Thoughts on 7ACV03 - Decision 3012 - SPOILERS!

[Reply #120 on:]

I don't recall many past presidents being asked to show things like their college transcripts in the first place, because it just wasn't that important.

I was joking. I think GWB was the only president to actually release his records. From what I recall (I'm not quite sure), he did poorly in government and political science but a bit higher in history.

I, frankly, think that there is more than a little tinge of racism and xenophobia that goes into this in Obama's particular case (even without him actually being foreign, he has a foreign-sounding name, a foreign father he barely knew, and, for racial reasons, "feels" foreign to many racists).

Let's not forget the whole "You're racist if you don't support Obama" trend, either.

Modern U.S. politics are beyond stupid.

This is just politics in general, even down to the non-government local level.

He has. Many have. The last 30+ years' worth of presidents all have. And they've sold the country down the river in the process.

Fortunately, those were just old formalities in the Constitution.

[Reply #121 on:]

I liked this one..

good Futurama jokes... good solid characters and nice quantum mechanic physics jokes.. all characters were in their good places.. and nice unespected twists...


tought the problem i see being anoying... if he traveles back in time using the tatoo code... wasnt it supose to allow time travel without paradox? because here he caused a paradox wich made him vanish and time correct itself....unlike in  Bender's Game

Also.. more to the point.. there is still a time paradox..  if he dissapears and Nixon takes power... he will set in motion the very events that made him travel back..

i mean

1-he travels back in time to stop nixon
2-he stops nixon.. but then the events nixon created dont take place so he didnt had to travel back and he vanish
3-Nixon then wins .. but then he sets in motion those events
4-He then would HAD to travel back in time.. will he reapear?

only explanation.. wich is the typical one is "reset" ... nixon wins but somehow the events wont take place

[Reply #122 on:]

Javier, we've come up with the right explanation for the whole time travel thing in this episode.

Travers stopped Nixon from winning the election, therefore the robot uprising never happened. That means there was no reason for Travers to come back in time, so he is erased from the current timeline since he never needed to go back. Then, because he did succeed in stopping Nixon, however, no longer exists, it created a new timeline where Nixon won but the robot stuff won't happen. (I think.)

Basically, the paradox-erase thing can't have an effect on Travers since he never used the code.

[Reply #123 on:]

No, Javier is correct. It doesn't make sense.

That's not how the code worked in the past - they went out of their way to make that clear in Bender's Big Score.

And even ignoring that, the paradox makes no sense because why does it just stop being an infinite loop? There's nothing in the episode to suggest that Nixon and the robotic uprising won't happen in the future.

[Reply #124 on:]

That's not how the code worked in the past - they went out of their way to make that clear in Bender's Big Score.

But the code isn't in use! Travers never used it!

There's nothing in the episode to suggest that Nixon and the robotic uprising won't happen in the future.

True.

[Reply #125 on:]

No, Javier is correct. It doesn't make sense.

There's nothing in the episode to suggest that Nixon and the robotic uprising won't happen in the future.

True.

Once again, I find myself having to explain time travel to people. I'll try to simplify it as much as possible, and skip over all the technical terms I've had to invent to quantify this and fit it into the general Futuramaverse time-travel rules without breaking anything. No, that's okay. Don't thank me or anything.

• Travers stepped through the timesphere. He went back in time.
• He created a reality in which he didn't step through the timesphere.
  
• He didn't step through the timesphere.
• Therefore he had never actually existed in the past.
• Reality adjusted to compensate, removing Travers from the timeline.

If you really need it broken down just a little further, then here's a visual aid:

1. Travers is born.
2. Travers sees Nixon win the election.
3. Robot uprising.
4. Travers goes back in time.
5. Travers arrives in the past, changing the timeline.
6. Travers witnesses himself being born. So does the rest of the planet, thanks to Leela's interference.
7. Travers wins election.
8. Travers' interference with the timeline means that he does not go back in time. The universe corrects the paradox by "deleting" Travers from the timeline.
9. Travers is born for a third time.
10. Nixon wins the election.
11. At this point, there is still an echo of the "amended" timeline (the crew remember, etc). There is no robot uprising, presumably due to the temporal echo at this point (Bender remembers, and Bender would lead the uprising if nothing had been altered).
12. Reality finishes compensating, and Travers is born for the final time.
13. Nixon wins the election.
14. In order for the paradox to remain corrected, there can be no robot uprising. The time code/reality adjust things accordingly. Time proceeds as "normal". Nobody remembers the first eleven points. As far as anybody is aware, there was an election and Nixon won it. It was as simple as that.

