Devils Hands = Good Season Finale?

[Reply #80 on:]

im in the same boat as you AF i'm 19 and i've never had romantic feelings for anyone ever. Unles you count Nick from the third grade which i don't cause it was the third grade and more then likely he was just my best friend who was a boy and we just thought of each other as 'dating' cause otherwise why would we hang around each other at 9 year old?

[Reply #81 on:]

My first real friend was/is a guy, he's the same age as me and I've known him since we were 1 and a half. But there are no sparks (eeew why would there be?) and if there ever would be it would be between him and one of my other friends, who he and I have know since 3 years of age.

[Reply #82 on:]

 

Originally posted by Robiben:
 Again i think you are wrong. Even if you havent felt it yet you WILL feel it. It is a human emotion that life is empty without.

Are you sure? I mean if you've never felt it you don't know what your missing, and you can't miss something you've never had so you wouldn't see your life as being empty cause you wouldn't have anything different to compare it too. And i'm only talking about feeling love for another, not being loved. As i said above i've never felt anything for anyone romantically but i don't mourn it cause i feel ok on my own. I can tell by watching the people around me that im missing something but i don't really know what it is.

[Reply #83 on:]

 

Originally posted by Venus:
 Are you sure? I mean if you've never felt it you don't know what your missing, and you can't miss something you've never had so you wouldn't see your life as being empty cause you wouldn't have anything different to compare it too. And i'm only talking about feeling love for another, not being loved. As i said above i've never felt anything for anyone romantically but i don't mourn it cause i feel ok on my own. I can tell by watching the people around me that im missing something but i don't really know what it is.

Perfect description of what I feel like every time I see people interacting around me. I keep wondering if maybe there's something about social interaction I cannot and will never experience that makes it so wonderful to everyone else. But I'm just as content to live life alone, since I always have. It's hard to explain, but I keep thinking that I lack something that makes everyone else so happy to be around other people.

Getting off topic... lets connect this to Fry and Leela somehow...

[Reply #84 on:]

Again this is just the way i feel. I could be wrong. Dead wrong.

All i know is that when i see it, i yern for it. I can understand where the "ignorance is bliss" perspective comes from, but for me i cant feel that way. Thats what is so good about Futurama's love story. Its a huge upward battle for Fry. Everytime you see him get shot down you feel for him as if you know what he's going through. And in the end it seems the battle is won. And that fills me with joy.

[Reply #85 on:]

Fry and Leela are two points of view. I'm assuming that those who want love see from Fry's eyes and sympathize with him, and those who get love see from Leela's eye and symapthize with her.

Really, it's a matter of which character you relate to. I relate to Fry in many ways and detest Leela for not returning his love, because I have never seen through Leela's eye what it is like to be in her position.

[Reply #86 on:]

I have to say that i think Leela loved Fry for a fair while but wouldnt/couldnt accept it for a reason i dont understand.

 There are a lot of times that it seems like Leela loves fry. I mean in Parasites Lost when Fry told her that he loved her she practally jumped at the opertunity.

So i think its kind of a two way thing

[Reply #87 on:]

 

Originally posted by Asylum-Fry:

Lastly, out-of-character stuff... if Leela didn't accept Fry before, why would an opera about her suddenly change her mind? Fry was still the same stupid Fry he always was! Unless Leela wanted to be a spoiled brat and toy with Fry in order to get the opera made about her and then dump him later (wait a sec, they never even went out? Fry, you dope!). We all know Bender wasn't up to his standards, and Fry was behaving oddly as well (just noticably). We barely saw any of the rest of the characters, so I can't say how off they were.

Go ahead and argue with me. I love a challenge.

We saw in "Parasites Lost" that Leela has quite a weakness for romantic art, and earlier in "Devil's Hands" she talks about being impressed with Sean's "creative soul".  As well, its not like Fry was some guy she met a day before the opera; episodes like The Why of Fry, Love and Rocket, etc show her warming up to him.  To an extent, the ending could be interperated merely as her warming up to him further.  We never see her "fall in love" with him neccasarily.

Again, I adressed Bender, and really the only thing out of character with him was that he wasn't as crass as he is in some other episodes.  And again, I actually think it was a good thing.  The episode's tone wouldn't have worked well with harsher Bender antics, plus in 3ACV and 4ACV I think there was a slight "toning down" of Bender so that he could become more an empathetical character.  It worked magnificentally in "Godfellas", and here it keeps him lovable as well (for instance, if he had been happy about deafening Leela, it would have been a huge sour note on the episode and ruined the tone).

