missions she's undertaken (finding her parents is a biggie, but so is saving endangered animals and the like (I know the latter thing contradicts her whale-killing ways in this episode, but...)).
Whatawut

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #82 on: 08-05-2011 21:07 »

I think someone pointed this out already, but if Leela had successfully completed the mission, what was up with her killing the whale at the end? She can't use "completing the delivery" as an excuse, nor can she use the Bermuda Tetrahedron. She sure is becoming more violent these days. : (
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #83 on: 08-05-2011 21:12 »

Well, the whale did try to feed off her obsession. That was most uncool.

In general, though, I agree with you that Leela's violent tendencies have been taken too far in the new run (starting with "Bender's Game"). I think Leela is the one character most susceptible to breaches like that, where the writers will riff on one of her defining traits until it becomes a grotesque caricature of what she is actually all about. That's partly what I enjoyed so much about "Yo Leela Leela": Leela was doing something in that episode that, though self-serving and in many ways wrong, was also for a higher purpose and did not involve, say, stabbing things and eating their vital organs.
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #84 on: 08-05-2011 21:14 »

It was mentioned in the episode that ship's captains were always the most obsessed.  So Leela was simply being true to type in that regard.
Whatawut

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #85 on: 08-05-2011 21:21 »

Well, the whale did try to feed off her obsession. That was most uncool.

In general, though, I agree with you that Leela's violent tendencies have been taken too far in the new run (starting with "Bender's Game"). I think Leela is the one character most susceptible to breaches like that, where the writers will riff on one of her defining traits until it becomes a grotesque caricature of what she is actually all about. That's partly what I enjoyed so much about "Yo Leela Leela": Leela was doing something in that episode that, though self-serving and in many ways wrong, was also for a higher purpose and did not involve, say, stabbing things and eating their vital organs.

Yeah, it's a shame that Leela is potentially being mutated into an amorphous, "fit-the-episode" character now. I fear change. 

It was mentioned in the episode that ship's captains were always the most obsessed.  So Leela was simply being true to type in that regard.

True, true, but I assumed the obsession was with completing the delivery, not killing the whale for the sake of killing the whale. That's why I didn't like the fact she initiated the whale slaughter at the end once her delivery obsession was satiated.
Space Lemur
Poppler
*
« Reply #86 on: 08-05-2011 21:42 »

Obscure pun: the planet that makes monuments to the dead was named "Xenotaph."
 
A cenotaph is "an empty tomb; a sepulchral monument erected in honour of a deceased person whose body is elsewhere."
 
and xeno, prefix meaning alien.

homerjaysimpson

Space Pope
****
« Reply #87 on: 08-05-2011 22:05 »

I'm giving it a 8 out of 10. This was a good episode but they didn't take full advantage of the strangeness, much like All the Presidents' Heads. Both had kinda weak endings.
Kryten

Space Pope
****
« Reply #88 on: 08-05-2011 22:55 »

This was one of the better episodes this season... but I'm still giving it a 7/10. Maybe I'm getting harsher in my old age...
fryfanSpyOrama

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #89 on: 08-06-2011 00:42 »

Decently good episode.  Once again, Leela behaves a little out of character, endangering the lives of the crew.  Did she not learn anything from The Sting?  But the plot calls for her to risk their lives for this episode.  I was sort of half expecting Möbius Dick to be voiced by Moby just for the joke that it's Moby doing the voice.  I like the twist from the old novel that the whale feeds on people's obsessions.  Great ending with Zoidberg and Candy, wonder if we'll see her again.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #90 on: 08-06-2011 01:34 »

Perhaps Leela's thought process was more effected by some phenomena within the Bermuda Tetrahedron than the others. If the strangeness of zone can effect machines like indicators and space ships than it might effect the braining of people. Also, in The Deep South Leela did show signs of loosing it when the PE was submerged.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #91 on: 08-06-2011 01:43 »

I have to agree with futz; Leela has always struck me as a character that gets obsessed, crazy or similar whenever cornered.  Whereas Bender and Fry are more likely to just surrender when cornered, Leela never admits defeat.  I would have thought it more out of character for Leela to just give up and fly back without the monument.

