My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic

[Reply #360 on:]

If the song had lasted that long, would it have driven you mad? I guess I personally never see the point of songs 9/10 times in MLP, especially in this season. The Flim Flam song certainly played on the old-timey sales pitch ideas, sure, but I think it went on too long. Edit it to half the time and you've got a winner I think.

Edit: TotPD!

[Reply #361 on:]

The song was a blatant homage to The Music Man. It doesn't get much better than that.

Also funny were the ponies camping out overnight in line for Apple products.

[Reply #362 on:]

Yes I appreciated The Music Man similarities. Good episode. I didn't learn anything!

[Reply #363 on:]

The liberal use of the idiot ball that was required to get the plot to work spoiled this week's episode slightly for me.

Wait, does Fluttershy sleep in the nude? 

[Reply #364 on:]

I love how the "suitable for children" watermark disappears from the screen at the exact second that that fluttershy gets the covers pulled off her.

The animators have so many in-jokes, you can tell they're having a hell of a lot fun making this.

Bonbon was cloned in the background of this ep.. and it's been a running joke that she has a different voice actress every time she speaks, so she must be part of identical triplets/quadruplets at this point.

"Mine's got rocks in it!"

[Reply #365 on:]

The liberal use of the idiot ball that was required to get the plot to work spoiled this week's episode slightly for me.

Wait, does Fluttershy sleep in the nude? 

Are you referring to the fact that no one realizes there is cheating going on? Cause that happens a lot in this show. Or was it the fact that it took forever for the other ponies to start helping?

[Reply #366 on:]

First off, there was no cheating by any party. Second, the other ponies didn't chip in to help at first because it was a competition between the Apples and the Flim Flam brothers, the others only contributing when it became evident that the Apples stood little to no chance of winning, and after both competitors agreed to allow the extra help -- Applejack clearly recalling the lesson learned in Applebuck Season.

The only instances I can think of that hobbitboy may be referring to are Granny Smith accepting the Flim Flam brothers' challenge, and the Flim Flam brothers' decision to turn off the quality control process of the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000, both of which were ego-influenced snap decisions and quite in-character. The Apples were going to be driven out of business anyway, and the bet was the only way they could get people to continue buying their product -- by creating an artificial monopoly. And once the brothers realized that they had made a mistake in allowing honorary family member assistance, speeding up their own process was the only way for them to win.

In the end, we learn that both quality and quantity are important. And we also see that having actual competition enabled the Apples to find a way to produce enough cider to meet demand. Really, the lesson of this episode should have been "Capitalism works, fillies!"

[Reply #367 on:]

Specific Idido Ball instances:

Granny Smith being goaded into agreeing to a speed competition when she has just finished reminding Apple Bloom that the Apple family way isn't about speed. (Is the irrational reaction to being called chicken an American thing? I've never seen it in real life, only on TV and the movies. It felt contrived in Back to the Future 2 and it feels contrived here, too.)

What's worse is that no one balked when, after the competiton was agreed to, the Flimflam brothers suddenly tacked on the rider that the outcome of the competition would determine who had the sole rights to cider sales in Ponyville. So while the Apple family won't accept a 25% share of cider sales they raise no objection to potentially getting 0%. 

I have no problem with the FF brothers turning off the quality control in an effort to speed up production and win the competition. In a quantity-based competition it seems like a clever strategy to me. But once they've won and sent the Apple family packing what do they do? Do they try to sell the cider that the Apple family just made, but they now own? No. Do they try to sell the cider from their own machine which was made before the quality control was turned off? No. What they try to sell is the 'drek' filled with branches and rocks and who-knows what else!

And, of course, if people won't buy your poor quality stock then it stands to reason that they won't be interested in any of the good quality product that you happen to have lying around in large quantites, which prior to today they had been camping out overnight for. 

I would mention that it makes no sense to win a con and then depart without your winnings but since they had only limited barrel carrying capacity I suppose it makes sense in context.

— —

Not Idiot Ball, per se but still…

How does a vague reference to needing the income from cider sales to keep the farm afloat over winter suddenly turn into the immediate transfer of all the land and everything on it when it is only the right to sell cider in Ponyville that has been lost? How far do the borders of Ponyville extend? (Judging by the length of the queues and how long it took RD to fly there the farm/orchard must already be a fair way out from the Ponyville township.) Can't the Apple family just move their cider stand to just over the county line, so to speak? If the Apple family refused to supply them any apples do you think the FF brothers (who, by the way, are conmen rather than businessmen) would go to all the trouble of sourcing, importing, and storing apples just so they could exercise their cider-selling rights in Ponyville?

