Bring on Season 7! - General Futurama Discussion

[Reply #760 on:]

I also remember David X. Cohen speaking rather loudly and positive about PI compared to Matt Groening who barely touched on the subject of PI.

[Reply #761 on:]

One more thing that bugs me about "Proposition Infinity," and then I swear I will stop talking about this episode and its (to me, multitudinous) flaws forever the foreseeable future:

I don't think Futurama demonised anyone in PI however, since the anti-robosexual antagonist was treated fairly sympathetically.

Farnsworth's sordid past as a spurned robosexual makes virtually no sense to me. It seems to contradict all we know about his past with Mom (arguably his One True Love or whatever, and an important player in much of his back-story), and it's revealed so clumsily. I know that Farnsworth is a forgetful guy, and I could understand him wanting to repress a bad and (to him) shameful memory, but still. Forgetting that Eunice/Unit 47 was a robot? It's such an ass-pull. (And then Amy's super-shrill "You hate robosexuals because your girlfriend left you for a robot?" is just too, uh, on-the-nose for my liking.)

Also: It bugs me that the writers use the established (albeit, tertiary) character of Preacherbot as a stand-in for the stereotypical closeted minister, because it renders his subsequent appearances on the show kind of strange or somehow tainted to me. Like, there's a part of me that's thinking, when I watch "Ghost in the Machines": How come you guys called that same guy who tried to break up Amy and Bender's relationship a few episodes ago to help you bust your ghost?

I think I would have found that pervy preacher angle a lot less annoying if they had brought in a new character for that purpose, instead of the Preacherbot. I know that wouldn't have made much sense from a storytelling point of view (why introduce a new robot preacher when you already have one?), but I would rather have a disposable homophobe who we see once in PI and then never hear from again, than one whose homophobia is emphasized in a single episode and then never referenced again (and also we're still supposed to think of this character as a credible-ish religious figure).

So, yeah. I still think you can make a pretty strong case against "Proposition Infinity" based solely on the hoops it makes the characters jump through. I still think the satire is iffy and the story is one that did not need to be told--but, again, these complaints are secondary to my annoyance at the back-story and personality traits imposed on existing characters for the sake of that iffy satire and unnecessary story. If that makes any sense.

[Reply #762 on:]

The satire is flat.  It is basically retelling the stories of homosexuals and their fight for rights (all the way back from the beginning of the 1960s-1970s) into 21 minutes where 'homosexual' is replaced with the word 'robosexual'.

And then a tagged on antagonist, because we need to but a 'face' on the enemy.

Is homosexual rights a topic not satireable?  I don't think so.  But this is certainly not the way.

"Proposition Infinity" is similar in many ways to "A Taste of Freedom".  They both carbon copy the real world events and replace a word.  From 'homosexual' to 'robosexual' and 'flag burning' to 'flag eating'.

In "A Taste of Freedom", the very same arguments against and for flag burning (and keeping it legal) are made.

But "A Taste of Freedom" works because rather than making character killing to create an antagonist, it uses the entire public as the antagonist, as well as the President.  It then makes a point about how it would be like to have no rights.

"A Taste of Freedom" is certainly not the best episode around, but it is far better at satire than "Proposition Infinity".

[Reply #763 on:]

Really?  The Professor has had a pretty colourful past in dating, since he's shacked up with the most evil woman on earth, a woman who looked like a garden shed made of fat, seems to have bisexual leanings, and has hinted a past as a male prostitute...

Plus he's obsessed with technology, so it doesn't seem too far a stretch to actually date a piece of technology.   I do agree with you on the Preacherbot thing, since he seemed like a fairly nice chap (for a Futurama character) up until that point. 

As for the satire, I always consider it secondary to PI.  I just appreciate it for the great jokes.  THe only part that bothers me is the clumsy reset button. 

[Reply #764 on:]

Like, there's a part of me that's thinking, when I watch "Ghost in the Machines": How come you guys called that same guy who tried to break up Amy and Bender's relationship a few episodes ago to help you bust your ghost?

Well..the Amy/Kif breakup really seems to bother you
A possible "minority rights struggle" might have been a pick on interracial couples instead on homo/robosexuals.
Playing after TMAR, with mutants allowed on the surface, but still being eyed sceptically...
Okay, it would have looked overobvious to chose Fry and Leela for that part, but as PI was not very subtle by itself...
That way, the established character constellations could habe been kept unchanged.

[Reply #765 on:]

The best way to satirise the homosexual rights struggle is to make a point of the fact that giving them their rights won't change the life of non-homosexual citizens.  Or affect them in any way.

[Reply #766 on:]

They did do that with the Gathering Storm advert.

