‘The Shipping News’, the Colditzer_1 Prize-winning thread by jlE. Xannie Archoulx

[Reply #320 on:]

 

Originally posted by bend_her:
^^ THANK YOU! *applause* I couldn't have said it better myself. And yet, after all Fry's done for her, she decides on a whim that Lars is the one for her. Doesn't make sense.

I know, that's what the two of us have been saying all along. 
Don't think anyone else really agrees, though. (Or they're just trying to be Lars apologists, anyway).

[Reply #321 on:]

Wow. These pages filled up fast when I was gone.
I dislike this constant talk of Fry/Leela relationships.

When is Fry going to realise that the reason for the constant problems with his relationship with Leela is because they're not right for each other.

[Reply #322 on:]

SILENCE!

Fry can't give up on Leela.

What if William Wallace had given up on Cleopatra? Then they would never have gotten married, and Cleopatra wouldn't have given birth to Joan of Arc.

Wake up, people.

[Reply #323 on:]

Deca stop hoping for Fry/Zoidberg or Leela/Zoidberg. Fry and Leela a right for eachother Leela just needs to pull her head out of her ass long enough to realize it.

I've also been trying to say all along that Leela just randomly deciding that Lars is the one for her. She only knew him for like month and suddenly he's the one?! That's always really bugged me. Fry does so much for her but get notthign in return except rejection.

[Reply #324 on:]

Leela has done that before though. Marriage to Alkazar, adopting children with cosmetic surgeon whose name I can't spell right now...
Seems to me she has a tendency to leap at romantic opportunities that seem good on the surface, which indicates some level of profound desperation on her part not to die alone. It's gotten her into strife because she frequently finds these people to be shit below their shiny facades and subsequently is hurt.

Fry has no shiny facade for her to be fooled by. But in his favor is the fact that he has no facade at all - he's just what he appears to be. She'll come to realize that the thing she was looking for was right under her nose all the time (as is often the case).
This short-sightedness on her part is symbolized by the fact that she has only one eye and is seeing only half the picture. She makes direct reference to this failing in herself in two of my stories. These two:

The Morning: (short 1500-word first-person composition) http://www.peelified.com/cgi-bin/Futurama/4-001474-1/

Blame it on the Brain: (Novel-length epic adventure) http://www.peelified.com/cgi-bin/Futurama/4-001585-1/

These are considered by David X Cohen to be canonical, and have actually supplanted the series. He told me.

Basically anything anyone ever thinks of has already been thought of by me, so you should all just give up.
No, that's harsh. Never give up. Never surrender. Believe in yourself and you can achieve anything.
*snigger*

[Reply #325 on:]

way to link to the two I've already read 
(I definitely need to read your other ones; I'm sure I'll get around to that eventually)

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Fry has no shiny facade for her to be fooled by. But in his favor is the fact that he has no facade at all - he's just what he appears to be.

Absolutely--a term I've used several times is that Fry is guileless. He's not trying to hide anything, and because of that he makes the mistakes that he does, such as bringing up Amy when he's about to get Leela in PL, but again, that's what makes him more appealing than for instance Lars.

If one wants to get into the symbolism of Leela's eye, though, then by that token one could also say that Fry was "frozen" - and that clearly doesn't work as well. Fry is obviously not emotionally frozen, in fact that would be better for Leela as well, and has very little trouble expressing his feelings. Well, not nearly as much trouble as her, anyway.

[Reply #326 on:]

I've said Fry is immature in the past, but perhaps that's not quite the right word. Inconsistent might be better. He does do wonderful things for Leela to the point where she'l;l be quite charmed by it, but then he'll go and say something stupid, or act like an idiot and you can see her shut down as all the prejudices she's built about him - with or without justification - get confirmed in her mind again. We've all done that sort of thing from time to time. The trick is learning to keep your mouth shut. Or to open it when you need to.

I think it's important to realise that any relationship is built on mutuality. That is, both sides have to change things. Placing all the burden on one individual or the other is not going to make for a healthy relationship in the long run.

</bill cosby>

[Reply #327 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
She'll come to realize that the thing she was looking for was right under her nose all the time (as is often the case).

 

Originally posted by Decapodian:
When is Fry going to realise that the reason for the constant problems with his relationship with Leela is because they're not right for each other.

You're fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun.

