Star Wars: A New Thread

[Reply #520 on:]

Just had a horrible thought.
What if Lucas gets it in his head to insert a scene into A New Hope where Vader recognises R2-D2, and chats to the robot, reminiscing about the time they destroyed the droid command ship together, before excusing himself to go and kill Obi Wan?

...I shouldn't have articulated that. He'll probably do it now.

There's probably room then for a "No, C-3PO, I am your creator!"

/edit - TOTPTD

[Reply #521 on:]

The full length Sweded version of Star Wars has been finished-ed!
Star Wars: Uncut

[Reply #522 on:]

Does anyone else agree that when all the movie companies put the movies back in theaters, but in 3D it's sorta a rip-off. I mean, we've seen these movies before, and we don't want to pay $12 to see the same movie we've seen plenty of times, except with "3-Dimensions".

[Reply #523 on:]

Although I have little interest in seeing the movies in 3D I certainly would disagree about a cinematic re-release. The cinema is where films should be seen, especially spectacular special effects extravaganzas like the Star Wars films. Although I am by no means a fan of the special editions either, one of my favourite cinema experiences was watching the original trilogy on the big screen when they were re-released in 1997(?). Big movies deserve the big picture and big sound the cinema provides and no matter what you've purchased for your home entertainment system you can't possibly emulate it.

[Reply #524 on:]

I think it's dumb and a rip-off, but from the view of the movie companies it's a great idea. They already have the films, so they barely have to spend as much money as it costs to make a real movie. They spend a little on adding the 3D and TA-DAH! A smart way to make a lot of money for a cheap price.

[Reply #525 on:]

Does anyone else agree that when all the movie companies put the movies back in theaters, but in 3D it's sorta a rip-off. I mean, we've seen these movies before, and we don't want to pay $12 to see the same movie we've seen plenty of times, except with "3-Dimensions".

If you don't want to pay $12 to see a movie you've seen plenty of times, then don't.

Why do I need to tell you this?


I love when films are re-released because, like ShepherdofShark, I'm a fan of the cinema experience. I love going to special screenings of old favourites. I even harassed my local cinema until they agreed to play 'A Clockwork Orange' for its 40th anniversary because it's my favourite film and I wanted to see it in the cinema.

[Reply #526 on:]

Although I have little interest in seeing the movies in 3D I certainly would disagree about a cinematic re-release. The cinema is where films should be seen, especially spectacular special effects extravaganzas like the Star Wars films. Although I am by no means a fan of the special editions either, one of my favourite cinema experiences was watching the original trilogy on the big screen when they were re-released in 1997(?). Big movies deserve the big picture and big sound the cinema provides and no matter what you've purchased for your home entertainment system you can't possibly emulate it.

It's funny, the 97 special editions were the first time I ever watched a whole Star Wars film - previously it was a snippet of the Empire Strikes Back when I was very much younger and it gave me nightmares. I got into Star Wars through the computer games, like Dark Forces, TIE Fighter and (dare I say it) Rebel Assault (hand's up here who has actually heard of that???)

So I don't really feel anything special towards the original films. I may in hindsight agree with statements like "yeah, why did they add Luke screaming as he fell through the chasm of Cloud City?" but otherwise I'm left thinking, for the most part, "well, I think it looks nicer like that." Because I don't know better.

So I'm wondering, just out loud and a bit from left-field but, let's hypothesise - one day we all have children and one day they come to you and say "I really wanna watch the Star Wars films!"
Would you allow them to see all of them? Also, which order and, well, which version?

[Reply #527 on:]

I got the remastered versions (just remastered, no additional scenes) on VHS when I was 14 (that's 1992) so I watched them to death in those 5 years, before they were significantly tampered with for the first time. Prior to that all I had was a TV recording of ROTJ.

Since the 1997 release there's been so many changes I lose track (did Greedo shoot first in that version?). Anyway, since then a friend of mine managed to get hold of the Laserdisc versions that never got touched in a bad way by Lucas and I've got them on DVD now and when I watch them I always watch those versions.

And to answer your question, those are the versions I would show to my kids and I would show them in the order 4,5,6 (are you sure you don't want to ruin what you just saw, my child?) 1,2,3.

[Reply #528 on:]

Rebel Assault was terribleawesome.

[Reply #529 on:]

I still have some fond memories of Rebel Assault to be honest. Perhaps more for how the music was used. Made me appreciate the soundtrack more when I finally saw it used in the films.