As for Fry, I need some examples.  I sure can't think of any.

EDIT: I guess I want to add this as well:  you said that Fry was the "same stupid idiot he always was".  But I think part of the point may have been that the opera was what made Leela see it differently.  Again, she's apparently a sucker for romantic art and music.  The point may have been that Fry finally "grew" enough to truly show his love for her.

[Reply #88 on:]

This is for DotheBartman, since it is likely he never saw this (and I posted it after the quoted segment):

 

Originally posted by yours truly:
I love talking about things I don't understand. That way, someone who does understand comes along and explains it to me.

...

Venus: I'm an idiot, I never know what I'm talking about. Arguments merely intrigue me.

[Reply #89 on:]

i have several theories on what may be going on with Leela. Most can be found posted in the human resources department in the various Fry/Leela threads, but here's the cliff notes versions,  One being the one i've been discussing and another being that she sees Fry as being a risk. he has a tendency to get bored with his woman and want to move on. I think it's a safe bet that Leela considers Fry to be one of if not her best friend, and in a life where true friends are few and far between why would she want to risk it? The losers she has dated she can kick to the curb and never see again but if she got with Fry and things didn't work out she still has to interact with him on a day to day basis.

[Reply #90 on:]

I think it may just be that Leela cant understand her love for Fry because in some ways they seem like an imperfect match. Fry is lazy and stupid while Leela is athletic and smart. There are more but i dont really wanna list them.

But i think it was more the feelings that they had for each other deepdown inside them that eventually broke down those walls.

And they do say opposites attract.....

[Reply #91 on:]

 

Originally posted by SuperFry:
But me seeing only half the espisode (the second half) didn't understand the full meaning of the episode but enough to rip my hair out and say WHAT HAPPENS NEXT because it doesn't say how Leela and Fry end up.

Ugh... you start a thread about whether or not the last episode was a good finale, then you reveal you didn't even see the first half?! Well that's a pretty stupid thing to do, isn't it?   

Also, just because it's left open-ended doesn't mean it was a bad finale. You're probably just too young to look past the literal meaning of the ending. The way they ended the series is really much more artistic and meaningful than how it comes across, and you just don't seem to understand that.

[Reply #92 on:]

 

Originally posted by Robiben:
I think it may just be that Leela cant understand her love for Fry because in some ways they seem like an imperfect match. Fry is lazy and stupid while Leela is athletic and smart. There are more but i dont really wanna list them.
.....

i don't think it's as easy as that. Cause she hinted that she didn't fully understand her attraction to Sean but she dated him anyway even though he was as opposite from her as Fry is.

[Reply #93 on:]

i will destroy you!  (excellent episode tho  :]

 

[Reply #94 on:]

Hey, good discusion. I don't have much to say, except I pretty much agree with Venus. In many more ways than one. Espicially when she explains Leela's situation.

 

Originally posted by Robiben:
Thats what is awsome about the romantic quality of Futurama. The love story between Leela and Fry is something that makes me tingle all over. its very hard for me to explain so i really just go with the flow.

Thats why the last episode was so good. Because you finally saw Fry and Leela embrace their love. And in, my mind at least, that is why Devils Hands was probably the best final episode i have ever seen.

Hey, I like this guy! 

 

Originally posted by Asylum-Fry:
I don't like Leela

Die, I say! DIE!!! Well, in a non-dying way, of course. 

[Reply #95 on:]

wow. this thred went from is devils hands a good ending to can katey segal sing to is leela a bitch.

anyway, i like leela's charater in the show.  Fry trying to impress her adds alot to the show.  Althouhg she dosnt have alot of funny lines, if her character was different the whole show would be different.  But as a person not a fictional character, leela is definatly a bitch.

[Reply #96 on:]

Well I have a question what is the diiference between McSeasons and Seasons.

[Reply #97 on:]

Why are you asking in here?

Production Seasons are in the order/timing that Greoning and DXC wanted Futurama to be shown in.
McSeasons are the way FOX aired them.

There are 4 Production Seasons and 5 McSeasons and each are in a different order.

[Reply #98 on:]

So then was Devils' Hands supposed to be the finale by what Groening wanted.

