Deep Down: Fry and Leela Soul Searching

[Reply #400 on:]

I once pretended to be gay to go out with this guy... got a free meal and some fine wine. Then I bashed him up and stole his money and car. It was all in good fun though.

[Reply #401 on:]

 

Originally posted by Fry_B:
Yeah... getting back to Futurama and tonight's episode (BendHer) - which I saw for the first time - I was wondering how come Bender, upon being converted into a fembot, suddenly got to have so much insight into the female gender - or was that insight rather tongue-in-cheek? Leela appeared surprised and sometimes embarrassed at BendHer's remarks so I guess he (she) got it right. Leela's reactions throughout BenHer are in fact interesting - disbelief (at Bender's latest exploit), amazement, gealousy (on BendHer's success with Calculon - hehe)

Yeah, I saw Bend Her last week for the first time (on dvd...) and I found Leela's reactions interesting. Bender being a woman kind of reminded me of him being a human though...just doing all that he could within the different frame. Maybe Leela was angry at Bender because she could she aspects of herself in him/her..or things she wanted in herself... Haha. Damn, I should have watched it tonight. It just finished 15 minutes ago. Oh well, I recorded it.

 

Any (female but not only) PEELer would care to comment on that? E.g. was BendHer on the money ? or, would you really go out with a guy just for the meal  (now I learned something new), etc ?

Well, if I woke up one day with a 'perfect' body and better hair, I might suddenly have the confidence to go out in public and...no, I doubt it.
And I don't think I'd go out with someone just because I was hungry...not unless I was homeless.

[Reply #402 on:]

Bender was doing all the things men want women to do but most have too much self-respect to oblige. What vexed Leela and Amy was how successful that lack of inhibition was for She-Bender. It almost implied that romantic success which they (Leela in particular) found so difficult to attain could be granted easily at the expense of their personal honour... and that would naturally make them angry.

[Reply #403 on:]

It'd make me angry! Lose the dignity, gain the guy. Pah, I think not, I'd rather be alone forever.

[Reply #404 on:]

I so would not go out with a guy just for a meal. Plus I don't believe it's right that the guy pays for the meal anyway. What's with that? I work, I can look after myself, I don't need taking care of. I hate that traditional 'guy pays for meal and goes to work, girls stays home to look after the kids, clean and cook' attitude. Males and females should be completely equal and females can do anything males can and vise versa (except possibly some physical strength stuff but Leela proves she can kick Fry's butt anyday).

And Bender so did not get it right and Leela and Amy were so angry because he was making females look like tramps.

[Reply #405 on:]

I always thought that the Bend Her episode was kinda creepy.

[Reply #406 on:]

Cyberphobia, re: Male/Female roles... okay, you can take away all my traditional roles... make it wrong for me to offer you my seat on the bus... make it a crime for me to hold a door open for you... make it an insult to do the gentlemanly thing and pay for a meal ... but I'd still defend your honour and take a bullet for you; because if I don't do that then there's no point for me to even exist. Women have pushed so hard to make men redundant and the butt of jokes, and that's fine if that's what you want... but we'll still be there for you when the shit hits the fan and you need somebody to get belted around the head with an iron bar on your behalf.

[Reply #407 on:]

CA, that's actually the sweetest thing I've ever heard you say. And I have no problem with those things if males want to do them except for the paying for meals one. Because that one is more about women not being able to be in the work force and affording stuff for themselves which is too traditional for these modern times.

And what you said makes sense I suppose. But I really really don't like the female should clean and cook role. I prefer to go to work and earn money. My brother keeps joking that I should be making food for him because I'm a woman.

And there is still a point for males to exist. Maybe THEY can take on some traditional female roles like cleaning and cooking. And just because women are able to go to work and look after themselves, doesn't mean men don't have a purpose.  They shouldn't need to spend their lives looking after women.

And there are just as many women jokes as men jokes, if not more. Eg. Women being bad drivers.

[Reply #408 on:]

That's not a joke, it's true.   

Haha...
I don't think a man paying for a woman's meal is supposed to infer that she's incapable of making money... most of us blokes are working for female bosses these days so I'd say it's a given that you can. It's more of an idea of chivalrous self-sacrifice that is being displayed... since it's no longer socially acceptable for us to go out and risk out lives to kill a mammoth for dinner, instead we risk our wallet. We like to feel useful, and to show that we're willing to do things for you, but not to infer that you're unable to do them for yourself. We LIKE looking out for the women, even when it's totally unnecessary - we KNOW it's unnecessary, but we want to do it anyway because we love you little buggers, even though you all hate us so much   .

