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Author Topic: Thoughts on 2ACV19 - The Cryonic Woman  (Read 2467 times)
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SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« on: 07-05-2011 11:23 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2011 09:44 by futurefreak »

[edit by futurefreak. The News thread was getting derailed so I created a review thread for the episode (at the time of its creation none existed)].

I left my initial comment vague as to not cause this kind of argument, but I did indeed mean Cryonic and Buggalo.

Doesn't anyone think that the first act of "The Cryonic Woman" was good?

I loved the opening scene and really enjoyed the first act. I wish that more of the episode was about Fry and Bender running amok at the Cryogenics Lab, and Leela being a "delivery boy". Because it was when Polly Shore and Michelle were introduced that the episode went off the rails. And I disagree with group mindset that the ending was terrible.

I'd never claim it was a "good" episode overall, but the enjoyable first act is what elevates it from "worst-episode-ever" categorization IMO.

Whereas episodes like "That's Lobstertainment", "Where the Buggalo Roam", and many of the new episodes I didn't like at all, which is why I consider them to be the worst episodes of Futurama. If I were to rank all of the Futurama episodes, "The Cryonic Woman" would be in the bottom twenty, but not in the bottom two.of Futurama. If I were to rank all of the Futurama episodes, "The Cryonic Woman" would be in the bottom twenty, but not in the bottom two.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #1 on: 07-05-2011 17:40 »

I left my initial comment vague as to not cause this kind of argument, but I did indeed mean Cryonic and Buggalo.

Doesn't anyone think that the first act of "The Cryonic Woman" was good?

I loved the opening scene and really enjoyed the first act. I wish that more of the episode was about Fry and Bender running amok at the Cryogenics Lab, and Leela being a "delivery boy". Because it was when Polly Shore and Michelle were introduced that the episode went off the rails. And I disagree with group mindset that the ending was terrible.

I'd never claim it was a "good" episode overall, but the enjoyable first act is what elevates it from "worst-episode-ever" categorization IMO.

Whereas episodes like "That's Lobstertainment", "Where the Buggalo Roam", and many of the new episodes I didn't like at all, which is why I consider them to be the worst episodes of Futurama. If I were to rank all of the Futurama episodes, "The Cryonic Woman" would be in the bottom twenty, but not in the bottom two.

I see people say quite often that the first act of Cryonic is one of the best first acts ever. It's just that the rest of the episode doesn't hold up.

'Tis a shame that I've never seen anyone admit to that.

i_c_weiner alleged that "Cryonic" was one of "two of the universally-accepted worst episodes of the series." IME most PEELers seem to agree. Very few people here have been brave enough to admit that they liked any part of "Cryonic" because the backlash has been so harsh and one-sided. It has been damned near Orwellian the way any discussion of that controversial episode has been quashed. shifty
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #2 on: 07-05-2011 17:44 »
« Last Edit on: 07-05-2011 17:56 »

I actually enjoy both the first and second acts of "The Cryonic Woman." Michelle was a boring character (I like Sarah Silverman and feel she wasn't used to her full potential; I get more amusement from her brief appearance in BBS than I do from her role in all of TCW), but the contrast between how she fits into the year 3000 and how Fry does is interesting to watch. I think the writers wasted some opportunities to do a sort of precursor to "The Luck of the Fryrish," what with the flashbacks to Michelle's life in the 21st century without Fry, but overall the first two acts of the episode are solid. It's the third act that is absolutely atrocious and ruins everything.

Edited to protect the innocent.
DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #3 on: 07-05-2011 17:46 »

Very few people here have been brave enough to admit that they liked any part of "Cryonic"

The only bad thing about that episode is Michelle... no no
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #4 on: 07-05-2011 17:50 »
« Last Edit on: 07-05-2011 17:51 »

I left my initial comment vague as to not cause this kind of argument, but I did indeed mean Cryonic and Buggalo.

Doesn't anyone think that the first act of "The Cryonic Woman" was good?

I loved the opening scene and really enjoyed the first act. I wish that more of the episode was about Fry and Bender running amok at the Cryogenics Lab, and Leela being a "delivery boy". Because it was when Polly Shore and Michelle were introduced that the episode went off the rails. And I disagree with group mindset that the ending was terrible.

I'd never claim it was a "good" episode overall, but the enjoyable first act is what elevates it from "worst-episode-ever" categorization IMO.

Whereas episodes like "That's Lobstertainment", "Where the Buggalo Roam", and many of the new episodes I didn't like at all, which is why I consider them to be the worst episodes of Futurama. If I were to rank all of the Futurama episodes, "The Cryonic Woman" would be in the bottom twenty, but not in the bottom two.

