Cryogenics Goofs

[on:]

Spotted 2 more, here we go:

When Fry 3 falls into the Cryotube, he lets Fry 1 unfreeze in 2999, then he freezes himself for 7.95 years. So what happened to Fry pushing Leela into Tube 40 in the pilot? And how did Fry/Leela/Bender not see him in there in the Cryonic Woman?

Secondly, in the Cryonic Woman, Bender and Fry open the Old Guy's tube multiple times, and he immediately unfreezes, yet in BBS Fry 1's tube is opened twice, and he stays frozen.

[Reply #1 on:]

The first one seems to be a genuine goof at first glance, but my guess would be that Fry is hiding behind the upright couch-type-thing in there and keeps popping out to reset the clockwhen he needs to. Either that, or Leela got pushed into another tube, and the number 40 on that one was a goof. I hate having to try and ass-pull for these things, but that's the best I've got.

For the second, that's a full door open when the occupant unfreezes. A partial open shouldn't wake the occupant, but would be preferably avoided, as it'll take extra power to keep the unsealed tube cold.

[Reply #2 on:]

The first one seems to be a genuine goof at first glance, but my guess would be that Fry is hiding behind the upright couch-type-thing in there and keeps popping out to reset the clockwhen he needs to.

You mean that tiny, single head-rest?

[Reply #3 on:]

The first one seems to be a genuine goof at first glance, but my guess would be that Fry is hiding behind the upright couch-type-thing in there and keeps popping out to reset the clockwhen he needs to.

You mean that tiny, single head-rest?

I always assumed there was a form-fitting couch in there, based on the existence of the headrest, with room for storage to the side or behind. I mean, people are going to want their personal effects to come to the future with them. It was never that much of a stretch for me to assume there was space in there somewhere for Fry to hide.  Think about episodes like Cryonic Woman, where we see more than one person in a tube, for example.

[Reply #4 on:]

The headrest seems to have been widened, and the numbers are missing from the top of the tubes.

[Reply #5 on:]

Previous to that, we see the old man in his tube, surrounded by stuff. There does seem to be a fair bit of space in them.

[Reply #6 on:]

Previous to that, we see the old man in his tube, surrounded by stuff. There does seem to be a fair bit of space in them.

Yet Fry is real close to the glass when he is frozen.

[Reply #7 on:]

So it's more like an animation goof than an error. Excellent. Glad we cleared that up.

[Reply #8 on:]

Great, but I'm still not buying the explanation for the second goof.

[Reply #9 on:]

When the door is fully opened, the unfreezing process is activated.

When the door is partially opened, so that a scientist can chec k the temperature of the patient, or so that Fry can slip into the tube, or so that Bender can put a tattoo on Fry's ass, or for any number of other reasons, the tube doesn't thaw the patient.

Think of an old-model refridgerator. You open the door, and a light comes on. This happens because within the door housing there are two contacts. When these touch, a circuit is completed and allows power to flow to the lightbulb. When the door is closed or nearly closed, these contacts do not touch, and the lightbulb is not activated. Yeah, I'm using an example based on 1950's tech. That's done on purpose. Futurama is very much stuck in the fifties, stylistically.

More modern refridgerators use things like light sensors, "not" gates, and other electronica that mean the light's on all the way up until the door being fully closed, but think of the arrangement I've described. Now think of the cryotube door housing containing two contacts that will meet when the door is fully open. The circuit activates, tripping a switch or solenoid somewhere inside which thaws the patient.

Voila! A reasonable explanation.

[Reply #10 on:]

Good enough for me. I guess this is the 'Cryogenics Goofs' thread now.

[Reply #11 on:]

Another goof, Michelle should be in the kitchen.

[Reply #12 on:]

WAIT. How far do the Cryotube doors open?

[Reply #13 on:]

WAIT. How far do the Cryotube doors open?

Johnny Cab from Total Recall went out of business when his car became obsolete. He begged and pleaded not to go onto the scrapheap with it, so to shut him up he got re-installed behind the Cryotubes...

Fry: How did I get in this Cryotube?

Johnny Cryocab: The door opened, you got in...

[Reply #14 on:]

WAIT. How far do the Cryotube doors open?

90 degrees is the furthest open we see them.

[Reply #15 on:]

WAIT. How far do the Cryotube doors open?

90 degrees is the furthest open we see them.

Lars opens it that far and Michelle remains frozen.

[Reply #16 on:]

WAIT. How far do the Cryotube doors open?

90 degrees is the furthest open we see them.

Lars opens it that far and Michelle remains frozen.

If that's the only example, I'd say that the degree to which the door is opened should be counted as a goof. If there are other examples, then there may be a way to override the automatic thawing process - possibly something to do with the timer mechanism on the doors which decides how long the patient will remain frozen.

[Reply #17 on:]

When the door is fully opened, the unfreezing process is activated.

