Ship Trek: Deep Thread Nine

[Reply #600 on:]

 

Originally posted by winna:
The thing here is that a lot of you want Fry & Leela to be together... bad enough that you've made yourself believe they are meant for eachother and that there is no other logical resolution than the two of them being together forever.  They're only fictional characters, even if we want to transplant our own fantasies onto them... and even if they were real, that's not how real life works; it's not a simple answer of two particular people should be together just cause.... and what you fail to realize is that the happy ending you expect is heart crushing.  As a saying I once heard goes: "All happy endings are just stories that haven't finished yet."

Futurama's still an animated comedy sci-fi drama. Just like most animated comedies, and many comedies for that matter, the laws of reality don't apply as viewers watch comedies for both laughs and even some rays of hope. Because Futurama follows the laws of an animated comedy, Fry and Leela are almost certain to get together. Futurama ain't Srubs for sure- not every episode is reminded of reality.

So, I think I'm both agreeing and disagreeing with you, but I'm not quite sure.

[Reply #601 on:]

That kinda leads in to my theory. I don't think the first two movies (BWABB in particular) are meant to change the Fry/Leela dynamic that was set up in the original series. Rather I think they were meant as a kind of giant reset button. Throw in some conflict and difficulty that will be dealt with in ITWGY.

[Reply #602 on:]

Can I get a witness? Anyone?
These were some of my thoughts regarding character development in the first 2 movies... so did anyone else think concurrently?
Also true that my interpretation of the show is greatly shaped by what I want to happen, as Winna mentioned...

[Reply #603 on:]

That actually makes quite a bit of sense.

[Reply #604 on:]

Firstly I agree with what AL and Frisco are saying. (I’ll get back to that)
Second could someone tell me where to find some more in depth arguments as to why some shippers really hate the first two movies? I haven’t read most of this thread but I’ve skimmed it a little and I haven't found many real arguments. This is probably because they already posted their full reviews elsewhere and don't want to write them over every time they mention their distaste for the movies. A general overview of main criticisms would be great or just point me to a thread where most of this took place. I’ve only been here a week so I missed when the initial hatred started.

I liked the first one and although I was extremely weirded out by the second one I’ve grown fond of it for pure comedic value. Neither as good as some of the best episodes but id still put them at average to above average.

One argument I think has come up is the reset button between the fourth season and the first movie. I think the Fry/Leela thing was supposed to go on longer but they started speeding it up for the end of the series. Once the show came back they tried to recapture the tension they had in the previous seasons so they could make an interesting story. This is what Frisco and AL seem to be saying. Score is just a reintroduction to the series. It’s not the realization of what happens after the last episode. That's what the fourth one is for. Score is a setup for the fourth one.
Even besides all that I thought it was well done enough that I really didn't care that much. I’m in a new generation of Futurama fans so maybe it's just because I didn't have to wait that long for the next movie. Anticipation and expectations hadn't been building up for years and I was still used to the reset button in the series.


As far as what Frida was saying up top, I think I expect more than a fairy tale ending from Futurama. Then again I expect more out of any love story after "eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind." not necessarily a sad ending but not a cliché one.  I know that wasn't entirely what you were saying Frida but that's just what I thought I about it.

Although I would like to see them together I always thought it would be poetically tragic if Fry would have to give up Leela to another man and have to learn to get over her along the lines of Woody Allen's "play it again Sam." partly because I’ve experienced something similar. I was pleasantly surprised when the first movie tried to do this even if it was reversed by the twist at the end for understandable reasons.