I see people say quite often that the first act of Cryonic is one of the best first acts ever. It's just that the rest of the episode doesn't hold up.

'Tis a shame that I've never seen anyone admit to that.

i_c_weiner alleged that "Cryonic" was one of "two of the universally-accepted worst episodes of the series." IME most PEELers seem to agree. Very few people here have been brave enough to admit that they liked any part of "Cryonic" because the backlash has been so harsh and one-sided. It has been damned near Orwellian the way any discussion of that controversial episode has been quashed. shifty
Why is it that you have to constantly make some sort of political comment with every argument? Is it to rile people up? The only reason I'm riled up is because of your blatant misuse of the term "Orwellian".

And give me an example of where somebody has been squashed and ridiculed because they felt any part of The Cryonic Woman was good. My usage of "universally-accepted" meant that a grand majority of fans agree that these are amongst the worst episodes in the series. That doesn't mean that they do not have any redeeming qualities whatsoever or no supporters whatsoever, as Aki and Gorky pointed out, but that overall the episodes are deemed worse than the others from the series.

I'll see Weiner's first act of "The Cryonic Woman" ...
Whoa, that wasn't me!
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #5 on: 07-05-2011 18:25 »

I actually really like The Cryonic Woman and consider it one of the best episodes of the second season. However, I don't think there's some sort of conspiracy to keep fans of it down; it's just not a popular episode among a lot of people. Simple enough.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #6 on: 07-05-2011 19:39 »
« Last Edit on: 07-05-2011 19:44 »

i_c_weiner alleged that "Cryonic" was one of "two of the universally-accepted worst episodes of the series." IME most PEELers seem to agree. Very few people here have been brave enough to admit that they liked any part of "Cryonic" because the backlash has been so harsh and one-sided. It has been damned near Orwellian the way any discussion of that controversial episode has been quashed. shifty
Why is it that you have to constantly make some sort of political comment with every argument? Is it to rile people up? The only reason I'm riled up is because of your blatant misuse of the term "Orwellian".

Firstly, I didn't misuse "Orwellian". In this context I meant that the group-think mindset (i.e. Big Brother) has decreed that "The Cryonic Woman" is the worst episode, and that certain like-minded posters (i.e. the Thought Police) are blatantly intolerant and dismissal of any notion to the contrary. I consider that to be oppressive, authoritarian, and destructive to the free expression of ideas and opinions.

Do you know how often I've had my opinions scoffed at because someone basically said "But you liked The Cryonic Woman, therefore you're wrong." (I've provided examples below)

Second, regarding misusing words... you're constantly misusing "political". The belief in free speech is NOT a partisan issue. (Your apparent belief to the contrary is indictative of an Orwellian mindset.)

When I point out how my opponents constantly try to undermine, belittle, and refute my opinions, and flagrantly insult me, all in the effort to suppress my point of view, I'm not making a "political" statement; I'm calling attention to their blatant intolerance.

And give me an example of where somebody has been squashed and ridiculed because they felt any part of The Cryonic Woman was good.

Here are two in the last three days, in just one thread:

... I seem to remember whoever was stating this was being a complete dick as well. I can't be bothered to re-read the whole thread again and find out who. But I have a feeling it's the guy who's been posting immensely long and pontificating rants about how much he hates certain episodes and feels that The Cryonic Woman was better.

Which is just indefensible. no no

Didnít you watch The Cryonic Woman? What was so much better about the ending to that episode? I would really like to know. Itís fair to say that Ghost In The Machines had one of the poorer endings of the show, but it is by no means the worst...

Examples provided.

And there are plenty more examples.

My usage of "universally-accepted" meant that a grand majority of fans agree that these are amongst the worst episodes in the series. That doesn't mean that they do not have any redeeming qualities whatsoever or no supporters whatsoever, as Aki and Gorky pointed out, but that overall the episodes are deemed worse than the others from the series.

That's not what "universally-accepted" means.

Yeah, yeah, you were exaggerating -- and what you wrote wasn't intended to be literal. roll eyes

That's bullsh!t, because I lifted that quote that from a much earlier post, wherein you alleged that EVERYONE agrees that "The Cryonic Woman" is one of the two worst episodes of the series, and made no effort to qualify your statement -- until now.
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #7 on: 07-05-2011 21:08 »

I actually really like The Cryonic Woman and consider it one of the best episodes of the second season. However, I don't think there's some sort of conspiracy to keep fans of it down; it's just not a popular episode among a lot of people. Simple enough.