That's all she wrote, folks. It's really quite simple. If you want a more in-depth explanation, then here it is:

This is a closed event spiral, as distinct from an open event spiral (a closed spiral has a beginning and an end, going through several iterations where something changes each time. An open event spiral has a beginning, but no definable end, going through a potentially infinite number of iterations, where something may or may not change each time). These are both distinct from their more commonly-known cousin, the stable time loop, in which the loop is kept the same rather than changed, and the loop only occurs once (Fry's trip to 1947 being the first example of this in the Futuramaverse).

The event spiral is closed by the resolution of the paradox, which occurs due to the paradox-correction mechanism of the timesphere. Without this, it would be an open event spiral, and would be resolved by events coalescing at some point within the spiral to form a clear forward path. Who knows what would have been required to resolve a spiral with 8 nodes. The most complex open spirals in BBS, for comparison, involved 4 nodes at maximum (although some spirals ran on from one another and some overlapped, making it confusing to map).

Just for contrast with this, the time travel in TLPJF is a stable loop, but forms an event spiral across multiple iterations of the same timeline, rather than within the same one. Simple to map in some ways, very hard to visualise without a pen and paper.

It is impossible to determine how much the "natural" order of events was deviated from in the "original" timeline, or whether this "new" timeline represents a deviation. However, we can expect any deviations to be short-lived. If the Futuramaverse was meant to have a robot uprising at some point, it will do. It is impossible to determine without more evidence (episodes) whether this is the case. However, the events of TLPJF do show the continuation of human society as normal to at least the year 3050. We can infer from this that the closed spiral was always meant to occur, and that the robot uprising is an alternate future rather than the path that this universe was meant to take. Somewhere, the Professor might have a box containing a universe that's got a robot uprising waiting to destroy the human race in the near future.

If all of that seems too complex, here's the quick version:
It makes sense.

[Reply #126 on:]

But the code isn't in use! Travers never used it!

what? the code is what he uses to travel back....

[Reply #127 on:]

I was just going to come in here and clarify all this time traveling stuff for people who are still confused about how it functions in this episode--but then tnuk came along and did my work for me. By which I mean, I had no idea how all this time traveling stuff functions, but then I read tnuk's post and it did, indeed, make a lot of sense.

What I actually came in this thread to do is report that I rewatched this episode yesterday, and am now convinced that it is a solid 7/10. The pacing problems I perceived about it the first time I watched it mostly went away; a lot still happens in this episode, but it's much easier to follow the second time around. The Obama parallels are a bit obnoxious in their sheer volume, but I don't think they will easily become dated (nor do they feel terribly partisan to me. Sure, I'd imagine that most (if not all) of the writers are Obama-supporting, liberal-minded folks--but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of anti-Republican bias in the portrayal of Travers's opponents. It's more like an anti-idiot bias--and, since idiocy transcends party lines, I didn't feel like I was being beaten over the head with some Obama and the Democratic Party Are Our Only Hope nonsense).

Anyway. Most of the jokes hit their mark, Travers is an interesting character in his own right, and I really am impressed with how well Leela comes off in this episode (and how well-utilized the entire cast is, really; it's an episode that's mostly about the trio, which I like). The time traveling stuff also adds an interesting dimension to this episode; it takes advantage of the futuristic setting, and keeps the story from becoming too, like, contemporary or otherwise mundane.  

In summary: I didn't have high hopes for this episode, and it will by no means become one of my All-Time Favorites or anything--but it was perfectly average by Futurama standards, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

[Reply #128 on:]

If that's how the time-travel works here then it completely undermines their entire "nothing changes" joke which was the only thing making the way that the time-travel played out even remotely acceptable.