Holy crap this is a long one. Sorry

[Reply #605 on:]

You're correct in saying that television does not accurately reflect life, nor should it.  And it's quite alright to want two characters to be together; with the couple we're talking about, it's not only a want, but a set up certainty.  Television has its own rules though.... Fry clearly explained them in When Aliens Attack.... every episode ends at the some point of where it left off.... this doesn't apply to all television, soap operas aren't like that.... but most primetime fair follows that rule, and Futurama is certainly in such a realm.  It's difficult for writers to create a new standard, and it's even harder for viewers to accept such new permanent changes.  Such as that with a relationship.... up until BWaBB, I really really hated the Amy/Kif dynamic... the comedic potential was mostly lost for me when that started, and the Wong's reactions were completely different between Love's Labours Lost in Space and Where the Buggalo Roam.  It has potential, but stuff like this is what series finales are made for.

espon, I'm not going to look for those other posts in their original entirety, but if it might be of help, I'll try and sum them up with brevity.  You've already hit the biggest nail on the head.  A lot of us waited a very long time for the series to come back, and unfortunately we set up very high expectations.  The movies, especially BBS in particular, tended to detract from what was already established in the series.... Fry's time travel for example, ruined the emotional impact of episodes such as Luck of the Fryish, and Jurrasic Bark.  The biggest complaint concerning our discussion of Fry/Leela concerns Leela's attitude in BBS.  Nothing acknowledges anything remote of the way The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings ended.... she was very quick to not pay any attention to Fry the second a new person arrived, in spite of the fact that Fry has shown himself to love her beyond the means of most people.

Also, don't worry about long posts... that's what this thread is for.

I'll second all the stuff about the reset with the movies... that's clearly what the writers have intended.

[Reply #606 on:]

Welcome if you are new, espon

Although I would like to see them together I always thought it would be poetically tragic if Fry would have to give up Leela to another man and have to learn to get over her along the lines of Woody Allen's "play it again Sam."

Or like almost any role Woody cast himself in that is a great point though, I like the thought.
And yea, that is not at all a long post by PEEL standards.

[Reply #607 on:]

I once posted an entire Book from the Bible.  It got me banned too.

[Reply #608 on:]

You should have posted 3 john. It's short.

[Reply #609 on:]

And yea, that is not at all a long post by PEEL standards.

That's nothing you should have seen Xanfor's review of BBS/story a few months ago. That was a long one! Impressive though.

[Reply #610 on:]

That's nothing you should have seen Xanfor's review of BBS/story a few months ago. That was a long one! Impressive though.

I can imagine: in my short time here I have been quite impressed by Xanfor's long and amazingly focused/coherent posts
*insert snappy comeback here*

[Reply #611 on:]

Well thank you winna. That’s for the most part what I was looking for. The way you calmly described the complaints made a lot more sense than some of the more venom filled "worst episode ever" type comments. It’s just what people were saying about it was really starting to annoy the hell out of me since I actually liked it. Maybe you didn't care for it or thought it was kinda mediocre but hate?

I still maintain it was a pretty good movie.  The reset button and the time continuum problems did frustrate and annoy me but they were more than easy enough for me to ignore once the story got going. If it really starts to bug me I come up with my own explanation like "maybe Fry and Leela drifted apart during the however many years Planet Express was out of business"

the more I think about it the more the high expectations thing makes sense. I can see how they could get really built up after the last episode over the course of years. Like I said though I’m part of the newer generation of fans. It’s hard to believe I barely knew what Futurama was six months ago.

Oh and thanks for the greeting and the reassurance on the long post. I was going to ask frisco if he thought I was rambling that time but I guess not.

(well this one's not too long)

[Reply #612 on:]

A lot of the venom filled hatred, especially in this board (human resource department), is directed at how the characters hae presented themselves over the years.  With Fry & Leela, Leela seems to be growing more ignorant of Fry and more insensitive to his feelings; this really strikes a button inside some people.  Fry seemed to be more than ever trying to fulfill the person he loved's every whim despite not realizing that she was never going to go for him; then in the second movie, all of the sudden neither of them care about eachother again (despite Leela almost marrying Fry's time duplicate) and then Fry goes off the deep end and tries to kill himself after another failed relationship.  In the first movie things seemed really jerky and we didn't even get to see Scruffy.  It was hard to adapt back to the... oh sh*t, we've got new Futurama... 