And no quoting the Popcorn Delivery to Cinaplex 9!  She had a pretty obsessive reason for destroying that cargo.  Again cornered by Fry's comments about not being able to meet Al without dumping the popcorn.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #92 on: 08-06-2011 01:52 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 01:57 »

This was simply awesome, in fact quite captivating, especially the space whale scenes. It had so many great lines, and the animation was sublime. The story was totally clool and right up my street, it was exactly what I was hoping for, and it felt like the real deal Futurama. It felt like what I'd imagine Futurama would have been like had it never been cancelled. The whole middle part of the episode and dialogue interplay was classic Futurama, so many great jokes and one liners. The characters all working together and playing off each other...

Now the elements that let it down slightly; the old Planet Express building being surrounded by greenery? It wasn't that long ago, so it was kind of unbelievable. I guess I can let it slide a bit seeing as it's all past memories, but still. Did Dr Zoidberg used to have teeth? In that old scene it looked like he did, or was that an animation goof? Also, at the end where the space whale appeared on Earth, why didn't the gravity pull it down straight away? Is it because it's four dimensional?...

Aside from those few niggling issues this was amazing, loved the Sci-Fi vibe and I wish more eps could be like this. The Lost joke was awesome, and seeing the old crew was pretty interesting. I loved it when Amy harpooned the whale, and then there was no further plan. Also the space walk was great. Leela's character didn't really bother me if I'm honest. This I feel is one of those episodes that you know is special as you're watching it, and when it ends it stays with you just like the best Futurama episodes. Therefore I give it...

9/10
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #93 on: 08-06-2011 02:03 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 02:08 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

I really am not sure about this episode.  The whale scenes were awesome, there were some very memorable lines (maybe if I move the compass like this I'll end up killing the whale!) and my favorite scene was the faceoff between Amy and the whale: "DIE YOU FILTHY GIRAFFE!"

Though it did feel a bit flat, it could be one of those episodes I need to watch a second time to really enjoy.  I hated TLPJF when it was first on, now its a favorite.  I'll probably give it a second go in a few days.

Also, is the whale actually female, since Leela observed it lactating?
coffeeBot

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #94 on: 08-06-2011 02:15 »

Also, is the whale actually female, since Leela observed it lactating?

I hope, otherwise Leela observed a rather personal moment.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #95 on: 08-06-2011 02:17 »

Also, is the whale actually female, since Leela observed it lactating?


I hope, otherwise Leela observed a rather personal moment.

...well it could be some sort of weird whale gunk, like spermaceti or ambergris.   Not baby whale gravy.
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #96 on: 08-06-2011 02:32 »

Since we saw the Planet Express building being built in The Late Philip J Fry, in the same location as it usually is, and what appears to be shortly before the current crew shows up (although of course the time scale is not constant), I conclude that the first Planet Express building must have been a different structure, presumably built at a different location.  Possibly the same location as the former Cape Canaveral?  It would certainly fit the "Apollo 13" mission control types that we see at the launch of the first Planet Express ship.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
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« Reply #97 on: 08-06-2011 02:38 »

Since we saw the Planet Express building being built in The Late Philip J Fry, in the same location as it usually is, and what appears to be shortly before the current crew shows up (although of course the time scale is not constant), I conclude that the first Planet Express building must have been a different structure, presumably built at a different location.  Possibly the same location as the former Cape Canaveral?  It would certainly fit the "Apollo 13" mission control types that we see at the launch of the first Planet Express ship.
Actually, I think the crew was just imagining the building being surrounded by a farm; much like they imagined Zoidberg with hair.
Crash_7

Professor
*
« Reply #98 on: 08-06-2011 02:47 »

I give it an 8.  Good solid episode.  "I remember it like it was interesting" almost got it up to a 9.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #99 on: 08-06-2011 02:51 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 02:53 »

This was a great episode. Just so creative and intriguing to watch, which also made the jokes way better. This and "Ghost in the Machines" are my favorites from 6B, I'd say.