* Looks up Wookieepedia

No, they never did bother to give Rookie One a proper name. Compare that to the backstories subsequently surrounding the entirely faceless, nameless and silent (I think they may scream if their ship's blowing up, but then that's not strictly canon...) protagonists of X-Wing and TIE Fighter.

Just as an aside, picked up PC Gamer yesterday and it had their Top 100 PC games of all time list, and TIE Fighter's still on it. Thinking about it, I did enjoy the in-game storyline they gave Ace Azzameen in X-Wing Alliance, but there's something quite brilliant about telling you you are a cog of the Imperial machine like never being referred to by actual name - you may be an Emperor's Hand, but out there you are simply known as Tau 1* (followed by... "you are the only craft in your flight group")

*for example

The 1997 SE versions did have Greedo shoot first. In fact they've realised their mistake - well, besides the one to have Greedo shoot at all - so that in the more recent ones I remember watching it appears that they fire nearly simultaneously and they may have even tampered with it to make it look possibly like Han may have had to slightly tilt his head to avoid the shot.
Because in the 1997 version Greedo fired about a second in advance and missed horribly. But I suppose that's not too unusual for a Star Wars baddy?

IMO the 2004 versions are probably the best realised of the newer versions.

[Reply #530 on:]

What about the Fanedit versions? Adywan has a bluray recut of episode IV and V, loads of changes:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-IV-2004-REVISITED-ADYWAN-720p-HD-version-coming-after-ROTJ-R/topic/5942/

[Reply #531 on:]

The full length Sweded version of Star Wars has been finished-ed!
Star Wars: Uncut

I highly advise everyone to skip to 47:00. The entire thing should have been done in that way.

[Reply #532 on:]

The full length Sweded version of Star Wars has been finished-ed!
Star Wars: Uncut

I friggin love it!!

[Reply #533 on:]

I friggin love it!!

To be perfectly honest, I think it is mostly utterly awful, but there's a few gems in there that deserve recognition.

[Reply #534 on:]

I found it amusing and enjoyed the many styles various people used. Yes, some were flat and unentertaining, but taken as a whole, it's a fun way to view a classic movie.

[Reply #535 on:]

Episode VI gets the How It Should Have Ended treatment.
Haha!

[Reply #536 on:]

To be perfectly honest, I think it is mostly utterly awful, but there's a few gems in there that deserve recognition.

Well yeah... with each person doing a 15s segment (making it for a total of arround 500 segments) there must be some attempts utterly lame.. but thats the rules, everyone is free of incarnating the segment as they please with no rules..  its funny seeing how they combine and there are some quite brilliant (i laughted at the scene of the "returning fighters" wich is just a car driving into the garage and the guy steping out )

[Reply #537 on:]

Okay, anyone that is at least somewhat familair with the prequels, help me out here...
My husband and I were watching Star Wars and then he reveals to me that he honestly thinks Count Dooku and the other sith DONT know that their master Darth Sidious is also the Chancellor.
LOL what!?!? I said "You're trolling me right? You cannot actually believe that!!"

Now we've been sitting here arguing it for a while.
What about that part in episode II Dooku says to Obi Wan: "What would you do if I told you the Republic is now under the control of the Dark Lord of the Sith?"
How could Dooku NOT KNOW?! He looks exactly like the Chancellor, he's in on the whole plan to take over the republic!

Yeah, he still doesn't believe me..

[Reply #538 on:]

Dooku probably does know that the Chancellor is Darth Sidious, which is part of the reason he's fairly taken aback when the chancellor orders his execution by Anakin.

However, it's really debatable whether any of the other characters know about this revelation, and it's quite absurd that they are completely unable to piece this together.  Furthermore, most of the Chancellor's choices through out the prequel series are ridiculously farfetched and in reality unlikely to help him achieve his goals.  What's even worse is that this can be said about almost ALL of the characters in the prequel universe.  Why do the trade federation aliens keep listening to Sidius after he continuously fucks them over, why does General Grieveous listen to the dark sith lord and play along with his stupid plan, why are troops stationed on the other side of Naboo, and why do Obi-wan and Qui-gon sit in a trap by the trade federation or think they can stop a plot to take over Naboo from the other side of the planet, and if Count Dooku is aware that the Chancellor is Sidius why does he allow Anakin to kill him?