I agree!
I admit..The Cryonic Woman is one of my favorite season 2 episodes.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #8 on: 07-05-2011 22:47 »

I think that the Cryonic Woman is the best episode in Futurella.  It features that one funny guy that I don't like at all, and also Fry's girlfriend and I would stick it in her.  That was funny.... so it's slightly less dangerous than skateboarding, Goooooooo!!!!
InfoMan!

Crustacean
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« Reply #9 on: 07-05-2011 23:16 »
« Last Edit on: 07-05-2011 23:17 »

Thank You DannyJC13!

I love the first half to cryonic women the second half is meh but still I like the episode but certainly not one of the best.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #10 on: 07-06-2011 00:44 »

'Tis a shame that I've never seen anyone admit to that.

i_c_weiner alleged that "Cryonic" was one of "two of the universally-accepted worst episodes of the series." IME most PEELers seem to agree. Very few people here have been brave enough to admit that they liked any part of "Cryonic" because the backlash has been so harsh and one-sided. It has been damned near Orwellian the way any discussion of that controversial episode has been quashed. shifty

Cryonic Woman.  Everything before Michelle and not including Pauly Shore was gold.

The Cryonic Woman... the first act was hilarious, and even the second act had enough funny moments to make it a good episode... but the third act...  frown

"The Cryonic Woman", obviously. The first act was great, with the first 2 or 3 minutes being absolutely hilarious.

Yeahp, The Cryonic Woman is a hit.  As in, pretty much among the worst.  The first act is neat - in fact hilarious - but then it takes a turn for the worse.

Quote from: SonicPanther
The Cryonic Woman - I loved the first act; the moment Michelle was introduced it crumbled apart like a cookie when you drop it in your milk. Or a donut in your coffee. Whichever you prefer. She was a bitch - not a funny bitch, just an annoying, pointless bitch

You don't know your PEEL, mister.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #11 on: 07-06-2011 01:47 »

A majority of them is from before I joined in '09 too. But before I make a statement on how PEELers feel about a certain thing, I google it. There is a search button on the top of all PEEL pages, all I typed was "act cryonic".
AdrenalinDragon

Bending Unit
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« Reply #12 on: 07-06-2011 02:21 »
« Last Edit on: 07-06-2011 02:28 »

I'd probably vote The Cryonic Woman as the most underrated episode of the entire series to be honest. Sure, the 3rd act is weaker than the first two, but I didn't think Michelle was anywhere close to damaging an episode like Killer App's Susan Boil for example.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #13 on: 07-06-2011 02:23 »

Hmm. I like Cryonic Woman. I agree that it got worse once Michelle entered, but it never dipped below "pretty good" in my opinion. Everything before Michelle is 10/10 quality for me, particularly the trio's entire conversation on that park bench. I liked watching Michelle's reaction to the crew as well.

I haven't been here very long (haha, understatement) but I don't really think anyone's here to jump on people because of their episode preferences. I've seen people say they liked Killer App, which a lot of people dislike and I personally think was way worse than Cryonic Woman,  and no one responded to them with "lol u suck".

edit to add: AdrenalinDragon, great minds think alike.
flesheatingbull

Starship Captain
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« Reply #14 on: 07-06-2011 02:56 »

I've always liked the cryonic woman too. Call me crazy.
pluche93

Bending Unit
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« Reply #15 on: 07-06-2011 04:38 »

yeah me too, Cryonic Woman was a really good ep showing us more crazy stuff from the future and from 20th century life of Fry. now just bite one shiny metal ass and stop complaining about stuff on the news thread, ok?
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #16 on: 07-06-2011 04:41 »

If PEELers weren't allowed to complain about stuff in inappropriate threads, this place would pretty much cease to exist.
totalnerduk

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #17 on: 07-06-2011 11:36 »

Very few people here have been brave enough to admit that they liked any part of "Cryonic"

The only bad thing about that episode is Michelle... no no

Don't forget Pauly Shore, and the terrible ending.

So I found a post with most of what's wrong with the episode...

Having watched the episode again in order to give it a fairer chance, I'll admit to liking the opening sequence up until the ship takes off, the parts prior to Pauly Shore's appearance where Fry and Bender are working at Applied Cryogenics, and the skateboard race.

There was nothing else in there that I actually enjoyed though. The parts that I've mentioned were above the average quality of the rest of the episode, and the rest was mediocre where it wasn't busy sucking as hard and as unfunnily as possible.