Plus, you're just filling in the gaps for yourself there. There's absolutely nothing within the episode itself to suggest that there won't still be a robotic uprising in the future.

[Reply #129 on:]

If that's how the time-travel works here then it completely undermines their entire "nothing changes" joke which was the only thing making the way that the time-travel played out even remotely acceptable.

Nothing changes and everything changes at the same time. The joke isn't that "nothing changes", and that's the joke. The joke could be that nothing changes, except that right at the end of the episode, that's yanked from under you. Which is the big twist. Nothing changes, but everything changes.

Or something. The time travel works within the general framework. The show's writers are pretty smart. There's only been one truly egregious violation of causality in the entire run so far. It didn't occur in this episode.

Plus, you're just filling in the gaps for yourself there. There's absolutely nothing within the episode itself to suggest that there won't still be a robotic uprising in the future.

There's Travers' disappearance. If the robotic uprising still occurs, he'll still be sent back. Which he isn't. Meaning there wasn't, or rather, won't be a robot uprising. The whole thing has internal consistency.

[Reply #130 on:]

3rd episode, still very good. As always, time travel based episode is excellent.
I will destroy you!
Interesting that Bender "calculated" upcoming events right. 

I think Travers was able to exist as long as he wasn't born yet (because of paradox-correcting time code), or did he just have good luck? 

[Reply #131 on:]

I think Travers was able to exist as long as he wasn't born yet

Travers never stopped existing. He simply stopped having gone back in time. He was born, and will presumably live a different life now that he's not going to have to deal with the robot uprising and be sent back in time at age 15 to try to stop Nixon in his tracks.

[Reply #132 on:]

Well, to be fair I do think that Mitt Romney is a piece of shit and do think that Obama is an honest and well meaning candidate desperately attempting to rescue the world from the horrors of the Republican character winning.

Of course, thats how ALL political episodes from Simpsons/Futurama play out due to the strong left leaning writers. So if you don't think what they think it hurts ones viewing of an episode.

Ideally, I'd stay away from politics if I was a writer for a Groening show.

You sound naive. Obama is continuing the tradition of destroying our constitution and our freedoms.

However, I still loved this episode. The point at the end that nothing changes was right on.

[Reply #133 on:]

I think Travers was able to exist as long as he wasn't born yet

Travers never stopped existing. He simply stopped having gone back in time. He was born, and will presumably live a different life now that he's not going to have to deal with the robot uprising and be sent back in time at age 15 to try to stop Nixon in his tracks.

Well, I meant that he didn't die, even if he was duplicate form future.
He became duplicate after baby Travers was born (I think).

[Reply #134 on:]

what? the code is what he uses to travel back....

Yes but he erased that point in time, so he never used it at all! (In the end.)

[Reply #135 on:]

You sound naive.

Nice edit.

EDIT:  Nevermind.  Can't anyone be bothered to take the extra time to write a well thought out post initially instead of posting something barely comprehensible and then ninja editing it into something slightly more comprehensible?

[Reply #136 on:]

The time travel works within the general framework. The show's writers are pretty smart. There's only been one truly egregious violation of causality in the entire run so far. It didn't occur in this episode.

I'm guessing you mean 'All the Presidents' Heads'?

[Reply #137 on:]

Well, I meant that he didn't die, even if he was duplicate form future.
He became duplicate after baby Travers was born (I think).

What?

The paradox-correcting time travel code exterminates duplicate of person and Travers used that code.
Maybe my explanation is too confusing.

[Reply #138 on:]

But the time-travel duplicate of Travers was the baby. The time-code always favours the person who lived their life "first" and then went back in time as the original. And version of themself that might exist in the past once they get there is the duplicate.

So, no, that doesn't work.

[Reply #139 on:]

Actually, the time code favors whichever version of you used the time code last.  I don't feel like typing this all out again:

Yes, I think you are right.  Thinking back on BBS, it seems the paradox correction favors whichever version of you used the time code last as the "prime" and not be doomed.