The way of the Sith seems to be greed and power, and just about every character in the prequels is completely retarded.

The prequel movies are very poorly written, and almost anything that happens in them is confusing and unrealistic.  Although you're almost certainly right about Dooku, it's not unreasonable, in my opinion, that your husband was confused on this matter because the stories told in the prequels are quite incoherent and the characters' motivations in them are not adequately established short of "this guy wears black, he must be a bad guy" and "the good guys gotta stops the bad guys".

[Reply #539 on:]

I'm not here to get in a discussion about how awful everyone thinks the prequels are.
I don't find them confusing and unrealistic. It's a lot more interesting having all those layers.

the characters' motivations in them are not adequately established short of "this guy wears black, he must be a bad guy" and "the good guys gotta stops the bad guys".

Actually, that sounds a lot like the OT to me. At least the prequels explain things and give some background.
Let me just note that I love OT and PT equally. Although 3 and 5 are probably my favourite films, it's hard to choose. Star Wars is one movie to me, and it's fantastic.. That doesn't mean I don't see the flaws and LOL at some things, but it's still a dman good story.

And I recommend reading the Novels of Episode II and III and the one right after III "Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader." They really expand on the films so much and make them sooo much better. The EP III novel is by far one of my favourite books of all time.

Anyway, I opened up the Novel of ROTS and read to him the part where Dooku is about to be killed and looks at Sidious in shock, where it clearly states it from Dooku's point of view.
So I proved my point and then he got really mad and threw the book across the room.
UGH. And that brought up a completely different arguement. God forbid a woman ever try to prove that she's right. Can't he just accept that we're always right?
Things have been slow at his work lately so he's been really pissy about the stupidest little things. I sometimes think men have a 'time of the month' too
Sorry...the latter half is more suited for the rant thread.

[Reply #540 on:]

Lol.  It happens.  Most of us homo sapiens are quite defensive about what we think to be right, even and especially when we're not right.

I was just explaining (from the films only) my perspective on your question.  Without bringing the novels into question, I think it can be firmly stated and correct to say that Count Dooku knew with certainty that Sidius and the Chancellor were one in the same.

However, I went on to explain that I could not make the same statement about any of the other characters in the films.  I further stated that as an audience, the films themselves present a rather vague picture with which to ascertain the validity of those assumptions.  It becomes more confusing because, it was rather unreasonable through out the prequel films (in my opinion) for the characters themselves to not realize that Darth Sidius and the Chancellor are one in the same; from a realistic perspective most people would presume that individuals involved in those sequence of events would have been able to figure it out; however, the story of the prequel films hinges on the basic fact that it is a secret that Darth Sidius and the Chancellor are the same person.

So, did I kind of jump into the prequels being awful?  Yeah, I kind of did.  My intention wasn't to just shoot down the prequels for doing so though.  I felt it necessary to build a framework on why I think the other characters do not know that Darth Sidius and the Chancellor are the same person (in answer to your question), and why it's difficult as an audience to ascertain the answer to your question and be reasonably expected to come up with a correct response, in order to explain why your husband may not have believed your statement and how he came to his conclusion on the question.

[Reply #541 on:]

Please note I edited my previous post ^

I understand what you're saying, winna. But I don't think it's that obvious the Chancellor is sidious to anyone but the sith. All of the Jedi know he's out there somewhere, but you've got to remember they never see Sidious or hear his voice. Obviously if they have, then I could see why it would be hard to believe they can't figure that one out. But having nothing to go off of, how could they get a clue? Of course it's easy from the audience's point of view because we can see the dramatic irony. But we don't know every single character's POV.

If anyone would have figured it out sooner it should have been Anakin, being as he's so close to him. None of the other Jedi are that close to him.  Also Dooku says "The dark side of the force clouds their judgement." So it's harder for them to sense.  Yes, they do start to sense toward the end that "the dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor" and they think it could be someone in his office or something.
That's something that is again, better explained in the books. I will admit that if Lucas would have included more of the original script and things that were in the book in the films, it would have made them a lot better. But honestly there's just soooo much going on in those films and they're already long enough, you just can't do it. That's when you become James Cameron and refuse to cut anything out and end up with a 4 hour film.

[Reply #542 on:]

We can all have opinions about the prequels, and I don't mind that you like them.