[Reply #328 on:]

Leela getting together with Alkazar was because she believed she'd be saving her species from extinction. With Adlai, she didn't fall head-over-heels at first sight, it was only after he did something for her that she wanted (the second eye). I can't explain the mayor's aide in similar terms.

The reason I have trouble stomaching the whole Lars thing is how quickly it developed.

 

This short-sightedness on her part is symbolized by the fact that she has only one eye and is seeing only half the picture.

Wow, that was brilliant!

 

(Fry) does do wonderful things for Leela to the point where she'l;l be quite charmed by it, but then he'll go and say something stupid, or act like an idiot and you can see her shut down as all the prejudices she's built about him - with or without justification - get confirmed in her mind again

About the only time Fry seemed to make an impact on her was Devil's Hands and Love and Rocket. Every other time, she just summarily rejected anything he did. I don't count Parasites Lost, since it wasn't really him, at least not in Leela's eye.

[Reply #329 on:]

Re: the dreaded 'm word'. 

 

I dearly hope the difficulties within the 'Ship aren't simply reduced to this.

I hope so, too. I mean, 'the m word' does have something to do with why Fry and Leela haven't become a couple yet, but it's not everything. Like Archonix said, this is about mutuality; Fry isn't the only one that has to compromise here.


------------------
Fry: He was a good man, Leela.

Leela: Yeah...you were.

- Bender's Big Score

[Reply #330 on:]

 

Originally posted by Archonix:
I've said Fry is immature in the past, but perhaps that's not quite the right word. Inconsistent might be better. He does do wonderful things for Leela to the point where she'l;l be quite charmed by it, but then he'll go and say something stupid, or act like an idiot and you can see her shut down as all the prejudices she's built about him - with or without justification - get confirmed in her mind again. We've all done that sort of thing from time to time. The trick is learning to keep your mouth shut. Or to open it when you need to.

That's exactly it; Fry's shown flashes of being 'better' than he is, but he just can't seem to keep it going. Lars is such a draw to Leela, I think, in part because he is consistent; he can impress her with acts, but also with his attitude, which is consistently considerate. Fantastic deeds only get you so far, after all.

 

I think it's important to realise that any relationship is built on mutuality. That is, both sides have to change things. Placing all the burden on one individual or the other is not going to make for a healthy relationship in the long run.

Again, right on the money. Which I think is why BBS is good for things; both see that if they do change (Fry becomes  more consistent and considerate of Leela, Leela realises that Fry can 'improve' and stops being so strict about her standards), they'll both benefit. And so will we, the fans.    

That being said, it's up to them to decide if they're willing to change. (Well, really the writers, but you get the point.    )

And Xanfor, that picture is made of total win.   


------------------
Fry: He was a good man, Leela.

Leela: Yeah...you were.

- Bender's Big Score

[Reply #331 on:]

 

Absolutely--a term I've used several times is that Fry is guileless. He's not trying to hide anything, and because of that he makes the mistakes that he does, such as bringing up Amy when he's about to get Leela in PL, but again, that's what makes him more appealing than for instance Lars.

Very well put; Fry isn't at home to guile (and isn't that good with being sneaky, either), and that is one of the things that attracts Leela - when he gets it right. 

Lars was doomed twice, then; to die, and to lose Leela. Had he lived, well, if she'd married him she definitely would've seen his tattoo, which would've brought the whole thing out into the open, and she'd leave him. If not, well, they're still not together.

Honesty is the best policy after all, it seems. 

[Reply #332 on:]

 

Originally posted by km73:
Oh I know DXC was talking to JN...(Now I would like to know where JN is)

News from TLZ is that he had a busy Xmas (mostly because of the arrival of twins!). He sends his apologies, but says he's started writing again.

[Reply #333 on:]

 

Originally posted by bend_her:
Wow, that was brilliant!

Of course it was. I said it.   

[Reply #334 on:]

   

Originally posted by bend_her:
With Adlai, she didn't fall head-over-heels at first sight, it was only after he did something for her that she wanted (the second eye). I can't explain the mayor's aide in similar terms.

The reason I have trouble stomaching the whole Lars thing is how quickly it developed.

Leela actually liked Adilai before the operation like 15 years before. But it was Adilai who wouldn't date her until after the sugery.

With Chaz all we know is that she met him at a charity cock fight so something nice for who ever the charity was for plus his looks and status lead to Leela's quick "Must have him." All of Leela's relationships develop fast. Well I think they develop fast. With Adilai they're only dating for like a few weeks then they want to adopt?

