1950s Sci Fi

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I just watched The Creature From The Black Lagoon. I thought it was very good, well worth the time.

Show spoiler

It's more rigorous scientifically that I ever expected it to be. I'm not a scientist myself, but the geology terminology, the banter between scientists, the speech about why the study of biology can help technology, the relationship between findings and funding, all of that rang true. The speech midway through the movie about how we know as little about the underwater world as we do about outer space was in essence the same speech that's been given within the past decade or so by supporters of oceanography.

The empathetic core of the movie, in that preserving life, even life that's different than ours, is more important than short term gain, seemed very modern.

Some moments, especially when the monster suddenly appeared underwater, were genuinely surprising.

Other parts were clearly dated; the sole woman on the expedition, although she's given a good start as an equal to the men, becomes a kind of siren - that is, she mainly functions as someone who screams when the monster appears. The good guy is too good, and the bad guy is too bad.

Overall I'm glad I watched it.

[Reply #1 on:]

I saw the 3-D version in the theater, back in the 80s when the whole 3-D movie fad came around again.  (It's come back around a few more times since then.)

The good guy is too good, and the bad guy is too bad.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this as a complaint.  In my opinion, movies need more of this, not less.

[Reply #2 on:]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this as a complaint.  In my opinion, movies need more of this, not less.

I don't disagree, I tend to think that there's too much reliance on using the moral greyzone as a proxy for complexity.

In the case of The Creature from the Black Lagoon, though, I guess my problem was more that it was too obvious, from the outset, how the characters would react to any moral choice.

Too add to the original theme, I just watched 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers', which was also good. The commentary on conformism was nicely done.

(I'll go ahead and skip the 'spoiler' tag here, it's seeming a bit ridiculous to use it for movies that are >50 years old...)

One part I don't get, though, is the mechanism that the pods use to take people over. Through most of the movie, it seems like it relies on the pods growing into a physical replica of the person. But, in the part where Becky (the main character's love interest) converts into an alien, there's no pod involved: she just has to fall asleep to be converted. It's unclear to me whether the alien takeover is a physical replacement by pod-people, or a kind of mental takeover of individuals after they fall asleep.

[Reply #3 on:]

In the case of The Creature from the Black Lagoon, though, I guess my problem was more that it was too obvious, from the outset, how the characters would react to any moral choice.

Sure, I get what you're saying.  The movie doesn't really try to build suspense about what moral choices the characters will make.  I guess they figured that the audience wasn't really there to see that; the audience was there to see, you know, the Creature.  There's a good guy, and there's a bad guy, and that's enough.

That wouldn't really fly with audiences nowadays.  Audiences nowadays expect a bit more characterization than that, which can still be done without, as you said, using a moral greyzone as a substitute for complexity.  I suppose in that respect "dated" is an apt description after all.

I wish that I could comment on Invasion of the Body Snatchers, but I really don't remember any details about it.  Actually, I'm not sure if I've ever seen it, although I know what it's about, so no worries on the decades old spoiler.  I should probably watch that sometime and see if I remember having seen any of it.

[Reply #4 on:]

It's worth the time to rewatch, I'd say. I'd put 'Body Snatchers' in the category of serious sci-fi; it's not an action or comedy, instead it's more of a thriller with underlying social commentary themes. In that way it's similar to the original 'The day the earth stood still'.

Once nice thing about both movies is that they rely so little on special effects, yet still manage to tell sci-fi stories.

[Reply #5 on:]

... and on to Forbidden Planet now. It really, really plays like a precursor to Star Trek TOS, in the best possible way. The setup is similar too to some TNG (especially the episode 'The Survivors'). Leslie Nielson playing a serious character is a bonus, he looks very different, but his voice gives him away.

[Reply #6 on:]

Oh, yeah...compare the style of Forbidden Planet with that of The Menagerie, with all the footage from the original pilot. Especially the inertial damping pads to the transporter pads.

[Reply #7 on:]

Leslie Nielson playing a serious character

Serious roles were what he was known for before Airplane!; that was the joke.  The joke was so funny that he's now remembered more for Airplane! and his later comedic roles than for his earlier serious ones.

[Reply #8 on:]

Yeah, I grew up with him as a slapstick guy and I remember watching an old episode of MASH where he plays a megalomaniac commanding officer and it totally took me by surprise until I learned he started out doing drama

[Reply #9 on:]

He did a good job at it in Forbidden Planet, at least. He played the role convincingly. There was even a sense of humor where appropriate. No more than you'd expect from any other dramatic actor, but it was there. It's tempting to say that his character in this movie displayed more of a sense of humor than his character in Police Squad.

[Reply #10 on:]

I've only watched it twice, and not back in the day. And to me, "back in the day" is watching the original pilot of Lost In Space have its premier on broadcast television. In glorious Black & White, mind you! I still curse it for introducing me to the awfulness known as the "cliffhanger" ending. Bastards!