We can both agree that perhaps some elements in the films could have been expounded upon better.  You suggest perhaps if the movies would have been longer... but I'm of the opinion that there may have been a way of brevity in which to display the characters that made it more reasonable to (me as) the audience and would have lessened the confusion that I explained the audience might have had about the characters, their motivations, and the unenveloping of the plot.

I could be wrong about whether the characters behaved unreasonably or not in the films.  It's very difficult to tell how an individual will behave in a specific situation.  However, as a small example, Count Dooku clearly tells Obi-wan that there is a dark lord in the Republic... (I believe in AotC, no?) and at the very same time Palpatine has been vying for power to the extent that he might turn the beloved Republic into a dictatorship.  Is it unreasonable for Obi-wan to not immediately assume that Palpatine is the dark lord, and is unreasonable for the Council to not take action based upon Obi-wan's thoughts and knowledge?  I think so.... however, that is merely my opinion and it may not reflect a realistic perspective on that situation.

I watched all of the prequels, and generally enjoyed them as space action movies... however, I did always feel there were a few things not quite right with them as films.  After watching a very specific series of critical reviews of the prequels, I am now rather convinced of some of the things I have said.

I don't wish to argue with you about whether I'm right or not... and I'm always open to hear your opinion on the matter.  I was merely explaining my perspective as such to both give an answer and possibly explain why your husband came to the conclusion that he did.  I could certainly be wrong about that last part... he might have simply forgot that Count Dooku knew or any other number of explanations.

Anyways, if you're actually interested (and you probably shouldn't be), the reviews that I spoke of start here: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

I think the reviewer is fair and reasonable to the films, but in all honestly his objective is to both tear them apart and make a humorous response.  I don't necessarily suggest that you watch these because I think it's quite possible you won't enjoy them, but they do explain in detail some of the things I have suggested.

You don't have to watch them, but if you do ever get a chance to, I'd be happy to open mindedly hear your opinion on them.

[Reply #543 on:]

I'm pretty sure LP won't like those reviews. I'm glad I watched them though, cause they gave me closure on the prequels and let me ignore them (almost).

Unfortunately I still find the proper films to be ruined whenever Ben speaks of Anakin. I fail to see any of what he says in any of the prequels, especially in ANH.

Ben: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals; he felt he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.

Am I missing something in eps 1-3 where this is explained?

[Reply #544 on:]

Am I missing something in eps 1-3 where this is explained?

continuity.. wich Lucas lacks.. i was even expecting some small conversation between Anakin and Owen in Ep2 after Schmi funeral.. something like "all that madness going out there, your mother just died.. my father needs you.. why you dont settle here and live in peace here far from all that war" .. Anakin would just need to reply something about Jedi obligations or just how people need him to stop the war or that he needed to try to make a safe galaxy (wich was was he said to Padme later when confessing his massacre and his will to save "everyone" by being more powerfull)

Other small bits about Anakin and Obi Wan "when i met him your father was allready a great pilot" ... ok he was a really good racer ..but pilot? well i guess it can pass since Anakin from the others point of view flew a starfighter into battle and managed to destroy an enemy dreadnought in his very first time ever on a starfighter..  the big issue with that is.. why Anakin needed to be 9/10... why! (ok i know why, to atract kids and sell more) ..

"He was the best pilot in the galaxy" ... Lucas biggest issue is that he hardly showed any of that.. Anakin doesnt even fly in ep2 and it does very little flying in ep3.. just in the starting battle and not much apart from showing he was far better than Obi Wan (who by the way expends half his time in the cockpit complaining about he hating to pilot) "and a good friend" .. at least we got a bit of this.. in eps 2 and 3 its clear that while sometimes they dissagree Anakin has a profund respect and friendship to Obi Wan... risking his life to save him several times and apologicing to Obi Wan for his disagree with the counsil in ep3 in what was the last time the two of them met as friends.


There is so much stuff Lucas wasted... Garven Dreis (red leader in ep 4) said that he had flown alonside Anakin Skywalker and he renembered him clearly after 20 years... no even try is made by Lucas to try to use this showing.... you know a no clone pilot for once?? Peña solved this as a small note in some guide.. thats a pathetic way of fixing a line..



Edit: Oh i just found there there are Z95s in the clone wars cartoons... along with the Y-Wings and some other.... not 100% is lost then

[Reply #545 on:]

not 100% is lost then

Guess again.

[Reply #546 on:]

I think that would be great news. Two Star Wars universes, so the likes of me can pretend the prequels actually have no baring on the OT.