Mind you Gathering Storm was so ridiculous, there was no need for a parody.  It's kind of like The Room or the Zelda CDI games in that regard.  It's like poking a cat's intestines, after the cat has already exploded. 

[Reply #767 on:]

I'm curious, I know South Park did a Gay Marriage! Episode, and what was their take on both sides of the fence?

I think they've done material on it a few times...but in particular I can think of one episode called "Follow That Egg!" where Mr. Garrison (well, really, Ms. Garrison since he was a woman during that season) tries to stop Mr. Slave and Big Gay Al from getting married by proving through this elaborate classroom experiment that same-sex partners couldn't raise a child together effectively (it's been a while, but I think he puts Stan and Kyle together as partners taking care of an egg for a week, and then quite literally tries to assassinate it). The whole thing is full of hypocrisy and colored by his own greed; the anti-gay side is not portrayed sympathetically at all compared to the Futurama episode, since Garrison is going to such ridiculous lengths despite being a (formerly) gay man himself to stop gay marriage, only because he doesn't want to see his ex marry someone else. At the end of the episode, gay marriage is legalized. Matt Stone and Trey Parker have also said repeatedly that they're for gay marriage and have a lot of gay friends, including some of their producing partners on Team America and South Park. And "Egg" is a great episode, by the way. It's also somewhat similar to a later episode if It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, in which Mac tries to stop his transgender ex from marrying another dude on the basis that he feels gay marriage is wrong, but really only because of his own greed.

Incidentally: people need to stop saying that South Park is balanced. It's not! Matt and Trey are centrists - or more accurately/specifically, libertarians - and this colors every episode that they make. South Park (which I love) is far, far preachier than any episode of Futurama, on a regular basis, with episodes often literally ending with a character giving a speech about whatever message we're supposed to take from the episode. It's only balanced insofar as they (often, not always) tend to structure episodes in a way that two sides are arguing over something and then one of the kids come forward at the end and says "actually, here's this middle-ground option"...but that in itself is a specific viewpoint, not just the creators trying to be balanced for the sake of it.

[Reply #768 on:]

Somehow, I remember a SF demonstration about the defeat of California Propisition 8.

[Reply #769 on:]

Maybe this time the producers, etc., could wait until after the season's over, before recording the commentary?

And maybe going back to three or four people in the room? I mean, when you have half the state of California introducing themselves, it takes too long.

And maybe they could run a contest ... Pick a PEELer to help with the commentary!

[Reply #770 on:]

I like having the huge room during the commentary, there's never any dead spots and everyone involved is really funny. At least even with the big room they manage to stay more or less on topic most of the time as opposed to latter-day Simpsons commentaries, yeesh. Maybe they could cut down on writers that didn't write the episode, but they definitely need to keep the voice actors

Also, since the episode hasn't aired yet, they can say what they really feel about it and not have to be either defensive or self-congratulatory depending on the reaction

[Reply #771 on:]

The best way to satirise the homosexual rights struggle is to make a point of the fact that giving them their rights won't change the life of non-homosexual citizens.  Or affect them in any way.

Yeah, that sounds like a real laugh riot.

[Reply #772 on:]

The best way to satirise the homosexual rights struggle is to make a point of the fact that giving them their rights won't change the life of non-homosexual citizens.  Or affect them in any way.

Yeah, that sounds like a real laugh riot.

You then make it funny.  And if you cannot, then you are a terrible satirist.

[Reply #773 on:]

"We're lesbians on the moon
We don't want your harpoon
But we'll rape your wife, destroy your life and sing our dykey tune..."

[Reply #774 on:]

You crack me up, SpaceFish!

[Reply #775 on:]

Of all the lesbians I've known, only one ever gave off an "I'd like to rape your girlfriend" vibe. She was fucking creepy. I think she'd have been a creepy heterosexual as well.

That said, moon lesbians would probably be pretty rough-and-ready. Y'know, grizzled pioneer types all covered in stubble would likely be the first folks to settle on the moon at all. So if there are lesbians among them, they'll be among the most likely lesbians to rape your wife, I suppose.

I have no idea what I originally thought the point of this post would be.

[Reply #776 on:]

I have no idea what I originally thought the point of this post would be.

To figure out what your plan of action is if you go to build your moon base and find that there are moon lesbians there already?

[Reply #777 on:]

I'll probably give them jobs on the castle-building team. I figure if anybody wants to do hard manual labour in space, it'll be the kind of lesbian who wants to rape your wife.

[Reply #778 on:]

I herewith decree that this thread may live until the start of Season 7.

[Reply #779 on:]

Hooray!

....also, I've decided that Reincarnation is the funniest episode ever. Now it's time for the internet to tell me I'm wrong. GO!