All in all and everything equal, I don't hate the movies.  After having watched them a few times, I'm going to go with, they're probably B's hovering somewhere around Futurama's average point.  Part of this is probably due to the fact that the format changed: 22 minute long show -> feature length film.  Writers needed to fill everything out a bit more and the stories seemed to drag on at certain points.  Obviously there's the canon type stuff I stated earlier, and then the stuff that didn't feel like it made any particular sense: nibblonians giving up after being hit with chairs, people being scammed so much in the first place (decent joke, not so great plot point in my opinion), reinvented theme being overly used, Hermes losing his body, the League of Robots not being made of cooler robots, Kif's parents being made out of bees (maybe that was alright), the whole universe deciding on whether to date Yivo at Nixon's table hearings, some other stuff maybe....  They were decent though, and pretty good work; I'll learn to love them for what they were in due time.

[Reply #613 on:]

I think in the fourth season they realized the show was ending so they sped up the fry/leela relationship. then when the movies were greenlit they wanted to reset the sexual tension so they could do at least one more story on their relationship between 1 and 4. (i think i already said most of this but...) i do agree that the "swooning and eventual rejection" formula is getting redundant. pretaining to what was being talked about either on the last page or a different thread entirley i have at this moment dicided that it would proably be good idea for them to get together after/during #4 because the sexual tension thing seems to be running out of steam.

thats why they dropped the Fry/Leela thing n beast and probably will in Bender's Game. if they use it too much it will start to get old fast.

as far as the weird plot points i think when choosing between something that makes sense and something that's funny they will usually go for the joke. (i think the League of Robots robots were supposed to lame. or mabye im missing your point when you say "cooler robots".)

i do agree with what you said about everyone dating yivo. i didn't like the last act of "Beast" just because of how much it freaked me out. it was so weird to see eveyrone fall in love with david cross in tentacle form. at first i didn't like the movie but eventually  i got over the fourth act and was able to enjoy the other three, which i really liked.

i know i said alot of this elsewhere so i'm sorry if i'm being redundant.
(im also sorry for apologizing so much. my gf hits me for this. on this posts its sort of a liability thing. i've said sorry in advance incase someone has a problem. it just makes me feel better.)
one more: im sorry if this looks like im attacking you winna. im just responding to what you have to say. im not trying to be offensive.
(i have a feeling im going to get more hell for the "sorry"'s than anything. )

[Reply #614 on:]

Don't worry.  I'm not easily offended... really by anything, and you'd have to be in a lot deeper territory for me to assume you were attacking me.  Also... you're a ninja... it's like 2:49 in the am here right now.

Yeah, a lot of things were sped up during the fourth production season because of the weight over their heads; it does seem a little unfortunate, but it'll be alright.

I actually couldn't think of a lot of things that bugged me about BWaBB, so I started stretching... the joke about them being lame was cool.... but they just recycled robots they'd already had on the series.... sure Calculon would totally be in a secret League of Robots, but I expected more original stuff..... that really didn't tear the movie for me though....  Also, I didn't have a problem with everybody falling in love with the tentacle... good spoof type thing parodyesque.... it was a little rushed, probably because they were running out of time... No, I just had a problem with the universe having meetings in Nixon's briefing rooms about it.... for some reason or another.  Now that I think about it, I should have grabbed at other things.... like how Bender attacked Yivo and that heart fadeout at the end.... that fadeout was cheap and gimmicky..... it worked for Put Your Head on My Shoulders, but not one of the movies.  I'd fall in love with david cross in tentacle other dimensional being form though... probably.

I'm all up for trading reason in a cartoon show for comedy.... but some things go beyond that realm for me....  the oldest living race in the universe being subdued by 3 nudist aliens with foldup chairs without further explanation goes beyond my pretend factor.  The alien scammers would probably have worked better as the plot for a single episode.... hmmm

[Reply #615 on:]

its 1:00 where i am and i just don't want to wake up to work tomorrow. there isn't much better to do on the internet. especially this late at night.

even though i do think they're really cheesy i like how they always have some kinda twist with the heart fade outs. (such as someone being strangled.)

i just got weirded out by the whole tentecle relationship. characters like Lrrr(sp?) and nixon discussing their multiple person relationship with yivo in the confrence room just didn't seem to sit well with me even if it was funny. i was also watching it with my 14 year old younger brother who likes the show but isn't as into it as i am. although he did yell at the screen when fry and leela didn't get married in the last episode.

i thought i had something else but by now i can't remember. oh well. im too tired to spell check as well so sorry if there's alot of errors. (damn it im doing it again)

[Reply #616 on:]

I believe we're all pretty fluent at minor spelling errors.  At least you don't use chatspeak, you punctuate your sentences, and you split your ideas into paragraphical form.  That's actually worse than long posts; long posts that don't have any breaks.  Sometimes I like to read things from the bottom up.