[Reply #335 on:]

Woah, Quadruple post! Slow the fingers down THM. Or speed them up so it all fits into one. I forget how it works.

       

Originally posted by Archonix:
I've said Fry is immature in the past, but perhaps that's not quite the right word. Inconsistent might be better. He does do wonderful things for Leela to the point where she'l;l be quite charmed by it, but then he'll go and say something stupid, or act like an idiot and you can see her shut down as all the prejudices she's built about him - with or without justification - get confirmed in her mind again. We've all done that sort of thing from time to time. The trick is learning to keep your mouth shut. Or to open it when you need to.

Once again somebody has beaten me to what I wanted to say. In the process however they save me alot of typing by just quoting them and just making small changes and additions. Horaay for laziness!

Anywho. I agree with Archonix for the most part. The maturity thing is a factor but just one of them. It's being overused because it's the only new information we've had to work with in the past four years or so. Fry can be mature and charming and whatever similar adjectives you'd like to apply but he usually ends up screwing it up. He'll say something sweet then mention Amy or make a touching gesture then start making motorcycle noises.

This kind of thing then feeds into the "Fry isn't the right person" folder of Leela's mind and contributes to the "wall" if you will. Knowing Fry, there's definatly enough to keep that part of her brain fed very well. Mature is a vague word though and doesn't have too solid a definition. I think that's one of the reasons it's used so much because it can encompase everything Fry needs to improve on. I won't bother going over those because it's most likely been done thousands of times before.

       

Originally posted by Archonix:
I think it's important to realise that any relationship is built on mutuality. That is, both sides have to change things.

Also, I agree that Leela has to change just as many things if not more than Fry does. All Fry really needs to do is learn that there is a time and place for everything. Leela on the other hand has to get past the "anti-Fry" part of her brain, realize that nobody's perfect (aka: a tall, rich, handsome senator), and learn to just laugh at stuff once and awhile. The last one she has improved in though. In the first season she has to get everything done perfecly and won't tolerate and deviation from the mission. By the fourth season she seems to have really lightened up to the point where she just dumps all the candy hearts because it's the "lazier idea". The last thing I can think of is that Leela sees it as a double or nothing situation. Fry is her only real friend and she feels safer keeping up the status quo because she thinks if she lets it go any farther she'll lose everything. She needs to get past that irrational fear as much as anything else.

They both seem to be headed toward the "middle ground" between their two personalities, which is the important thing really. We just have to give it time and three more movies and see what happens.

PS: So much for just adding on to what Archonix said.

This has been Frisco your long winded ship analizer for this eavning. Goodnight and Godspeed. As for me, I'm off to invade Poland. (Picks up his officer's cap and walks out wistling "To Much Time On My Hands" by Styx).

[Reply #336 on:]

 

Originally posted by Frisco17:
Woah, Quadruple post! Slow the fingers down THM. Or speed them up so it all fits into one. I forget how it works.

You're absolutely right! Ban THM from the thread! Erase his memory from history! Disembowel...

 

Originally posted by THM:
And Xanfor, that picture is made of total win.   

Like I was saying, leave the guy alone, Frisco! Have some respect, will ya?

Some people... 

[Reply #337 on:]

(Reads Xanfor's post) Did I miss something or did my brain just stroke off there for a second?

[Reply #338 on:]

Both Frisco.

Nice Xan. One minute your all for banning THM from this thread and disembowlment then you recive a compliment and blaming someone else for your statements. You never cease to entertain me.

[Reply #339 on:]

What does THM stand for anyway?

[Reply #340 on:]

Pointy-kun. 

[Reply #341 on:]

 

both see that if they do change (Fry becomes more consistent and considerate of Leela, Leela realises that Fry can 'improve' and stops being so strict about her standards), they'll both benefit. And so will we, the fans.

Aww... Now outside the world of after school specials, I'd put my money (FWIW) on the writers forgetting any of this happened and returning to the usual Fry-chases-Leela shtick.

 

All of Leela's relationships develop fast. Well I think they develop fast. With Adilai they're only dating for like a few weeks then they want to adopt?

OK, develop was the wrong choice of words, how about "start"? She had only met Lars for a few seconds before she started acting crazy. With everyone else, it took time.

[Reply #342 on:]

 

Originally posted by Bendersfan1221:
   All of Leela's relationships develop fast.

Traditionally they've only had half-hour episodes in which to develop, though the same excuse cannot be made for BBS.