Now to watch Lobstertainment and Bendin' in the Wind again, to give them another chance. I was meant to be doing nothing today, but it looks like I now have a plan...
MightyBooshFan91

Bending Unit
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« Reply #18 on: 07-06-2011 14:04 »

Really? 'cause I just rewatched that episode yesterday to see of it's as bad as you lot say and I laughed all the way through it. It was far superior to Neutopia and Benderama which I watched along with it.
I wish I could see why it's so hated....i must be weird for finding the jokes funny instead of raging about Michelle the whole time.
I'll watch that's lobstertainment today I think, apparently it should make me want to kill myself but I'll probably just end up laughing again
spira

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #19 on: 07-06-2011 15:21 »


This is totally true and definitely an issue I had with the episode. But it didn't ruin it for me, because I thought the first two acts were great. I liked seeing career chips again, the opening was one of the best openings of all of them in my opinion, and I was thoroughly amused by the whole "That's how we met." "...And then what happened?" conversation. But I mean, it's not, like, my favorite episode ever and if the general consensus is that it sucks, okay, I can live with that.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #20 on: 07-06-2011 15:28 »

The ending of "The Cryonic Woman" never bothered me until I saw people ragging on it on PEEL. I mean, yes, it was never a favorite ending of mine, but it's not like an OH NOES THE WORLD'S MESSED UP ending is totally unheard of for Futurama. "When Aliens Attack" ends with the implication that New New York will have some serious work to do restoring the city; "War is the H-Word" shows Bender presumably blowing everybody up after saying "antiquing." And, also, Fry has survived some pretty nasty falls--from a soap bubble ("Bender's Big Score") and from a regular-board-turned-diving-board ("Attack of the Killer App") to name just two examples. He's a pretty hardy fella, and the Futurama universe runs on cartoon logic when it satisfies the Rule of Funny.

Disclaimer: TV Tropes will ruin your life.
spira

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #21 on: 07-06-2011 15:46 »

..it's not like an OH NOES THE WORLD'S MESSED UP ending is totally unheard of for Futurama. "When Aliens Attack" ends with the implication that New New York will have some serious work to do restoring the city; "War is the H-Word" shows Bender presumably blowing everybody up after saying "antiquing."

This be a valid point. Sometimes I feel as though Futurama should be above doing little stuff that should kill someone just for Rule of Funny, but then I remember that it is actually rather funny and get off my high horse and watch more Futurama.
flesheatingbull

Starship Captain
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« Reply #22 on: 07-06-2011 16:20 »

haha. i watched it last night just because of this thread. it is a plain ol' funny episode. for one, you are supposed to hate fry's girlfriend. she has no redeeming qualities, and we feel bad that fry will just accept her.

the cryogenics section of the episode is quite possibly one of the funnest scenes of the entire series.

as for the ending, it is hilarious. this is a cartoon. for yevo sakes, look at the crap that was rebirth.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #23 on: 07-06-2011 16:21 »

I don't hate Michelle like most people do - she's a good character, I enjoyed her until they ran off to the future - but I still think The Cryonic Woman is one of the worst episodes of Futurama.
DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #24 on: 07-06-2011 17:33 »

Okay, 2 good eps destroyed by 2 terrible things...

The Cryonic Woman - Michelle (Okay TNUK, Pauly Shore too... smile)
Attack of the Killer App - Loved every bit of it -- Until we see Susan... no no


UK-Working link? confused
flesheatingbull

Starship Captain
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« Reply #25 on: 07-06-2011 18:19 »
« Last Edit on: 07-06-2011 22:06 by futurefreak »

Okay, 2 good eps destroyed by 2 terrible things...

The Cryonic Woman - Michelle (Okay TNUK, Pauly Shore too... smile)
Attack of the Killer App - Loved every bit of it -- Until we see Susan... no no


UK-Working link? confused

how does michelle kill that episode? SHE IS DESIGNED TO GUIDE THE EPISODE. she is a cheating *blank*, something which nobody(except woman) can respect. this episode also shows us more of fry's character.
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #26 on: 07-06-2011 20:38 »

Danny is a cool guy. smile He's entitled to his own opinion just like everyone else on this board.
totalnerduk

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #27 on: 07-06-2011 21:03 »

Yeah, I too like Danny and respect his opinion way more than I do flesheatingbull.

as for the ending, it is hilarious. this is a cartoon. for yevo sakes, look at the crap that was rebirth.