Also, lol at your brother for getting angry about Fry & Leela not getting married.

Like I said... I think the heart fade out in the movie was more than a bit cheesy...  I preferred how they ended the first movie with a tie-in to the next one, that sort of thing is the bees' knees.

[Reply #617 on:]

At least you don't use chatspeak, you punctuate your sentences, and you split your ideas into paragraphical form. 

Agreed, that is one of my pet peeves. I can't stand looking at posts that just run together and look as though they were written by a 5-year old or a monkey.

I think in the fourth season they realized the show was ending so they sped up the fry/leela relationship[....] the sexual tension thing seems to be running out of steam.

Agreed, a lot of discussion has been had about the difficulty walking the line between too much and too little 'ship. Although I love a lot of 4th and 5th season episodes, the first season seemed to have it balanced the best: interesting and funny adventures that also brought a little tension but weren't the focal point of the episode.
Also, are you really a ninja? 'cause that would be sweet...

[Reply #618 on:]

Agreed, a lot of discussion has been had about the difficulty walking the line between too much and too little 'ship. Although I love a lot of 4th and 5th season episodes, the first season seemed to have it balanced the best: interesting and funny adventures that also brought a little tension but weren't the focal point of the episode.

I completely agree with AL here. The first and early second seasons definitly had the best shippy scenes (excluding The Sting). It just seemed more natural becuase they were usually spur of the moment things. Leela also acted a lot more positivly before Fry started to actively persue her.

[Reply #619 on:]

Then there's me.  The DVDs have done very little for me - from being downright contemptuous of BBS to tolerating BWABBs, I expected much, much better.

I was expecting The Wrath of Kahn and got The Final Frontier and Nemesis instead.

The DVD's are totally bereft of the special-ness that made Futurama great - the main characters have become caricatures of themselves - Leela the Violent Ice Queen and Fry, the Emo Retard.  God, how unlikable both have become.

I'm so vehement in my disgust for the crap shoveled to us that I've even scare Frida Waterfall away when I post.  We're the fans.  We're the ones who bought the series back from the dead by religiously watching the reruns on Adult Swim and by buying the DVDs of the seasons.  We deserve better than Bender's Big Steaming Pile of Crap.

As far as "The Ship" goes, Leela and Fry can kill each other in a Claw Plaque for all I care.  Both are so damned unlikable now, I've watched both BBS and BWABB once.  I have no desire to see any more of Emo Retard Fry and Leela, the Self-Centered, Cold-Hearted Witch.

The DVDs are poorly written, the characters are off by light-years and some of the "adult" humor doesn't fly.  Leave the mindless toilet humor to Family Guy.

All BBS did was say "Fuck You" to Gail Bergman and FOX, then become a horrible mishmash of Groening and company saying, "We're going to do this our way, screw what the fans want."  The original script was decent, but much like a giraffe is a horse designed by a Committee, so BBS morphed into the tedious, confusing pile of crap it became.

I say this with all honesty:  If the next two DVDs aren't greatly superior, then I hope the series stays dead.  If it were to come back, then it would be the equivilant of Voyager next to DS9.

I enjoy the previous 4 seasons on DVD.  At least I have the guts to call a turd a turd.  Don't worry, my little rant won't affect the future of Futuama - FOX and Groening care about one thing and one thing alone:  MONEY.  If it makes mucho dinero, then more episodes or movies will come this way.

And if they suck, I will shout from the highest mountain top how awful they are.