[Reply #99 on:]

Yeah, because they shoved it in at the last minute, so i guess FOX didn't have much of a choice but to play it at the end. And i think it was pretty important for it to be aired as the final episode, so i'm sure FOX were willing to do so... Although this is FOX we're talking about...

That's the way(s) i understand it anyway...

EDIT : Change your post why don't ya...

[Reply #100 on:]

Okay thanks but I do think it was a good season finale but think the Why of Fry may of done better.

[Reply #101 on:]

Getting back to earlier issues, I also think that Katey Sagal's/Leela's singing was off-tone and sounded a bit bad.  She sung so well in the Robot Hell song, so it's a real downer.  Especially since I know she can sing better.  But oh, well.  It wasn't bad, but it could've been better.

And as for characters being, well, off-character in Devil's Hands, it mainly concerns Leela.  Large chunks of this episode felt plot-driven, rather than character driven.  Leela felt like a cardboard cut-out with no particular personality.  She just did what the story demanded.  That being said, it probably has more to do with structural problems with the writing.  The episode felt overall like an unrevised first draft.  As if the writers had no time to go back and add or change stuff.  In addition, I really, REALLY hate that hedonism-bot.  I'm not a particulary huge fan of Crimes of the Hot, so this kind of wrecked my world and put a damper on the series finale for me.

[Reply #102 on:]

Just thought i might point out that the song is an opera. Therefor the people who perform it use different voices from reguler songs.

For all those people who said that Leela sang badly,i think they were just put off by the way she sang her certain bit. I think she pulled it off perfctly in my opinion. Katey Sagal has a very sing-song voice anyway so the opera fit her perfectly. I for one would probaly die if i heard myself try to sing, thats why i admire the singing ablilty of the voice actors.

 

Originally posted by Futurama_Hil:
Hey, I like this guy!

Well wait till later. I've got a baggie of massage oil and im gonna give you my super bad rub that i used to give amy when i was goin out with her, and she always seemed to....uh oh.   

[Reply #103 on:]

 

Originally posted by Robiben:
For all those people who said that Leela sang badly,i think they were just put off by the way she sang her certain bit. I think she pulled it off perfctly in my opinion. Katey Sagal has a very sing-song voice anyway so the opera fit her perfectly. I for one would probaly die if i heard myself try to sing, thats why i admire the singing ablilty of the voice actors.

But she hit high notes that seriously hurt. That wasn't singing, oh no.

Tell me, that is opera how?

[Reply #104 on:]

Thats how high notes sound.  Ever been to an opera? It has higher notes that hurt more than that.  Also alot of musicals have high notes that dont quite settle.  Its a part of music you dont understand.

[Reply #105 on:]

Yeh an opera is a bit diferent to normal singing. I personally dont like operas but i think this one was a bit different to classical opera. Also it was funny.

And even though it was kind of stupid it actually did add to the drama of the episode. I mean without the opera i rekon this episode would be dull.

[Reply #106 on:]

i like the singing. Of everybody. It sounded very operaee to me which was exactly what they were going for. And i think Katey did a great job.

[Reply #107 on:]

 

Originally posted by Venus:
i like the singing. Of everybody.

Not me you wouldnt. i sound like a cross between Pavaroti and Zoidberg.

[Reply #108 on:]

i meant everybody on Futurama. Not everybody in the world. If i liked everybody then that would mean that i liked Macy Gray, but i hate Macy Gray. I send thoughts of ill will in her general direction, therefore i don't like everybody.

[Reply #109 on:]

 

Originally posted by ratm9200:
 
i have too agree with the him being to good for leela part.  Fry does so much for her and she just kinda teases him back.  She's a friggin cyclops, she she should be glad that ANYONE loves her.

Pleased to meet you warden Vogel. 

Not that I want to revigorate this debate (since it is offtopic in this thread), but basically what you're saying is: because of the way she looks, not the way she is Leela is worthless and noone will ever love her. She should be ecstatic that anyone would so much as say something nice to her, let alone care for her. She should hurl herself at Fry because she's all she'll ever get. Nice, very nice.

Besides several other men, besides Fry and Zapp, have found her physically attractive, and showed a romantic interest in her.

