The Simpsons 5th Thread Spectacular!

[Reply #80 on:]

Well really having seen them I certianly wouldn't mind waiting to see them.
and DTB do you ever plan to see Regina Monolouges. I don't like blair, I've even now been able to vote against him. But its not enough to make me not watch.

[Reply #81 on:]

I don't know why everyone hates "Simpsons Safari".  I like it.  It's stupid, but in an entertaining way.  (Although I'm still scratching my head over the geography.  They floated downstream from a Masai village through the jungle past some Pygmies, then they went over Victoria Falls and ended up at Mount Kilimanjaro?)

I love "Blame It On Lisa" because when they said that the Simpsons were going to Brazil, my dad and I both said, "I wonder if they'll meet Xuxa?" and we were just kidding, but then they did meet Xuxa.  (Well, maybe not actually Xuxa, but a reasonable facsimile of her.)  If you don't know who Xuxa is, don't bother.

"The Regina Monologues" is great.  The bit with Ian McKellen and the Scottish play is the funniest thing I've seen on The Simpsons in a long time.

[Reply #82 on:]

 

Originally posted by User_names_suck:
Well really having seen them I certianly wouldn't mind waiting to see them.
and DTB do you ever plan to see Regina Monolouges. I don't like blair, I've even now been able to vote against him. But its not enough to make me not watch.

Possibly....either when the current situation in Iraq has ended (if it ever does :/) or when it hits dvd, at which point current events should have mostly passed (considering the pace of the releases so far).

The reason I still hold out is mainly that I don't think there's much of a point.  I give every episode, even ones that I think look really awful, at least some sort of chance, but in this case I just don't think I could be fair or give it much of a chance.  Because people are still dying in that war and it still upsets me too much, one of the key leaders of it yukking it up on a cartoon just sounds like too much for me to overlook, even  if its brief.  A lot of it is just that once I see him there I wouldn't really be able to think of much else, so it would essentially ruin the episode, fairly or unfairly.  For the record it also wouldn't have been a huge deal if the episode had been made and aired before the whole conflict, but the fact that they essentially made it and aired it as the war was still going on is what repulsed me too much.  If it had been made and aired beforehand it would just have become sort of a sad but ignorable scene when viewed later, but the fact that they essentially propped him up and glorified him on a cartoon while all that shit was (and is) going on is what rubbed me the wrong way.

But again, at this point I think I actually probably will probably view it one day....but likely not for a few more years.

[Reply #83 on:]

What's up with FOX? Just because The Simpsons ended their season, why did FOX dump Animation Domination? (Did they really dump it, or is it just for this Sunday?)

I checked my cable guide, and there's no Family Guy or American Dad Sunday. I was actually looking forward to American Dad, because of it's huge improvement in it's last episode aired.

[Reply #84 on:]

BUMP.

I finally saw the last 2 episodes of the season, so I figured I'd give my final grades to every episode of Season 16. Some may have changed from the first score I gave them, but hey, it all depends on how my views on the episode have changed with multiple viewings.

Treehouse of Horror XV: C
All's Fair in Oven War: B-
Sleeping With the Enemy: B+
She Used to be my Girl: B+
Fat Man, Little Boy: A-
Midnight RX: C+
Mommie Beerest: A-
Homer & Ned's Hail Mary Pass: B
Pranksta Rap: A-
There's Something About Marrying: A
On a Clear Day I Can't See My Sister: C
Goo Goo Gai Pan: B+
Mobile Homer: C
The Seven-Beer Snitch: C
Future Drama: A+
Don't Fear the Roofer: B+
The Heartbroke Kid: A
A Star is Torn: C
Thank God it's Doomsday: B
Home Away from Homer: B-
The Father, the Son and the Holy Guest Star: B-

TOP 5 EPISODES:
1. Future Drama
2. The Heartbroke Kid
3. There's Something About Marrying
4. Pranksta Rap
5. Mommie Beerest

Overall, a GREAT season. The episodes rarely went below standard, and when they did, they weren't totally bad. Even this season's worst episodes had many redeeming aspects, and were nowhere near as awful as the worst episodes from other recent seasons.

Season 16 wasn't perfect, though. There were still some aspects that brought the season down, such as the constant attention-calling to jokes, and I still believe the show could be a little smarter. Luckily, good characterising, consistent episodes and plenty of hilarious moments makes this at, without doubt, my favourite season since the classic era.

The show's been getting better and better every year since Al Jean became the Executive Producer, and I have VERY high hopes for Season 17. 

[Reply #85 on:]

Which episode did Homer mention Herb?

[Reply #86 on:]

The Heartbroke Kid.

[Reply #87 on:]

Yeah, that was a good episode. Although, the 3 weeks later bit was a little over exaggerated. I doubt the sidewalk would crack under Bart's weight. I guess thats what made it funny.

[Reply #88 on:]

I'll just come clean as to why I dislike the newer Simpsons: I find them a poor substitute for Futurama.