That's not to say that Billy, Katey, John, Maurice, Tress, Lauren and others are to blame.  They can only make the best of what has been given to them.  The same goes for the animation - it's top-notch.  I have to state I loved the scene where Zapp seduced Amy.  It was totally sleazy, reprehensible and disgusting, just the way Zapp like it.  How the writers managed to capture the essence of Zapp but be so off with the main characters (Leela and Fry) is beyond me.

Ralph "The Truth" Snart

[Reply #620 on:]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the creative force behind the show actually cares a little bit more than just the money; money is clearly a huge factor in all matters, but they seemed to actually want to put something good together for its own sake when they started the show.

I also don't think the movies suck super huge horsecockles.... they're not the best futurama I've ever had, but they were trying to make something to attract new viewers, as well as, appease older fans.... they hadn't worked on the show in at least 4 years, and they were switching formats going with a dvd release....  Really that's my biggest problem, had they went and made a new season, I think a lot of these issues wouldn't have come up; I said that several years ago too, and I still stand by it.

I don't think I ever read the original script for BBS.  You got a link to something like that so that others may make comparisons? 

Futurama also covers a large range of different things.... the writing isn't the only aspect.... there's a lot of talented people animating all this stuff out, and both movies look fantastic.... There are also the voice actors, who are just spot on and masters of the craft they perform.  I wasn't too happy with the remix being used so frequently in BBS, but the show also has fantastic music...  and even if it was about the writing... it wouldn't be just about the 'shipping... Futurama barely fits into any category -> animated, scifi, action, adventure, comedy, drama, sitcom show about the future???  I liked BWaBB better than BBS, and I think they addressed issues a lot of people had with the first movie.... I see this trend continuing, and if Futurama lives on, I could only wish that it does so whilst retaining its quality.

I think you're a little harsh on the movies, but you haven't just made stuff up.  To be honest, I appreciate the hard criticisms... hopefully someone reads them and takes better care of the show for its sake and for the fans.

Lastly, I agreed with your comment about the series staying dead a long time ago.  It probably wouldn't end all on its own accord; there's a strong possibility it would keep going until it lost anything remote of what made it a great show in the first place.  Now, it doesn't matter so much to me.  I got a lot out of that show... and a good portion of it didn't even have to deal with the show directly, so I'll be happy regardless of what the future of Futurama is.

[Reply #621 on:]

I don't think I ever read the original script for BBS.  You got a link to something like that so that others may make comparisons? 
 

Frida posted a synopsis of the original script earlier this year.  If she sees this post, I hope she'll link us to the post that I'm speaking about.

[Reply #622 on:]

It's very possible they screwed with the script too much.... but I don't think they'd do that to fuck over the fans... I think they did that in an attempt to improve what they have.... sometimes, things are better left alone after a certain point.

I don't argue with you just to say No Ralph, You're Wrong.  I argue with you because you hold an opinion... it's not truth, it's not fact.... it's an opinion.... and a valid one that many of us share.  Some people enjoyed the movies though, and not all of the qualities in the movies were bad.  Most of us can agree that there were portions of them we didn't like, because there were.... but I don't see how judging a whole piece based only on some of its flaws is reasonable. 

I would like for you to continue to be as loudly critical of the series as you are... especially if it bothers you.  I think the people who work on the show do look for feedback occassionally, and they are willing to make changes for the best interest of the show.  Just remember that you have an opinion though... it would be impossible for the cast & crew to 100% please everybody 100% of the time.  I do enjoy reading people's analyses of the show from time to time.

I kind of remember the post you're talking about too... it's kind of been awhile though..... maybe I'll traul for it later.

[Reply #623 on:]

are we talking about the script in the bonus features?

[Reply #624 on:]

are we talking about the script in the bonus features?

Yes, I think that what she was referencing.  I haven't bothered with the bonus features of either of the new DVDs.

[Reply #625 on:]

I don't think I ever read the original script for BBS.  You got a link to something like that so that others may make comparisons? 
 

Frida posted a synopsis of the original script earlier this year.  If she sees this post, I hope she'll link us to the post that I'm speaking about.