[Reply #343 on:]

Yes it can, it's designed to slice up into 30 minute chunks for TV broadcast.

[Reply #344 on:]

Look, I am afraid to get into this whole business because some of you are a little obsessed.  The bottom line for me on the whole Fry/Leela thing is that they have been destined since SP3K to wind up together.  Why question the Lars stuff? Fry IS Lars and Lars knows that he is even if Fry doesn't.  The attraction between Fry and Leela is made known in the pilot.  Should she be questioned for falling for someone she already loves?  She may not know it's Fry inside of Lars but everything that Fry is is in him.  Trust the wise people that have ruled our lives for lo these many years, if they were on the ball enough to put Nibblers shadow in the pilot why wouldn't they have a plan for Fry and Leela too?

[Reply #345 on:]

*drapes towel over head and enters thread eerily*

 

Originally posted by bobbot:
Look, I am afraid to get into this whole business because some of you are a little obsessed.

A little? Eh-hem...

 

The bottom line for me on the whole Fry/Leela thing is that they have been destined since SP3K to wind up together. Why question the Lars stuff? Fry IS Lars and Lars knows that he is even if Fry doesn't.

Because Lars is not Fry, in the exact same way that none of us are who we were yesterday. If I met the woman of my dreams today, I would not be happy if she instead met who I was yesterday. I want her to meet who I am today. Likewise, I don't want her falling for who I will be tomorrow, either, because that would also not be me.

Many relationships come to their end because of things like this.

 

The attraction between Fry and Leela is made known in the pilot. Should she be questioned for falling for someone she already loves?

Yes. I know what you're trying to do and I'm not falling for... Whatever it is.

 

She may not know it's Fry inside of Lars but everything that Fry is is in him.  Trust the wise people that have ruled our lives for lo these many years, if they were on the ball enough to put Nibblers shadow in the pilot why wouldn't they have a plan for Fry and Leela too?

We know they have a plan! We just have no idea what it is, therefore, from the view of our speculating, it is irrelevant except from a metafictional standpoint.

*Raises arm slowly and points*

Shoumon bakkari shiteru to, boukon ga kuru zo...

[Reply #346 on:]

At the risk of sounding like quato, "we are who we are" The me I am today is the me I was yesterday.  I change, I grow, but I remain me.  The qualities that reach others are always there.  They don't evaporate from one instant to the next.  That is how people stay together for 50+ years.  The continuity of who they are combines with what they grow and become.  We change every day but we don't lose who we were, we add to it and become more complex. 
 Or, to put it another way, I am me, as you are he, as they are we, and we are all together. HEE HEE HEE, HA HA HA, HO HO HO!

[Reply #347 on:]

People stay together for 50+ years because they grow with each other. Surely we all know of the phrase 'You're not the (wo)man I married', a statement usually followed by divorce? People do grow. But as all this mucking around in time should have made evident, this makes them different with every passing day. This makes them different with every passing second. Personalities are not static phenomena. So many couples nowadays completely miss the fact that you simply cannot stay in love with the person you fell in love with. Because people change, they become different. And if they don't keep up with themselves, if they don't make an effort to keep learning about each other and know what it is they're both becoming, if they don't mutually work to keep the love alive and whole... They're eventually each gonna find themselves in the company of a complete stranger. And the relationship will fail.

All because they thought the 'qualities' that reached each other would always be there.

[Reply #348 on:]

Xan, what did that mean at the end of you last post? (The one last one before teh one I jsut responded to.) And I completly agree with you. I'm not getting into your discussion with Bobbot though. I'm too depressed my favorite cousin is in the hospital because of a car accident.       And I can't think of anything intellegent at the moment.

[Reply #349 on:]

Xanfor, look at it this way then: she fell for a man that reminded her of Fry. The fact that he is Fry is irrelevant, the qualities she fell for are the same qualities that Fry has, she just has trouble seeing them in him because of the whole familiarity thing.

[Reply #350 on:]

Sorry about your cousin, Bf. 

 

Originally posted by Xanfor:
Because Lars is not Fry...

Right, that's how I see it.

 

We know they have a plan! We just have no idea what it is, therefore, from the view of our speculating, it is irrelevant except from a metafictional standpoint.

I was going to say, the fact that the writers have a plan doesn't stop a lot of people from apparently thinking that they're just dragging it out too much, as many have said. Personally I don't mind the speculating.

[Reply #351 on:]

@Archonix: Exactly! I should hire you as my translator, I really should...

