Nixon evil, why?

[on:]

Okey might seem like a weird topic but i was wondering why is it Nixon is portrayed as so evil in shows like Futurama. Alright he could of handled the whole Watergate better but a part from that his time as President was pretty good, I had to study it in history at GCSE and he got America out of Vietnam, opened relations with China and one his second term by a land slide victory. It might be because I am not American and probably do not understand the effect he had. But to become a pycopath in a giant robotic suit is that not takin git to far.

[Reply #1 on:]

The man's EVIL!  EEEEEEEEVIL!

[Reply #2 on:]

I'm not american either. But as far as I know he originally pushed forward the vietnam conflict, ordered the police to hit and (kill) demonstrating hippies and students and hmm... Someone american please help me continue (or correct me  )

[Reply #3 on:]

If I remember back to my GCSE's it was military genrals who pushed the war forward on LBJ and I think he Said "Win me the election and you can have your war." now this might be just a rumor but LBJ was not that great with his policies.

[Reply #4 on:]

I'm not American either, so I have no strong feelings about Nixon whatsoever.

But sitting in a jar for 1000+ years is bound to drive some poor chap crazy from time to time. He even admitted it himself in "A Head in the Polls": "...I've become bitter and, lets face it, crazy over the years."

[Reply #5 on:]

Nixon evil, duh!

[Reply #6 on:]

There's that whole "Abuse of power" and "Subversion of an election" thing, too.

Plus, the guy just looks and sounds creepy.

[Reply #7 on:]

I remember reading something (an interview) with Matt and they asked about him and Nixon... I think he hates the guy and thinks he deserves all the ridicule he can get...
:Kevin wanders off in search of the phantom article:

<RandomNixonQuote>
I'd no sooner give it up than my little cocker spaniel dog checkers!
Ruff!
SHUT UP DAMN YOU!

[Reply #8 on:]

Nixon was just not a popular guy after the Watergate thing. Why is it that we expect our leaders to be, to use a term, not human? We expect WAY too much. I mean look at Clinton. How many people haven't cheated on their spouses? (Not saying it's right) He gets impeached for it and he was so near the end of his term anyway. We expect them not to lie, cheat, steal, or do anything immoral. (Again, not saying it's right) It happens all the time in this world so why are our leaders supposed to be the ultimate good? Bad and good are relative terms. There are shades of gray.

Well, that's enough ranting for now. There is one thing I always like to say. Voting is choosing the lesser of two evils, but evil is still evil. Either way, you still get screwed.    

[Reply #9 on:]

"Man, you women's libbers really know how to party!"

I think all presidents have done some devious deed, don't you agree?

[Reply #10 on:]

i agree.
although some more and some less. and nixon definately belongs to the first category.
but then again, this is all the principle of the relative sh!t: a small hump of sh!t may be better than big one, but it's still sh!t.

[Reply #11 on:]

I read in an interview that MattG never really like Nixon and just finds it funny to make fun of him even though he's dead. I can't remember the exact interview but I remember him stating so. I swear.

[Reply #12 on:]

The problem with Nixon was the fact that he was too paranoid, he was the personification of all that we hate in politicians, he didn't trust anyone, was the master at supporting things that were wrong the second public interest waned (McCarthy era) He had a "plan" to end Vietnam, he used this to get elected and didn’t tell the public, and Taped every conversation he had and would not turn them into the courts, thus he thought he was above the law.

[Reply #13 on:]

Welcome Musca! You're blending in already with that first post!

[Reply #14 on:]

 

Originally posted by Allen:
...Why is it that we expect our leaders to be, to use a term, not human? We expect WAY too much. I mean look at Clinton. How many people haven't cheated on their spouses? (Not saying it's right) He gets impeached for it and he was so near the end of his term anyway. We expect them not to lie, cheat, steal, or do anything immoral. (Again, not saying it's right) It happens all the time in this world so why are our leaders supposed to be the ultimate good? Bad and good are relative terms. There are shades of gray...

