BoJack Horseman

[Reply #40 on:]

New season is out!

3 episodes in. Good stuff so far. Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter make the best duo for anything.

[Reply #41 on:]

alright i kind of hated season 3 a little bit

it tried to fall back on what made the first two seasons good. the arcs and moods all felt the same. there was nothing to them, and having them end up feel so similar to the first two seasons really devalues even the original arcs for me.

it suffered from the same slow beginning of season 1 and the same weak storyline of season 2.

there were so many little things that threw it off for me and i'm going to write something more about it later, but in short i guess season 3 just didn't feel alive to me. it felt like they were playing it safe, not trying to change anyone's viewpoints or make anyone introspective.

not to mention the story was fucking all over the place. they dedicated way too much time to meaningless drivel, and neglected to give actual ongoing issues enough attention. it ended up just cutting off all the sub-plots and wrapping them up tidily in a series of clips in the last 10 minutes of the season.

I'm disappointed.

[Reply #42 on:]

I haven't quite finished yet but I feel like the humour has been consistently on-point so far.

"Motherf-" *next episode* "-ucker!"

WTF was up with that underwater episode though. That shit was fukken horrible.

[Reply #43 on:]

Alright, I finally finished the season.

I can't say that I entirely agree with your perspective, Motor Oil. I mean, I guess I understand that the overall arc kind of fluttered around a bit and didn't have a huge amount of focus, but it still delivered in the surreal comedy, over-the-top social commentary, goofy animal jokes and bold, depression direction. I was actually kind of shocked that

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They killed off Sarah Lynn after she'd been the source of all the drug-fueled fun since season 1.

As much as I love it, I do hope the show doesn't go on too much longer, however. Maybe let it rest after season four, because I feel like there's only so much they can do with the "BoJack is a cynical self-centred asshole who projects his misery onto everyone and ruins their lives" premise before it starts wearing thin.

Seriously though... the fuck was with that underwater episode, and why does everyone on the internet think it was anything more than abysmal.

[Reply #44 on:]

Having an episode take place in such a different atmosphere and almost entirely without dialogue was a really cool idea. Early on in the episode I was pretty pleased to see

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Kelsey*

again. I liked a lot of the visual gags and the episode had a lot of ideas that could've been made into something really cool.

But as soon as the actual story for the episode kicked in, the entire thing went down the drain.

*

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more like Kelp-sey because it's an underwater episode and kelp grows underwater haha amirite?

Later I did find it funny that

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Princess Carolyn was hesitant to date a mouse despite the fact that her last boyfriend was a rabbit.

[Reply #45 on:]

I recently watched first and second season of Bojack Horseman. It definitely had weak start, as I didn't really like characters or humor that much initially, but after first half of the season 1 or whatever I do like the humor and recurring jokes. And it's kind of amazing how annoying Mr. Peanutbutter was first and how entertaining character he became.

Overall not amazing, but I like the really dark and depressing moments and the ending song. Also interesting social commentary like the chicken episode.

I've watched three episodes of season 3 and so far I like it, comparable to season 2.

[Reply #46 on:]

I've enjoyed this show a lot lately - dark and 'real' without being pretentious. I like it.

Season One felt like an extended pilot to me; meanwhile, Season Two feels like the 'actual show'. The former introduced the majority of the recurring cast, shined a very bright light on Bojack's personal dilemmas, and had a very interesting overarching storyline. You'd practically swear it was an adaptation of some kind, based alone on how many different routes it takes to direct us to the one major point.

Meanwhile, Season Two is much less 'serial', far more 'episodic'. We know the cast now, we understand the underlying themes - so, it's time to play around and have some fun with what's there.

In a sense, I feel like the crew never expected to get past a first run. The season feels so uniquely complete and narrative compared to it's follow-up; I highly prefer the ongoing style of the first season, but for what it's worth, the second's more 'typical' style is still as funny and entertaining as ever. The drama is unfortunately (unfortunately) far less impactful, but the quality is a bit more consistent.

Only episode I really haven't liked much so far was the Christmas Special. Cute idea, but didn't end up very funny. I wish Bojack and Todd had riffed a bit more; those little cut-aways were fun.