But yes, Forbidden Planet holds up surprisingly well. I also loved Nielson in Hot Shots. A couple of the gags are epic.

[Reply #11 on:]

Leslie Nielson playing a serious character

Serious roles were what he was known for before Airplane!; that was the joke.  The joke was so funny that he's now remembered more for Airplane! and his later comedic roles than for his earlier serious ones.

You are describing what is known as Leslie Nielsen Syndrome on TV Tropes.

I know nothing of 1950s sci-fi but am an avid reader of TV Tropes, so I thought I'd share that little tidbit. I'll see myself out now...

[Reply #12 on:]

And he has the same name as the syndrome!  What are the odds?

I hope that anyone who clicks on those links didn't have any other plans for the evening.

[Reply #13 on:]

I watched The Attack Of The Giant Leeches recently. It’s available for free on archive.org here.

It’s serviceable as entertainment, but far from being a classic. It plays very much like formulaic exercise in the genre, more focussed on selling tickets than any invention or attempt at artistry. In a way, that makes it interesting, providing a deeper sense of the zeitgeist of the time.

Another recent watch was the 1950s version of The Fly. That was far better. Two scenes, both involving otherworldly creatures wailing, were genuinely unnerving. Vincent Price was fantastic, and it was fun to see the aspects of his character and voice that Maurice Lamarche used in his voice work. It was also was set in my home country, which was a bonus (though not filmed here, judging by the state of the garden in what was supposed to be spring).

[Reply #14 on:]

When Planets Collide When Worlds Collide (1951) is exciting, dramatic, relatively scientifically accurate (slowing down as well as speeding up!), and presents plausible human reactions. It's the most egregious of any 1950s sci fi movie I've seen so far in terms of its cultural awareness. I think it would do well in a remake, if its flaws were corrected.

Edit: name

[Reply #15 on:]

Waaaay back in grade school I read the sci-fi novel "When Worlds Collide", and recall a description of a green sky. Related?

* * Tachy highlights the title/year and right-clicks to search with duckduckgo * *

Oh, perhaps it was released with slightly different titles in different regions. IMDB lists When Worlds Collide "As a new star and planet hurtle toward a doomed Earth, a small group of survivalists frantically work to complete the rocket which will take them to their new home".

I do remember it being a good read for a geeky, science-minded kid.

[Reply #16 on:]

You are indeed correct, it was 'When Worlds Collide', which is based on a book with the same name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Worlds_Collide

[Reply #17 on:]

Oh, cool. Wasn't dissin'; just curious

I had some analog of adhd as a kid, sketching imaginary planetary star bases in the margins of my notebooks in school, and sci-fi and daydreaming was about all that helped me cope. Pulp sc-fi anthologies (all I could afford) introduced me to some of the '50s giants. Early Heinlein, Silverberg, etc.

And I'm trying to recall when I read When Worlds Collide. 8th or 9th grade, perhaps. I was born lacking much of a visual imagination, but deeply immersive sci-fi takes me closest to 'seeing' what I'm reading.

[Reply #18 on:]

I had some analog of adhd as a kid, sketching imaginary planetary star bases in the margins of my notebooks in school, and sci-fi and daydreaming was about all that helped me cope.

Wait, didn't everyone do that? 

[Reply #19 on:]

Only PEELers

For the most part, the Old School sci-fi authors' writing was just too, idk, 'formal' to me and I never got into Doc ee Smith and others...with some very notable exceptions, such as Asimov, Norton, and Kieth Laumer. Laumer wrote great tongue-in-cheek, ikd, I guess you'd call them police procedurals, but set in a future galaxy-spanning diplomatic corp. I was, and am, more into stories closer to the styles of the "Killer 'Bs'", Ben Bova, David Brin, Greg Bear, Steven Baxter, and Vernor Vinge (I know, I know, but he's in their 'B' club), but don't have anything close to a favorite author.

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I didn't actually read a lot of science fiction as a kid,* unless comic books count.**  I did watch a lot of sci-fi movies, and an awful lot of sci-fi shows on television.

* To be honest, I still haven't read a lot.  I mean, I've read some, but looking back, it's really not that much, at least not actual novels.  I have read a lot of short stories, though.

** They totally do, by the way.

[Reply #21 on:]

I read a couple of Doc Smith novels. The language, technology and science were a bit dated, but they were still entertaining. The protagonist having to manufacture a vacuum tube from scratch to repair the ship was a plot point that appealed to me, given my interest in electronics. The female lead came over as a swooning damsel in distress at times, so that dated it too: Ripley she wasn't, unfortunately.

Asimov, Gordon R. Dickson (Dorsai), Harry Harrison (The Stainless Steel Rat; To The Stars trilogy), are some of my favourites, but Larry Niven is still number one in my book. It's a bit after the golden age, but Ringworld is a classic.