We hold politicians to a higher standard than "regular" people like you and me because we have have selected these people to lead us.  Voters should hold themselves to the same standard that they use for politicians, but as you hinted at, everybody is morally failing.  They make our rules, and we have to live with that.  If we relax our standards (and believe me, we have) and expect our public officials to steal, cheat, and lie, then what's the point in government at all?  For the same reason we don't allow felons to vote we must always vote for the candidate with the highest scruples (as a secondary reason, usually).  What if we elected a felon as President?  The President has the power to release every convict in the prison system.  A President (or any politician) with corrupted moral fiber is at the top of a slippery slope straight to Hell.

Clinton was not impeached for cheating on his wife.  He was impeached for lying under oath.  You all will recall another oath that gets taken every four years on the steps of Congress, right?  Those of you who don't know what I'm talking about probably aren't familiar with the Presidential Oath of Office.  It takes no stretch of the imagination to go from breaking "Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?" to breaking "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States."

Also, Allen, you're view toward right and wrong seem skewed (no offense).  In our society, it's imperative for the community to recognize and scorn the misdeeds of others, that's one of the ideas behind a jury.  What if those twelve people said, "Well, he did kill that man, but nobody's perfect"?

We seek in our leaders what we have lost in ourselves.
--Chris Hartman

[Reply #15 on:]

Nixon is evil because he was a lousy president. And now that he's dead, we can make fun of him all we want!

[Reply #16 on:]

What about Lincoln?  He suspended a bunch Marylander's Constitutional rights.  Should he be made fun of for his dictatorial actions? Thanks to laziness in learning history there is a double-standard: deification of Lincoln and contemning of Nixon.

[Reply #17 on:]

I say mock all of out leaders.  They all will probably go to hell anyway.  Along with most of us! 

[Reply #18 on:]

excuse me ....is that possible that no one knows about the Cile and how Nixon and Kissinger ordered the Cia agents to kill the comunist president and with him other 30'000 civil people?!??!

[Reply #19 on:]

well i dont know, i'm Mexican but i have heard from people that he was a pretty bad president, & I think in SP3K commentary Matt says that he always wanted to make fun of him, that he could still do it after all those years

[Reply #20 on:]

Originally posted by DrThunder88:
Clinton was not impeached for cheating on his wife.  He was impeached for lying under oath.

This is an interesting line of reasoning for comparing Mr. Nixon to Mr. Clinton. I think that Mr. Clinton lied about something that most of us would lie about, and it was a question Kenneth Starr had no business asking in the first place. So while I do think Clinton was impeached for lying rather than adultery, I also think he was impeached by a republican congress for political reasons rather than for crimes that threatened the stability of the country.

As for the original question, why is Nixon portrayed as "evil". His administration was mired in corruption, he was an uncharismatic and unlikable guy, and he retired in disgrace after weakening the office of the presidency. Even if you don't think he was evil, most historians agree that he was one of the worst presidents our country has had.

In this sense, one could just as easily use Warren Harding or James Buchanan as the evil world president, but since most people have no memories or knowledge of these people, it isn't nearly as funny.

[Reply #21 on:]

I don't know anything about Nixon, but I just assume that he fits in the same catagory as dear old Maggie Thatcher   

edit: plus the voice is hilarious...

[Reply #22 on:]

 

Originally posted by Chump:
I remember reading something (an interview) with Matt and they asked about him and Nixon...

That one?
MEET THE MAKER
Matt Groening
(...)
"Kids had long hair, the music was great. The counter-culture was politically galvanized by the Vietnam war. The bad guys were so obviously bad, and the good guys were so obviously...hip.
It was really easy for me to take sides. The absurdity of the Vietnam war--and the protest
against the Vietnam War--has inspired me for the rest of my life. My intense opposition to
Richard Nixon has stayed with me since then. He was such an obvious, hateful buffoon--and yet he got elected overwhelmingly, twice."

[Reply #23 on:]

A few days ago I was watching Futurama with my friends and we ended up talking about Nixon. Not being American we all got stumped when I said is Nixon even alive anymore? We all looked blank. I asked my parents, they weren't sure either. I'm pretty sure he must be dead by now. I just can't remember anyone ever mentioning it! So to any Americans...Is he dead? When and how did it happen?