[Reply #47 on:]

Yes. But why do humans live with animal humans?  Which one is the oppressive plutocracy?  Does it endorse bestiality?  Is that what the show is?  Also, why is Phoebe allowed to have a job anymore?  Is Bojack a horse?

[Reply #48 on:]

Well, he's more horse than a man. But he's also more man than a horse.

[Reply #49 on:]

I still need to get around to watching this. Can somebody give me a potted summary of how this is different from everything else on TV?

[Reply #50 on:]

My questions, although really more facetious on my part, kind if explain the differences.  The show itself does to 80s 90s family sitcoms what Futurama did to 50s sci fi.  The show isn't about those sitcoms, but rather about actors who were stars of such sitcoms after a few decades; most specifically Bojack who is a washed up actor of the most famous (fictional) 90s sitcom and his life as a drug and sex addict who desires to find that innocent magic he once had.  He's also much like Job from Arrested Development if Job had an ounce of shame and pathos.  It's hard to describe the show further; animals humans and humans living in a society together (with no explanation on this).  The show itself does tend to focus on the relationships between characters and in a rather realistic, objective (ie no one is either good or bad, based on perspective/emotion, everyone does shitty things, but why?), and humorous way.  It's a lot like watching many comedians talking about seeing things in their lives.  I'd recommend binge watching it because it's serial or episodic--I haven't seen S3 and I also can't recommend any specific episodes.  I enjoyed it, and it actually made me laugh out loud, that gets harder for me to do as I become more desensitized.

Not sure if any of that helps, but there's a recommend for you--also something I don't do often.

[Reply #51 on:]

I'm living on the success of my past and I don't want that to go away. I'm afraid to try something new, because I know I'm not good enough. I've done stupid, shitty things that hurt myself and others around me and I'm not sure if I can change. I don't know if I can let myself be happy, but I need someone to tell me I'm a good person.

[Reply #52 on:]

I still need to get around to watching this. Can somebody give me a potted summary of how this is different from everything else on TV?

To add onto what winna said, it's got a fairly surreal vibe to it. It's a very unusual blend of drama and comedy.

And as many others have said, the first half of season one is quite polarising, so keep that in mind if you decide to watch it.

[Reply #53 on:]

I'm living on the success of my past and I don't want that to go away. I'm afraid to try something new, because I know I'm not good enough. I've done stupid, shitty things that hurt myself and others around me and I'm not sure if I can change. I don't know if I can let myself be happy, but I need someone to tell me I'm a good person.

Okay.  I like you alright QNF.

[Reply #54 on:]

Yes. But why do humans live with animal humans?  Which one is the oppressive plutocracy?  Does it endorse bestiality?  Is that what the show is?  Also, why is Phoebe allowed to have a job anymore?  Is Bojack a horse?

The logistics of the BoJack Horseman universe don't really matter, as the design is a thematic choice rather than a narrative one. The aesthetics of the show perfectly encapsulate the themes of the show (with everything being bright and colourful on the outside, as a cover for the toxicity that bubbles underneath), as does the setting of Hollywood in general - on a show that juxtaposes dumb animal puns and ever-snowballing absurdity with shockingly serious dramatic storytelling, emotionally affecting imagery and one of the most human examinations of depression - making it all just a metaphor for the series itself and vice-versa. Essentially, BoJack's world is wonderful and delightful on the surface to serve as contrast to the abyss of sadness underneath, and the choice of making the characters anthropomorphic animals is the ultimate encapsulation of this.

It's all basically prismatic storytelling - if you can picture light shone through a prism, with every single theme and element being a reflection of - and a response to - ever other part. For example, every character is both an inverse and a reflection of every other character. Mr. Peanutbutter has had a very similar career to BoJack, but has the exact opposite disposition. Diane is a young BoJack - roughly the same age as Todd - who shares BoJack's depression and self-destructive elements, while still possessing ambition and potential. That same ambition and potential is shared by Todd and Princess Caroline - though intellectually, Todd is more on Mr. Peanutbutter's level, and so on. It's all SO perfectly designed from a writing perspective, and this flawless design is part of the reason I love the show so dearly. No other show could pull off such tonal dissonance and still be so brilliant.