• The version of Nudar who went back survived, as the "original" hadn't used the time code at all from his perspective.
• All of the versions of Bender were destroyed except the one who used the code last, in order to rip the tattoo from Fry's ass.
• The version of Fry that survived was the one who used the code last in order to go back for warm pizza.
• Because baby-Travers would never have used the code at all, he would be the one to die.

Seems consistent.

I like it, except it does seem contradictory.  If I know that another version of me exists in my current time frame, it is in my best interest to use the time code again in order to ensure that I am the last version to use it.  If the other version of me also knows this, it would lead to a time code use arms race that would certainly result in the Universe ripping in half from so many uses.  Errrrr.

[Reply #140 on:]

cyber_turnip will not give up this battle.

[Reply #141 on:]

This is good enough to me.

[Reply #142 on:]

Actually, the time code favors whichever version of you used the time code last.  I don't feel like typing this all out again:

I believe it favours whoever existed "first" in a chronological, storyline point of view - as in, whoever decides to go back in time, actively, is the original and anybody who encounters a version of themselves that has gone back in time, passively, is a time-duplicate. But given the examples we have to work from in "Bender's Big Score"... well, it could be how I say it works or how you say it works because they're both consistent with each other.

The point is that the baby was the time-travel duplicate and the one that should have been killed/erased from time and you "correcting" me doesn't change that because we're both in agreement about that.

[Reply #143 on:]

Edit - Nevermind. I don't really care to read through all this time travel discussion right now, so I'm going to withdraw my snark.

[Reply #144 on:]

No , the baby was the original Travers ... he wasnt a duplicate..it was the original travers being born..

TNUK explanation makes sense asuming that the universe and time-line changes things to self-adjuste... in this case the robot uprising not taking place (in wich case Travers won in the end)


And i gave it a 7

[Reply #145 on:]

You sound naive.

Nice edit. :

Thanks!

[Reply #146 on:]

No , the baby was the original Travers ... he wasnt a duplicate..it was the original travers being born..

TNUK explanation makes sense asuming that the universe and time-line changes things to self-adjuste... in this case the robot uprising not taking place (in wich case Travers won in the end)


And i gave it a 7

The baby was a time-travel duplicate according to how the time-code works.

1. The original Travers was born in the events "prior" to this episode. Not literally prior, but you know, in a story-sense, prior.
2. Travers grows up a bit, then goes back in time.
3. He is still the original Travers, meaning that when he is there to witness the birth of himself, he's witnessing the birth of a time-travel duplicate.

Compare it to Nudar when he goes back in time to perform certain acts with himself:

1. The original Nudar goes back in time.
2. He meets his past self after going back in time - his past self is the time-travel duplicate.
3. His past self is killed due to high levels of doom caused by the time-code.

The baby we see being born is the time-travel duplicate and therefore, the one that should have died or been erased from time or whatever.

[Reply #147 on:]

I still think it was the original.. the baby was Travers.. the original one... then Travers goes back in time before his own born... he HAD to be born... baby Travers was to born (unless someone kills the parents or something like that) and Travers was a time traveler...

sorry but i dont see the baby being the duplicate.. he was natural within the time line... Travers adult wasnt

[Reply #148 on:]

This whole original vs. duplicate thing is irrelevant to the time code anyway.  All it cares about is that there are two (or more) duplicates.  It doesn't discriminate on who was the 'original' which is subjective anyway.  'Original' only means anything to us from a storyline perspective.  Like I said earlier, it discriminates based on who used the time code last.  In all of the cases, the version that survived is the one who used the code last.

[Reply #149 on:]

Regardless, the time-code should have favoured adult Travers' existence over the baby's and it didn't.

[Reply #150 on:]

"People will wait for something good."

This is my favorite of the three episodes shown so far. I was worried after seeing the previews as I thought it might be stale political satire, but the writers managed a fresh take on it. Time travel was a nifty way to play on the "nothing ever changes in politics" theme. A lot of good gags like the giraffe, Bender sucking in Leela's hair while gasping, and Nixon wishing for a squirrel's demise. Hedonism bot had a nice cameo here, too.

The only thing I'm going to take points off for is Travers being from Hawaii and born in Kenya. I thought that was pretty ham-fisted.  It only served to cause butthurt to those who see conspiracy whenever Obama is alluded to.