[Reply #24 on:]

He's dead. He died in April 1994 after having a stroke.

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[Reply #26 on:]

 

Originally posted by Teral:
He's dead. He died in April 1994 after having a stroke.

Right, thanks Teral. I just don't remember ever actually hearing about it. I guess that nobody noticed/cared. Did he just die on his own in a ditch somewhere? Maybe it was in the news, but since I was only 8 at the time, I wouldn't have noticed. 

[Reply #27 on:]

I remember that Treehouse of Horror episode where Nixon says he's not dead yet, when he was put in a jury of ghosts. I do remember the news when they told us he died.

[Reply #28 on:]

The best you can say about Nixon is that he is a very complex person.  He was able to open relations between China and the US, Most of the US major enviromental laws passed when he was President (the rest under Carter), and he did things like wage and price controls that even the most liberal democrat probably wouldn't think of today.

But, you have to counter that with a Paranoid streak that can only be matched by the current White House (although, to be fair, it was a paranoid time).  He undermined several democracies (Chile just being the most obvious example..., Kissenger (sp?) said something like "we shouldn't let democracy get in the way of US interest" ).  He continuosly lied about Vietnam, and expanded the war into Cambodia and Laos (not that the Viet Cong weren't pushing it that way anyway), and, most importantly, in the Watergate scandal, first undermined the democratic process by trying to bug the opposing party, and then the judicial process by covering it up and lying about it.  These fairly could be considered high crimes and misdemenors.

What Clinton did was morally very naughty, but hardly touched upon the political process.  Third degree plagerism is hardly a high crime.  If that is your standard, you probably should impeach a president for lying about his reasons for launching a war or violating a questionable law by selling missles and giving bibles to Iran so he can give money to death squads in Central America.  Personally, I'm against all of this, but they are hardly the things of impeachment.

But, back to the basic question, is Nixon Evil.  No, probably not evil..., but after a 1000 years in a jar, he might be.

[Reply #29 on:]

A little of topic, there was a line Nixon said in War is the H-word. After Bender asks if Kissinger is any good, he says "Looking like that he talked his way into Jill St.John's bed, nuff' said!".

Just wondering, who is Jill St.John?

[Reply #30 on:]

She's an actress. She, among other things, played the female lead in "Diamonds Are Forever".

picture

[Reply #31 on:]

Thanks for the info, Teral! Now I recognize her from the movie. Is this just a rumor or did Kissinger really sleep with her?

[Reply #32 on:]

He really did date Jill St. John for a while.  For some reason he was considered a bit of a sex symbol.  Now doesn't that make you shudder?

[Reply #33 on:]

In the episode "A head in the polls" he says that life as a head in a jar has made him bitter and crazy over the years. Plus having a crazy evil Nixon's head in a jar and he becomes president, is just funny.

[Reply #34 on:]

When I was younger, Nixon was always considered the ultimate "bad" politician.  I guess this was because of watergate, and his coarse language.  He also wasn't very telegenic, which is considered part of the reason that he did poorly in his debate with Kennedy.  I think the pardon that he got from Ford also made a lot of people angry.

[Reply #35 on:]

Nixon is a criminally misunderstood individual.  I like him for the same reason I like Clinton . . . neither of them ever failed to entertain me. 

[Reply #36 on:]

 

Originally posted by Zack Brannigan:
Nixon is a criminally misunderstood individual.   

Remove "ly understood" and you've got it.

[Reply #37 on:]

I love Nixon, he's sooo funny...  And if his ghost is anything like him, he can't haunt my house anyday!  *walks off to have extremely odd conversation with who he believes to be the ghost of Nixon*

[Reply #38 on:]

Nixon IS evil

[Reply #39 on:]

Nixon isn't really THAT evil, is he? Try spending 1000 years as a head in a jar and you'd be crazy, too! But even besides that, Nixon (though he was a criminal) was a semi-good man. I mean, besides watergate, and his bad language, was he really a bad man? Well, actually, now that you mention it...

Oh, well. He's still my favorite president.     

*In her most Nixon-like voice* PEACE!     

Whoa... He died in April '94? I was only 23 months old when he died! I always thought it was more recent...