No, I don't believe in the old housewife concept at all, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to hold onto the last remaining vestiges of chivalry in a world where it seems to count for very little... I think it's important. Blokes are meant to protect the women; not in a way that makes the women fragile or weak, that's not what I mean, but... We just want to be there for you, that's just natural, the Earth Goddess/Horned God relationship. But more and more these days we aren't allowed to be, so we lose our identity.

We don't really want 'female' roles the same as women seem to want 'male' roles, heh heh... there are obvious reasons for that... Although I live alone and do my own cooking and cleaning (not very well or very frequently   , but still... I have a career as well).

[Reply #409 on:]

 

Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
I prefer to go to work and earn money.
...
And there is still a point for males to exist. Maybe THEY can take on some traditional female roles like cleaning and cooking.

Yeah. Problem these days with both men and women working is that, if they have children, the kids don't get looked after properly. They should work on alternating days.
But, if they don't have kids, they can do whatever the hell they want.   

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Blokes are meant to protect the women; not in a way that makes the women fragile or weak, that's not what I mean, but... We just want to be there for you, that's just natural, the Earth Goddess/Horned God relationship. But more and more these days we aren't allowed to be, so we lose our identity.

What about when women want to defend a man's honour or whatever? Isn't there something about men losing their feeling of manliness over that? Or is that just a stereotypical thing as well?

[Reply #410 on:]

Give me back my manliness you thief!

[Reply #411 on:]

Here you go...sorry its all battered and withered...

[Reply #412 on:]

Just the way I left it.

[Reply #413 on:]

What manliness? Who are you? What is this? Am I on the right channel?

Well, I watched Bend Her again today...that's actually a really amusing episode. I wasn't expecting it to be originally. Maybe he was right about the lipstick. Poor Fry seemed frightened by female Bender...so if Leela acted like that wouldn't Fry be less interested in her? 

"My breasts are keeping me awake at night anyway."

[Reply #414 on:]

Fry was probably more scared because it was his blokey buddy Bender acting that way.
Haha, I like the look in Fry's face when Benderette drags him off to help pick out clothes. I know that look well.

"All hail Robonia, a land I didn't make up!"

[Reply #415 on:]

Yeah. But still, whenever I see girls at the shops who've dragged their boyfriends along, the girls are always checking out all the clothes and the boyfriends stand around looking extremely bored. Sure, if the change rooms were more open they might enjoy it, but y'know...
Haha. And women think men are insensitive. Wait, which side am I on?

[Reply #416 on:]

You're on both sides of every argument. You're the adjudicator.

[Reply #417 on:]

Hmm.. society shapes men and women in different ways; this can be more important than it seems. You say: women can do any man's job. Agreed. But do they want to?. As I mentioned before, the number of female in engineering and IT is higher in Eastern Europe and some Middle East areas than in Western society. Much noise is made that they could do it, yet they do not; being single female lawyer is more appealing for example.

Anyway, I believe BedHer touched on an aspect that we all thought of (or will do so given enough time): what if we could change over to the other side, if only for just a few days ? What if we could experience what the other gender experiences - physically and emotionally? E.g. I may ask myself 'What does sex feel like for women? Climaxes seem to be increasingly intense and longer lasting, and... well you get the idea. Theory is all Ok, but how it would be to feel it? How about that crazy period period  How about letting your body or emotions govern your life ? - OK, OK just kidding  , no, no, ouch, hey - that hurts, stop bashing!

Female reactions to a man having a sex change was the other main aspect of BendHer. I have heard of several examples where female acceptance of former men that had a sex change was low or inexistent (the most obvious: the females objected to the fresh woman use the ladies' toilet). So Leela and Amy's reactions could have had something to do with that. As for Fry, of course he was freaked out but also dissapointed that Bender 'left' him for Calculon 

So, yeah.. I believe that these two aspects were the main drivers of 'BendHer'. Very interesting, Futurama is supposed to be 'light entertainment' only ... or is it ?

I wonder if there is a place containing an analysis of all Futurama episodes and the uissues thay tackle. it could be interesting reading. Maybe we could create one!

[Reply #418 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
You're on both sides of every argument. You're the adjudicator.

Yeah. I don't know what's with that. I guess because seeing how there always does seem to be more than one way to approach a situation, there's no point sticking to just one, because parts of all of them can be 'correct'...
Also, I hate clothes shopping as a girl so I can see why males might find it infuriating when they're not even getting to see anything. Obviously in my mind, all men want to do is watch women undress.  But seriously, are they interested in the clothes at all? 
"I wouldn't talk about taste if I was wearing a lime-green tank top!"

 

Originally posted by Fry_B:
Theory is all Ok, but how it would be to feel it? How about that crazy period period  How about letting your body or emotions govern your life ? - OK, OK just kidding , no, no, ouch, hey - that hurts, stop bashing!

Haha. No, really, you don't want to know how that crazy period period feels. Trust me. Of course, it'd be nice to give men that horror, but I don't think I'm that mean. 