1. Learn how to spell the names of the characters.

2. Learn how to capitalise, please.

3. Rebirth didn't take continuity, pull down its pants and viciously rape it, unlike the ending to Cryonic Woman. Me, I love a faithful and well-serviced continuity. I value it pretty damn highly. Humour can take a backseat for continuity - especially that sort of gag. It was funny for a Warner Bros cartoon with Wile E. Coyote, but Futurama generally works on real-world rules when it comes to things like falling from a great height.

There was no plot resolution, and nothing was back to normal... even a short scene between that and the credits with Fry in hospital and the Professor saying he can have his job back if he ever comes out of his coma would've gone some way to fixing this in my eyes. But no. A cheap and lazy ending joke (which fell flat for me because Futurama had always been better than that, up to that point) was used, and then the credits rolled. I could've quite happily sacrificed the Pauly Shore sequence in exchange for the fix to the ending. But no, somebody decided Pauly Shore was more important than continuity.

It made me angry enough that it effectively ruined the episode for me, and re-watching it angries me up even more because I know it's coming.

4. It's a cartoon, but it's also a cartoon that takes things seriously most of the time. Nerd jokes and trope subversions abound, as well as a good understanding of the genre by the writers. You can't have it both ways. Either you're the sort of cartoon where there's science behind the jokes and the results of your actions are properly thought through by the writing team, or you're the sort of cartoon where your employer will re-hire you after dropping you from a spaceship flying above the skyscrapers, and you land completely unharmed. In the beginning, Futurama was a sitcom first and a cartoon second. For Cryonic Woman, it's a cartoon first, a sitcom second. Even Rebirth isn't guilty of that. Whilst it runs on insane science fiction mumbo jumbo and astounding nonsense, it frames that within the context of the show and explains everything within the framework of the episode. It works. It doesn't fuck continuity viciously in the arse with a chainsaw and toss it bleeding into the street like the ending of Cryonic Woman did.

I don't quite know if I'm getting across to you exactly how much of a continuity nerd I can be... if something violates established canon or if there's somethin we're not even given an implication of background for, or if there's something that causes some sort of gap in continuity which forces people to say "wizard" or "it's a fucking cartoon, let it go/lighten up/etc", I get annoyed with it. Anything that respects continuity (like the early episodes of The Simpsons and most of Futurama) gets a big grin and a wave of pure happy from me.

That is why Rebirth doesn't deserve to be called crap when you're defending Cryonic Woman, and why Cryonic Woman is practically impossible to defend IMO. Sure, there were good moments. Yes, there were funny jokes and an enjoyable sequence or two. But did it manage to meet the quality I expect from Futurama by adhering to the twin principles of good continuity and Fry's maxim "at the end of the episode, everything's right back to normal"?

No. It did not.

I consider "When Aliens Attack" to get a free pass on Fry's maxim, btw. The reason being that the destruction of NNY is something that can be fixed. Killing your main character by dropping him out of a spaceship is not something that you should be able to undo offscreen without at least an attempt at explaining. I'd've taken a vague one-line handwave at the beginning of AWITM as an acceptable fix, but we didn't even get that. I just feel like the staff weren't even trying when it came time to end the episode.

I might watch the first act again sometime soon, but it'll be another while before I sit through the whole of Cryonic Woman unless I've got a notepad and an itchy freeze-frame finger to write down a list of everywhere I feel it could've been done a lot better.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #28 on: 07-06-2011 21:13 »

Well I don't like to say "Second", but I don't think it could be summed up much better than TNUK's post right there, so...

Second.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #29 on: 07-06-2011 22:31 »

tnuk, I'm interested in hearing your take on the ending of "War is the H Word", considering continuity and giving "When Aliens Attack" a free pass.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #30 on: 07-06-2011 23:28 »

I hate end ending to War is the H-Word about as much as The Cryonic Woman, the difference is that War is the H-Word is an absolutely excellent episode up until that final gag, whereas The Cryonic Woman isn't... so I'm happy to forgive War is the H-Word.

When Aliens Attack on the other hand makes a joke out of itself by doing it, so I'll let it off... plus, like War Is the H-Word, it's an excellent episode.


Also, the plots are resolved, they just chuck a new gag in afterwards. The Cryonic Woman doesn't resolve its plot, it just sort of ends.

The plot is incredibly dull and boring without really making good use of the sci-fi element of the show. This can be fine if there's a good character-based story to tell or if the gags are consistently funny enough (I, Roommate) but this one just falls flat of the mark.