When the door is partially opened, so that a scientist can chec k the temperature of the patient, or so that Fry can slip into the tube, or so that Bender can put a tattoo on Fry's ass, or for any number of other reasons, the tube doesn't thaw the patient.

Think of an old-model refridgerator. You open the door, and a light comes on. This happens because within the door housing there are two contacts. When these touch, a circuit is completed and allows power to flow to the lightbulb. When the door is closed or nearly closed, these contacts do not touch, and the lightbulb is not activated. Yeah, I'm using an example based on 1950's tech. That's done on purpose. Futurama is very much stuck in the fifties, stylistically.

More modern refridgerators use things like light sensors, "not" gates, and other electronica that mean the light's on all the way up until the door being fully closed, but think of the arrangement I've described. Now think of the cryotube door housing containing two contacts that will meet when the door is fully open. The circuit activates, tripping a switch or solenoid somewhere inside which thaws the patient.

Voila! A reasonable explanation.

That's an excellent explanation. Bravo!

[Reply #18 on:]

That's an excellent explanation. Bravo!

But it was slightly destroyed with this:

Lars opens it that far and Michelle remains frozen.

[Reply #19 on:]

And yet brought back with my reply to that particular post.

[Reply #20 on:]

More cryogenic stuff. Well, one more...

How is it possible that the tube that Fry and Michelle freeze themselves in still works out in L.A.? The tubes and pipes on the top of it have been ripped out, and there appears to be a control panel in the cryogenics lab, so how did they remain frozen?

[Reply #21 on:]

More cryogenic stuff. Well, one more...

How is it possible that the tube that Fry and Michelle freeze themselves in still works out in L.A.? The tubes and pipes on the top of it have been ripped out, and there appears to be a control panel in the cryogenics lab, so how did they remain frozen?

It could have taken a while to unfreeze.Like if you took something out of the freezer it takes like 15 minutes to unfreeze. If its a person I guess it takes a longer time

[Reply #22 on:]

But they are fully frozen and the door opens and makes that 'SHWOOSH' noise and they instantly unfreeze.

[Reply #23 on:]

The real goof is that the issue of massive fatal cellular damage as a result of expanding frozen cytoplasm has not been addressed. Nor has the mechanism for 'fast' freezing, which would be necessary if any realistic attempt at cryopreservation were to be made.
There would need to be some kind of intravenous 'doping' of the subject's bloodstream for some hours before the attempt were made, with an as-yet unknown compound that either increases cell membrane elasticity, or prevents the crystalization of cell cytoplasm.
Applied Cryogenics can been seen to have been in operation since at least the 1980s (when the Wall Street guy was frozen), and has been freezing people who are still alive. This is illegal due to the fact that with current technology, freezing a person means death, so it's murder, regardless of any fatal disease the individual may have.
So Applied Cryogenics seems to be operating way outside the law, and has access to a technology level far ahead of what is supposed to exist at the time of its establishment.

I could suggest that the Nibblonians are the ones who secretly bankrolled the place and provided its technology for the sole purpose of preserving Fry. This might also explain why the facility was permitted to survive multiple disastrous alien invasions during the intervening 1000 years.

Or perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

[Reply #24 on:]

The real goof is that the issue of massive fatal cellular damage as a result of expanding frozen cytoplasm has not been addressed. Nor has the mechanism for 'fast' freezing, which would be necessary if any realistic attempt at cryopreservation were to be made.

Perhaps it's something novel, such as applying a 15T magnetic field to retard crystallization and aid cooling.

I could suggest that the Nibblonians are the ones who secretly bankrolled the place and provided its technology for the sole purpose of preserving Fry. This might also explain why the facility was permitted to survive multiple disastrous alien invasions during the intervening 1000 years.

I like your thinking!

[Reply #25 on:]

I don't know much about cryomagnetics, but I do know about cryoprotectants, like dimethyl sulfoxide, ethylene glycol, Dimethyl sulfoxide, and so fourth. Only problem with these is that the levels required for the successful vitrification of a human body would also be lethally toxic.
And Fry did not receive an injection of any vitrifying compound before falling into the tube anyway. Unless it was some automated mechanism within the tube, unseen by the viewer. It would also have taken quite a while to permeate his tissue, and we see that he was 'flash-frozen' almost instantly (this alone being a non-existent technology as of 2011).

So if we're to assume that world history, technology levels, etc, were as they were in the real world during Futurama's 'dumb ages' (which we sort of do), the existence of Applied Cryogenics is a problem.

You'll need to explain the use of magnetic fields to retard crystal formation. This is an angle I've not heard of before. I try to keep up to date with most areas of life-extension research.

I like your thinking!

Me too.

[Reply #26 on:]

Wait a minute ... Is that Sarah Palin in the tube on the right?

[Reply #27 on:]

You'll need to explain the use of magnetic fields to retard crystal formation. This is an angle I've not heard of before. I try to keep up to date with most areas of life-extension research.