[Reply #89 on:]

Nah, that's Family Guy.

[Reply #90 on:]

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
I'll just come clean as to why I dislike the newer Simpsons: I find them a poor substitute for Futurama.

Seriously, why do you do this ?

Every so often you post a badly formed opinion that no one cares about, with no intention and no room for discussion.

the way you say "I'll just come clean" As If you'd been discussing with us why you don't like new simpsons but you hadn't really been honest and only now have you decided to be honest about it.
We know you don't like new simpsons, you post once a month repeating yourself.

I don't know why I'm bothering to discuss this with you, because  you probably won't read it and you'll probably make a similar post in a few months time.
If you have nothing intresting to say don't post it.

By the way my grade for Marrying  B/B+ a reasonbly good satire and decent humour on the whole, but it still all felt a bit simplistic and It didn't really build any real emotional connection to Patty.

[Reply #91 on:]

Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson herself, confirmed the Simpsons movie. More info at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/news/entertainment/050524_thesimpsons.shtml

Also, here's my review of Simpsons season 16:

Treehouse Of Horror XV:
1st segment was okay, but everyone died too quickly.
2nd segment was good, but the ending was messed up.
3rd segment was solid.

All's Fair In Oven War:Meh. Apu's sub-plot enraged me. I miss when Apu was one of the few competent Springfieldians.

Sleeping With The Enemy:Only saw the end of this one. Was pretty good. But wasn't Nelson's dad in jail? And what's with "don't have intercourse with yourself while you walk home"?

She Used To Be My Girl:Solid IMHO.

Fat Man And Little Boy:Okay, Okay, Yo.

Midnight Rx:Hated it. I would have liked it if they referenced John "Ren & Stimpy" Kricfalusi being from Canada. That would have satisfied by nerdy cravings and shown the writers did their homework. BTW, I have an early script to this episode (got it from Mike Reiss when he did a lecture at some university in Massachusetts), and the original ending (where George W. Bush can understand Lisa's speech so he changes the channel to 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy') should have stayed.

Mommie Beerest:Kinda forgettable. Maybe if I see it again and pay more attention, I'll like it more.

Homer And Ned's Hail Mary Pass:Liked the Pac-wedding. And Mario/ original Donkey Kong would've been cool if it was a fantasy (like "Raiders of the lost Arcade" from Futurama's "Anthology of Interest 2" )

Pranksta Rap:I liked that they gave Wiggum a little character development.

There's Something About Marrying:Only interesting thing about this ep. was Jackie Bouvier appearing again.

On A Clear Day I Can't See My Sister :Decent ep., but it made me hate Lisa's guts. I don't think I can't enjoy future eps. due to Lisa (once my dream girl) becoming a character I despise.

Goo Goo Gai Pan:Kinda lame, but it added a new member to the Simpsons family. I want to see fanart of an Amy Wong-esque teenage/young adult Ling.

Mobile Homer:Homer's pain gags REALLY turned me off, though otherwise this ep. was good.

The Seven-Beer Snitch:When this ep. aired, I thought it was a rerun and didn't really pay attention to it.

Future-Drama:I missed this one (I think I went to Anime Boston 2005 when this aired), but having Bender in it (and having John DiMaggio do his voice again) instantly makes it grand. Too bad Leela and/or Amy didn't appear. ): Maybe next season?

Don't Fear The Roofer:Good. IMHO the explanation as to why Bart didn't see Ray was more sci-fi mumbo-jumbo than ANYTHING on Futurama, but that doesn't take points away.

The Heartbroke Kid:Pretty good.

A Star Is Torn:Okay.

Thank God, It's Doomsday:Homer going to heaven was cool, but otherwise this was disappointing. I don’t think the Rapture really happened, as Bart and Lisa could definitely go to heaven if Homer could.

Home Away From Homer:One of the better ones this season, but it was pretty un-original :Dirty stuff on the internet that someone who is close to you is involved with- South Park: B,L&UThe stuff is spread-"Homer's Night Out"Perfect people who are really Nazi-like conformists of the bizzarest kind- Pleasantville

The Father, The Son, & The Holy Guest Star:A total retread of "She of Little Faith". Not that bad, except for Marge, Ned and Rev. Lovejoy being jerks. I liked Bart's speech about how all Christian denominations should get along, it was very much something Stan and/or Kyle would say in South Park.
So in conclusion:

Best:
The Heartbroke Kid
Home Away From Homer
 
Almost noteworthy:
Treehouse Of Horror XV
Fat Man And Little Boy
Homer And Ned's Hail Mary Pass
Pranksta Rap
On A Clear Day I Can't See My Sister
Goo Goo Gai Pan
Don't Fear The Roofer
A Star Is Torn
Thank God, It's Doomsday
The Father, The Son, & The Holy Guest Star
 
Mediocre/Boring:
All's Fair In Oven War
She Used To Be My Girl
There's Something About Marrying
Mobile Homer

Hated It:
Midnight Rx

Didn’t see it/Didn’t see all of it/Didn’t pay attention:
Sleeping With The Enemy
Mommie Beerest
The Seven-Beer Snitch
Future-Drama

[Reply #92 on:]

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
All's Fair In Oven War:Meh. Apu's sub-plot enraged me. I miss when Apu was one of the few competent Springfieldians.

