Underestimating Middle-America Since 1950: Television Test Thread

[Reply #400 on:]

So like, did anyone on this forum watch Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D?

I thought it was absolutely terrible, personally. I was quite shocked with how bad it was.

But I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a lot better once it finds its groove. Angel started out very poorly, too, and that soon developed into a great show.


And The Michael J. Fox Show was also pretty poor.

[Reply #401 on:]

Does anyone else here watch The Mindy Project? It's pretty ridiculous, but it's the kind of crazy I really enjoy. I love Mindy Kaling, so a show that's centered on a character who's basically identical to how she seems in reality is great, in my opinion.

[Reply #402 on:]

I saw the first episode of The Mindy Project and turned it off before it even finished. Definitely not my cup of tea, as much as I liked her work on The Office (The Injury, which she penned, is still my all-time favourite episode).

So far the only new shows I've seen getting super high acclaim are Brooklyn Nine-Nine (which is fantastic and totally deserves it) and Masters of Sex (which I've yet to see, but sounds awfully intriguing - and not just for naked Lizzy Caplan - though I might wait 'til I have a few episodes and do a bit of a marathon with it).

[Reply #403 on:]

I saw the first episode of The Mindy Project and turned it off before it even finished. Definitely not my cup of tea, as much as I liked her work on The Office (The Injury, which she penned, is still my all-time favourite episode).

I disliked the first couple episodes, too, but for whatever reason I decided to stick with it and ended up very much enjoying the second half of the first season. I can definitely understand it not being everyone's cup of tea, though, since even I can find it a bit obnoxious at times. 

Also, I agree with you about Brooklyn Nine-Nine. I'm not sure how many episodes are out so far, but I saw the first two this weekend and thought it was awesome.

[Reply #404 on:]

The humour in The Mindy Project seemed very much catered towards a female audience, which is why it might not have clicked with me... Not to sound sexist or anything, since there are plenty of fantastic female show-runners out there (I absolutely adore Tina Fey), but the material itself appeared to have a bit more of a niche target in mind.

[Reply #405 on:]

I watched the first 4 or 5 episodes of The Mindy Project. It wasn't bad, by any means, but it wasn't anything special and I basically just lost interest.

[Reply #406 on:]

If anyone cares, the latest episode of Sons of Anarchy (E04?) was quite a step up from the last few I'm glad to report. It left me wondering where else this season could head since

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they just killed Toric and Otto, as well as two Prospects (including my favourite one I fondly called "Fatty") as a result of pissing off the Irish).

, still I'm intrigued and captivated as ever.

But I digress slightly. Please don't stone me, but I never got aboard the Breaking Bad train simply because by the time I showed interest I had missed 4 seasons of material. From the one episode I've seen, I recognise how great a masterpiece it probably is, but to me Sons is my favourite not only because I think it's pretty great, but simply because I chose to watch from day one. Perhaps, if it retains it's cult status in a few years I'll have me a Summer marathon of it. I have a suspicion it will.

Also, I'm pleasantly surprised by how non-disastrous Brooklyn 99's pilot was. Might be worth following!

[Reply #407 on:]

So like, did anyone on this forum watch Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D?

I thought it was absolutely terrible, personally. I was quite shocked with how bad it was.

But I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a lot better once it finds its groove. Angel started out very poorly, too, and that soon developed into a great show.

I wasn't very impressed either. Most of the characters are really dull (aside from Coulson) and I just found it to be a bit boring.

[Reply #408 on:]

Anyone been watching Stephen Merchant's solo show, "Hello Ladies?" I thought the pilot was excellent.

[Reply #409 on:]

I saw the pilot. I wouldn't say it was anything hugely special, but it certainly wasn't bad. I'll stick with it for a while (though I haven't seen episode 2 yet).

It's certainly a hell of a lot better than Gervais' solo outing, Derek (which sucked), but it's less of a solo outing seeing as Merchant has written the whole thing with two of the guys from the US Office.

[Reply #410 on:]

I meant "solo" as in "Sans Gervais."

I never bothered to finish Derek, the first few episodes didn't do anything for me. Hello Ladies had me laughing almost the whole way through the pilot... Apart from the moments where I was cringing, groaning and burying my face in my hands, of course. Some of the material hit a little too close to home at times, but that's pretty much why I loved it.

[Reply #411 on:]

*BUMP*

I'd post this in the actual Dexter thread, but I fear stumbling across spoilers for seasons five through eight, and thus far I've only watched through season four because that's all Netflix has until January, but anyway:

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I just wanted to officially register my anger with the writers for killing off Rita. She was kind of bland and kind of annoying, but seriously. Also I wanted to complain about having to see John Lithgow's naked body on at least three separate occasions during season four. Once in Saran wrap. There's a fetish for that, I'm sure, but I for one do not have it!