Plus Pauly Shore was a horrible celebrity appearance, badly crow-barred in where he didn't really make sense... it's like the contemporary references in new episodes people are complaining about. I know they explain why he's there, but it all feels so laboured. And the man isn't funny and his voice-acting is bad. It's not Chris-Elliot-bad, but it's bad.

Michelle is a dull character. I really like Sarah Silverman's voice-work with her and feel that she was wasted... especially after how funny I found her delivery of "Really, that's a dumb name, ewww" in Bender's Big Score.

The Cryonic Woman is a horrible episode by Futurama's standards and easily the worst of the original run in my eyes. That's not to say that it's devoid of merit or that I don't enjoy watching it... it's just considerably worse than all the other episodes of the show (before In-A-Gadda-Crap-Leela, Attack of the Killer Crap and The Holiday Craptacular came along).
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #31 on: 07-07-2011 02:43 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2011 03:11 »

totalnerduk, your supposed justifications for hating "The Cryonic Woman" are really flimsy to anyone who doesn't agree with you that it's the worst Futurama episode ever.

3. Rebirth didn't take continuity, pull down its pants and viciously rape it, unlike the ending to Cryonic Woman.

There was no plot resolution, and nothing was back to normal... even a short scene between that and the credits with Fry in hospital and the Professor saying he can have his job back if he ever comes out of his coma would've gone some way to fixing this in my eyes.

The ending scene provided a perfectly reasonable hint for how Fry was given his job back: The Professor forgot why he fired Fry, again -- but Bender didn't remind the Professor why he fired him. That's a perfectly reasonable explanation for how Fry got his job back in-between episodes, and it wasn't necessary for it to be shown on-screen.

4. It's a cartoon, but it's also a cartoon that takes things seriously most of the time. ... Either you're the sort of cartoon where there's science behind the jokes and the results of your actions are properly thought through by the writing team, or you're the sort of cartoon where your employer will re-hire you after dropping you from a spaceship flying above the skyscrapers, and you land completely unharmed.

Firstly, the extent of Fry's injuries from the fall were not shown, so you can't assume that he was completely unharmed or it was fatal -- regardless of how high or how fast the PlanEx ship was travelling when the Professor dropped Fry from the ship.

Second, Fry has survived serious, otherwise fatal injuries before, such as when Dr. Zoidberg transplanted his head onto Amy's body when his body was badly injured in a hover-car crash, in "Put Your Head On My Shoulder". Fry has also lost limbs on mulitple occasions and somehow didn't bleed out.

Third, Hermes survived being decapitated twice in "Bender's Big Score", and his head was preserved in a head jar. At the end of the movie his original body was repaired and his head was re-attached.

Fourth, Fry and many other characters have sustained serious injuries and have miraculously healed impossibly fast, such as in "Xmas Story" wherein Fry, Hermes, and Zoidberg were injured from the bodsled run, but in the next scene their bandages and casts were gone and they were healed. At the end of "Amazon Women in the Mood", Fry and Zap were in lower body casts and fully healed in the next episode.

So singling out "The Cryonic Woman" for supposedly defying Futurama's fictional "laws of science" is a ludicrous criticism.

That is why Rebirth doesn't deserve to be called crap when you're defending Cryonic Woman, and why Cryonic Woman is practically impossible to defend IMO.

Yeah, in your opinion. roll eyes

But apparently you can't tolerate other people's opinions when they don't agree with you that "The Cryonic Woman" is the worst episode.

But did it manage to meet the quality I expect from Futurama by adhering to the twin principles of good continuity and Fry's maxim "at the end of the episode, everything's right back to normal"?

No. It did not.

I consider "When Aliens Attack" to get a free pass on Fry's maxim, btw.

That's a flagrant and unjustifiable double standard.

The reason being that the destruction of NNY is something that can be fixed. Killing your main character by dropping him out of a spaceship is not something that you should be able to undo offscreen without at least an attempt at explaining.

To summarize my earlier points: Fry wasn't shown to have died in the fall; and he's survived and fully recovered from serious injuries in the past, often without on- or off-screen explanation.

I'd've taken a vague one-line handwave at the beginning of AWITM as an acceptable fix, but we didn't even get that. I just feel like the staff weren't even trying when it came time to end the episode.

I cannot recall Futurama EVER referring to something in the previous episode to resolve a supposed "continuity" problem.

For example, there was no explanation in "Fry & The Slurm Factory" about how New New York was completely repaired after the destruction wreaked by the Omicronian invaders in the previous episode, "When Aliens Attack!" But you gave that episode a "free pass". roll eyes

My point is that you're hopelessly compromised in regards to your opinion about "The Cryonic Woman". You've contrived what you believe is an ironclad case for why it's the worst episode of Futurama. But as I've demonstrated, none of your criticisms hold up to scrutiny.