8/10

[Reply #151 on:]

Thinking about it, the "People will wait for something good..." line is almost like the Futurama staff giving us UK folk a message.

[Reply #152 on:]

liked this episode, though why didn't everyone in the future, go back in time, if they had access to the time code?  Great throwback to Bender's Big Score. 

[Reply #153 on:]

They probably knew how dangerous it could be, Travers says they found it after "careful research".

[Reply #154 on:]

Sure, if you call scrutinizing the contours of Fry's ass "careful research".

[Reply #155 on:]

I imagine it would take a lot of effort to find a Xeroxed copy of an "ancient" time code that could destroy the Universe in a future where humans live underground and robots have destroyed most of the surface. Ass or not.

[Reply #156 on:]

"Decision 3012"


Nixon and Bender's simultaneous 'AROOO!'


I was completely blown away by how hilarious and interesting the episode was. Everything worked and almost all of the jokes hit their intended mark. It was just a really entertaining episode. On paper this looked like such a bland, uninteresting story which I guess is why I was so impressed with how it turned out in the end.

As mentioned above, the jokes are this episodes strong point. Bender was on top form and along with Nixon, they provided many laughs throughout. I can't pick fault with the plot as it moved along at a great pace (with maybe the exception of the last couple minutes) and the plot twist of Travers being from the future was incredibly surprising. I don't think I could possible list all of the scenes and quotes I enjoyed but here are a few...


* The free beer opening with Bender jumping from the ship was hilarious
* "You got it ... right after these 800 people get it"
* "I'm running for reelection as president of Earth ... the greatest planet in the world!"

Nixon: "Excellent, now listen, we've gotta get some dirt on this Travers guy. Really McGovern him up! You know who McGovern was, right?"
Bender: "I don't even know who you are"

* The Giraffe break in
* The lion waiting for zebra's at the 'zebra entrance'


A definite contender for the best of the season and one of the funniest episodes of the shows run on Comedy Central. A true classic.


17/20 (A-)  

[Reply #157 on:]

Aaand how convenient that this ^ was the last review.  Yerp.  And I thought *The Bots and the Bees* was pretty delightful..  Just watched this, having been finally working my way through the last 4 episodes of last season and now the first three (so far) of this.  I absolutely loved it.  Hilarious.  It flowed, it made sense, I thought the pacing was perfect, none of it seemed forced, these:

For once a nice sci fi plot that's intelligent (as well as fitting well within the Futurama world) instead of simply outlandish. Many good laughs and barely any awkward jokes. No over-the-top romance, no superficial new characters that nobody needs.

I personally thought it worked well for the episode to start out political, then turn science-fiction and then have Bender describe it as 'Politics 101', as if the science-fiction was merely politics as well.

, characterization was spot-on, I didn't mind the ending, I didn't mind the beginning, I didn't mind the middle, I was laughing throughout, so on and so forth.  Nixon was used fantastically, Morbo was used fantastically, good Calculon cameo, Travers was great, noice little appearance from iZac..  Brilliant quips, gags n' jokes - the giraffe, the zebra entrance, the expression on the lion's face, the herd of night watchmen in the hospital, Nixon exhorting the squirrel, "I'm 40% wire", the smily face on the Harvard transcript, "I don't even know who you are!"..  Ohhh.  Capital.  (Politics, capitol, you know)  And there were no extraneous superfluous characters that did not need to be there.  Plus probably some other things!  I not only enjoyed this one, I actually felt, while I was watching it, that I genuinely WANTED to rewatch it / re-go-over parts of it.  Absolutely definitely reminiscent of A Head in the Polls, and felt like it could effortlessly have been a part of the original run.  To me this was easily the best episode since Prisoner of Benda.  (And I actually did enjoy most of them).   (To varying degrees).

You Ruth Bader believe it

[Reply #158 on:]

Funny...Blagovich to the max...

and with Social Media Skills...Oh, yes Jessie Jackson Jr.

[Reply #159 on:]

Hey, could this not apply at the end of this episode?

Except it just erases any trace of Travers, not the effects he had?