Spoilered in case other Dexter neophytes haven't watched as far through as I have.

[Reply #412 on:]

They had to kill off Rita to pave the way for the Dexter/Batista romance.

[Reply #413 on:]

Gorky:

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I actually loved it as a twist but felt like the series should've ended there. The image of Harrison in his mother's blood would've been perfect for the show to go out on - almost coming full circle, at least to an extent. Aside from a brief comeback in the first half of season 7, everything beyond season 4 is a fucking abomination.

[Reply #414 on:]

That's kind of disheartening to hear, Beamer. My college offered a course on Dexter (it was a lit class about the use of the Bluebeard story in popular culture; I didn't take it myself, but I heard good things, so I guess the comparison between the two characters is a valid one), and the professor had everyone watch the first three seasons, then skip season four because she didn't like it, before resuming with season five. So I guess I was kind of holding out hope that things get better from here. I thought seasons one, two, and three were really great (I marathoned season three in pretty much a day), but season four to me just seemed like a rehash of things that Dexter had seemingly already learned--that he's not as much of a monster as he appears, that he loves his family, that Harry was an asshole, that the code is flawed, etc. So if things continue on in this same manner in seasons five through eight, I could easily see myself becoming bored.

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Also--and this is neither here nor there--what happened to Lundy in season four really pissed me off and seemed profoundly unnecessary; I was quite fond of him, and really if Deb's boyfriends keep serial-killing/getting flayed alive/getting shot dead then that'll also get old quick.

They had to kill off Rita to pave the way for the Dexter/Batista romance.

Shoot, I was banking on a Dexter/Quinn thing; they have a sort of slap-slap-kiss dynamic going.

[Reply #415 on:]

Season four is probably my favourite (with season one as a close second, since the narrative and the structure thereof is just sublime), though that's largely attributed to John Lithgow's incredible performance as Trinity.

As for "learning things Dexter has already learned," the latter half of the show's run is an incredibly bad offender. The whole "Dexter meets someone who accepts him for who he is" thing (already done with Lila and Miguel) continues to happen over and fucking over again. By the final season, the show was just a chore to watch; I only powered through because I was that close to the end.

[Reply #416 on:]

I'd go further and say that everything after the pilot episode is utter garbage and shouldn't be watched. And, in fact, you can turn the pilot episode off after the first twelve minutes, because it kinda goes downhill after that.

Goddamn TV audiences. Arrogant ingrates - think you can do a better job?!

[Reply #417 on:]

Goddamn TV audiences. Arrogant ingrates - think you can do a better job?!

In the case of Dexter... Honestly? Yes. Yes I do.

[Reply #418 on:]

Go on then.

[Reply #419 on:]

I assume you'll provide the necessary funding?

[Reply #420 on:]

In a pig's eye.
Hell of a lot of effort goes into those things, you know. Not just money. Time, effort. It's not really as easy a job as it seems. I've been on the set of a few things for TV and cinema and frankly, they can keep it! Really really hard work.

[Reply #421 on:]

As have I, and I agree with you completely. BUT, my gripes with Dexter are specifically with the writing. And I really do think I could've come up with a better ending than

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Dexter sails off into a hurricane, leaves his son with another murderer to raise him and then inexplicably becomes a lumberjack.

And yes, that really is how it fucking ends.

[Reply #422 on:]

I know... I've seen it... 

Monsters don't get to live happily ever after.

[Reply #423 on:]

Getting in to "Breaking Bad", up to Season 2 in Netflix  

[Reply #424 on:]

Monsters don't get to live happily ever after.

They do in Monsters Inc. They do in this advertisement masquerading as a movie, and they at least appear to win in this 2010 film entitled "Monsters".

Disney's heartwarming tale of beastiality and Stockholm Syndrome stars a monster that gets to live happily ever after, too.

Plenty of monsters get happy endings, and almost anybody can be a monster depending on your perspective. Besides which, monsters aren't necessarily the bad guys.

[Reply #425 on:]

I'm with Beamer, I also think I could have done a better job if I had been on that writing staff.

[Reply #426 on:]

Tnuk, those are cartoons! Cartoon monsters aren't monsters.

[Reply #427 on:]

I'm with Beamer, I also think I could have done a better job if I had been on that writing staff.

Well, apparently Showtime gave the writers the condition that

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Dexter couldn't die.