Oh, and the farmland is just a joke. You can invent whatever excuse (such as the crew just imagining it that way) that you want if you obsess over that sort of thing, but it was clearly just a joke since showing a building surrounded by farmland is a typical flashback "trope" in TV and movies. The idea that a building in the middle of New York would be surrounded by farmland is absurd, but that's what makes the use of the trope in this case funny. Relax.
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #100 on: 08-06-2011 03:01 »

Continuity error!

In "Insane in the Mainframe" (3002), Zoidberg celebrates ten years working at Planet Express, so he started work in 2992.  But in this episode (3010?), he was already working there 50 years earlier (2960).

Unless he started working for PE in 2950, but was so traumatized by the events of the first PE delivery that he left the company, returning to PE in 2992.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
****
« Reply #101 on: 08-06-2011 03:45 »

Yeah, I noticed that as well. But it wouldn't be too hard for the writers to come up with some kind of excuse to counter it.
Fnord
Starship Captain
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« Reply #102 on: 08-06-2011 08:16 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 08:17 »

Goof: When the Planet Earth ship is being launched, it's only identified by the logo, but when we encounter it later, there's a 1 by the logo.

It's visible on launch.

I stand corrected. I guess we're seeing the port side on launch and the starboard side later on. (That's what I get for watching the show on Lite-Brite.)

The ending is very much like Close Encounters of The Third Kind. The name "Lando" was ripped off from Star Wars, of course.

Not to forget the reference to Aliens when we see Lando attached to the whale.
Come to think of it, it's likewise a reference to Pirates of the Caribbean, especially the barnacles.

I haven't seen either of those movies.

Will be interesting to see if Zoidberg's girlfriend (Candy) sticks around.

Once she finds out he's poor, she'll be gone.

Did anyone else get the Firefly vibe when they entered the old Planet Express ship and talked about how they left in a hurry?  Sounds a lot like "Bushwhacked" to me.  

Both scenes are in fact references to the real-life "ghost ship", the Mary Celeste, which was found drifting at sea, with places set for dinner, as though they had been inerrupted during the serving of a meal.

That's one of the versions, anyway. (Others include: The food was being cooked; another says that the meal had been finished, and that the dishes were washed and put away.)

And the Mary Celeste was actually nowhere near the Bermuda Triangle when whatever happened, happened; it was 100 miles west of the Azores, according to the logbook, and was found 500 miles further east. (Source: Lawrence Kusche, The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved, pp. 31-35)

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste as well.

I think someone pointed this out already, but if Leela had successfully completed the mission, what was up with her killing the whale at the end?

Zoidberg wanted something to eat.

Also, is the whale actually female, since Leela observed it lactating?


I hope, otherwise Leela observed a rather personal moment.

...well it could be some sort of weird whale gunk, like spermaceti or ambergris.   Not baby whale gravy.

Or, maybe 4-dimensional male whales lactate.

Continuity error!

In "Insane in the Mainframe" (3002), Zoidberg celebrates ten years working at Planet Express, so he started work in 2992.  But in this episode (3010?), he was already working there 50 years earlier (2960).

Unless he started working for PE in 2950, but was so traumatized by the events of the first PE delivery that he left the company, returning to PE in 2992.

Or maybe he only did ten years of actual work, and goofed off for the other, um, let's see ... 3011-50=2961, when he started, 3002-2961=41, minus 10 for actual work, 41-10=31. Aha! 31 years of doing nothing!

***

Comment not really related to anything else: The prefix "hyper-" is used to indicate that an object is actually 4-dimensional; e.g. hypercube, hypersphere. This made me wonder whether the hyperchicken really came from the 4th dimension?
hobbitboy

Sir Rank-a-Lot
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #103 on: 08-06-2011 09:16 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 09:25 »

So Hyperion was really a 4-dimensional ion?   confused


Oh, and 8 out of 10.



Also are the writers deliberately playing up the reset switch angle this season?

Also also, was the shape of the original Planet Express ship taken from A Grand Day Out?