@Bendersfan1221: It's the mysterious one line of the THM. 

[Reply #352 on:]

Thanks Xan for the link. You don't need a translator people just need to read everything you say and look at all the interpertaions. But since people don't do that, that's a good idea.

Thanks km, I don't want to know how my 4 year old cousin is reacting to his 21 year old brother being in the state he's in.

[Reply #353 on:]

I originally meant a translator for reading other people's posts to me, but your idea is sounding pretty good too... 

Sorry about your cousin. Here, big hug...

[Reply #354 on:]

I know I haven't been posting as much as I should be here, but I have stuck around to take my time and skim through posts on this thread. Anyways, I still can't say much on Bender's Big Score (I don't have the time this week, but on the weekend maybe I'll finish up my thorough Bender's Big Score Review), but I feel obligated to just give my opinion out a little more.

You see, Lars was Fry, but he is not Fry. There's a difference- one's past tense, and the other's present tense. Do you understand? However, this is one statement that you can't converse. Fry will not be Lars. Ever. Lars took up the experience that our Fry could have had. He will probably never look, sound, speak, or even balance a wine glass on a fork like Lars. And we already know that.

What is really going to upset me is that Leela was underwritten. She basically fit Ralph Snart's description perfectly in the movie. And this can seriously damage the relationship permanently (unless they find a way to undo "Bender's Big Score, perhaps the universe ripping up time and space would have something to do with it). I can really only picture it being a difficult task to wrap up the relationship. If the writers choose to keep "Bender's Big Score" and Lars canon, then here's what I can expect. Leela already fell head-over-heels in love with Lars, then lost him tragically. Do you think Leela's going to settle for just anybody now? Lars set the bar for marriage candidates. And knowing that Lars was once the average Fry, the bar's going to have a special height for Fry, now that she knows that Fry can get that high. I wonder if Fry's going to go the distance. Somebody who originally started as him in late 3007 and has earned 18 years of experienced got there. Does Fry have the right patience and have the mind set to that kind of commitment? His time-paradox duplicate did, but he was convinced that there was absolutely no way he could get Leela. Does Leela want to accept Fry now? She had somebody who once was Fry before, but will she be comfortable accepting somebody else? In real life, that would be extremely hard to get over that fact. But, knowing that this is Futurama, its the future, and the entire relationship only lasted for a month (which feels like a quick fling), she could get over it. Also, does Leela have the patience to wait that long? Leela's been pretty anxious on love. And just like any other woman, she knows that her internal clock is ticking away.

On a last note, I do want to note that I am not a Leela/Lars shipper, but I am still a Fry/Leela shipper, in case if you were wondering for WikiPEELia. And, just for trivia, I do mildly support the Kirk/Spock relationship (by the way, I actually have never watched a single episode of Star Trek in my life, which is strange for a Futurama fan) and the Zapp/Michelle relationship.

[Reply #355 on:]

A difference of opinion is not a failure to understand.  We see things differently is all, nothing wrong with that.  That being said I still hold that Fry hass anything that Lars did inside him.  He isn't Lars, but Lars is him.  That means (IMHO) that Leela now knows that Fry can do it.  I think that we will see a definite advance of their relationship in the next movie. 

[Reply #356 on:]

It would be a bad thing for Leela to look at Fry and think of Lars. Not only is Fry not Lars, but it would not be a good thing to be in a relationship with somebody who reminds you of somebody else. It could lead up to the comment "You're not the (wo)man I thought you were". Leela should love Fry for Fry, and not for Lars.

[Reply #357 on:]

THIS POST NEVER EXISTED. EVEN IF I DID CLICK "QUOTE" INSTEAD OF "EDIT".

[Reply #358 on:]

[Hannibal]I love it when a plan comes together.[/Hannibal]

I also love it when everyone finally understands one another.

Now I'm bored.

edit: Frida, how can you ship Kirk/Spock even remotely if you've never seen Star Trek? That would be like Futurama spoofing Star Trek if Matt Groening never watched it. Oh, wait... I meant it's like if Matt Groening was a huge fan of Doctor Who yet it never got spoofed in Futurama. Oh wait....

[Reply #359 on:]

Xanfor? Do I understand you? Do you want us to argue more until we change our Fry/Leela ship opinions, our political views, and our religious values?

On the Kirk/Spock thing, I just love posting the slasher fanporn art. I don't really care one way or another if they get together.