[Reply #22 on:]

I've never read Harrison, though of course I've heard of The Stainless Steel Rat. Interesting that you mention Niven. I completely detest his collaborator, Pournelle, but I've been thoroughly entertained by novels they've written together. Couldn't even guess at the number of Dickson's books that I have. <looks> Eighteen

[Reply #23 on:]

I usually avoid delving too deeply into an author's politics, beliefs, etc., just incase. Don't meet your heroes, and all that. That said, there are some that I actively avoid. I was given a copy of Battlefield Earth as a gift by someone who was unaware of L. Ron H.'s association with a certain movement, and read some of it out of curiosity. Honestly, I've read Futurama fan fiction that was better, and didn't get anywhere near to finishing it.

Harrison is often associated with humour due to The Rat, but he also did serious stuff. The To the Stars trilogy was clearly influenced by 1984, and the second book includes a novel solution to inhabiting a planet with extremely variable -- but predictable -- seasons.

[Reply #24 on:]

idk anything about Pournelle's politics...I just read some of his columns back in the early personal computing days and immediately saw that he was a pompous ass. And I did read one of his solo novels back in the day but don't think I made it very far in.

The first sci-fi book I ever checked out of a public library was by Lester Del Ray, and apparently the first book in a series...who knew? "Step to the Stars", from '54 I think I just read.. All I recall of it was that it went into plausible scientific detail describing the construction of a station in Earth orbit. I was 12 and It was also the first book I ever checked out of the Adult section of the Bangor Public Library, as I'd previously been relegated to the kid's section.

The first sci-fi book I ever bought was in third grade, and it was a "sexed-up" cover and title of Andre Norton's "Star Man's Son", becoming "Daybreak: 2250AD" (both titles from the memory of a 134-year-old geezer).

[Reply #25 on:]

Andre Norton also wrote Quag Keep, which has the distinction of being the first Dungeons & Dragons novel ever published (not that I've ever read it, mind you).

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Them! (1954) was great. The pacing is good, even modern - it's clearly setup to be a popular, popcorn movie. Suspension of disbelief is easy to maintain, there's one leap made, everything else follows from that. My only real issue in that department was the stakes & the timelines given, which definitely seemed exaggerated. The characters almost uniformly make rational decisions, no enforced stupidity to further the plot.

It was fun seeing what is obviously the inspiration for some of the creatures in Fallout 3, as well as a scene which I suspect served as inspiration for a section in the movie Alien (the bit where someone crawls through a utility tunnel with a flamethrower to find a monster was quite similar to the bit in Alien where the captain crawls through the ducts to find the alien).

[Reply #27 on:]

I caught Teenagers from Outer Space (1959) on television a few weeks ago.  I've seen it once before.  It's a great example of low-budget 1950s sci-fi.  The spaceship looks decent enough, I suppose, but the monster (a giant lobster) looks fake even by 1950s movie standards.  They seem to have run out of whatever little money they did have in the special effects budget, because most of the action in the film's climax takes place off-screen and we just see the characters reacting to what's happening instead.  Despite this, the story is pretty good, and I think that the film is worth watching.

I also feel the need to mention that this film has no connection to the 1980s role-playing game of the same name, although I did once run a session of the game where the aliens from the film appeared.  Fortunately, one of the players managed to trick them into flying their spaceship into the sun, thus saving the earth from invasion before third period math class.

[Reply #28 on:]

I caught Teenagers from Outer Space (1959) on television a few weeks ago.  I've seen it once before.  It's a great example of low-budget 1950s sci-fi.  The spaceship looks decent enough, I suppose, but the monster (a giant lobster) looks fake even by 1950s movie standards.  They seem to have run out of whatever little money they did have in the special effects budget, because most of the action in the film's climax takes place off-screen and we just see the characters reacting to what's happening instead.  Despite this, the story is pretty good, and I think that the film is worth watching.

I also feel the need to mention that this film has no connection to the 1980s role-playing game of the same name, although I did once run a session of the game where the aliens from the film appeared.  Fortunately, one of the players managed to trick them into flying their spaceship into the sun, thus saving the earth from invasion before third period math class.

I'll try to find that. Kind of surprising that there aren't more movies with lobsters as villains (other than Futurama itself, more-or-less). They're basically giant underwater bugs, and bugs are frightening things at a primal level. You can imagine something like The Abyss, but with supersized submarine-chopping lobsters as the enemy.

one of the players managed to trick them into flying their spaceship into the sun, thus saving the earth from invasion before third period math class.

Hah, nice. Maybe, if there was a lob-splosion when they hit the sun, the earth could be showered with nicely cooked bits of lobster meat for years to come.

[Reply #29 on:]

I'll try to find that.

It's not hard to find online.

There's also an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000 where Joel and the bots watch the movie, although I haven't seen that one myself.