What this boils down to is that you hate "The Cryonic Woman". Fine. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. So hate on. But you're absolutely wrong that "Cryonic Woman is practically impossible to defend", even in your opinion.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #32 on: 07-07-2011 02:45 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2011 09:12 »


4. It's a cartoon, but it's also a cartoon that takes things seriously most of the time. Nerd jokes and trope subversions abound, as well as a good understanding of the genre by the writers. You can't have it both ways. Either you're the sort of cartoon where there's science behind the jokes and the results of your actions are properly thought through by the writing team, or you're the sort of cartoon where your employer will re-hire you after dropping you from a spaceship flying above the skyscrapers, and you land completely unharmed. In the beginning, Futurama was a sitcom first and a cartoon second. For Cryonic Woman, it's a cartoon first, a sitcom second. Even Rebirth isn't guilty of that. Whilst it runs on insane science fiction mumbo jumbo and astounding nonsense, it frames that within the context of the show and explains everything within the framework of the episode. It works. It doesn't fuck continuity viciously in the arse with a chainsaw and toss it bleeding into the street like the ending of Cryonic Woman did.


You're right in saying that it's a sitcom and not "just a cartoon" (takes itself seriously most of the time, though? I dunno...certain things and when the story requires it, sure), but sitcoms also have their own weird logic, even collectively speaking. Even when things don't go completely back to normal at the end of a sitcom, you still sort of assume most of the time that they will have by the next episode if it isn't a significant enough of a change or obviously just something that was put in as a joke. Even in that scene, there's an easy enough explanation for either "problem" (A. it's the future, Fry could easily have his injuries fixed by someone or could have landed on a monster or something; he once had his hands eaten off by a t-rex and it didn't even matter, and another episode ended with him missing limbs and possibly his head. And B. the Professor is so senile and forgetful that he can't remember why he fired Fry in the first place, or even that he did the same to Bender for the same reasons, so there's no reason he wouldn't just hire Fry back an hour later anyway). Plenty of sitcoms - great sitcoms, like The Simpsons in its heyday, and certainly Futurama a bunch of other times - have done essentially the same thing. You just go along with it. Having a detailed explanation of a joke, or after one, is only necessary if you can't accept ever having anything happen off-screen, when the cameras aren't rolling (or the animators drawing, as it were), or if it's something so huge (a character dying onscreen, for instance) that it just HAS to be resolved. The latter isn't the case here, at all, and the former clearly isn't a problem since you accept other episodes like When Aliens Attack so easily (for reasons that the writers themselves probably did not intend).

Futurama is also not a show with perfect continuity, anyway. David Cohen said a while back that they had to abandon 100 percent continuity at some point because it was impossible to maintain in a series like this, and there are literally running jokes (Scruffy, Bender's percentages) that are inconsistent on purpose. The important things - Fry loves Leela, which characters are alive or dead, the major roles on the show, that sort of thing - are what are maintained. Same with The Simpsons or even shows like The Office (which has had some continuity errors, despite being so continuous). These aren't universes that are meant to be completely continuous and logical in the first place; they are universes in which minor details are routinely sacrificed for a joke. If the joke is good enough, I can't say I mind.

EDIT: And by the way, despite some similar opinions/arguments, I hope this post doesn't come off as dickish as the one above...
winna

Avatar Czar
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« Reply #33 on: 07-07-2011 03:41 »

The Cryonic Woman is a shit episode, and everyone who likes any part of it can go eat shit.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #34 on: 07-07-2011 03:47 »

How diplomatic of you, winna. wink
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #35 on: 07-07-2011 09:07 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2011 09:10 »

I really didn't find the episode to be that bad. I thought Fry battling the kids was funny, the callback to the seldom used career chip was awesome, and just Fry's overall stupidity entertaining to watch. Michelle didn't annoy me really, she got hers, she was dumped by ivy league prep guy.
MightyBooshFan91

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #36 on: 07-07-2011 12:57 »