Which limited them quite a bit (especially when you read the former showrunner's originally-planned ending). But even then, their ending was still fucking garbage. I would've gone with something along the lines of, say,

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Dexter having to teach Harrison the code.

[Reply #428 on:]

Dexter appearing to Harrison like Harry did to Dexter would be pretty cool, in some kind of flash forward where Harrison is a sushi chef and Dexter is teaching him how to slice properly.

[Reply #429 on:]

Ugh, I was so fucking sick of Ghost Harry by the end of it. And they did the whole "Dexter overcomes his need for Ghost Harry" thing more than once, too! He just came back without explanation after the first one, too!! Not to mention how loosely they played with the concept that Ghost Harry was a manifestation of his subconscious. By the end, the only way it could've all made sense if if he actually was a ghost.

[Reply #430 on:]

As for "learning things Dexter has already learned," the latter half of the show's run is an incredibly bad offender. The whole "Dexter meets someone who accepts him for who he is" thing (already done with Lila and Miguel) continues to happen over and fucking over again. By the final season, the show was just a chore to watch; I only powered through because I was that close to the end.

I watched season five straight through on Wednesday, and I must say that it was probably my second-favorite season, behind season three. Maybe it's just because I love Julia Stiles, but I thought the Dexter/Lumen thing was pretty well-done, and at least her brand of vengeance had motivations different from (and, I'd say, more sincere than) Miguel's. The conclusion of her story was also far more satisfying than that of any of the show's previous big-name guest stars, and I didn't feel like Dexter's relationship with her was too much of a retread of things that had already been explored in earlier seasons; sure, she was basically Rita--what with her tragically damaged back-story and all--but with a greater desire to stab people. I could dig it.

That said, I'm having a hard time working my way through season six, as thus far it has been a pretty big pile of shit. I do not have high hopes for the rest of the series, based on what y'all have said about it in this thread, but still I must finish it.

[Reply #431 on:]

Wow, I'm insanely surprised that 3 and 5 are your favorites...they were my two least favorite seasons up to that point. Not to say they were bad, though...they were certainly leagues above the last three seasons.

Seasons 1, 2, and 4 had far more interesting storylines and a handful of incredibly intense scenes in each, though, which makes them stand out to me. Season 2 in particular was where the show was most vital to me, with Dexter in over his head in so many ways, in danger of being caught at every turn, which to me was an incredible way to up the stakes so soon in the series. Doakes-in-a-cage was probably the most morally ambiguous territory the show ever got into.

As for the ending:

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What a horribly trite and disrespectful ending. It was as if the writers made it their mission to leave a bad taste in our mouths. The saddest part is that what they did actually could have been clever and daring...if it didn't totally betray the tone and message of the show in every way.

A huge part of the show was the humanization of Dexter. Throughout the show we're meant to sympathize with his character, and to an extent we do, even if we can't get past some of his larger leaps in logic (let's not ever let the cops get involved because that won't result in justice for anybody, derr). We're frequently shown that he's an emotional person who actually does care deeply about others, whether or not he realizes it. He's clearly not psychotic, as he's not delusional, egotistical, and actually very aware and thoughtful about his condition.

In other words, he's not a monster, just an extremely flawed individual with a destructive addiction. He repeatedly comes close to conquering his urge as well when confronted with something he really cares about...like his sister, wife, son, or girlfriend. That's why in the final season when he swears that he can abandon his urge for the good of his family, we believe him, or at least I did. His urge had for a while been more the victim of circumstance than anything, something even the last season seems to hammer in. Throughout the show we root for Dexter to get over his addiction. He's not a good person, but he's not a sociopath with no chance at rehabilitation.

The last few minutes of the finale seems to undo everything the show was trying to go for. Instead of showing that mental illness or addiction can be conquered, we get Dexter's relapse and downfall. I assume the point that the writers were going for was that Dexter learned the message that his actions were overly destructive too late and hence was punished for it, but the show had him making that realization way earlier in the show numerous times, and having him only act on it by then made everything in between feel dragged out and utterly pointless, and most importantly unrealistic. Using the end of the show to let Dexter redeem himself would have not only been more satisfying but also would have made more sense and been more consistent with his character development. Instead the writers went for optimal heartbreak, but for what? Certainly not a good ending. Even if Dexter deserved what he got at the end, that didn't make it well thought-out writing.

In brief, what I'm getting at here is that what the writers did with the ending obviously wasn't borne of some master arc they'd envisioned or even a good lesson they wanted to teach. Clearly their only intent with it was to be as dark and depressing as possible, which they succeeded at, but at the grand cost of the show's soul and legacy. In this era of television, not everything has to be brutal and daring to be thoughtful or satisfying, and Dexter proved that. I really wish it didn't have to though.