I did?

Sorry if I haven't been on much, I've been incredibly busy with that less-important thing called life. I'll read your posts over tomorrow (looks like we got quite an argument going here).

As far as a summary goes, I have mentioned things here and there about the original script compared to the final product, but never a full-blown synopsis.

P.S.:

I'm so vehement in my disgust for the crap shoveled to us that I've even scare Frida Waterfall away when I post.

Is that supposed to be an insult or a compliment?

[Reply #626 on:]

I believe it's complimenting your resiliant reverance for the show whilst simultaneously highly reinforcing the vehemence of his disgust.

[Reply #627 on:]

Am I contradicting myself?

[Reply #628 on:]

Is that supposed to be an insult or a compliment?

I only insult HJS, Ribbons, Jeremy and Lampy.  So no, it's not an insult.

But the last i heard from you via e-mail was over a month ago when I stated that I wishe the series had stayed dead.  I figured that scared you and you're going to give me a w-i-d-e berth.

[Reply #629 on:]

Maybe you're talking about a different version of the script because the one I read definitely seemed worse than the finished product. There really weren’t too many big differences from what I can remember. I think there was a crappy explanation to the time travel that would have only convoluted an already confusing plot and a slightly different yet much worse ending where nudar lives. oh and it wasn't worse specifically because he lived but just the way the scene was played out. it was very clunky and seemed like it was just written out with the intention of correcting it later.

Maybe I have to read it again but that’s what I remember and it definitely would not have made the movie better.

As far as what Ralph Snart said about the movie I still feel like everyone who hates it that much is overreacting but that's your opinion and I’ve already made my points on the matter. I can't make you enjoy the movie.

[Reply #630 on:]

You can add me to your insult list too Ralph, if you want.

espon... you seem like a reasonable minded guy espon.  Hope you enjoy your stay at PEEL.

[Reply #631 on:]

There seems to be a good amount of variance in opinions about the movies. Maybe some people who vehemently claim to "hate" them might be somewhat overreacting, but in general I've read far more apologistic summations of them, rather than outright hate. Understandably, most people seem invested in trying to scrounge up some positive things to say about them. I've read reviews/analyses on at least 4 different sites and I think I've only seen 1 or 2 unabashedly slamming them.

The DVDs have done very little for me - from being downright contemptuous of BBS to tolerating BWABBs, I expected much, much better.

...

The DVD's are totally bereft of the special-ness that made Futurama great - the main characters have become caricatures of themselves...

...

The DVDs are poorly written, the characters are off by light-years and some of the "adult" humor doesn't fly. 

As for me, I've said several times and I probably will a few more, that I feel they could have been 187% better. Both of them, though in slightly different ways. I especially agree with those particular points ^. That's pretty much the essence of it right there. I don't quite share Ralph's venom on them, more just overall disappointed I suppose, but the thing is I'm fairly pessimistic towards the next two now as well. I just don't see anymore where they want to go with these films or what their overall intention was.

[Reply #632 on:]

I can easily see where these points can be made but I just don't see it to the degree that you do. They might not have lived up to my expectations but I still had a lot of fun with both. Especially after multiple viewings for some reason. Maybe the disappointment from it not living up to my own hype wore off.

Maybe it doesn't work for some people in movie form and that’s why doesn't feel like Futurama. Once again I didn't mind although I would really love to see them get back to individual episodes. Come to think of it maybe that's why so many people don't like it. Movie format doesn't work for them.

I really don't see how they are off by "light-years." I can see the points your making but once again it seems like an overreaction. The characters can vary a fair amount between episodes especially since each one was for the most part written by a different person so I didn't really notice it too much. Once again I think the problem might have something to do with seeing it over the course of a whole movie.

I didn't think the "adult" humor was that funny ether but every comedy is going to have some missed jokes and I didn't think they were so distracting as to detract from the whole movie.

And lastly thank you winna. I really appreciate that. So far you've been what’s kept me on peel. I considered giving up a few times before and especially today after that mythbusters crap I pulled.