Oh, you mean back when he used to sell rancid meat and overcharge everyone?

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
Sleeping With The Enemy:Only saw the end of this one. Was pretty good. But wasn't Nelson's dad in jail? And what's with "don't have intercourse with yourself while you walk home"?

His dad was also a soccer coach at some point, too. The concept of Nelson's father abandoning him had been pretty solid since Season 14, so it's acceptable. And the quote was "Go to your son Muntts, and try not to have intercourse along the way" - referring to how much of a slut Nelson's mother is, you dumbass.

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
On A Clear Day I Can't See My Sister  :Decent ep., but it made me hate Lisa's guts. I don't think I can't enjoy future eps. due to Lisa (once my dream girl) becoming a character I despise.

If one episode with Lisa somewhat off-character (I hate using that word since YOU use it all the time when you shouldn't, but I'll admit that she was too cruel for her character at times in this episode) can make you despise her forever, you really are a moron.

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
Goo Goo Gai Pan:Kinda lame, but it added a new member to the Simpsons family.

Oh yeah, Ling's really become a fan favourite. Biggest new character of the show ever. 

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
Home Away From Homer:One of the better ones this season, but it was pretty un-original  :Dirty stuff on the internet that someone who is close to you is involved with- South Park: B,L&U

That concept existed long before South Park, and if you remove the "on the internet" part, it existed long before the internet, too.

But hey, nice try at a post. 5% of what you said actually made sense this time. A new record for you, John.

[Reply #93 on:]

     

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
I'll just come clean as to why I dislike the newer Simpsons: I find them a poor substitute for Futurama.

How can The Simpsons be a substite of Futurama? The Simpsons have been around over ten years before Futurama.

Now I don't mean to come off like I hate Futurama, It's quite the opposite, I love futurama. I heard from the news section on this site, that there is talk of some new  Futurama episodes, straight to dvd. I don't know if you've mentioned this, or if this is even true, but I still hold out hope, and I will always do so, no matter what all you nay-sayer say.

Here's from the news page directly:
 
Talk about Futurama Direct to DVD

Good news, everyone?
Over the last week, several sources from within the animation business have indicated to us that there is renewed talk at FOX about bringing fresh Futurama content directly to DVD. We corroborated this with other sources close to the show before publishing the information.

The talk is of course still in a preliminary stage. Options reported to us include one or more Futurama movies in case of a go-ahead.

Even though Futurama is not sure to return and the likelihood of its return is currently unknown, this is the first time in the past few years that we have heard of Futurama being discussed at the upper levels of FOX. They'll likely have a good look at the sales of the upcoming Futurama Monster Robot Maniac Fun Collection.

As soon as we get more information on the Direct to DVD story, we'll let you know right here.

5-18-2005
[-mArc-]

Here's a link:

 http://www.gotfuturama.com/cgi-bin/ShowNews.cgi?NewsID=1116435698,36520,

[Reply #94 on:]

A: "You got your Futurama news in my Simpsons thread!"
B: "You got your Simpsons thread in my Futurama message board!"
A: "Alright, now it's on, bitch."

[Reply #95 on:]

eep.

[Reply #96 on:]

Heh, I think its okay...after all I'm sure we're all excited or at least intrigued by the talk of Futurama dvd movies.  But yeah, there's already a thread for that.

Anyways, well said Beamer.  You said a lot of better then I could.

I do wonder about that Midnight RX ending.  Not that I really trust John exactly (especcially since it sounds rather suspicious), but I'm curious.  Maybe I'll make a mental note of it and then see if they talk about it on the commentaries in sweet-zombie-jesus knows how many years.

[Reply #97 on:]

A Simpsons movie pretty much confirmed and a Futurama movie a possibility? Matt's going to be pretty booked if both happen. So, if there were to be both a Simpsons and Futurama movie in the works at the same time, which would get the most of Matt's attention?

[Reply #98 on:]

Wouldn't they both get equal attention? I'm sure both prospects are very important to Matt...

[Reply #99 on:]

 

Originally posted by Lrrr_2004:
Although, the 3 weeks later bit was a little over exaggerated. I doubt the sidewalk would crack under Bart's weight.

The whole premise of that episode was just stupid.  There's no way that he could've gotten that fat in only three weeks.  Also, lots of kids eat too much junk food, but very few of them have heart attacks at the age of ten.

 

Originally posted by User_names_suck:
By the way my grade for Marrying  B/B+ a reasonbly good satire and decent humour on the whole, but it still all felt a bit simplistic and It didn't really build any real emotional connection to Patty.

Worse than that, it ruins the ending of "Principal Charming" because if Patty is gay, then her real reason for not marrying Skinner had nothing to do with Selma's feelings.

[Reply #100 on:]

 

Originally posted by Lrrr_2004:
     How can The Simpsons be a substite of Futurama? The Simpsons have been around over ten years before Futurama.

Let me clarify:

Seasons 15 and onward of the Simpsons are a poor substitute of Futurama, in my humble opinon.

Here's my final review of the Simpsons, it is opinon, not fact, I'm not forcing my opinions on you, don't force your opinions on me:

The Simpsons have been going downhill for years, and after they made me hate Lisa in "On a Clear Day I Can't See My Sister" I can't stand anymore seasons.

Death to Homer! Long live Fry!

Death to Bart! Long live Bender!


Death to Lisa! Long live Leela!

Futurama must come back. The Simpsons outliving Futurama is like the Super Famicom/Super NES outliving the Famicom/NES (IMHO).

The episodes where Matt Groening, Sam Simon and Jim Brooks show-runned and Klasky-Csupo animated were the best by far IMHO. I agree with a lot of bigshot, Matt Wilson and Nick's opinions on the show's downfall. The early eps. mixed character development, interesting storylines, beautiful art, and side-splitting humor perfectlly. Season 4 wasn't total crap, but the show was starting to get dark (Quimby saying he had his enemies murdered) and surreal. David Samuel "X." Cohen, Ken Keeler made the show a bit better, and I'll even cut Mike Scully some slack (Mike Scully wrote "Lisa on Ice", which had an ending that I found heart-warming even as a kid), but the newer writers (starting with Ian Maxtone-Graham) are pretty bad. They can write episodes that are interesting, attempt character development and have the characters in character; but aren't funny usually. The episodes they write that ARE funny are often plauged by surreal and unrealistic gags and JerkAss Homer. Some episodes are classics ("Diabrete of a Mad Housewife" and "The Way we Weren't" ), but most are bad. Season 16 was mostly weak and anemic, I only thought most of the eps. were solid because they kept the characters in character, not because they had any humor.

[Reply #101 on:]

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi:
 
Futurama must come back. The Simpsons outliving Futurama is like the Super Famicom/Super NES outliving the Famicom/NES (IMHO).

Um, what?  That analogy doesn't even make sense.  SNES was the natural progression from NES.  Why would you want NES to outlive it?  If anything, The Simpsons outliving Futurama would be more like NES outliving SNES and SNES dying first.  But even that doesn't make sense, because they're individual tv shows with individual styles (simalar in some ways of course, but largely different) and characters, while the SNES was a technological update over the NES.  We might as well start saying that record players should have outlived CD players if we're going to be using game machines here.

And you still haven't actually explained how The Simpsons is a "poor substitute" for Futurama.  I like Futurama more then modern Simpsons too, but The Simpsons came first.  You might as well say that South Park or Will and Grace or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy are poor substitutes for Futurama.  Differences in quality aside, it would be the same principle.

[Reply #102 on:]

I hated Lisa in On A Clear Day, too but that doesn't make me hate episodes where her chacterisation is fine.

and why do futurama fanboys here insist on always defending the futurama writers. Ken Keeler's style just wasn't that suited to the Simpsons.
and Jeff Westbrook wrote On A Clear Day, it was by far one of the worst characterisations of Lisa in a Lisa Centred episode, so why don't we blame the futurama writer for that.
Bill Odenkirk also wrote the incredibly flat7 beer snitch.
Many of you would have to argue that J. Stewart Burns, didn't follow continuity and ruined Patty's character in Marrying.
A stupid  Argument because there has been hints of patty being a lesbian since Principal Charming and quite a few traits from the first couple of seasons were dropped. You should also note in that episode, Patty show's no physical intrest in Skinner, ok David A.
John, futurama has had plenty of dark and mean spirited humour so stop looking at futurama and the writers through a rose tinted glass.

[Reply #103 on:]

 

Originally posted by User_names_suck
Many of you would have to argue that J. Stewart Burns, didn't follow continuity and ruined Patty's character in Marrying.
A stupid Argument because there has been hints of patty being a lesbian since Principal Charming and quite a few traits from the first couple of seasons were dropped. You should also note in that episode, Patty show's no physical intrest in Skinner, ok David A.

And it had always been hinted before hand she was gay. In Treehouse of Horror III, when Homer darted out of the bathroom, naked, being chased by the Krusty doll she proclaimed "there goes the last lingering thread of my heterosexuality". And in Jaws Wired Shut she was in the "Stayin' In The Closet" float (along with Smithers). Not to mention, Julie Kavner has said that the difference between Patty and Selma's voice is that she does Patty with a hint of lesbian-ism.

[Reply #104 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 Um, what?  That analogy doesn't even make sense.  SNES was the natural progression from NES.  Why would you want NES to outlive it?  If anything, The Simpsons outliving Futurama would be more like NES outliving SNES and SNES dying first.  But even that doesn't make sense, because they're individual tv shows with individual styles (simalar in some ways of course, but largely different) and characters, while the SNES was a technological update over the NES.  We might as well start saying that record players should have outlived CD players if we're going to be using game machines here.

Sorry, I meant to say that Simpsons outliving Futurama is like the Famicom/NES outliving the Super Famicom/Super NES. My bad.

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
And you still haven't actually explained how The Simpsons is a "poor substitute" for Futurama.  I like Futurama more then modern Simpsons too, but The Simpsons came first.  You might as well say that South Park or Will and Grace or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy are poor substitutes for Futurama.  Differences in quality aside, it would be the same principle.

Okay, I'll explain:
Once Futurama was canceled, I had to turn to Simpsons to get my Groening fix. I watched Marge vs. lots of people, and it offended me deeply. Thus, I have an inner burning hatred of the Simpsons that I can control.

[Reply #105 on:]

You'll never make sense will you.

[Reply #106 on:]

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi
Midnight Rx:Hated it. I would have liked it if they referenced John "Ren & Stimpy" Kricfalusi being from Canada. That would have satisfied by nerdy cravings and shown the writers did their homework. BTW, I have an early script to this episode (got it from Mike Reiss when he did a lecture at some university in Massachusetts), and the original ending (where George W. Bush can understand Lisa's speech so he changes the channel to 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy') should have stayed.

John, I'm going to say something you're going to hate me for. John K. is an asshole. He made one good show, and it completly went to his head. Everything he has made since then has been average to crap. Ripping friends- Average, George Liquer- Crap, Adult Party Cartoon- Absolute fucking shit. It's not just my opinion either, it's the opinion of many. If you like him, more power to you, but the fact is, most people don't anymore besides his little internet following. The only way they would have reference John K. is if they made fun of him, then you'd be in here going on about that. I mean, shit, I'm a big fan of some fairly obscure stuff too, but I didn't get pissed when they didn't mention Father Ted in the "Father, the Son, and the Holy Guest Star".

 

Originally posted by John Pannozzi
Future-Drama:I missed this one (I think I went to Anime Boston 2005 when this aired), but having Bender in it (and having John DiMaggio do his voice again) instantly makes it grand. Too bad Leela and/or Amy didn't appear. ): Maybe next season?

John, same as last time, liking or hating an episode just because they mentioned a certain character or person is stupid(Not to say this wasn't a good episode anyway). it's fine to enjoy the cameo, but if you have a big shit eating grin on your face for an entire week after the episode airs, just cause Bender made an apperance, there's something wrong.

[Reply #107 on:]

I've seen a couple of Season 16 eps; 'Mommie Beerest' and 'She Used to be My Girl'. I could see that effort had been put into them to try and make them good, but a lot of it came off weird to me. It's almost like a transition has taken place from wacky to weird...

I found parts of both of them enjoyable, and other parts weird. I didn't like the dead health inspector joke in Mommie Beerest, not the fact that he died, but that he was still on the floor by the time the next health inspector came around. Lenny hiding a mouse in his mouth seemed weird to me too. Toilet on the roof, I can just about let it pass seeing as it's Moes after all. Homer near the beginning trying to push the food into his mouth again and again was tiresome. Homer getting out a trombone in bed and playing it was just plain out of place and character, weird again. Homer's car showing up on the airplane tracking system, that bugged me. As did Homer coming up through the toilet, then shaking off all the wet in a Looney Tunes fashion. Any sort of believability in the situation went back down that toilet, as if his car showing up on the screen hadn't already sparked enough doubt. Yes it’s a cartoon, but there should still be a certain amount of believability in The Simspons own cartoon universe for it to mean anything to the viewer. I Didn't like Moe's swearing under his breath at the end either, but that's probably more down to personal taste. The hot air balloon thing with Lisa and Bart at the end though, what the hell kind of ending was that? Plain weird again. I liked the plot itself though, that’s why it wasn’t a complete waste of time. I just about cared  enough about the characters situations, which is good...

Sorry, has to be a D+

As for the other ep, can't be bothered to review it because I felt pretty much the same about it. Half hour pity sex with Barney, oh please…

D+

[Reply #108 on:]

 

Originally posted by User_names_suck:
Many of you would have to argue that J. Stewart Burns, didn't follow continuity and ruined Patty's character in Marrying.
A stupid  Argument because there has been hints of patty being a lesbian since Principal Charming and quite a few traits from the first couple of seasons were dropped. You should also note in that episode, Patty show's no physical intrest in Skinner, ok David A.

The impression that I got from that episode was that Patty wasn't sexually attracted to anyone, of either gender.  It was pretty clear to me that she really liked Skinner, she just had no interest in having a physical relationship with him.  I guess that some people just can't handle the idea of a character who has no interest in sex.  They need to have everyone fit into one of two neat little boxes marked "heterosexual" and "homosexual" for some reason.

I mean, if she was gay, why would she go out with Skinner in the first place?  Why would she do something that she knew would hurt her sister if she wasn't genuinely interested in Skinner?

 

Originally posted by CombienReaction:
And it had always been hinted before hand she was gay. In Treehouse of Horror III, when Homer darted out of the bathroom, naked, being chased by the Krusty doll she proclaimed "there goes the last lingering thread of my heterosexuality".

That was a joke.  Seeing Homer naked would probably be enough to make most women swear off men.  Also, see my above comments about how it's possible for a woman to not be heterosexual and still not be gay.

 

And in Jaws Wired Shut she was in the "Stayin' In The Closet" float (along with Smithers).

I could say that was another instance of later writers not paying attention to past episodes, but I won't bother because it was just for the sake of a five-second joke.  I can't really think of any other Simpsons characters that could have been up there with Smithers and still made the joke work.  Ruth Powers maybe, but that's about it.

I don't mind if the writers ignore established character development for the sake of a single gag, as long as it's funny.  I do mind when the plot of an entire episode contradicts a classic episode, particularly when it's for the sake of political satire that won't even be relevant in a few years time.

 

Not to mention, Julie Kavner has said that the difference between Patty and Selma's voice is that she does Patty with a hint of lesbian-ism.

A hint of lesbianism in her voice does not mean that she's gay, just butch.

Besides, Patty and Selma have always sounded identical to me.  Are you sure that Ms. Kavner wasn't kidding when she said that?

[Reply #109 on:]

     

Originally posted by newhook_1:
 John, I'm going to say something you're going to hate me for. John K. is an asshole. He made one good show, and it completly went to his head. Everything he has made since then has been average to crap. Ripping friends- Average, George Liquer- Crap, Adult Party Cartoon- Absolute fucking shit. It's not just my opinion either, it's the opinion of many. If you like him, more power to you, but the fact is, most people don't anymore besides his little internet following. The only way they would have reference John K. is if they made fun of him, then you'd be in here going on about that. I mean, shit, I'm a big fan of some fairly obscure stuff too, but I didn't get pissed when they didn't mention Father Ted in the "Father, the Son, and the Holy Guest Star".

Yeah, agreed.  John K. in fact has always come off as a real prick whenever I read comments from him.  Someone else here (Kryten?) once said in another thread that John K. has one of the biggest egos to actual talent ratios in hollywood at this point, and  I'd probably have to agree.  He seems to vehemently hate anything that isn't "old cartoons" or his own work, even when some of his criticisms of others' work very much applies to his as well.  He used to insult The Simpsons a lot in the early days as well, though it seems everyone at The Simpsons were at least good sports about it (Matt Groening used to commonly say that he was a fan of John K's work at the time, and they payed tribute to Ren and Stimpy with Bart and Tom watching it), and I'm sure hates Futurama because it isn't in his drawing style or something.  And John (Panozzi), referencing John K. now wouldn't really make any sense, because he's not only not one of the more famous canadians, but he's really not especcially famous at all with the regular public; Ren and Stimpy isn't even a relevant thing to bring up either, since the one people actually watched/cared about last aired about ten years ago, and even back then most people didn't know the man's name.  Canada has its prides and joys of famous people, and John K. just isn't all that high on their list, especcially since he just hasn't done anything even worth noting since the original Ren and Stimpy.

   

Originally Posted by David A
The impression that I got from that episode was that Patty wasn't sexually attracted to anyone, of either gender. It was pretty clear to me that she really liked Skinner, she just had no interest in having a physical relationship with him. I guess that some people just can't handle the idea of a character who has no interest in sex. They need to have everyone fit into one of two neat little boxes marked "heterosexual" and "homosexual" for some reason.

I mean, if she was gay, why would she go out with Skinner in the first place? Why would she do something that she knew would hurt her sister if she wasn't genuinely interested in Skinner?

A lot of homosexuals actually go through a (often very long) period of self-denial or uncertainty about their orientation.  Some even get married and parent children before really coming to grips with it.  This could in fact explain why she came to enjoy Skinner's company (because no one outside of Selma and Marge were ever friendly with her or appreciated her at all), but at the same time didn't send him away on the basis of her sexuality, because she herself hadn't really come to terms with it.  She may have just been a little confused and sort of convinced herself that she was actually interested in Skinner (and to some extent she was, again in the sense of him being one of the few people she'd probably ever met that really appreciated her at all).  In this sense I don't think it really affects "Principal Charming" much at all, because her basic reasoning for dumping Skinner (not wanting to leave her sister) is still as of that point the same; the only thing "Marrying" does is maybe give a better explanation as to why Patty would be able to dump Skinner as easily as she does, because to be honest it never came off as %100 believable to me.

And if you really just don't like "Marrying" or the change, I think you can just sort of ignore it and continue to enjoy Charming, much like many Star Wars fans have done with the prequels.

And just to note, that THOH III gag was the most direct, but it wasn't the only at least slight hint; Patty always seemed to show a lack of interest in men, and seemed to make comments like "that's girl's stuff", etc on occasion.  I know its not totally concrete, but Marrying wouldn't have been as interesting if it was (like with Smithers).

     

I don't mind if the writers ignore established character development for the sake of a single gag, as long as it's funny. I do mind when the plot of an entire episode contradicts a classic episode, particularly when it's for the sake of political satire that won't even be relevant in a few years time.

I think you're underestimating the issue a bit.  Homophobia and gay rights themselves have been a relevant issue for decades, ever since many other civil rights struggles of the 60's and 70's ended up starting up gay rights struggles as well.  Gay marriage itself isn't likely to be legalized at any large scale for quite some time, and even when it does it will likely be fought over for many years before (to put it frankly) the main generations that currently widely oppose it die off from old age.  It is a current "hot-button" issue right now, which is of course a lot of inspiration for that episode's creation, but consider this: "Much Apu About Nothing" was similarly inspired by then very recent events (look up California's "Proposition 187" from 1994 sometime, or just look at the SNPP capsule for the episode where they explain it and point out all the similarities), and that episode is basically just as relevant ten years later as it was in 1995.  Its probably even more relevant at the moment then it was just a few years ago, since the immigration issue has flared up a lot again in the last couple years.  "Marrying" isn't going to lose direct relevance for some time, and even when it does, it will still be relevant in its discussions of prejudice and discrimination, just as many older works about discrimination against blacks, women, etc, and works about racism and similar phobias still are.

[Reply #110 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
A lot of homosexuals actually go through a (often very long) period of self-denial or uncertainty about their orientation. Some even get married and parent children before really coming to grips with it.

Yeah, and some people just aren't gay.

 

the only thing "Marrying" does is maybe give a better explanation as to why Patty would be able to dump Skinner as easily as she does, because to be honest it never came off as %100 believable to me.

What's not believable about it?  Patty sacrificed her happiness to avoid hurting her sister.  That's not a choice that everyone would make, but it's an admirable one.  Really, that's one of the few likable things about Patty: the fact that she puts her sister's happiness before her own.  Making Patty gay robs her sacrifice of meaning.

 

And if you really just don't like "Marrying" or the change, I think you can just sort of ignore it and continue to enjoy Charming, much like many Star Wars fans have done with the prequels.

I suppose so.  At least it's just one episode to ignore, not an entire movie trilogy; and Simpsons continuity being what it is, the whole Patty being gay thing may never even be mentioned again.

 

And just to note, that THOH III gag was the most direct, but it wasn't the only at least slight hint; Patty always seemed to show a lack of interest in men, and seemed to make comments like "that's girl's stuff", etc on occasion.

I think that you're forgetting about her fondness for Richard Dean Anderson.

Also, I still don't see how showing a lack of interest in men makes her gay.

[Reply #111 on:]

no-one has posted about the movie have they?
if not then there is soon to be 3 of them.
The Simpsons Movie

[Reply #112 on:]

Soon? Hahaha. Anyway...

I'm surprised The Simspons Season 6 DVD artwork hasn't been released yet. I'm most disappointed, and with every day that passes I'm getting slightly concerned...

I just hope the reasoning for this is that they're making it kickass, and not that they're gonna delay it...

[Reply #113 on:]

Well, Cartwright did recently say it could come out in a couple years (they just did a read-through of the script).  But yeah, don't trust tv tome or movie tome.  In fact, that page specifically lists a rumored plotline that's been circulating for a long time, and has absolutely no basis to it.

 

Originally posted by David A

That doesn't mean it isn't feasable that Patty went through her own period of denial or uncertainty though.

 

What's not believable about it? Patty sacrificed her happiness to avoid hurting her sister. That's not a choice that everyone would make, but it's an admirable one. Really, that's one of the few likable things about Patty: the fact that she puts her sister's happiness before her own. Making Patty gay robs her sacrifice of meaning.

Its mostly believable, but I always thought it was at least a little odd that she would be willing to give up romance entirely just for her sister, especcially since Selma wasn't exactly doing the same (in that episode or throughout the series).  Even in "Charming" she seems to show a lack of interest in Skinner a lot of the time, which is partially what made it a little more believable.

 

I think that you're forgetting about her fondness for Richard Dean Anderson.

That is true.  No real way to explain it beyond the denial idea, ala Mr. Garrison's frequent odd comments in earlier South Parks.

And the lack of interest doesn't make her inheritely gay (you're right, there are some people who just choose celibacy), but it just makes it a little more likely then with most of the other characters.

[Reply #114 on:]

Look, you can come up with whatever justifications you want for the idea that Patty was always gay all along, but I still don't think that the writers of "Charming" had that in mind when they wrote it.

"Marrying" was a poor episode either way.  It just wasn't very funny.

[Reply #115 on:]

 

Originally posted by David A:
Look, you can come up with whatever justifications you want for the idea that Patty was always gay all along, but I still don't think that the writers of "Charming" had that in mind when they wrote it.

