Dear Diary: I made love for the second time!

[Reply #40 on:]

 

Originally posted by JBERGES:
  So by your logic, women never wear underpants?   

No, because they too have to excrete waste....

I was just saying Kif (being a supposed male) could have a penis without using it for sexual purposes.

[Reply #41 on:]

 

Originally posted by Nerd-o-rama:
Perhaps Amphibians are born with a specific gender (Kif is male, Glab is female) but males can spontaneously change gender for the purpose of breeding with other species.  This doesn't change their appearance, but gives them female "equipment" and makes them act even girlier than normal.  I have no idea why a species would evolve this way, but then again this is the same Universe that gave us things like Zoidberg and the Yarn People of Nylar IV.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Reply #42 on:]

Well, it is correct that Kif might not be a male by the human definition but he seems to define himself as male and one Amazonia they thought he was.  There life cycle is weird and at this point in time I am going to hold onto the idea that the breasts are for nursing.  Do the commentaries say anything about this?

[Reply #43 on:]

What, you mean like human nipples on men?

Edit: sorry, I missed the breasts discussion and thought that you were just talking about Kif. They could be there for feeding, as Kif's race still have to grow up after coming back to land.

[Reply #44 on:]

 

Originally posted by Nerd-o-rama:
Can Kif even...you know...in the traditional way?  I mean...does his species have the equipment?

I doubt it.  Considering the way that they reproduce, there wouldn't be any evolutionary reason that they would.

 

Originally posted by ShortRoundMcfly:
He's probably like African Frogs, they're all males until it's time to reproduce, in which case 50% of the local population becomes female. So when he gave birth he probably had a female organs.

Changing genders has nothing to do with it.  Remember, it could have been Fry's or Zapp's DNA just as easily as it could have been Amy's or Leela's.  He was equally susceptible to to DNA from either gender at the same time.

 

Originally posted by Teral:
Kif's race have the usual male/female division. The Grand Midwife and DOOP president Glab for example are both female even though it isn't time to reproduce for them.

There are man-bots and fem-bots, but they aren't actually male and female in a biological sense.

If Kif is capaple of reproduction with humans of either gender, then it seems likely that it's possible for any two individuals of Kif's species to reproduce with each other.

 

Originally posted by Hedonism Bot:
Are we ever told that the DOOP seceratry and the Grand Midwife are female? It could be that we are trying to put human labels on them, when in fact they are just dressed differently.

I agree 100%.  There's no reason that every alien race has to have two different genders just because humans do.  There are plenty of species right here on earth that don't.

 

Originally posted by Evil Abe:
There life cycle is weird and at this point in time I am going to hold onto the idea that the breasts are for nursing.

Okay, now explain why Decapodian females appear to have breasts.

[Reply #45 on:]

Sexual characteristic, which just happens to have similarities to human physiology, if that's the right word.

Or they could be the egg sacs.

[Reply #46 on:]

They could be any number of things.  That's my point.

Another point:  Gender identity and biological gender are not always the same thing.  Kif may consider himself male by human standards.  Others of his race may consider themselves female.  That still doesn't necessarily mean that his race has two distinct biological genders.

[Reply #47 on:]

Changing genders has nothing to do with it. Remember, it could have been Fry's or Zapp's DNA just as easily as it could have been Amy's or Leela's. He was equally susceptible to to DNA from either gender at the same time.

I didn't mean that he needed to change genders for DNA extraction, he needed to do it to give birth. Really just an answer to how he could have male organs, and still give birth.

[Reply #48 on:]

The males could be the ones to give birth in Kif's species....the male seahorse gives birth, but is still a male.

[Reply #49 on:]

I know it is not a fact that the breasts are for nursing but I am just attempting to cobble some explanation together.  If Kif does view himself as male by human standards why would others of his species view him as female.  It would make more sense that there would be a concensus in the Amphibianiod community on the subject and his opinion would reflect this consensus.  I doubt that he could have children will Amy by impregnating her.  But they could take some of his DNA and artificially inseminate her if they want children that way.

[Reply #50 on:]

 

Originally posted by ShortRoundMcfly:
I didn't mean that he needed to change genders for DNA extraction, he needed to do it to give birth. Really just an answer to how he could have male organs, and still give birth.

He could be hermaphroditic and have both sets of organs at the same time.  Anyway, who says he even has 'male organs'?  His species reproduces through skin-to-skin contact.  They don't need any special organs for that.

[Reply #51 on:]

Then wouldn't he just be a complete female?

[Reply #52 on:]

To the question with breasts, id go with opinion of Hedonism bot and David a. The "breasts" could be actually anything, but i dont think that they are for nursing offspring since the kiffs race has some what similiaritys with frogs(the offspring look like tadpoles etc.) and i might be wrong but i wouldnt actually count kiff as an mammal.

[Reply #53 on:]

 

Originally posted by ShortRoundMcfly:
Then wouldn't he just be a complete female?

No, because the term "female" implies that there are males as well. The problem is, we're all using human labels for aliens, when there is really no parallel except possibly the term "hermaphrodite".

[Reply #54 on:]

There are at least two-forms of the Amphibian species.  This would lead us to believe there are two sexes.  If is one representative of the species.  He is male like and considers himself 'male'.  The DOOP Secretary and the Grand Midwife are the representative of the species.  I don't believe they can be hermaphrodites because won't Kif be someones Smizmarv if he was in a traditional relationship and the Grand Midwife doesn't ask about it.  If Kif is not a male then why is he interested in Amy.  If he is female then that would make him a lesbian.  Would that make Amy a lesbian then?  What would it make him or Amy if he was a hermaphrodite?