[Reply #633 on:]

Movie format would have worked just fine and perfectly dandy for me if it had been done right. I.e., the way the vast majority of regular episodes were. In that kind of a manner. With real humor, stellar writing and plot development, unforced bittersweet and/or funny endings, and uncontrived emotion. Not pandering to supposed "new" fans. Many, many times while watching episodes I wished that they would go on longer or be more in-depth. So it certainly wasn't the format I had a problem with. Not my words, but somebody very perceptive put it to me this way: we were discussing (in writing) an episode, it happened to be IITM though it could have been any one of two dozen others, and he lamented: "why couldn't they have just done that four times and called it a movie?"
Why indeed?

[Reply #634 on:]

well it was just a theory. you're the one who would know

[Reply #635 on:]

See... the points you bring up where the movies could have been done right.... are the same reasons I see them as not working in a movie format.

It's a lot harder to pack each moment with explosive comedy when you have to tell a single story over an extended period.... it needs a lot more linearity to it so it can be cohesive as a whole...  I don't know that the writing was that far off.... the basic plot for the first two movies was great.....  Time Travel paradox story with emotional slip, and Interdimensional love being that take control over people.... both really great idea... in a way, they'd have been much more explosive in a 22 minute setting.... then they could have split off the different ideas too... alien scammer thing could have been it's own episode... going on for an entire movie really bothered the shiggles out of me though.   

The animation was fantastic though.... I don't think you can really detract from that aspect.... but not everyone takes that into account. 

I also didn't see huge portions of the characters being off... the Leela and Lars thing was the straw that broke the camel's back..... but they just wanted to write a story where Leela loves Fry without saying it explicitly.... I don't think there was any good way to go about doing that.   If someone could explicitly point out (and maybe this isn't the right thread) how most of the characters were not in tune, I'd love to be directed toward that... 

For me, the problems with the writing were little things... and I've already explained them in depth.... I'm not a writer though, and they thought it worked better the way they did it I guess...  It's always the little things that really hold back greatness to me sometimes though... 

I've found them more enjoyable after multiple viewings though myself.... although the bad parts are all the more irritating.  Maybe I had a dream about that though.....  They're not trying to make the professor more rap related in character, are they?

[Reply #636 on:]

See... the points you bring up where the movies could have been done right.... are the same reasons I see them as not working in a movie format. [...]

Yea, that is pretty much how I see it. Show vs. movie is completely apples to oranges; I won't  pretend the movies are all I wanted, but I am happy to have them.

They're not trying to make the professor more rap related in character, are they?

Well, he is living a Thug Life...
I like how PEEL tells me it is "fetching preview" when I preview a post....

[Reply #637 on:]

Ok, why is it apples to oranges exactly?
Why could they not have done the same thing for the movies that they did for the show?
Made them in the same manner?

edit: as for what winna said about the two plots, I agree they sound like pretty good ideas; they both had a lot of unfulfilled potential. Similar to how I thought Cryonic Woman had a very good premise too.

And about the Professor: it wouldn't surprise me.

[Reply #638 on:]

well a movie is done differently. the story has to be written in a different way for one. it has to be made 90 minutes instead of 22. it has to be a lot bigger and more epic. the jokes and the story have to be kept up for the entire time and has to be edited so that it all flows together smoothly. im sure there's other things and probably better examples but it isn't as simple as "make an episode that's 90 minutes." theres more story to develop more plot to setup. im mostly guessing but im sure making an episode is a fair amount different than making a movie.

[Reply #639 on:]

Yeah... it basically boils down to you can stay more focused with a 22 minute variance length and thus pack more into each moment than you can with 90 minutes.....  too much room for filler and you need more acts... and you stretch yourself thin..

I meant other than the thug life thing in BBS about the professor... for some reason I think I had a dream at some point where we were discussing how the characters were changing..... and for some reason the professor's character was being changed to take on a more active rap lifestyle or something...... obviously this would have started with the thug life thing.... which I happened to find hilarious... but was horrified when I'd found out they were changing the professor's character completely..... I'm pretty sure now that was a dream though....