[Reply #110 on:]

i did NOT like this  episode. i was promised more than a touching moment, she was no closer to fry than in the end of several episodes. hell, if there WAS a next episode i bet she would be in the sack with some other character.

fry shows her affection and true love, in return he gets a little tease and is then crushed when she goes with some other dude after using fry as a slight crutch for a day or two between guys, or nobody.

she will forever be alone if she keeps up her rate. sure fry is a dumbass, but his heart is in the right place. i have seen more stupid couples.

fry should be with amy, end of story. any is hotter, nicer, on about the same level of character as fry, rich, and likes sex, so does fry...

i am surpried there are less amy/fry fan fics out there. there are like...one...and that's it on ff.net. anyone know some more i can find????

fry/amy fan fics are rarer than naraku/kagome ones...i should know, i'm writting the best one yet on ff.net.

[Reply #111 on:]

Most of what getak says is crap, but I agree that the ending wasn't as emotional as it could've been.  In that respect "The Why of Fry" and "The Sting" were way better.

Hopefully MG will get to do a Futurama film and resolve the situation. 

[Reply #112 on:]

I'm probably about to retread what others have said when defending Leela. Well, dangit, they're good points and I want to make them too! 

Basically what a lot of people here appear to be saying is that Leela does not deserve Fry because she toys with his emotions, by consistantly bringing him closer then pushing him away, leaving him worse off than he was before.

The answer from a production point of view is obvious - since the episodes appear out of order, and the "relationship" stage has been done to death (and is much more likely to enrage sections of 'shippers  ), so it would have been difficult to create a consistent story.

However, from a "Futuramaverse" point of view, I see two options, which are not necessarily mutually exclusive (this is where the treading on other people's points comes  ):

• #1. Leela has a very introspective character:
  
  Leela has had a very tough life, which has probably scored more than it's share of mental anguish.
  
  For starters, she's an orphan, which is compounded by the fact that for 20-odd years she thought she was the only one of her species. And she was taunted from an early age, and unlike most young children, she didn't have a sympathetic guardian to fall back on. She's probably toughened her outer shell which makes it that much harder to form a meaningful relationship with her. And she's probably not even aware of it.
  
  Over the years (before she met Fry), I think Leela has learned that the only person in life she could rely on is herself, which makes her reluctant to "let anyone else in", so to speak. It's much safer to alienate everyone else and live out your life in solitude than to try to reach out to someone, where you might get hurt if you are rejected.
  
  So everytime Fry gets close to her, she gradually opens up. But when the moment is over, her mind races through all the potential possibilities that could occur, and it's safe to say a majority of these scenarios would end up with her being hurt more than before, so she doesn't take the relationship any further.
  
  
• #2. Leela reciprocates Fry's feelings for her, but refuses to allow herself to show it:
  
  Evidence of this theory can be found in "Time Keeps on Slippin'", where Leela talks to Zoidberg about Fry's immaturity. She is attracted to him, but the logical section of her mind argues against it (and Leela is probably governed more by logic than emotion). She feels the attraction, but can't understand it.
  
  As good of heart and sweet Fry may be, he's not exactly in illustrious company. The only other character to pine after her (in his own way) is Zapp, and we all know how her feelings for him go. 
  
  And Fry's outer self, so to speak, distorts the sweet and noble Fry we all know. This was largely the point of "The Devil's Hands are Idol Playthings" and "Parasites Lost"; Fry has all these things he wants to say to Leela, but his underdeveloped "protocol layer" (that is, the layer which converts his inner feelings into words and actions) prevents them from reaching Leela in the spirit intended. When the "protocol layer" is replaced, either in whole or part (as in PL or TDHAIP), Fry becomes much better at expressing his feelings and Leela's logical mind begins to agree with her emotional side.
  
  
  In both cases, Leela does it subconciously. She doesn't do it to "be a bitch", or to "tease Fry", she does it to protect herself because she's been hurt so many times before in her life.
  
  Or at least that's how I see it. 

[Reply #113 on:]

CyberKnight makes a great point.

It becomes obsolete when you remember how Leela seems to be 'too good' for Fry, and yet she'll sleep with such idiots as Zapp, Alcazar, and almost Chad.

Whatever draws her to these people (power?), Fry lacks. She toys with him quite badly in The Why of Fry, and hurts him in Time Keeps On Slippin' by not accepting the truth. Bad situations they may have been, but Leela was the one with the blame.

If she has such a tortured past, what gives her the courage to sleep with people? She doesn't ACT that tortured, which is why Fry continues to make advances on her. If she gave him some concrete sign, maybe he'd leave her alone.

But that's not what she wants.