Don't hate me, Trinity.  I'm just the messenger.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #104 on: 08-06-2011 09:30 »

Did anybody notice a vessel in the Bermuda... place that resembled either the Discovery spacecraft from 2001, or the titular 'Event Horizon' from that movie...? There were probably a few other ships in there from other things, which other people have probably already mentioned. Maz laughed when she saw the plane from Lost.
Jezzem

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #105 on: 08-06-2011 10:01 »

Did anybody notice a vessel in the Bermuda... place that resembled either the Discovery spacecraft from 2001, or the titular 'Event Horizon' from that movie...?

Yes they did:

I also spotted two references to 2001 which made me happy...

I only spotted one (when they were inside the Bermuda Tetrahedron): the two-wheeled spaceship. There was another ship which looked like the Discovery One, but which was smoother along the sides.

I counted the ship that looked like Discovery and the fact that the 4th dimension looked like the trip through the Star Gate.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #106 on: 08-06-2011 10:05 »

Did anyone else get the Firefly vibe when they entered the old Planet Express ship and talked about how they left in a hurry?  Sounds a lot like "Bushwhacked" to me.  

Both scenes are in fact references to the real-life "ghost ship", the Mary Celeste, which was found drifting at sea, with places set for dinner, as though they had been inerrupted during the serving of a meal.

That's one of the versions, anyway. (Others include: The food was being cooked; another says that the meal had been finished, and that the dishes were washed and put away.)

And the Mary Celeste was actually nowhere near the Bermuda Triangle when whatever happened, happened; it was 100 miles west of the Azores, according to the logbook, and was found 500 miles further east. (Source: Lawrence Kusche, The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved, pp. 31-35)

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste as well.

Or perhaps it was not true at all?

Quote
Popular stories of untouched breakfasts with still-warm cups of tea on the cabin table are untrue and most likely originated with fictionalized accounts of the incident, especially one by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. At the inquiry, Oliver Deveau stated that he saw no preparations for eating and there was nothing to eat or drink in the cabin.
Dorsal Axe

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #107 on: 08-06-2011 10:48 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 10:51 »

Did Dr Zoidberg used to have teeth? In that old scene it looked like he did, or was that an animation goof?
Zoidberg's always had teeth, right from the very start. We just rarely see them.

Also, is the whale actually female, since Leela observed it lactating?
Hermes specifically refers to the whale as "she", but I assumed that was just generic whaling-talk.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #108 on: 08-06-2011 12:06 »

Did anyone else get the Firefly vibe when they entered the old Planet Express ship and talked about how they left in a hurry?  Sounds a lot like "Bushwhacked" to me. 

Both scenes are in fact references to the real-life "ghost ship", the Mary Celeste, which was found drifting at sea, with places set for dinner, as though they had been inerrupted during the serving of a meal.

That's one of the versions, anyway. (Others include: The food was being cooked; another says that the meal had been finished, and that the dishes were washed and put away.)

And the Mary Celeste was actually nowhere near the Bermuda Triangle when whatever happened, happened; it was 100 miles west of the Azores, according to the logbook, and was found 500 miles further east. (Source: Lawrence Kusche, The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved, pp. 31-35)

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste as well.

Or perhaps it was not true at all?

Quote
Popular stories of untouched breakfasts with still-warm cups of tea on the cabin table are untrue and most likely originated with fictionalized accounts of the incident, especially one by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. At the inquiry, Oliver Deveau stated that he saw no preparations for eating and there was nothing to eat or drink in the cabin.

Whilst the Mary Celeste was nowhere near the Bermuda Triangle, she was a real ship, and whether or not the table was set for dinner, she was found drifting and abandoned. Those are the facts. Everything else is up for debate.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #109 on: 08-06-2011 12:09 »

Ah right, ok I can let the teeth thing slide then (even though he looks weird when his teeth show), and I can let the countryside thing slide as it’s a joke. Shame about the Insane In The Mainframe continuity error with Dr Zoidberg's age though, which I didn't pick up on, but I guess it can be explained. Now why didn't the whale instantly fall down to Earth as soon as it appeared in the sky? That's what gravity does isn't it?...