Changing sex would be interesting though. Makes me think of the movie Dating the Enemy, which explores that issue rather amusingly.

[Reply #419 on:]

 

Originally posted by Fry_B:
 E.g. I may ask myself 'What does sex feel like for women? Climaxes seem to be increasingly intense and longer lasting, and...

Oh God, eeew! But you don't want the cock do you? Surely you'd have to be a lesbian if you switched genders, right?

 

well you get the idea. Theory is all Ok, but how it would be to feel it? How about that crazy period period    How about letting your body or emotions govern your life ?

Why... WHY would we want to experience that?

 

Very interesting, Futurama is supposed to be 'light entertainment' only ... or is it ?

Depends on how you want to watch it... and that is, I feel, a sign of a great TV show; that you can enjoy it on many different levels.

[Reply #420 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
That's not a joke, it's true.   

Haha...
I don't think a man paying for a woman's meal is supposed to infer that she's incapable of making money... most of us blokes are working for female bosses these days so I'd say it's a given that you can. It's more of an idea of chivalrous self-sacrifice that is being displayed... since it's no longer socially acceptable for us to go out and risk out lives to kill a mammoth for dinner, instead we risk our wallet. We like to feel useful, and to show that we're willing to do things for you, but not to infer that you're unable to do them for yourself. We LIKE looking out for the women, even when it's totally unnecessary - we KNOW it's unnecessary, but we want to do it anyway because we love you little buggers, even though you all hate us so much    .

No, I don't believe in the old housewife concept at all, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to hold onto the last remaining vestiges of chivalry in a world where it seems to count for very little... I think it's important. Blokes are meant to protect the women; not in a way that makes the women fragile or weak, that's not what I mean, but... We just want to be there for you, that's just natural, the Earth Goddess/Horned God relationship. But more and more these days we aren't allowed to be, so we lose our identity.

We don't really want 'female' roles the same as women seem to want 'male' roles, heh heh... there are obvious reasons for that... Although I live alone and do my own cooking and cleaning (not very well or very frequently    , but still... I have a career as well).

I may never understand the numerous sides of Coldangel. The appearance he puts across of a tough, sadistic (maybe), never-give-an-inch typical male completely contradicts his other sensitive, sweet, helpful, even romantic side. I'm so confused.

 

Originally posted by Fry_B:
How about that crazy period period   

It's seriously not worth experiencing. You'll be happier without it. It's just like really bad stomach pains mixed with intensified negative emotions (such as getting upset over nothing important and getting angry really quickly) added to the annoyance of bathroom trips every hour or two and the fear that you're sanitary pad might leak, leading to mega embarrassment.

I'm under-exaggerating.

[Reply #421 on:]

 

I may never understand the numerous sides of Coldangel. The appearance he puts across of a tough, sadistic (maybe), never-give-an-inch typical male completely contradicts his other sensitive, sweet, helpful, even romantic side. I'm so confused.

Coldangel is all things to all people. Just like the God he seeks to usurp.
Actually I'm anything but 'typical', though I don't think any of us here could be called that... Heaven forbid!
One can be rough around the edges and still have a 'tender' side. That's the best of both worlds really... means I can engage in deep spiritual discussion AND punch arseholes in the mouth... occasionally at the same time. Handy.   

I've known a few girls well enough to agree that yes, periods aren't something I want to know about, and I've got a lot of respect for you ladies putting up with that nasty permutation of biology. I cringe in sympathy.   

EDIT: And I just realized my new signiture couldn't have come at a worse time...
------------------
The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.

[Reply #422 on:]

 

Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
I'm under-exaggerating.

*nods in understandingment*


So, just watched the first 4 eps of Futurama for no other reason than I felt like it, and I thought this was interesting.

Did she really quit that job?   

[Reply #423 on:]

Ahhhh... I see where you're coming from.
But er... my friend doesn't. Explain to him.

[Reply #424 on:]

Haha.
She's still assigning Fry's fate...maybe.

[Reply #425 on:]

That's what I thought.
Maybe she *IS* his fate.

[Reply #426 on:]

Yes. Well done.

[Reply #427 on:]

Ooooh now I get it!

[Reply #428 on:]

Mazzie's like a Dead Sea Scroll sometimes. Hard to decypher, but very insightful when translated.

[Reply #429 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
I've known a few girls well enough to agree that yes, periods aren't something I want to know about, and I've got a lot of respect for you ladies putting up with that nasty permutation of biology. I cringe in sympathy.     

EDIT: And I just realized my new signiture couldn't have come at a worse time...

Congratulations, you just made me laugh my ass clean off! 

Oh, uh, and my contribution to the thread...

Anyone ever watched 8 Simple Rules?