No, Leela wants this love, attention, and safety because she isn't used to it. No other man she's been with (now this is a guess) really cared about anything beyond her body. Fry is different, Fry even saved her life, and it's because of that that Leela is afraid to be with him. She wants to keep him thinking that he's within reach, when for all we know he isn't.

My two cents ought to be refunded, huh. I made no good points up there, mostly because I sounded extremely anti-Leela. Contradict me.

[Reply #114 on:]

 

Originally posted by Asylum-Fry:
CyberKnight makes a great point.

It becomes obsolete when you remember how Leela seems to be 'too good' for Fry, and yet she'll sleep with such idiots as Zapp, Alcazar, and almost Chad.

To take each of those in turn:

Zapp was a DOOP captain. And she did sleep with him not too long after she met him, and I get the feeling alcohol was involved (champ-agne?  ).

She thought Alcazar was the last male of her species. And he didn't start acting like a jerk until after she slept with him. The same deal with Chad.

Actually, there's a pattern here.

All three are (at first sight) successful; Zapp's a DOOP Captain, Alcazar's the emporer of the remains of Cyclopia (I know it's not called that, Teral  ), and Chad is the aide to the mayor of New York city. And all three hide their "jerk" sides until after she sleep s with them (less so for Zapp).

I feel this actually reinforces my second theory - Leela's logical side guides her to mating with successful men, and her emotional side is overruled (and fooled) by their initial attitudes. Once they reveal their true colours, her logical side reassesses and she recognises what a terrible mistake each of them is.

[Reply #115 on:]

*applauds*

Cyberknight, I think you got a good portion of the conflict down. I don't see almost any flaws in there, if any, and it seems to be the truth. Good job.

How do people do these analizes?! 

[Reply #116 on:]

 

Originally posted by Asylum-Fry:
CyberKnight makes a great point.

It becomes obsolete when you remember how Leela seems to be 'too good' for Fry, and yet she'll sleep with such idiots as Zapp, Alcazar, and almost Chad.

Whatever draws her to these people (power?), Fry lacks. She toys with him quite badly in The Why of Fry, and hurts him in Time Keeps On Slippin' by not accepting the truth. Bad situations they may have been, but Leela was the one with the blame.

If she has such a tortured past, what gives her the courage to sleep with people? She doesn't ACT that tortured, which is why Fry continues to make advances on her. If she gave him some concrete sign, maybe he'd leave her alone.

But that's not what she wants.

No, Leela wants this love, attention, and safety because she isn't used to it. No other man she's been with (now this is a guess) really cared about anything beyond her body. Fry is different, Fry even saved her life, and it's because of that that Leela is afraid to be with him. She wants to keep him thinking that he's within reach, when for all we know he isn't.

My two cents ought to be refunded, huh. I made no good points up there, mostly because I sounded extremely anti-Leela. Contradict me.

As Leela said herself in "A Bicyclops Built For Two", Alcazar is (for all she know) the last male cyclops left in the Universe. She finds him after decades of wondering what her origin was, if there were others like her out there. Then she is told the tragic story about the fall of her people, and how it'll all end when she and Alcazar dies. From a purely scientific point of view it's impossible to recreate a species based on 2 specimen, the gene-pool have to be larger for a viable population. Leela probably knows that (at least subconscious), but she can't just walk away. She has to give it a chance. Plus uptil this point Alcazar have been the perfect gentleman. Athletic, polite, charming, sensitive, etc.

Zapp. Granted she allowed her judgement to slip with this one. Her emotions took control of her actions, and she took pity on him. Afterwards she probably blamed herself for ever doing something as stupid as that (the logical reasoning CyberKnight spoke about further up), and sad to say the encounter with Zapp probably made Fry's quest to win Leela's heart that much harder. It's pretty safe to say, she wont allow her emotions to take control that easily again. At least not when the subject is men and relationships.

Chad seemed like a good catch first. Influential (I still maintain he was corrupt), powerful, dedicated, loyal and I guess he was somewhat good looking (what do I know    ). And she didn't sleep with him. She saw what he was about when the orphans showed up, and dumped him on the spot. At most it was a bad date.

As for toying with Fry in "The Why of Fry". I think Leela is so thrilled about things going well with Chad, she doesn't even think how her words will affect Fry. If you look at her, she's clearly very pre-occupied with the dat. She sees her good friend across the room, and ask him for a favor. A very important favor, that show her trust in Fry. I doubt there are that many people she would trust enough to leave Nibbler in their hands.