[Reply #432 on:]

Seasons 1, 2, and 4 had far more interesting storylines and a handful of incredibly intense scenes in each, though, which makes them stand out to me.

I hated Lila a whole bunch, which probably adversely affected my enjoyment of season two; I agree that all the Bay Harbor Butcher stuff was awesome, though. And, rethinking it now, I guess season one might slightly outrank season three for me because of how damn tightly and masterfully it is constructed--but I make no apologies for my love of season five: excepting how the whole thing sort of comes off as a somewhat grotesque battered woman's revenge fantasy (which I find faintly offensive if I think about it too hard), I thought the story accomplished everything that the Lila arc tried, but failed, to achieve in season two--and Lumen was a far more complex, interesting character than Lila ever was. Also she wasn't a home-wrecking nut-job, which helps.

[Reply #433 on:]

Everyone hated Lila, she was an evil shallow bitch of a person. That was kind of the point though, and at least she got her just desserts. I never quite understood why people count a character they hated against something, when the character was supposed to be hated. Not that I'm saying that just against you, I've heard lots of people make similar statements. More importantly though, Lila was almost a subplot of season two...I'm not sure I would even call her role in the show an "arc". The Bay Harbor Butcher/Doakes/Lundy stuff was so much more substantial.

[Reply #434 on:]

Fair point, but I love season three despite thinking Miguel is just this horrible monster of a person who manages to fuck Dexter's life up about as badly as Lila did; I think, as far as villains go, Miguel was more compelling than Lila but equally reprehensible. Similarly, in season four--of which I am not terribly fond--I think Trinity is crazy and scary and fascinating, but the season's trajectory, what with all of Dexter's near-misses and changes of heart and conversations with goddamn Ghost Harry as he considered killing the guy, were too much for me to take. It is the plot of that season, not so much the characterizations, that annoy the hell out of me and make it hard to suspend disbelief.

Meanwhile, I thought season five passed somewhat predictably, what with the systematic picking-off of the gang rapists--but a story about Dexter falling in love with a woman who was able to understand him in a way Rita never did, all while trying to work through his feelings about being an absentee husband and father the previous year, just came at the right time in the series for me to respond to it so strongly. And, yeah, Lumen was really likable, and I'm sure she was intended to be in a way that Lila and Miguel were not. That said, it was not her character alone that made the season so enjoyable to me--but I certainly appreciated her presence on the show.

[Reply #435 on:]

I really loved season 4 for its main theme of Dexter trying to believe that he could live a normal life with a family while still being a killer, using Trinity as his role model, only to come to the harsh realization (in Hungry Man, clearly the standout episode of that season) that Trinity was no role model and that his family life was certainly not what he thought it to be at first glance. And having that come full circle with the twist in the last moments of the season was brilliant to me...even if the writers squandered its impact on Dexter and the direction it should have taken the show in.

[Reply #436 on:]

Gorky - I'd actually agree with you on season 3 to an extent - I think it's a very underrated season. Granted, it has its flaws (I mean, the whole Skinner thing... It really was just some guy? Like, what?), but I'd rank it as my third-favourite season behind 1 and 4. Season 2's plotting was all very neat and clever on paper, though it had a few too many contrivances I just couldn't buy into. Season 4 is also guilty of this, though Lithgow's performance as Trinity was incredible enough for me to overlook all of that... Lila was probably my favourite part of season 2, though. I love fucked up crazy characters.

Season 5 would be one of the worst seasons for me. I mean, really, the whole thing was so pointless.
"A bunch of guys raped me!"
"OMG, you've got darkness in you too. Let's team up and kill them!"
"We killed them all! Now my darkness is gone."
"Kbye."

Especially seeing as, at the end of season 6,

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the very thing that almost happened at the end of season 5 happens anyway - which ruins its impact quite significantly.

[Reply #437 on:]

BUMP!

Is anyone watching Enlisted? The first two episodes have been very, very funny. I have quite high hopes for this show.

[Reply #438 on:]

I've just become aware that another of my childhood memories, The Tomorrow People, has been updated and transplanted to America. I've only seen one episode, but it seems to have moved up an age bracket and become darker than the original (attempted rape and a suicide attempt). The basic premise seems intact: young people coping with the difficulties of being the first examples of Homo superior to evolve, but it owes more to X-Men than Dr Who, as the original did. The move to America irks me: the secret lab of the original was located in a disused London Underground (Tube) station, and placing it anywhere else is double-plus uncool. But I might watch some more to see where the series goes.

[Reply #439 on:]

Anyone watching True Detective? It's pretty good.