Why is Apple family business in danger of going under financially without their cider sales? If they have a mortgage what was it needed for? It can't be for the land because Celestia gave that to them when they first arrived. In any case even if they did default on a payment the ownership of the land and the apples would go to whoever was lending the money, not to the competition.

If the Apple family thing is all about quality and taking the time to do a job right why were they confident enough to bet the farm on a quantity competition (where quality, or lack of it, doesn't matter) against opposition they knew nothing about? Okay, so they are the best cider producers in the area but surely Applejack still remembers last week's episode where ten years of dominating the local Ponyville rodeo wasn't good enough to win any of the events in the Canterlot rodeo, i.e. just because you are good at something that doesn't mean there aren't people out there who are better. Applejack's assertion that she didn't learn anything after being taken to the cleaners by con artists really makes me worry about the security of Sweet Apple Acres once Granny Smith passes away.

Finally, Applejack's lying (or at least making statements which are untrue) — it bugged me in The Last Roundup and it bugs me in this episode too. Near the start of the episode she tells the ponies who missed out on cider that the Apple family have done everything they can to maximise their cider production without compromising quality, or words to that effect. Yet at the end of the episode they have, according to Apple Bloom, produced enough cider for all of Ponyville, i.e. they produced more cider in one hour than they had done previously when they had a whole day. This episode shows that Applejack intial statement was technically not correct (the best kind of not correct), i.e. a lie.

— —

P.S. Which one is Flim and which one is Flam?  The song makes 4 references, 2 of which contradict the other 2, and the only other time where they address each other by name is done off-screen, when they're leaving at the end.

[Reply #368 on:]

Specific Idido Ball instances:

I don't consider any of these to be severe enough to actually dampen the episode. Your mileage may vary, though, so I'll just explain to you how I perceived each of these parts of the story.

Granny Smith being goaded into agreeing to a speed competition when she has just finished reminding Apple Bloom that the Apple family way isn't about speed. (Is the irrational reaction to being called chicken an American thing? I've never seen it in real life, only on TV and the movies. It felt contrived in Back to the Future 2 and it feels contrived here, too.)

Not an American thing, but rather, a child-like thing. Considering this is a children's show, Granny Smith's willingness to accept the challenge after being called chicken is intentionally cast in a negative light. As for her agreeing to the speed aspect, that makes sense if you consider the context under which she made the "It's not about the speed" assertion -- namely, after tasting for herself that Flim Flam cider tasted just as good as or better than Apples cider, and as an attempt to support her family's reputation (building on the "quality" theme, since they certainly couldn't boast about quantity).

What's worse is that no one balked when, after the competiton was agreed to, the Flimflam brothers suddenly tacked on the rider that the outcome of the competition would determine who had the sole rights to cider sales in Ponyville. So while the Apple family won't accept a 25% share of cider sales they raise no objection to potentially getting 0%. 

All the Apples are extremely stubborn and hot-headed. Furthermore, after making the initial bet, all four of them had all night to build up their already formidable determination. It was either definitely be driven out of business by accepting Flim and Flam's offer, be definitely driven out of business by Flim and Flam becoming their competitors and eventually stealing all their business, or possibly win a one-time apple-handling competition that would assert their monopoly on the town permanently.

Forget about alcohol, the real debate in the fandom should be about whether Equestria has antitrust laws.

I have no problem with the FF brothers turning off the quality control in an effort to speed up production and win the competition. In a quantity-based competition it seems like a clever strategy to me. But once they've won and sent the Apple family packing what do they do? Do they try to sell the cider that the Apple family just made, but they now own? No. Do they try to sell the cider from their own machine which was made before the quality control was turned off? No. What they try to sell is the 'drek' filled with branches and rocks and who-knows what else!

This does seem stupid, and initially I was surprised that the brothers did this. If you'll kindly give me a moment....

And, of course, if people won't buy your poor quality stock then it stands to reason that they won't be interested in any of the good quality product that you happen to have lying around in large quantites, which prior to today they had been camping out overnight for. 

The other ponies saw clearly what jerks they were after the way they openly mocked the Apples regarding the loss of their livelihood. In front of a whole town of potential customers. Notice how reluctant they all were to buy from Flim and Flam until Applejack explicitly told them to go ahead.

Very subtle, and not so very much an inconsistency or idiot ball as a textbook example of Nice Job Fixing It, Villain.

I would mention that it makes no sense to win a con and then depart without your winnings but since they had only limited barrel carrying capacity I suppose it makes sense in context.

Realizing that they would no longer be able to do business in the area they'd just obtained their monopoly, they had no choice but to leave. With, it occurs to me now, as many barrels of the good cider as they could carry.