"Time Keeps On Slipping": Yeah, but after Fry's "time slip shelter", constant begging for a date, etc. it's natural she'll be suspsicious of how things made such a U-turn. And when all Fry can come up with is "I don't know, but I'm sure it was quite something", well, there comes Leela's logic again and warn her to be on her guard.

Maybe Leela just want Fry as a friend. It's clear she consider him one of her best friends, if not the best. And looking at her past, she doesn't appear to have had many friends. Keeping Fry's friendship probably means a lot to her, even more than the slim chance of having a relationship with him. When Fry had a relationship with Amy, he ran straight to Leela and complained how Amy was suffocating him, and he wasn't "a one-woman man". When they finally did break up, Amy bounced right back, because that's the kind of person she is (in the nicest way). Leela probably wont take it so lightly, and I seriously doubt she and Fry could be so carefree about the whole thing. Leela is probably thinking, if he could grow so easily tired of Amy (what with all they have in common), the same thing could happen to her, and then what would happen? She'd lost her friendship with Fry (or at least damaged it, maybe beyond repair) and she'd end up getting hurt again. It's just not worth the risc, when she has Fry as a truely great friend, at least not right now.

Two thumbs up, CK. Nice write-up. ::Applauds::

Edit: well that should teach me not to take this long to write a reply. Edited quote in.

[Reply #117 on:]

 

Originally posted by Futurama_Hil:
How do people do these analizes?!   

With magic and a point to prove.

However, I always lose. I think that keeps happening for a reason, though... I'm doing something wrong, but hey, at least everyone's taking a closer look at the last episode before the Devil's Hands vs. Insane in the Mainframe fall madness poll, my favorite and least favorite eps competing, wooooo.

[Reply #118 on:]

 

Originally posted by Futurama_Hil:
How do people do these analizes?!   

You mean I can do other things instead of PEELing?   

Seriously though, I find many striking parallels between the Fry/Leela dynamic and the Paris/Torres relationship on Voyager (stop groaning over there, Teral   ).

Both Torres and Leela have suffered their (un)fair share of mental anguish (both related to their parents, and both were tormented by their peers at young ages). Both Fry and Paris are underachievers, and despite having generally good hearts, can come across as insensitive.

Both couples flirt with each other a long time before they get together (presuming they do get together after TDHAIP, of course, which is by no means certain). And both women start with mild contempt for their eventual partners, and push them away to protect themselves.

While on the subject of Voyager, and relating to the topic's title, I just thought it was interesting how the two finales compare.

"Endgame" and "TDHAIP" can both be said to end abruptly (especially "Endgame" ).

And both can be said to focus almost exclusively on the major main character(s).

And yet I despise "Endgame" and love "The Devil's Hands are Idol Playthings". And I don't feel "TDHAIP" ended too abruptly, yet Voyager had at least 4 times the time to end the series.

And it all comes down to plotting. I did not like the "let's put loads of special effects into this episode and to hell with the plot" attitude of Endgame, whereas TDHAIP focused on one of the key elements of "Futurama", the relationship between Fry and Leela. And it didn't feel forced, because they'd led up to it in countless episodes.

Some people have said that the crew in TDHAIP were out-of-character, and yet it didn't feel that way to me. But "Endgame" did, because of it's flagrant ignorance of Star Trek history.

In my opinion, TDHAIP is a shining example of how to write a series finale (and yet it wasn't even intended as a final one!). Not with super-duper-special-effects (in fact TDHAIP was rather subdued on that front, with relatively little 3D and all the holophoner scenes "rendered"    in standard 2D animation), but by sticking to the series' core themes (which, by the way, is something I feel the TNG finale, "All Good Things", also excels at).

Anyway, sorry to rant about Star Trek (when most of you haven't even seen the episode   ) but I found it useful to compare the strengths of the finales.

By the way, thanks, Hil and Teral. 

[Reply #119 on:]

 

Originally posted by CyberKnight:
In my opinion, TDHAIP is a shining example of how to write a series finale (and yet it wasn't even intended as a final one!).

It wasn't meant to be the final one? But it seemed so....... final. Especially if you heard it was the last episode before you saw it.

EDIT: Also, I meant no offense to you, CyberKnight, if my posts sounded like that. I was just being a desperate debater.