Annnyway, here's my verdict on season 3...

It's no secret that BoJack Horseman is my favourite show currently on the air (and would easily crack a "top 10 shows of all time" list for me). Season 2 made BoJack my #1 show of 2015 - beating out other highly acclaimed shows like Fargo, Better Call Saul and Nathan for You - so I've been waiting with baited breath for the new season. Annnd while I loved it a LOT, I don't feel it quite surpassed the second season...

The structure of the season felt a little off to me, particularly given how many stand-alone episodes we had in the first half versus the more serialisation-heavy episodes of the second half (whereas seasons one and two both established their arcs early, paid them off late and saved the middle run for the more stand-alone episodes). I didn't quite feel like I was witnessing a cohesive narrative until the final third of the season, and as such, it made it a little harder for me to get invested in the plot. Perhaps the first two thirds of the season will be more effective upon rewatching?

Having said that, I did LOVE the ridiculously convoluted way in which all the disparate throwaway plot points came together in the finale, and this season gave us three of the show's all-time greatest episodes: Fish Out of Water (episode 4), Brrap Brrap Pew Pew (episode 6), and That's Too Much, Man! (episode 11). Fish Out of Water is easily one of the most ambitious things I've ever seen attempted in the medium of television, while Brrap Brrap Pew Pew was essentially this season's Hank After Dark - and I mean that as a HUGE compliment. I loved that the show was able to tackle a topic like abortion in such a hilarious way while not passing any judgement on Diane and Mr. Peanutbutter for their choice. And, of course, That's Too Much, Man! had some obvious similarities to Downer Ending and Escape From LA, both of which are among the show's best installments.

Other thoughts:
* BoJack going way the fuck off the deep end was genuinely painful to watch, as was you-know-who's death. The last few episodes of this season were absolutely brutal.
* I didn't really care for the whole plot with BoJack's publicist. The BoJack/Wanda relationship last season was so beautifully executed, and this story just felt like a pale imitation of the emotional beats that plot was hitting. The storyline with Mr. Peanutbutter's brother didn't really do much for me, either.
* I'm always happy to see Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter in business together, and the scene in the first episode with Mr. Peanutbutter and his publicist had me in tears laughing. Watching Cabracadabra slowly turn into the exact opposite idea it started out as was also very amusing, as was the return of Margo Martindale. It's the odd specificity of the BoJack universe that makes it so, so funny to me.
* Another huge laugh was the whiteboard with Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter's Oscar picks - SO many great jokes in there (I especially loved The Leisure Class being nominated for Best Cinematography, and "Tom Hardy (the cat version)").
* Having said that, I LOVED the writers' decision to reveal Todd as asexual. It's definitely a group who've had very little representation on tv, and it completely fits in with everything we've seen of Todd's character so far (I rewatched seasons 1 and 2 going into this, and it actually occurred to me that we'd never seen a romantic plot involving Todd, other than his long distance relationship with the phone scammer).
* I kinda wish they'd kept JD Sallinger as a recurring character in some capacity. I like that the show always keeps moving forward, but they don't need to hit the reset button on everything each season.
* This is the first season that doesn't end with a clear indicator of what's next for BoJack's character. Obviously a conscious choice on the writers' parts, but still felt like an interesting thing to note nonetheless.
* I'm nowhere near as excited as the "Mr. Peanutbutter runs for governor of California" plot as I should be. It... just kinda came out of nowhere.
* It's probably also worth noting that I binge watched season 3 in two sittings over a period of about 26 hours, so the whole thing's still kind of a blur to me. I will definitely be rewatching it sometime soon!

[Reply #55 on:]

Yes, but is Bojackson a horse, man?

[Reply #56 on:]

Season 3 was a bit higher than 2, for me, mostly because it felt like the writing was more 'honed in' on a balance between Season 1's storytelling and Season 2's comedy.