[Reply #55 on:]

Don´t forget that Decapodian females have breasts too and they are representing race which doesn´t raise their young ones at all. Not just cartoon but I think also the whole sc-fi goof coming from disunderstranding of biology/anatomy - or just made for looking enough "common woman".
Also, in KGKUAN thre was implying Kif could be impregnated by males (Fry, Zapp).  This makes  the whole two-sexes problematic even more confusing.     

[Reply #56 on:]

Kif is attracted to Amy because of her character. The Midwife didn't need to ask whether Kif was the smismar or the pregnant one, because it was pretty obvious by that point.

[Reply #57 on:]

Well actually on dvd there was an funny deleted scene where the grand midwife went to zapp and goes: "why did you wait so long"? and zapp points to kiff. So the midwife could go wrong with the guess, whos preagnent one. 

[Reply #58 on:]

 

Originally posted by Hedonism Bot:
The problem is, we're all using human labels for aliens, when there is really no parallel except possibly the term "hermaphrodite".

Even that isn't quite accurate.  A hermaphrodite would be able to impregnate a female, or be impregnated by a male, but would not be able to be impregnated by a female.

 

Originally posted by Evil Abe:
There are at least two-forms of the Amphibian species.

No, there are merely individuals who happen to look male to us, and individuals who happen to look female to us.

There are robots who appear to be either male or female, but they're not.  Check the crotch.  Nothing.

 

I don't believe they can be hermaphrodites because won't Kif be someones Smizmarv if he was in a traditional relationship and the Grand Midwife doesn't ask about it.

Kif was by himself, so she asked him where his smizmar was.  Do you think that she should have asked, "Where is the person of whom you are the smizmar?"

 

If Kif is not a male then why is he interested in Amy.

If his species doen't have seperate genders, why should Kif care one way or the other about Amy's gender?  He might not even understand the concept of gender.  (I'm sure that he knows what it means in a biological sense, but the sociological baggage that goes along with it is probably incomprehensible to him.)

Also, Kif lives and works among humans who tend to consider him to be male.  Most human males are attracted to females, so Kif may unconsciously feel more comfortable with the idea of only dating female humans.  It's also possible that female humans simply happen to embody more of the traits that Kif considers to be attractive in an ideal mate.

 

If he is female then that would make him a lesbian.

He isn't female; he just isn't male either.

 

Would that make Amy a lesbian then?

Personally, I always assumed that Amy was bisexual, even before seeing "Kif Gets Knocked Up a Knotch".  Amy does seem to consider Kif to be male, though.

 

What would it make him or Amy if he was a hermaphrodite?

It makes them two people in a loving, commited relationship.  Do you really need other labels?

[Reply #59 on:]

It seems that the life cycle of Kif people and ther overall nature will remain an unresolved mystery of the universe until maybe we get a season 5.    Also I think Amy and Kif do make a cute couple.     

[Reply #60 on:]

 

Originally posted by David A:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hedonism Bot:
The problem is, we're all using human labels for aliens, when there is really no parallel except possibly the term "hermaphrodite".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even that isn't quite accurate. A hermaphrodite would be able to impregnate a female, or be impregnated by a male, but would not be able to be impregnated by a female.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Evil Abe:
There are at least two-forms of the Amphibian species.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, there are merely individuals who happen to look male to us, and individuals who happen to look female to us.

There are robots who appear to be either male or female, but they're not. Check the crotch. Nothing.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe they can be hermaphrodites because won't Kif be someones Smizmarv if he was in a traditional relationship and the Grand Midwife doesn't ask about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kif was by himself, so she asked him where his smizmar was. Do you think that she should have asked, "Where is the person of whom you are the smizmar?"


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Kif is not a male then why is he interested in Amy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If his species doen't have seperate genders, why should Kif care one way or the other about Amy's gender? He might not even understand the concept of gender. (I'm sure that he knows what it means in a biological sense, but the sociological baggage that goes along with it is probably incomprehensible to him.)

Also, Kif lives and works among humans who tend to consider him to be male. Most human males are attracted to females, so Kif may unconsciously feel more comfortable with the idea of only dating female humans. It's also possible that female humans simply happen to embody more of the traits that Kif considers to be attractive in an ideal mate.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he is female then that would make him a lesbian.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He isn't female; he just isn't male either.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would that make Amy a lesbian then?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I always assumed that Amy was bisexual, even before seeing "Kif Gets Knocked Up a Knotch". Amy does seem to consider Kif to be male, though.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What would it make him or Amy if he was a hermaphrodite?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It makes them two people in a loving, commited relationship. Do you really need other labels?

too much time on your hands

[Reply #61 on:]

Is that what you always say when someone proves you wrong?

[Reply #62 on:]

 

Originally posted by ShortRoundMcfly:
Is that what you always say when someone proves you wrong?

when was i proved wrong?

[Reply #63 on:]

If anphibions did have breasts the writers would have to rethink things a bit.

[Reply #64 on:]

 

Originally posted by Xenomorph:
Say what? Isn't that a bit out of character for Amy?

Guys this one is easy....kif's ppl have babys when they care deeply about their smizmar and with a touch from his hand he get pregnant...so having sex is actually just loving someone(and not wearing the kickass white gloves)in the end having sex with kifs species is f'ed up...and should not be tolerated....
   

[Reply #65 on:]

There's a reason why there appear to be two different genders of Amphibians:  Futurama is inspired by Star Trek.  Basically every single species of alien in Star Trek is ludicrously anthropomorphic in appearance and/or demeanor.  And they all speak English, even before the invention of the Universal Translator.  Therefore, almost every species has male and female members, complete with secondary sexual characteristics.

I stand by my earlier idea of African-frog-style adaptive gender switching, on the basis that Amphibians seem to have evolved from frogs.  Plus, there are a few inherent advantages with being able to spontaneously cross-breed with almost any species.