Not Idiot Ball, per se but still…

How does a vague reference to needing the income from cider sales to keep the farm afloat over winter suddenly turn into the immediate transfer of all the land and everything on it when it is only the right to sell cider in Ponyville that has been lost? How far do the borders of Ponyville extend? (Judging by the length of the queues and how long it took RD to fly there the farm/orchard must already be a fair way out from the Ponyville township.) Can't the Apple family just move their cider stand to just over the county line, so to speak? If the Apple family refused to supply them any apples do you think the FF brothers (who, by the way, are conmen rather than businessmen) would go to all the trouble of sourcing, importing, and storing apples just so they could exercise their cider-selling rights in Ponyville?

A couple of notes here. One, the Flim Flam brothers were not conponies, at least as far as we could see. As much as Harold Hill would have admired their performance, they never tried to con anyone, but rather, won over the crowd and expertly played on the character flaws of the Apples to obtain what they wanted in a perfectly open manner. Two...

...this is where I continue from where I asked you to give me a moment above. You see, the Flim Flam brothers are businessponies. Smooth-talking, slimy businessponies who wouldn't bat an eye at depriving a family of their home. Why, you ask, did the brothers sell the bad cider? Why, you could add, did they turn off the quality control despite what they could have known would happen?

Simple. We all know that ponies have meaningful names. What do "Flim" and "Flam" have to do with apples, or cider-making, or even magic-mechanical engineering? Nothing. It can be inferred that maybe they were confidence artists, perhaps dabbling in apple-related fraud (note their cutie marks) before now going for something a little more legitimate.

But nothing about this indicates that they know the first thing about making cider themselves. In fact, their skill at manipulating other ponies is so impressive that I speculate they got the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 by making a similar dubious business dealing with an inventor pony during the course of their adventures, and thus they know very little about operating it properly.

This is all just theory, and the episode still works just fine for me with the brothers simply being simultaneously conceited regarding their device, flustered regarding the possibility that they might have lost, and giddy that they just secured a monopoly on one of the largest industries in one of the prominent towns in the vicinity of the Canterlot suburbs.

In fact, that works even better.

Epileptic apple tree cider is tasty, but should only be enjoyed in moderation.

Why is Apple family business in danger of going under financially without their cider sales? If they have a mortgage what was it needed for? It can't be for the land because Celestia gave that to them when they first arrived. In any case even if they did default on a payment the ownership of the land and the apples would go to whoever was lending the money, not to the competition.

Farms require a lot of money to maintain. Without proper funds, the family would be unable afford to tend to the crops and animals, resulting in them being unable to afford repairs on their housing and equipment, making supporting the crops and animals even harder, and eventually requiring them to sell it. As admittedly jarring as it is, I don't believe the Apples would be spiteful enough to let their personal grudge against Flim and Flam prevent them from selling it to them, particularly if the brothers were the only ones with the rights to sell cider nearby.

If the Apple family thing is all about quality and taking the time to do a job right why were they confident enough to bet the farm on a quantity competition (where quality, or lack of it, doesn't matter) against opposition they knew nothing about? Okay, so they are the best cider producers in the area but surely Applejack still remembers last week's episode where ten years of dominating the local Ponyville rodeo wasn't good enough to win any of the events in the Canterlot rodeo, i.e. just because you are good at something that doesn't mean there aren't people out there who are better. Applejack's assertion that she didn't learn anything after being taken to the cleaners by con artists really makes me worry about the security of Sweet Apple Acres once Granny Smith passes away.

Granny Smith accepted the challenge, not Applejack. I can't see Applejack falling for the same trick, but I can see her supporting her family members even if they make questionable decisions.

Finally, Applejack's lying (or at least making statements which are untrue) — it bugged me in The Last Roundup and it bugs me in this episode too. Near the start of the episode she tells the ponies who missed out on cider that the Apple family have done everything they can to maximise their cider production without compromising quality, or words to that effect. Yet at the end of the episode they have, according to Apple Bloom, produced enough cider for all of Ponyville, i.e. they produced more cider in one hour than they had done previously when they had a whole day. This episode shows that Applejack intial statement was technically not correct (the best kind of not correct), i.e. a lie.

Nope, not a lie. A lie requires an untruth and an intent to deceive. In The Last Roundup, she was dishonest (and this was shocking coming from the Element of Honesty, but understandable, because OOC is Serious Business), but used exact words to try and escape having to confess her secret. In this episode, she told the truth and was completely honest. As far as she knew, the Apples were maximizing their production as best they could. Granted, this was wrong, but it was not a lie.