3. Rebirth didn't take continuity, pull down its pants and viciously rape it
Neither does this episode, it's a joke
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Futurama generally works on real-world rules when it comes to things like falling from a great height.
Bullshit, what about Bender in Godfellas, he was thrown light years back to Earth and landed without a scratch
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It made me angry enough that it effectively ruined the episode for me, and re-watching it angries me up even more because I know it's coming.
So how come War is the H-Word or When Aliens Attack isn't ruined for you?
How about The Problem With Popplers or A Fishful of Dollars where Fry somehow loses all his money for no reason? Or the Farnsworth Parabox where Fry sits on his own universe? How many episodes do you hate for no reason or because of the ending? Just this one?
What about episodes such as Benderama or the Duh-Vinci Code where the main characters end the episodes as murderers, surely the next 20 years of the show should just be them in jail, right? Not walking away off to the next adventure.
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It doesn't fuck continuity viciously in the arse with a chainsaw and toss it bleeding into the street like the ending of Cryonic Woman did.
This'd probably be funny if it was in any way in evidence in the episode. There are probably more episodes where continuity is completely forgotten by the next episode then there are ones that acknowledge previous events happening. This isn't Lost or 24 where every little detail is important, it's a comedy, it makes jokes.
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4. It's a cartoon, but it's also a cartoon that takes things seriously most of the time.
You've sort of contradicted yourself there, most of the episodes run on nonsense, like Zoidberg attaching Fry's head to Amy's body in a way that keeps him alive. Or Mermaids mutated from coca-cola. There are dozens more examples that I won't bother listing.
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it runs on insane science fiction mumbo jumbo and astounding nonsense
Like how people in the future can recover from should-be-fatal injuries? Or is that too much mumbo, not enough jumbo for Cryonic Woman?
 
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Anything that respects continuity (like the early episodes of The Simpsons and most of Futurama) gets a big grin and a wave of pure happy from me.

Simpsons has almost no continuity at all, even the early seasons, except for a joke or two here and there.
Quote
I consider "When Aliens Attack" to get a free pass on Fry's maxim, btw. The reason being that the destruction of NNY is something that can be fixed. Killing your main character by dropping him out of a spaceship is not something that you should be able to undo offscreen without at least an attempt at explaining.
This is very hypocritical, either you hate continuity being broken or you don't, you can't pick and choose. Plus, Fry obviously wasn't killed, he's fine in the next episode.
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I might watch the first act again sometime soon, but it'll be another while before I sit through the whole of Cryonic Woman unless I've got a notepad and an itchy freeze-frame finger to write down a list of everywhere I feel it could've been done a lot better.
Because clearly you can pull a better episode out of your ass, huh
The Cryonic Woman is a shit episode, and everyone who likes any part of it can go eat shit.
If this is a serious post, I have no idea how you are even a fan of Futurama at all.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #37 on: 07-07-2011 15:25 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2011 15:34 »

[After the mods censored and deleted an earlier post wherein I dared to disagree with totalnerduk, I've since taken the precaution to copy my posts into a doc file to preserve them. I'm glad that I did, because when futurefreak created this new thread and moved "The Cryonic Woman" posts into it, he neglected to include my following post...]

EDIT: And by the way, despite some similar opinions/arguments, I hope this post doesn't come off as dickish as the one above...

I don't believe that I should have to sugarcoat my opinions or criticisms, especially when the person I'm refuting has the audacity to say this:

That is why Rebirth doesn't deserve to be called crap when you're defending Cryonic Woman, and why Cryonic Woman is practically impossible to defend IMO.

totalnerduk basically told flesheatingbull that he had no right to call "Rebirth" crap because he defended "The Cryonic Woman", which totalnerduk considers to be "practically impossible to defend".

That is the perfect example of what I was referring to when I posted this:

Do you know how often I've had my opinions scoffed at because someone basically said "But you liked The Cryonic Woman, therefore you're wrong."

What about totalnerduk's statement that "Rebirth doesn't deserve to be called crap when you're defending Cryonic Woman". Do you consider that to be dickish, DotheBartman?

[Edit]

Actually, this is an even "better" example of the intolerance of and prejudice against anyone with a positive opinion about "The Cryonic Woman" than even totalnerduk's statement.

The Cryonic Woman is a shit episode, and everyone who likes any part of it can go eat shit.

roll eyes
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #38 on: 07-07-2011 15:29 »

I am really not perturbed by any continuity issues in this episode. I don't think any of them are the most egregious by far. I mean, the loss of all the money in Popplers bothers me more, and that by no means bothers me enough to move Popplers from its top-20 position on my list. I love the first two acts of this episode so much, and I think the third is just meh - not terrible.

I will gleefully go eat shit now. smile
Aki

Professor
*
« Reply #39 on: 07-07-2011 15:34 »

Boy, is Soryn paranoid. YES, futurefreak would really go against you for disagreeing with tnuk. It's not like anyone else has ever disagreed with tnuk about anything.
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