[Reply #547 on:]

Nope, they still would have baring, but there would just be a new canon where the OT never happened.. There would be one Star Wars universe where the PT -> OT, and then another one where the PT -> new canon. You'll never be able to pretend the prequels didn't happen.

Ever.

Jar Jar will haunt you forever.

[Reply #548 on:]

Anything that allows me to distance Eps 1-3 from 4-6 is good news. They don't deserve to be even counted together so if a separation of the two is chosen then I'll be happy. I know that as timelines go the logic doesn't work, but if there's a new future to the tale then great! I will then choose to make up my own past again, just like I did before 1999. Although, it was 2002 when I really switched off from the prequels.

Jar Jar is the least of my problems.

[Reply #549 on:]

I'm pretty skeptical about this whole time travel thing. It doesn't seem to fit with any of the stuff I've heard about the TV series.

[Reply #550 on:]

Also, it's possible that the attempt could be foiled. It could just be an excuse to have an episode full of movie stars, but in the long run it doesn't have a real effect on the series.

[Reply #551 on:]

Just been reading this, pretty damn interesting.

[Reply #552 on:]

More like pretty damn annoying!

That version of Obi-Wan is probably buried somewhere at the bottom of my folks' garden with a snapped light saber and a melted face (which could be due to a lighter or a magnifying glass).

[Reply #553 on:]

Nah.. i dont give any credit to that "rumor" .. it just looks like a HOAX.. also Rick has stated many times that the live action series has many scripts allready done and it would be about the "civilian" world after the rise of the empire, how the empire goes to control what the republic didnt , all low criminal and street "empires" to enclose all  the galaxy and it would be about bounty hunters and smugglers dealing with that (should expect cool characters like Han Solo/Lando Calrrisian tipes along Hutts , Black Sun , Talon Karrdes, Boba Fetts tipes too all.. some trying to control their markets and rivals, others trying to simply go away from the empire influence or trying to fly low on empire's radar...   ideally , its Lucas so it could just go about a Gungan family trying to smuggle muffings to Wookies on that "life's day" ) actually seems a bit FireFly-ish (Firefly premise was quite similar, the Alliance (empire) just won a civil war and was controlling all outter planets and the character was just trying to live outside the Alliance influence)

What i dont buy from Rick is the "cost" bullshit "each episode would be like doing a movie" .... im sorry Rick.. you are not the first space opera show out there... and i dont see the need to have more special effects than Galactica or Firefly.. specially considering you would be doing everything on greenscreens unlike them and probably wouldnt have Natalie Portman, Ewak McGregor , Liam Neeson and Cristopher Lee in your paycheck

[Reply #554 on:]

Lol, what? You've GOT to be kidding me. This article is surely a joke, yes?

[Reply #555 on:]

The interpretations it offers are valid and interesting ones, but following the first few paragraphs it proceeds to completely neglect justifying its title.

[Reply #556 on:]

the first three episodes in the saga of Anakin Skywalker are deeper, better structured, and more politically astute than the final three.

None of which a good movie make.  Also, better structured?  What does that even mean?

[Reply #557 on:]

They certainly arent...


i just watched Ep 1 in 3D (my first ever 3D movie...not bad i would say the 3D conversion was well integrated... but i havent seen any so i cant compare and almost everything that was "3D" was blurish.. like cutting from a DVD to insert into a blueray) and its facepalm after facepalm

That guy also says "Nowhere in the original "Star Wars" trilogy is there any sequence of events nearly as profound in their application to real life as Palpatine's manipulative orchestration of the separatist movement "

what? have we saw the same movies? Palpatine's orchestration worked just because it was scripted ... seriously..

The comments on the page are hilarious tought

[Reply #558 on:]

Lucas named Palpatine well though.

Senator Palpatine => Senator Palpable => Chancellor Obvious => Emperor Obvious.

[Reply #559 on:]

the first three episodes in the saga of Anakin Skywalker are deeper, better structured, and more politically astute than the final three.

None of which a good movie make.  Also, better structured?  What does that even mean?

It means he reacted to stimuli in a consistent fashion, namely dull confusion and, occasionally, over-the-top anger.

Nuts to that guy, and nuts to his article.  Javier is right, Palpatine's plan worked because it was in the script.  However allegorical the plot was supposed to be, there were enough nonsensical, unselfish decisions to fill a star destroyer.