That is actually not a rhetorical question, I would like an answer.

[Reply #430 on:]

Is that the show where contestants have to kill the other contestants? Or is that something I dreampt?

[Reply #431 on:]

Close, it's a family sitcom.

In said sitcom, the father character dies. Despite such a major change, the programme still holds its own. See what I'm getting at?

"But Jim!" I hear you cry. "Our nice clean Futurama is no dirty, dirty sitcom!"

And that is when I bring out the truncheon of truth and the two by four of realisation and smack you around for a while until I get bored.

Are you seriously telling me the characters are the same in episode seventy-whatsit as they are in episode one?

Futurama could undergo a huge upheaval and come out grinning like Bill Clinton in a whorehouse.

EDIT: Interestingly, Katey Segal is in 8 Simple Rules as well! 

[Reply #432 on:]

Oh yeah, EarthWormJim, you're preaching to the converted there.

Who do you wanna kill? Just make sure it's not Scuffy, because the show REALLY couldn't survive without him, no matter what you did.

[Reply #433 on:]

Kiff. It'll always be Kiff.

...

Oh damn! I mean, no! No! you missed my point entirely! No killing. And that's final.

except maybe Kiff.[/metrosexual]Damn, I mean:

[Reply #434 on:]

I could live without Kif.

[Reply #435 on:]

Ugh, he pisses me off no end.

Fortunately, I've been watching CSI, Ghost Whisperer and playing through F.E.A.R., so I'm quite creative when it comes to thinking up violent deaths for him.

[Reply #436 on:]

He was quite dry and sarcastic in Love's Labours when he first appeared, more put-upon than submissive, but was portrayed as much more of a pussy in all episodes thereafter.

[Reply #437 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Oh God, eeew! But you don't want the cock do you? Surely you'd have to be a lesbian if you switched genders, right?

Coldangel, you amaze me. I thought as a God wannabe you would be able to (mentally at least, hehe) switch over. On the other hand sometimes (in my opinion) you do appear to be a bit  ... shall we say - homophobic? (I used 'sometimes', 'may' and 'in my opinion')
Anyway, regardless of sexual preferences and/or prejudices here... the examples I gave were about exploring the unknown - it may be good, bad or horrible but that's the risk of bloody exploring the unknown. Just like you take the risk of being frozen for 1000 years and wake up... dead or worse.

And ... let me laugh in advance at this...(hahaha...ok, I'm good now) believe me, if you became a real woman, you would definitely WANT ALL the aspects of womanhood (a word?) including and especially the cock!  Else why the hell would one switch over? Just to be able to dress like a woman?  (don't need a switch for that) I'm not sure if Bender really changed into a real woman since he did all that men wanted women to do - so probably not. I personally meant totally changing into a woman for a few days. Is that so repulsive to you? Fine. Not repulsive ? Also fine. It was a mental exercise - fascinating huh (for me, or nauseating for you, whatever)

 

Why... WHY would we want to experience that?

Because it's part of the human species. (women were still human last time I checked, not just cute puppets to idolize & play with) You talk about chivalry (you remind me of Saddam when invaded by our friends, hehe), that is nice - really - and romantic, but how come you cannot understand why someone would want to experience things. A God should be able to understand everything 
Bad or good, it's part of exploring the human universe. Quite simple. We may love it and/or be grossed out, but that would also be part of it. Finally, it's all hypothetical - fortunately (??)

[Reply #438 on:]

I wasn't trying to be offensive. I just don't want to have a cock in me or bleed from my genitals.
I wouldn't want to eat someone's poo either. There are some things I'm more than happy to go to my grave wondering about.
If I want an adventure I'll climb a mountain or shoot a New Zealander or something.

PS - I'm more your kind of violent Norse God (Odin/Thor, et al) rather than the overtly sensitive Christian one with His white robes and hand lotion...

[Reply #439 on:]

 

Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
 It's seriously not worth experiencing. You'll be happier without it.

[Details ommitted  ]

I'm under-exaggerating.

Why, of course. I understand there are unpleasant aspects, and I believe you (Gawd WHAT are we talking about in the Deep Down thread ??). It was about the concept of temporarily crossing slash switching over to the other side and experience ALL the aspects...Let's not get caught up in the sanitary details ...It's natural and it's part of being a woman... and if it don't happen when it should... whoa... THEN that would be an experience for a cross-overee (another new word for you)...  -was that in an Arnold Schwarzy movie?
CyberPhob, I'm sure you would find fascinating but also engrossing (for you) aspects in being a man for a few days. It was about the what if it were possible, and of how much of your own personality would you give up temporarily to fully experience the switch.

I would've also been interested in Shiny's reaction - (shouting) Shinyyyy - would you want to be a man for a whiiiile !!! - no, I'm not kidding !! )