As I pointed out before, it was the competition of Flim and Flam which drove Applejack into considering other ways to boost the family's output. Perhaps now the Apples will consider hiring some helping hooves during the cider season. At any rate, capitalism saves the day!

Who expected a Econ 101 course from a show about pastel cartoon ponies?

P.S. Which one is Flim and which one is Flam?  The song makes 4 references, 2 of which contradict the other 2, and the only other time where they address each other by name is done off-screen, when they're leaving at the end.

Completely intentional, I should think. Their whole game was dazzling everypony and throwing their targets off their guard. Inconsistent names fit perfectly right alongside their fast talking and unabashed flattery.


Daring Do is best pony archaeologist. Rainbow Dash.... Not so much.

[Reply #369 on:]

Daring Do was awesome! Reminds me of my attempt to create a similar character when I was into Neopets back in middle school.

We just need to sit Rainbow Dash down and tell her to get her head out of her ass (haha donkey), because all of her stories would be solved within two minutes if she wasn't such a cocky insecure bitch.

EDIT: Also was it just me or did Daring Do's theme sound reminiscent of Jurassic Park?

[Reply #370 on:]

Perhaps. The music while Rainbow Dash finally contemplates reading the book was almost identical to the book-opening scene from The Neverending Story, though.

Here, you might enjoy this.

[Reply #371 on:]

Is it just all of the Daring Do parts edited together?

[Reply #372 on:]

I must say that it sounds weird hearing the 's' being pronounced in 'fracas'. We say frak-are over here.

On another pronounciation note, am I mis-hearing the Flimflam brothers when they pronounce 'nonpareil' without  the final 'L' (i.e. non-pah-ray)? I hadn't encountered the word until last week but all the dictionaries that I've seen include the 'L' as part of the pronounciation yet I don't hear it at all in the song.

[Reply #373 on:]

I'm pretty sure "Nonpareil" is French and quite frankly (which would be frenchly, wouldn't it?), that language sucks tallywhacker. Words from French tend to have no relation between the spelling and the pronunciation, so you end up with people mispronouncing it all over the place through no fault of their own.

That said, I've always heard nonpareil pronounced with a soft L on the end.

[Reply #374 on:]

I've heard it pronounced both ways before, although most often as "non-pa-rayl". Then again, most often this was in reference to the small chocolate sweets, which might be why Pinkie Pie seemed caught off-guard by the usage of the term.

Is it just all of the Daring Do parts edited together?

Yes. I thought you might like it, because you said you liked her.

[Reply #375 on:]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH-yA8U2XgI&feature=related

[Reply #376 on:]

Doctor Hooves is very splashy when he runs.

Seriously, there's an awful lot of running involved.

[Reply #377 on:]

 How does he feel about tubs of jelly?

[Reply #378 on:]

That was a hilariously creepy video. In any case, here's a cute picture to fix the creepy:


Stolen from Reddit

[Reply #379 on:]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH-yA8U2XgI&feature=related

I found this to be funnier without the volume on. Otherwise it's too much for me, but dammit I couldn't help but watch.

[Reply #380 on:]

Pinkie Pie thinks in stop motion felt animation.

...

I do not find this surprising in the slightest.

[Reply #381 on:]

I didn't like the animation in this last episode. I can't think of a better word except...cartoony...but even more so than usual. Poor Cranky, he just wanted to be left alone.

[Reply #382 on:]

Pinkie Pie always has crazy-ass looney-toons style animation, she's the only character who frequently breaks the laws of physics and the 4th wall on the show.

So, this ep, they naturally went to town with her.. successfully too, the felt tick being held up and the 6 hooves were excellent wtf jarring moments.

Also, Derpy in the snowglobe was one of her best appearances.

Fairly weak episode though, the song took up a lot of time, the plot was short and Pinkie didn't really learn anything.. she was only willing to offer privacy after she'd gotten the smile she wanted.

It's kinda interesting with the established Wendigo's canon from Heart's-warming Eve, where the ponies in Equestria effectively *have* to be friends with each other or become frozen to death by evil spirits. So, it is possible that Pinkie is taking advantage of that... either that, or everyone just accepts her friendship because they know that the alternative will be psycho-pinkie-stalker-from-hell.

I loved the felt animation, not for the animation, but for the hilarious "lampshading the fact that Pinkie Pie IRL would be the most annoying person you'd ever meet" lines that went with it.

Step 1: Unsolicited random crazy song and invasion of personal space!
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Instant and eternal friendship!