Aside from all that though, man this ep is just so amazing. After a nights sleep I still remember it all very clearly. This is after a few weeks of eps which haven't been very memorable at all. This one sticks out, and again shows that Futurama can have extreme variables of quality within the same season. I think this is the best ep of 6B so far without question, and it will be hard for the others to top. The Late Philip J Fry is the only better episode in my opinion out of the entire Season 6 production run so far...
Zmithy

Professor
*
« Reply #110 on: 08-06-2011 14:45 »

The idea that a building in the middle of New York would be surrounded by farmland is absurd, but that's what makes the use of the trope in this case funny. Relax.

The farmland fits establish Futurama background perfectly.

Remember, New York was destroyed by aliens, then rebuilt as a Medieval city, then destroyed by Aliens before finally being rebuilt as New New York.

So it's entirely possible that there would be been farmland during that transition period.
Dorsal Axe

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #111 on: 08-06-2011 15:01 »

The only problem is that in TLPJF we see Planet Express being constructed, with city clearly surrounding the site. Indeed, it appears that some other buildings used to exist in that location, and were demolished to make way for Planet Express.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #112 on: 08-06-2011 15:13 »

I can chalk it up as a joke or some other location without too much reluctance. I’m more concerned about why the Space Whale didn’t instantly drop down to Earth the moment it appeared in the sky. I understand Leela was controlling it, what about gravity?...
Bend-err

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #113 on: 08-06-2011 15:15 »

Or maybe it's just the professor's memory not being the best and thinking he actually build it in the middle of nowhere before any city was around it. Which is a joke anyway considering it's in the middle of NNY.
Jezzem

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #114 on: 08-06-2011 15:20 »

I can chalk it up as a joke or some other location without too much reluctance. I’m more concerned about why the Space Whale didn’t instantly drop down to Earth the moment it appeared in the sky. I understand Leela was controlling it, what about gravity?...

It's a four-dimensional space whale, I'm assuming it has the ability to fly (/hover).
TheAnvil

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #115 on: 08-06-2011 15:51 »

I loved it, and the oceanic flight 815 ref was sweet. Much better than last weeks episode!
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #116 on: 08-06-2011 16:06 »
« Last Edit on: 08-06-2011 16:36 »

One other thing I noticed with this episode is it worked wonderfully without having a B-story. The majority of the episode was spent in space. You could at a stretch call the Professor waiting for them a B-story, but it wasn't really a B-story in the traditional sense because it wasn’t gone back to until Dr Zoidberg went back there after having used the escape pod. Until then it was A-story all the way and there was no going from one story to the other until the A-story provided the link...

The episode didn't suffer one bit for it either. It just goes to prove that Futurama can stay focussed and that an episode doesn't need a B-story to be good, a B-story isn’t a requirement. As long as the A-story holds up well enough, which it did in this case, then that’s perfectly acceptable. The fact that aside from the Professor the whole crew was focussed on during the A-story kinda helped in this instance...

I guess it just goes to show that it's no real reason to mark an episode down for not having a B-story because this episode proves it isn't required!...
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #117 on: 08-06-2011 17:06 »

Maybe there wasn't farmland at all... Remember, that's how one of the crew might of been imagining it... They imagined Zoidberg with hair, so...
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #118 on: 08-06-2011 18:56 »

I liked it. It had a great concept and a lot of cool ideas, but it was let down in other regards. I certainly didn't mind Leela's characterisation from a continuity point of view as it all seemed in-keeping with what we've seen of her before. I wasn't a fan of her characterisation based on how one-dimensional and cartoonish it was though, but then -this is a cartoon.

I wonder how the flashbacks in this episode will tie into The Tip of the Zoidberg (if at all).

Also, this is the first time we've seen mutants on the surface since they won the right to be on the surface (although production order might negate that).

It was somewhat lacking in the funny department for me -although it still got a lot of good laughs in. Overall, I enjoyed it, but not as much as most people here seem to have. A great episode, but not my favourite of the run or anything.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #119 on: 08-06-2011 19:01 »

Agreed with Cyber Turnip.  I think I might have to rewatch it, as it seems like one of those episodes I didnt think much of at first, but end up really growing on me like TLPJF. 

Also anyone notice that they dropped a hint about Reincarnation?  Leela calls Amy "Sailor Moon" for some reason, which Amy will be playing a parody of in the upcoming episode.
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