The shaky one-off start of the season was a little disheartening, but it quickly picked up. I'm really loving seeing Bojack actually collapse... especially because we see him actively try to fix his situation, but the reality of it all continually pulls him back to a less 'Horsing Around', more upsetting status quo. It's a bit ironic, if that word can really describe it.

My favorite of the season was That's Too Much, Man. It really felt like a head-on metaphor for Bojack's life - if not for the audience, then for Bojack himself. The whole episode is probably my favorite 'dramatic' one since Season 1.

I will say, on the more critical side, I do think the cast has become a little large. Not that there can't be a variety of characters, it's just that it can be hard to have so much going at once. For example, the Rabbit agent, Bojack's Oscar helper, the creator of The Bojack Show... just feels a bit 'full', personally.

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How 'bout that season finale, though? Was that Bojack's daughter? Ita wouldn't be the first time they expanded on a joke.

[Reply #57 on:]

I really enjoyed this season, but I think it was a bit of a drop in quality over two.   I think it's become a little bit too self aware at times, and the first half of the season reminded me of season 1 where the show wasn't sure what it wanted to be, before the show's main message of actions having consequences for everyone began to kick in, and characters who thought they could get away with Archer or Peter Griffin or modern Homer sociopathic behaviour would have negative results, such as their loved ones not wanting to be around them anymore. 

But the character designs were gorgeous as ever, though I wish the undersea episode had more action in the big city, rather then in a plain highway.   Attempt to save on budget, maybe?

[Reply #58 on:]

Spacefish!  You're alive! 

[Reply #59 on:]

I've officially made plans for a friend and I to become Bojack and Mr. PeanutButter for this upcoming Halloween.

Or, creepy horse and dog pals. Depends on who'll recognize us.

[Reply #60 on:]

I enjoyed season 3 about as much as I enjoyed 1 and 2.

It felt somewhat lesser than the others but I think that's just because the show isn't new any more.

There were a lot of loose ends too. Remember that recorded BoJack revealing how he wasn't even in Secretariat? I know his PR person said she'd dealt with it but that was a really strange tangent to go off on to say it never pays off in any capacity. Season 3 had a lot of that.

I was absolutely in love with episode 4 until the stuff with the seahorse baby kicked in. That turned it into some weird Chaplin pastiche whereas, before, it was this haunting exploration of loneliness and the connections we make with others, clearly very inspired by Lost in Translation.

[Reply #61 on:]

I still stumped as to why that particular episode is popular in the first place. Silent stories can be great if done right, but it needs to have a decent story in the first place.

[Reply #62 on:]

Oh Mr Peanutbutter, you are such a Zoey!

[Reply #63 on:]

As I said, I think it started as a fairly haunting exploration of some of Bojack's most defining elements (his loneliness, his general unhappiness and guilt that he feels for not being a better person).
That might not be hugely plot heavy. It was set as much more of a character piece. I think the idea of doing that in silence is great.

As I say, I just feel like they betrayed their initial concept part-way through to do some silly Looney Tunes antics.

[Reply #64 on:]

That's the juxtaposition that haunts us all through this particular expanse of life.

Also, is it just me or does anyone else feel utterly alone and on drugs when they watch netflix?  The whole fucking channel is kind of depressing, like everyone in the whole fuckinh world suddenly died and suddenly it's your responsibility to find some cancelled 20 year old tv series to watch.

[Reply #65 on:]

Season 4 is here! I finished it and it might be my favourite season so far.

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It's great to see a season end with BoJack being kind of happy for a change. On the flip side, all the other main characters (excluding Todd) seem miserable.

The twist with Hollyhock being BoJack's brother was excellent, and all the flashback sequences give a lot of insight as to why Beatrice was such a toxic horse (and justifies none of it. I was still basically clapping when BoJack threw her doll off the balcony while she was screaming)

A lot of the comedy was on-point. I especially liked the gun-control episode. This show always goes absolutely nuts with the political satire. I loved the Governor B-plot as well, including the nonsense about Woodchuck's hands and the avocado toast.

Super happy the see that this show hasn't lost its steam, and I hope it eventually goes out on a high note.

[Reply #66 on:]

I'm watching season 3 right now!  City of the Pacific Ocean, wow.

[Reply #67 on:]

I feel for Mr. Peanutbutter. Why is he so horrible at love despite being such a good boy?

[Reply #68 on:]

Is that a S4 observation, Frida?

As for the answer, he's a bit oblivious, a bit egotistical, and a bit weak emotionally.  He clearly has a variation of social anxiety which he appears to be battling and hiding most of the time.  So, with a lover, he wants to do right, but he hasn't thought through it far enough to reach better actions for his partner, and he's afraid of doing something damaging to the relationship.

Those are just some of my guesses.  Probably wrong.

[Reply #69 on:]

Doggy doggy what now?

[Reply #70 on:]

Is that a S4 observation, Frida?

As for the answer, he's a bit oblivious, a bit egotistical, and a bit weak emotionally.  He clearly has a variation of social anxiety which he appears to be battling and hiding most of the time.  So, with a lover, he wants to do right, but he hasn't thought through it far enough to reach better actions for his partner, and he's afraid of doing something damaging to the relationship.

Yes. I gotta say Season Four is so far the best season. Is everyone up-to-date here?

All the girls Mr. Peanutbutter has married are all bitches, & not the dog kind. He's such a cool guy & could get any girl. He doesn't understand Diane; he never will make her happy; Diane can never be happy.

[Reply #71 on:]

I'm only up to season 3, but don't mind me.

I also think happiness is over valued.  Nobody is happy all of the time, and it's kind of silly to measure that as the status quo, neh?

[Reply #72 on:]

I'm only up to season 3, but don't mind me.

I also think happiness is over valued.  Nobody is happy all of the time, and it's kind of silly to measure that as the status quo, neh?

That is true. But a huge part of Bojack Horseman is about finding happiness & fulfillment. The only character that I could say has achieved personal fulfillment is Lisa Gecko, but that's because we don't know her. The character who is actively trying to better her life is Princess Carolyn, but even she struggles.

Maybe the better word is fulfillment instead of happiness. Diane doesn't know what she wants. She doesn't want family, she has no passion, & she doesn't have the patience or stomach for charity work.

What's stopping you from catching up winna?

[Reply #73 on:]

Yes, fulfillment is probably better than happiness.  That's not too hard to achieve, just do stuff and be glad you have stuff to do that you do.

It's against the forum rules for me to discuss how I watch a lot of things probably.

Bojack doesn't come on public broadcast.  It's no big deal though, I have loads of time to consume media, always neat stuff waiting to be observed.

Your observations were pretty cool.  Thanks for the conversation.

[Reply #74 on:]

Yes, fulfillment is probably better than happiness.  That's not too hard to achieve, just do stuff and be glad you have stuff to do that you do.

It's against the forum rules for me to discuss how I watch a lot of things probably.

Bojack doesn't come on public broadcast.  It's no big deal though, I have loads of time to consume media, always neat stuff waiting to be observed.

Your observations were pretty cool.  Thanks for the conversation.

No Netflix? That's a shame. Would you cord-cut?

Mr. Peanutbutter unfortunately sums up life:

The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning; it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense and eventually, you'll be dead.

The conversation was my pleasure.

[Reply #75 on:]

winna can't cut a cord he doesn't have

[Reply #76 on:]

Netflix is alright.  I only have public broadcast.  I net through my phone.

[Reply #77 on:]

Netflix is alright.  I only have public broadcast.  I net through my phone.

You're like, the opposite of a sane person.

I've said it before, but Mr. PB is my favourite character (no shit). His never-ending cheerfulness and confidence is so charming. He does seem pretty oblivious to others around him though...

Man, everyone in this show is so miserable.

[Reply #78 on:]

Yes, I'm like some sort of hyper-sane person.  I know.  Television once dominated my life, now I dominate life.

I think Mr. Pb's confidence is actually over compensation, because inside himself he feels like he lacks confidence.  If he were a real person anyways.  He's pretty great character though, good choice by you.

[Reply #79 on:]

Season 4 was an emotional gutpunch because of how similar Beatrice was to my mother at just about every stage of her life.  Eerie.