[Reply #383 on:]

I think Pinkie Pie learned a very important lesson; one that addressed one of her major character flaws. Just because she succeeded in her original goal doesn't mean that she didn't realize how obnoxious she was being and see the need to change herself for the better.

Keep telling it as it is, Rainbow Dash. Hooray for continuity!

Also, Derpy in the snowglobe was one of her best appearances.

Unfortunately, it looked disturbingly similar to the St. Elsewhere snowglobe.

[Reply #384 on:]

Is that a problem? Also the two buildings don't strike me as being particularly similar.

Show spoiler

 —

I was kind of hoping the lession would turn out to be that there may be some ponies who just don't want to be friends with you and that's alright, too.

Is this (the first 23 seconds of the episode, up to "lets do this") the first time we've seen the interior of Pinkie Pie's bedroom?

Is Pinkie left-handed hooved?  In the Smile, Smile, Smile song she waves to somepony on her left with her left hoof, then she waves to somepony on her right with her left hoof again!

[Reply #385 on:]

Ambihooftrous, surly...

[Reply #386 on:]

Is that a problem? Also the two buildings don't strike me as being particularly similar.

My memory is a little fuzzy on the exact appearance of the snowglobe. Anyway, it's not a problem as much as it resurfaces the Tommy Westphall hypothesis in my mind. (Which basically revolves around the fact that the finale of St. Elsewhere revealed the entire series to have taken place inside said snowglobe in a dream. Taking into account that St. Elsewhere had numerous crossovers with other shows, which in turn had crossovers and allusions to other shows, the vast majority of everything ever on television was therefore inspired by that globe and took place inside that kid's mind.)



Listen to it listen to it listen to it!

[Reply #387 on:]

Didn't realise how sad it was in this part of peel.

You poor souls.

[Reply #388 on:]

[Reply #389 on:]

Do I have to let everybody know about those PMs you sent me having a baby winge asking me to go easy on bronies some months ago?

[Reply #390 on:]

You mean these?

Show spoiler

Worst.
Fanbase.
Ever.

I'm not dismissing your observations, but much of what is spread about the web at large is either trolling or the work of the most devoted of fanatics. Star Trek fans, for the most part, do not redecorate their houses in Enterprise-themes and wear Starfleet uniforms all the time, even though some do. Most Star Wars fans do not typically carry lightsabers everywhere or espouse Jediism as their religion, even though some do.

The MLP fandom is no worse than those two fandoms, with the exception that due to sharing its origin with its meme, MLP has a far larger share of ironic watchers (like you mentioned) and trolls. Unfortunately, the friendly, non-crazy fandom -- which I know from being a member is no worse than PEEL -- is lost in the noise.

I just wanted to say this so that you don't paint broad strokes over a large group of people just because a few are extremely ardent in their obsession. (Or just trolling, like winna.) Frankly, it's a bit insulting -- like if I decided to judge the Futurama fandom based only on what is posted at Rule 34.

I'm not judging it purely on rule 34.

Every website and every message board I go to you can't escape my little pony fans, they're always there and they're always acting like preachy snobs.

Bunch of lunatics.

Can you direct your anti-snobbishness towards them, please, and not the fandom in general? You get those kinds in every group of people -- it's just in some groups they are more prolific than in others. Like I said, lots of meme-followers and trolls here.

I'm not judging it purely on rule 34.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that you were -- I meant that as only an example of a non-representative aspect of the Futurama fandom.

[Reply #391 on:]

You mean these?

Worst.
Fanbase.
Ever.

I'm not judging it purely on rule 34.

Every website and every message board I go to you can't escape my little pony fans, they're always there and they're always acting like preachy snobs.

Bunch of lunatics.

I'm not judging it purely on rule 34.

Yep.

[Reply #392 on:]

Xanfor isn't crying at all; in fact I see no signs of emotional damage at all. I think he's made quite a good argument actually.

[Reply #393 on:]

There's no defending the male group of the fanbase, they're all retarded.

[Reply #394 on:]

^ You should try watching a few episodes, Freako, it's a pretty good show.
I like it for a lot of the same reasons I like Futurama.

[Reply #395 on:]

Oh I have no opinion on the show, It probably could have been good. But the fans have just ruined it for anybody that would possibly want to check it out.

There is no way anybody would want to be associated with terrible pathetic people the majority of the fanbase are.

[Reply #396 on:]

So why come here and ruin it for everyone else who likes the show?

[Reply #397 on:]

Because,

[Reply #398 on:]

Pony name generator:

http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys/namegen/14900/

Mine is Charming Stallion.

[Reply #399 on:]

Mine is Windy Rider

I think it matches the pony I made: