Shipping Even Higher into the Sun...

[Reply #520 on:]

Weird.  When I posted this, I just looked up to see my Fry figure staring at me right in the eye from my shelf where i had put him.  Furrreaaaky!

Do I hear wedding bells?

Fry's plan in BBS indeed made no sense. I really didn't like the "lesson learned" from that movie. If you love someone, let them go and do everything in your power so that they're happy and you're not. Greeeeat. Better call my ex girlfriend and ask her whether she and her new boyfriend need a nice, barely used computer or some cash.

Other than that, I agree with SpaceGoldfish. Fry seems to be quite content with his life. It's not perfect, but it's a whole lot better than it used to be. Yet, he grows increasingly whiny and instead of becoming more mature, becomes increasingly infantile. He's (apparently) 30, for the love of Zombie Jesus!

[Reply #521 on:]

Probably.  I rarely close my curtains when I change, and that's enough to make Fry consider us a couple. Though he might be upset that I gave Amy his raygun to hold (Amy dropped hers when i put my stuff into storage and its been lost since).  Well he still gets to keep the Holophoner.


He's almost 40 DUHN DUNH DUNHHHN.  But Fry ending up in the future is the best thing that ever happened to him.  He'd probably have spent the last ten years shuttling between his parent's couch and Michelle's (whenever she decides she's bored of cheating on him and just wants to "see other people" for the forseeable future.)
 

[Reply #522 on:]

But Fry ending up in the future is the best thing that ever happened to him.

Agreed. Though I hate "The Cryonic Woman," I do appreciate that moment at Planet Express where Michelle expresses confusion about Fry's ability to fit in so well in the year 3000, and Leela tells her, quite insightfully, that this is probably because he didn't fit in in his own time.

That said, though Fry has become whinier as the show has gone on, he usually isn't bitching and moaning about how much he misses his family and friends from the twentieth century. Isn't "Xmas Story," the seventeenth episode of the series, the last time he really makes a big to-do about not having a family anymore? From that point on, most of his whining has revolved around his makeshift PE family not caring for him: Bender leaves him, Leela rejects him, yadda yadda yadda.

I suppose you could say that Fry's ability to care for people as deeply as he cares for his best friends shows a certain growth on his part, though the immature manner in which he deals with life's disappointments can be plenty frustrating. Fry had a certain edge to him when he first came to the future (particularly when it came to women: he easily leaves Umbriel and Michelle, after all), and though I do appreciate how his love for Leela has made his character more sympathetic, I wish he didn't feel compelled to be so suppliant or to treat her like this delicate thing that he might lose if he makes one wrong move. Like, grow a pair, dude.

[Reply #523 on:]

Well... he treats Leela like this delicate thing that he might lose if he makes the wrong move...

because that's pretty much how she acts.  Fry can do the grandest, most romantic gesture one day, but she will have dumped him for some lowlife bozo next week for excuses that are always flimsy at best.  The Grow a Pair argument works much better when he tries killing himself after Colleen dumps him.  I was like seriously?  I suppose it could be a despair event horizon that he just can't catch a break with women but even so.

Anyway Season 6 was so frustratingly inconsistent about Fry/Leela that I just want them to stay together because I am sick of inconsistency.  Personally I prefer Fry/Amy, but I want Fry/Leela to stay together just because of how its been handled now.  If Leela still finds an excuse to be a fickle on again off again stringer alonger in season 7 even after the ending of OVERCLOCKWISE FOR LAWD'S SAEK i am going to scream.

Fry makes a great point in that episode.  "If it were up to me we'd be on all the time."  Exactly.  Leela puts no effort into her relationship and ends it/picks it up again when it suits her.  She gets what she puts into it, and I really want the writers to stop messing with her character.  I really came to dislike Leela over the last few seasons of the classic run, and I'm only really just beginning to like her again.   And if they carry on with her the way they are going, it's going to be back to square one.

[Reply #524 on:]

If Leela still finds an excuse to be a fickle on again off again stringer alonger in season 7 even after the ending of OVERCLOCKWISE FOR LAWD'S SAEK i am going to scream.

Just for the record:My guess is a season 7 Leela that  is off-again, off-again, with hints that it might be on in some distant future (pre movie status).
The writers will probably be stubborn about the "Fry gets Leela in the last Episode" aspect. My guess regarding overclockwise was "Leela leaves Fry, and Bender sees them together in the Future". Though it's not been finally off in that episode, a real "on again" was also not shown in "Overclockwise", and I think my guess came rather close to that episode's event.

So, my forecast regarding season 7: They used season 6 to write themselves out of the movies to re-establish the pre-movie status.
(Just made this post that I could go "See? Told ya so" should exactly this happen in season 7 )

[Reply #525 on:]

The Grow a Pair argument works much better when he tries killing himself after Colleen dumps him.  I was like seriously?  I suppose it could be a despair event horizon that he just can't catch a break with women but even so.

I hate that moment. It's needlessly melodramatic, and Colleen is such a nonentity that I can't buy Fry jumping ship from this universe because this trashy girl doesn't like him anymore. I would have been slightly more convinced if he was so hung-up on Leela--but, even then, Fry's actions at that point in Billion Backs are so pansy-ish.

If Leela still finds an excuse to be a fickle on again off again stringer alonger in season 7 even after the ending of OVERCLOCKWISE FOR LAWD'S SAEK i am going to scream.

Maybe I'm just being overly-optimistic, but I really do think the writers are going to make Fry and Leela a real couple in season seven. They have to realize that all the game-playing has gotten really old by now--otherwise, they're being as dumb as Fry. Each finale has kind of built on the one that preceded it: Devil's Hands ended ambiguously and showed us that Fry had not necessarily won Leela's heart, but that she had appreciated his opera and some progress had been made; Green Yonder ended with an "I love you" and a tender display of tonguesmanship; and "Overclockwise" set aside the issue of whether or not Fry and Leela love each other (because it's obvious that they do) and instead explored the viability of their relationship long-term. There's been definite progress in the relationship when you take a panoramic view of the series, regardless of the on-again/off-again nonsense in season six (which, at the very least, the writers acknowledged in "Overclockwise").

Leela puts no effort into her relationship and ends it/picks it up again when it suits her.

I don't know how true this is. I mean, Fry doesn't pay Leela much mind in "That Darn Katz!" (leading to her telling Nibbler that she doesn't have a man), and he outright sleeps with the mayor's wife in "Ghost in the Machines." I do think that Leela has transgressed just as much as Fry has ("Fry Am the Egg Man" being the most notable example), but she didn't seem too keen on dumping the guy throughout most of 6B (and pretty much all of 6A).

Elsewhere on PEEL (in the "Overclockwise" review thread, I think) I made a list of the missteps made by both Fry and Leela in season six, but the conclusion I came to is that neither one of them has been a hundred percent committed to the relationship. Maybe this is because Leela is bitchy and indecisive...but part of the blame has to fall on Fry, too. Like we've been saying, he's an immature guy, and simply loving a person with all your heart does not mean you are able to sustain a relationship with them. Fry wants to be "on all the time" with Leela, but I'm not sure he knows what it takes to make a relationship work--and that's what had Leela so bothered, the idea of Fry having these vague hopes for their future without really putting a lot of effort into it.

[Reply #526 on:]

You girls just don't understand how we guys really feel.

* Svip runs off crying.

[Reply #527 on:]

God, my brain is so freaking female.  If I turn out to be a guy it's going to be a total freaking mind screw.

I have to admit Gorky, you are right, but I was going on the whole picture rather then just season 6.  Leela treats all the grand romantic gestures Fry has done before like they never happened.  They might have been in a rut at that point (but we can't know for sure because we never saw them as a couple all that much), but there's the opera, Fry saving her life on Valentine's day, the events of The Sting, seeing they were happily married in another universe, Fry sacrificing herself to save her in Rebirth, eeing what Fry can be like as Lars, Fry willingly mutating himself for her in TMAR...

And she's still acting like Fry is some deadbeat bozo whose never done anything romantic for her or their relationship.  While I think Leela had every right to want better for herself in life and be constantly striving towards new goals, she just came off as needlessly demanding, dramatic and high mantainance in that episode.   He can't write an opera for you or reunite you with your parents or save your life on Valentine's every other day you know, Leela. I'd still think that even if we had seen them as a couple this season more, and they were in a rut.

And i do agree with you about Coleen.  Sure she's a nice girl, but Fry was so overly dramatic about dumping her it came off as pretty ridiculous.  Sure some of it could be Fry trying to move on from being constantly dumped by the girl of his dreams, and having things go pear shaped with his new girlfriend, but it was still pretty ridiculous, trying to kill himself over a girl who wasn't really worth it to begin with.  He hadn't tried to kill himself over Leela (who is his soulmate) or when he broke up with Amy (who was a superior potential girlfriend to Coleen in every way and then some, not that's saying much.)  Still, at least he wasn't going all nutterbutters over Michelle, who is a horrible person in every way.  

[Reply #528 on:]

Probably.  I rarely close my curtains when I change, and that's enough to make Fry consider us a couple. Though he might be upset that I gave Amy his raygun to hold (Amy dropped hers when i put my stuff into storage and its been lost since).  Well he still gets to keep the Holophoner.

Do you remember how I told you about always ending your story a sentence earlier, except when female nudity involved? Oh wait, female nudity WAS involved, so never mind.

I mentioned earlier that for loving Leela so much, Fry cares an awful lot about other women whom he barely knows. There's Lucy Liu, Coleen, Michelle (he doesn't care that much about her, but was willing to abandon the future for her)... they shouldn't have it both ways. Either he cares deeply about one and one person only, appearently Leela, or he is the way he was portrayed in Season 1 and 2. With some feelings towards Leela, but still interested in other women, when the opportunity arises. They mixed it: He has strong feelings for Leela, but when the writers want to toss in another woman in the mix, he suddenly has strong feelings for THAT woman instead (or "as well" or whatever...).

My guess is that they still won't be a couple in the next season. The Fry-Leela-relationship is a pretty central part of Futurama, I don't think they'll dare to change it fundamentally.  

[Reply #529 on:]

God, I hope they're a couple next season, I really do. But I wouldn't be surprised if we returned to pre-movie status yet again. It'd be a bad decision on the writers' part to keep beating this dying horse, but if it's to be done, it will be done.

Fry and Leela both have their flaws, but I just don't see how these flaws (or their respective strengths) can be developed any further without them trying life out as a committed couple.

[Reply #530 on:]

Exactly.  Plus them being a couple opens up new story ideas.  If anything, them being a couple means Leela has twice as much reason to be on Fry's case.  And Fry also has more reasons to keep coming up with grand romantic gestures, since that's how he rolls with the girl he loves.

[Reply #531 on:]

One thing about the "Fry/Leela relationship being a "strong point of that series".
It was while it was a developing plot. Right now -after Fry basically had won Leela- it will rather be the "retelling of a tale that has already been told",and therefore becoming extremely predictable (He wins her, and by the end of that episode, some small event will be sufficent to undo it).

For that reason, I liked the couple-wise interpretation in season6: The whole story became less predictable, and looked "fresher", "newer" (the ending will NOT be Fry nearly getting Leela and messing up again, but...well...whatever the ending may be, it will be something NEW )
Besides, abandoning the old "Fry chasing after Leela" subplot will force the writers to come up with new long running subplots (I want new long-running subplots )

[Reply #532 on:]

Exactly.   Fry and Leela are being handled even more shoddily then Ross and Rachel now.

[Reply #533 on:]

Fross and Reela.

[Reply #534 on:]

And she's still acting like Fry is some deadbeat bozo whose never done anything romantic for her or their relationship.

I don't really see this in the new episodes. Fry has done some wonderful things for Leela in season six (saving her life in "Lrrreconcilable Ndndifferences," mutating himself in "The Mutants Are Revolting," getting rid of Mr. Peppy because he doesn't want him to hurt her in "Fry Am the Egg Man," sort of nonchalantly agreeing to sacrifice himself to save her life in "Cold Warriors"), but I don't think Leela has expected these things.

And, ultimately, what she has asked of him as a quasi-girlfriend in season six has been pretty mundane: take me to dinner on my birthday (TLPJF), prove to me that you find me attractive (TPoB...and it's worth noting that Fry wants the same thing of her in that episode), tell me where our relationship is going ("Overclockwise").

I don't seem to recall her pulling the you're-so-immature card on Fry at all this season, nor has she been putting him down too consistently (the only exception I can think of, really, is "Law and Oracle"); she defends him as "different-y" in "The Duh-Vinci Code" and shows great concern for his well-being in "Ghost in the Machines." Overall, her behavior towards him has been a lot gentler and kinder than it was in, say, the first two movies. So that's progress, in my book.

Then again, Leela apologist that I am, I may be forgetting some awful, harpy-like behavior on her part in S6--so correct me if I've missed anything.

Besides, abandoning the old "Fry chasing after Leela" subplot will force the writers to come up with new long running subplots (I want new long-running subplots )

Agreed. And also, I really wish the writers would give us some sort of resolution with this whole "Other" business, and what better time to explore that story point than with Fry and Leela in a relationship and Nibbler a glorified, sentient PE crew member?

[Reply #535 on:]

Though he might be upset that I gave Amy his raygun to hold (Amy dropped hers when i put my stuff into storage and its been lost since).  Well he still gets to keep the Holophoner.

I doubt he's upset about the raygun. After all, Fry can cause more havoc with his Holophoner than a whole raygun wielding army may every hope to inflict...

[Reply #536 on:]

I disagree Gorky, if a guy (or girl, let's not be sexist here) had done all those things for you during and leading up to your relationship, don't you think they deserve a little better then how Leela treated Fry during Overclockwise?

"Oh sure you saved my life multiple times, mutated yourself for me, helped me free my family and my people from their miserable existance in the sewers, sacrificed your body to shield mine, wrote an opera, helped me reuinte with my estranged parents, saved me from a shape shifting pervert bigamist" (I could go on like this for ages)
"But nothing like that has happened recently, so I'm dumping you like a sack of yesterday's turds.  I'm going to go sell real estate because that's so much more fuffilling then being a starship captain with you. Toodles."

I felt Leela's decision to want more with her life was perfectly sane, she has every right to want a more interesting life.  But instead of really trying to discuss it with Fry, she just demanded a solution right off the bat, and went off.  Fry asked "I dunno... but we'll figure it out together, won't we?"  And she easily could have done figured that out if she actually talked to him properly about it.   I mean moving with her to sell real estate is a lot less dramatic then... freezing yourself for a thousand years because the Queen of the Harpies Michelle is too lazy to try and adapt to the year 3000 and somehow believes she will fit into the year 4000 better.

I don't think Leela was too bad this season you are right, but I think Overclockwise just put her in a negative light.  As did her flirting with that creep in Fry am the Egg Man (I thought her interactions with Fry and his pet were cute... until Angus came along.  You know that guy whose basically Zapp Brannigan, only fatter and uglier and obsessed with wiping out endangered species?  You know... basically everything Leela hates?  The platonic friend line was just cruel.)

I just think Overclockwise could have made Leela sympathetic, (what she wanted was perferctly understandable) but the way she went about it just made her seem like a fickle, high maintainence diva.  It just makes me think even with the ending of Overclockwise, she is still going to find some trivial, petty reason to dump him in Season 7.   Plus the way she instantly expected Fry to take her back (which he did) just shows she really takes him for granted.

[Reply #537 on:]

Plus the way she instantly expected Fry to take her back (which he did) just shows she really takes him for granted.

The "taking for granted" is not only a private, but also a business trait they sometimes write on Leela. E.g. "Bird-Bot of Ice-Catraz": Leela dumping her job and walzing off  (leaving Fry in the end to clean things up). Leaving in IGWY. Or wandering off in "Overclockwise". And every time -though off screen- expecting to get her old Captain Rank back. With the newly appointed captain/pilot stepping back immediatelly and accepting a lower rank, because Leela did all of sudden change her mind again.

(Having a bad conscience about this aspect would imhO help: One the one side knowing this kind of behaviour is basically not all right,but remaining human enough to accept a certain injustice in her own favor).

[Reply #538 on:]

I don't think Leela was too bad this season you are right, but I think Overclockwise just put her in a negative light.  As did her flirting with that creep in Fry am the Egg Man (I thought her interactions with Fry and his pet were cute... until Angus came along.  You know that guy whose basically Zapp Brannigan, only fatter and uglier and obsessed with wiping out endangered species?  You know... basically everything Leela hates?  The platonic friend line was just cruel.)

THANK YOU, I thought I was the only one. FAtEM started really strong... and suddenly they got to a boring parody of Scotland or Ireland or whatever and she starts flirting with an arrogant, gross-looking macho guy. Who is also a hunter. What an obvious match! And she does all that with Fry being present and calls him a "stricly platonic friend". I really feel like the writers have completely different views on the Leela-Fry relationship, so we get this senseless and annoying flip-flopping. Being on-again-off-again is one thing, but that scene in FAtEM was simply a disgrace.

[Reply #539 on:]

Argh... stupid double post. Why is there no self-destruct button? Why?

[Reply #540 on:]

I recall your post being so great, it required such an immediate re-post.

[Reply #541 on:]

I recall your post being so great, it required such an immediate re-post.

The "quote" and "edit" buttons are confusingly close.

[Reply #542 on:]

I can dismiss Leela's occasional flirtations with other men as being a result of a reduced societal emphasis on monogamy in the 31st century... which is something one might expect to occur if modern relationship trends are extrapolated to their logical conclusion.
At the end of Proposition Infinity the very notion of monogamy hadn't even occurred to Bender. Then there's Fry's short-lived girlfriend in Billion Backs. I think it's possibly that Polygamy is a socially-accepted norm. And while Leela mightn't actually practice it, she'd certainly be less reluctant to express interest in other men due to having been born and raised in a world where it is not something unusual.
This is a culture-clash. Future world and all that. She may see nothing at all wrong or unusual in it, and for her it may in no way be seen to diminish her feelings for Fry.

Of course, I'm just making this up to try to smooth things over.

[Reply #543 on:]

A common theory about the "McZongo Incident" was:

- She just wanted a quick flirt as "self-confidence boost".
- The planned "Peppy-Killing" demanded infuence on McZongo.
- The "platonic friend" should signal she was "available",  increasing the chance he might follow her suggestion with the expectation as a reward/getting her.

Also leading to some kind of punishment for that flirt, as she had to put up with McZongo -to keep an eye on him- longer than initially planned (one evening flirt, and that's it, and suddendly it turned into several days).

Later on, only the "Don't worry about McZongo" was delivered with a friendly face, the "We are having lunch" looked neutral, and the "I'm thinking of wearing THIS" doesn't show a thrilled Leela face at all.
Could be the old woman problem "I have nothing to wear...WAAAH", but also Leela's refusal to tune herself up for a date she does not really wanna go ("That's good enough for the likes of him".)

[Reply #544 on:]

*doesn't bother reading the above*

Hey, whatever happened to "the Other"?

[Reply #545 on:]

The writing staff love to screw with shippers.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but it seems to be at the expense of the characters, which is. S6 has definitely pegged the OOC meter a few times.

[Reply #546 on:]

6B was not heavy on continuous plots, nor epic events.
Should 7A's story style follow 6B, it's unlikely we have that question answered in that season.
(I repeat myself: 6A vs 6B was in a certain way -put in a very simplified manner- "Running plots" vs "Running Gags", and I REALLY hope the "Running plots" do win that battle.)

[Reply #547 on:]

Hear hear.
I want the show to become so mired in ongoing plot arcs and complex mythology that new viewers will be unable to comprehend what's going on. Shows like that are my favourite. (No, I'm not being sarcastic).

[Reply #548 on:]

I think most new viewers are able to cope with such "highly complicated" links as between TDESS and TWOF, or the mutants being allowed on the surface fromTMAR (or Leela being revealed to be a mutant after LHW), etc...

[Reply #549 on:]

Nah, I want an entire season with an ongoing plot arc; one episode leading into the next, and into the next, and so fourth. Serial, as opposed to episodic. The kind of thing that alienates everybody but die-hards.
Far too awesome to ever happen.

[Reply #550 on:]

Hear hear.
I want the show to become so mired in ongoing plot arcs and complex mythology that new viewers will be unable to comprehend what's going on. Shows like that are my favourite. (No, I'm not being sarcastic).

As long as it doesn't become like Doctor Who.

[Reply #551 on:]

And just what the fuck is wrong with Doctor Who?!

[Reply #552 on:]

\

[Reply #553 on:]

And just what the fuck is wrong with Doctor Who?!

It's getting quite boring, too much complicated stuff and plot arcs, not enough visiting a location, fighting a monster, being the hero then moving on, and repeat.

[Reply #554 on:]

And just what the fuck is wrong with Doctor Who?!

It's getting quite boring, too much complicated stuff and plot arcs, not enough visiting a location, fighting a monster, being the hero then moving on, and repeat.

Plot arcs are nothing new to Who. Neither are complicated multi-episode stories.

Lrn2Who.

[Reply #555 on:]

I prefer the more subtle plot arcs, Bad Wolf and Torchwood.

[Reply #556 on:]

And just what the fuck is wrong with Doctor Who?!

The way every episode is 40 minutes of brilliant set up followed by the crappiest, laziest deus ex machina ending imaginable.

[Reply #557 on:]

Oh you're all talking about the new generation of Doctor Who, with all the CGI and trendy younger Doctors.
I was thinking about the real Doctor Who.

In any event, there's a thread for that elsewhere.

[Reply #558 on:]

Nah, I want an entire season with an ongoing plot arc; one episode leading into the next, and into the next, and so fourth. Serial, as opposed to episodic. The kind of thing that alienates everybody but die-hards.
Far too awesome to ever happen.

This could be very, very cool.
I can think of at least one plot hole that a story like that could fill. Imagine if the arc culminated with us learning more about the prophecy, and Leela as "the other"?
Then again, I'm not sure that I'd want the hypothetical ongoing arc to be blatantly shippy.

[Reply #559 on:]

Two more seasons have been ordered, right? How about a nice prophecy-fulfilling, ship-resolving two or three-parter?

I'd like more ongoing plot arc too, but this might be the best to hope for.