It was just idle speculation.  My intuition is that it might also aid in cooling, but I can't articulate the feeling further.

[Reply #28 on:]

Another thing, Fry taking a nap in one of the tubes would have no effect.

When he was frozen for a 1000 years, he wasn't 'awake' all that time, it was probably just a split second to him, so if he just got in and closed his eyes then got frozen, it would have no effect.

Unless he somehow told Bender to close the door for him when he had fallen asleep, but otherwise it would be pointless. And I doubt Bender would care enough/remember to do it/or he would purposely wake up Fry to annoy him. (To add to that prank, he could wake him up then quickly freeze him. )

[Reply #29 on:]

When he was frozen for a 1000 years, he wasn't 'awake' all that time, it was probably just a split second to him, so if he just got in and closed his eyes then got frozen, it would have no effect.

I'm not sure I understand this logic, he wasn't "awake" for the whole time that he was frozen, but you don't think it had any sort of sleep effect?

When Fry got out of the freezer in the pilot he seemed rather tired, so it must have had some kind of sleeping effect even if he didn't actually go to sleep before he was frozen.

To Fry, it was probably like he got into the freezer and a split second later, woke up feeling refreshed after his "power nap", despite not actually "sleeping".

[Reply #30 on:]

A wizard did it.

There, end of contradiction!

[Reply #31 on:]

To Fry, it was probably like he got into the freezer and a split second later, woke up feeling refreshed after his "power nap", despite not actually "sleeping".

Good point.

However, (I love proving stuff wrong) Leela was not tired when she was frozen in SP3. Or Bender in BBS, but he's a robot, so I'll let that one go. Or Michelle. Or that guy who needed to pee. Or the old man.

[Reply #32 on:]

How do you know?

Just because they didn't yawn or say "man, I'm so tired" doesn't mean they didn't feel a bit tired or drowsy. Sometimes when I wake up, I yawn, rub my eyes, etc. Sometimes, my alarm clock goes off and I have to jump out of bed and put on my clothes.

[Reply #33 on:]

It was just idle speculation.  My intuition is that it might also aid in cooling, but I can't articulate the feeling further.

It sounded just sciencey enough to be possible. At the very least in a work of fiction.  

Annnnnnnd, some searching later:
http://mariakonovalenko.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/freezing-without-cryoprotectants/

So you're right. It's already being used to preserve human teeth (for some reason). It prevents the ice-crystal damage and also solves the 'flash-freezing' question.

However it didn't exist in 1999, let alone the 80s.

Still, very very interesting. I'll keep abreast of developments. This could one day form the basis of viable human preservation in the real world.

Another thing, Fry taking a nap in one of the tubes would have no effect.

I thought that was a joke. Fry being a dumbass and thinking that suspension = sleep.

If the individual is preserved in stasis, the rejuvenating processes of sleep cannot take place. If the stasis is actually just a massive slow-down of biological process rather than a total cessation then perhaps some sleep-like benefit might come from it, but only from a long-term suspension (like 1000 years), not from only a day or so. If the heart beats only, say, once an hour, then the other processes (including the neurological hormone releases that take place in sleep) would be similarly slowed, meaning that a fifteen-minute "nap" in stasis would equate to a split-second of proper sleep.

[Reply #34 on:]

It sounded just sciencey enough to be possible. At the very least in a work of fiction. 

Annnnnnnd, some searching later:
http://mariakonovalenko.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/freezing-without-cryoprotectants/

So you're right. It's already being used to preserve human teeth (for some reason). It prevents the ice-crystal damage and also solves the 'flash-freezing' question.

Well, whadda' you know...   Fascinating technology, though my half-formed idea was to use a very intense static field to keep all of the hydrogen atoms in the water  oriented in one plane, hopefully retarding crystal formation.

[Reply #35 on:]

Well apparently the only thing required to retard crystal formation is speed. If you can freeze something instantly, it will be vitrified. And theoretically, the same process should be applicable to instantly thaw the subject. Or, if the field strength is miscalculated, blow them up.
Hooray! Weapons application!!

[Reply #36 on:]

So I used this calculator thingy to work out how many seconds, minutes, days, weeks etc.  Fry was frozen for, between 1st Jan 2000 and 31st Dec 2999. (This is probably not accurate)

365,242 days or 999 years, 11 months and 30 days.
31,556,908,800 seconds.
525,948,460 minutes.
8,765,808 hours.
52,177 weeks.

[Reply #37 on:]

Did you take leap years and seconds into account and also that he woke up a few hours before midnight?

[Reply #38 on:]

Presumably the cryo tube would take leap years into account because there is an agreed-upon formula.  Probably not leap seconds, though, as those are not added on an exact schedule.

[Reply #39 on:]

The leap seconds might explain why Fry woke up hours earlier?

And yes, the tube will take leap years into account, but did Danny? Apparently not.