Well I know that, I'm just speaking retroactively (similar in fact to the way the Star Wars prequels sometimes work).  They didn't intend her to be gay, no, but they found a character for whom it would be plausable (MacGyver aside).  They didn't originally mean Jebediah Springfield to be a fake either, and "Lisa the Iconoclast" doesn't ruin "The Telltale Head" or anything.  Same with Apu as an illegal immigrant (even if it was likely), Homer's mother being alive, Itchy being ripped off, etc.  You can reveal things without it being inconsistant with old shows or what we already know about the characters (though of course Skinner as a fake was pushing it).

Whether or not the episode was funny is of course subjective.  My feeling is that that episode might actually be looked on especcially fondly in coming years though.

[Reply #116 on:]

Couldn't agree more with you, DtB. Although, I think that the idea to out Patty was conceived well before the 16th Season, and they decided to drop a few "hints" to it in earlier episodes; and to make it look less "inconsistant". The "Stayin' In The Closet" gag being the obvious one, Patty saying that "Nookie In New York" is so much like her life (the show was about gay women who acted like gay men) and her removing her bra when they were having a "Only Girl's Night".

They just lucked out that other than Skinner and MacGyver, there'd been no constant references to Patty's sexuality.

[Reply #117 on:]

 

Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 Well I know that, I'm just speaking retroactively (similar in fact to the way the Star Wars prequels sometimes work).

If you've read any of my posts in the Star Wars threads, then I think you already know how I feel about that.

Hey, maybe they could go back and make changes to the earlier episodes to make it look like Patty was always gay.  That's what George Lucas would do.

 

They didn't intend her to be gay, no, but they found a character for whom it would be plausable (MacGyver aside).  They didn't originally mean Jebediah Springfield to be a fake either, and "Lisa the Iconoclast" doesn't ruin "The Telltale Head" or anything.  Same with Apu as an illegal immigrant (even if it was likely), Homer's mother being alive, Itchy being ripped off, etc.  You can reveal things without it being inconsistant with old shows or what we already know about the characters (though of course Skinner as a fake was pushing it).

Actually, I never had any problem with the Skinner thing, because it really didn't change anything.  Skinner's still the same guy he always was, even if that's not his real name; and he and his mom are still family, even if they're not biologically related.  Besides, that whole episode was making fun of the sort of retroactive continuity changes that you're talking about, as should be obvious from the ending where the judge decrees that no one should ever mention that it happened.

 

Whether or not the episode was funny is of course subjective.  My feeling is that that episode might actually be looked on especcially fondly in coming years though.

Like you said, it's subjective; but I can't actually think of anything from that episode that made me laugh.  It just wasn't up to the standard set by the rest of the season.  (Although a few of the other episodes this season fell flat as well.)

 

Originally posted by CombienReaction:
the show was about gay women who acted like gay men

No, the show was about straight women who acted like gay men.  The bit about the show reminding Patty and Selma of their lives was supposed to be ironic.

I'm not sure what you think removing her bra has to do with her sexuality.  She took off her bra because she was going to spend the evening at home with her sisters, and those things get uncomfortable after a while.  Just ask any woman about that.

[Reply #118 on:]

 

Originally Posted by David A
No, the show was about straight women who acted like gay men. The bit about the show reminding Patty and Selma of their lives was supposed to be ironic.

Was it? It's been a while since I saw that episode and I'm just going from memory...

 

Originally posted by David A
I'm not sure what you think removing her bra has to do with her sexuality. She took off her bra because she was going to spend the evening at home with her sisters, and those things get uncomfortable after a while. Just ask any woman about that.

Well... I didn't know, and by all means shouldn't know, that bras got uncomfortable after a while,
I obviously just interpreted it as a hint to her sexuality. I don't know how I got to that exactly, she just seemed eager to get her bra off after she said "girls night in".

I suck at, uh, understanding jokes about bras...

[Reply #119 on:]

 

Originally posted by David A:
 Actually, I never had any problem with the Skinner thing, because it really didn't change anything. Skinner's still the same guy he always was, even if that's not his real name; and he and his mom are still family, even if they're not biologically related. Besides, that whole episode was making fun of the sort of retroactive continuity changes that you're talking about, as should be obvious from the ending where the judge decrees that no one should ever mention that it happened.

Well....yes and no.  The truth about that episode is that at the beginning it actually was a cliche, stupid piece of shit (and still is, really).  About halfway through production they realized they were making a mistake, so they created an ending making fun of those sorts of things, and essentially attacking themselves for making the same mistake, as well as making it so that no one could ever bring up that episode again and it wouldn't have to affect later shows.  To this day they always denounce that episode as a huge mistake.

After thinking about it a while back I eventually noticed that Oakley and Weinstein seemed to really like doing those kinds of "revelation" shows in their years (Homer's mother, Itchy's original creator, Jebediah Springfield as a murderous pirate, Apu the illegal, Burns has a son, etc), but they were usually careful to "correct" everything at the end so it didn't affect later shows.  In the case of "Pauper" they went too far, and the show's staff has always acknowledged it.