[Reply #780 on:]

You are correct.

Every time I re-watch the episode, I like it a little more. It was a pretty fantastic idea.

[Reply #781 on:]

I herewith decree that this thread may live until the start of Season 7.

By royal decree?!

[Reply #782 on:]

"We're lesbians on the moon
We don't want your harpoon
But we'll rape your wife, destroy your life and sing our dykey tune..."

What is a dykey tune? I just keep picturing a bunch of big-boned, short-haired women singing a medley from Lilith Fair.

Hooray!

....also, I've decided that Reincarnation is the funniest episode ever. Now it's time for the internet to tell me I'm wrong. GO!

No argument here. That episode is just twenty-two minutes of nonstop hilarity. I wouldn't say it's my favorite episode, if only because there are several other canon episodes that engage me on a more emotional level (which I like), but it's definitely the most unerringly brilliant thing the writers have done since the show came back.

It even trumps "The Late Philip J. Fry" in that respect, for me: yes, TLPFJ was a beautiful episode--and I would probably rank it a notch or two above "Reincarnation," for the aforementioned it's-canon-and-it's-incredibly-compelling reason--but to an extent it's kind of formulaic (it's the typical Futurama Tearjerker). "Reincarnation," on the other hand, takes a clever premise and just puts its all into convincing you that these are three versions of Futurama that could really exist in some kind of alternate universe. And, what's more, these three segments manage to be just as hilarious and engaging as their source material, which I think is pretty dang impressive.

[Reply #783 on:]

TLPJF is, I would argue a better episode in terms of general awesome. But I'd agree that Reincarnation is probably in the top three for laughs if not the funniest. Definitely the funniest of the new run so far.

[Reply #784 on:]

I always found the funniest (Canon) episode to be Amazon Women In The Mood. No need to explain why Snu-Snu is one of the best joke son the show.

Edit: Why am I so dumb this week? God, I can't think straight! I guess it was sort of a brain fart because I was thinking about Reincarnation. 

[Reply #785 on:]

Amazon Women in the Mood was canon...

[Reply #786 on:]

I used to really love "Amazon Women in the Mood"--but it's lost some of its appeal to me, the more I watch it, for reasons that I have boringly discussed in the past here. In any event, though, I think Bea Arthur is my favorite guest star ever. Her big "WHAT?!" when she learns that the men have been making fun of women's basketball gets me every damn time.

That said, I think that "The Problem With Popplers," "Parasites Lost," "Roswell That Ends Well," "Less Than Hero," "Teenage Mutant Leela's Hurdles," "Bend Her," and "Spanish Fry" are the funniest canon episodes. Maybe those choices seem arbitrary, but they are definitely the first ones that come to mind when I reflect on the hardest I have ever laughed at Futurama--and they also happen to be among my most oft-quoted episodes.

[Reply #787 on:]

Totally agree with most of your choices Gorky, but I'd also throw in "The Prisoner of Benda".

Also, you're a fan of "Less Than Hero"? That's good. I always thought I was the only one who liked it. It's got a good story, great jokes, and all-round bizarre silliness. I'd argue that's it's the silliest episode of the series, with only "That Darn Katz!" rivaling it.

[Reply #788 on:]

Totally agree with most of your choices Gorky, but I'd also throw in "The Prisoner of Benda".

^This:)
Whackyness for Whackyness sake, based on an extremely simple, but efficient plot
@Gorky>Besides...for you as a shipper, that episode should have some "milestone" character anyway

[Reply #789 on:]

I love Less than Hero too. The theme song and the piranhas are two of my favourite parts of the series. Then again I also like Lobstertainment and hate TLPJF and Luck.

[Reply #790 on:]

I like Lobstertainment and hate TLPJF and Luck.

Jesus Christ your taste sucks. You might wanna get that checked out.

[Reply #791 on:]

Replace "TLPJF" and  "Luck" with "Möbius Dick", and I will sign it
(Even taking the risk that Otis and Danny might disapprove... )

[Reply #792 on:]

I like Lobstertainment and hate TLPJF and Luck.

Jesus Christ your taste sucks. You might wanna get that checked out.

I could say the same thing.

[Reply #793 on:]

No, he's right. Your taste is terrible. I hate to say it, but it's true.

[Reply #794 on:]

"The Problem with Popplers" is hands down the funniest episode.

[Reply #795 on:]

I don't mean this in a trolly or flamey or otherwise offensive way, but is there any particular reason you're not fond of those two episodes, Welshy? I'm just curious.

On the subject of episodes that other people love but that I'm meh on: I've never really thought much of "Jurassic Bark." I like the flashbacks fine, but I'm more interested in the toll Fry's disappearance takes on his family, not his dog (which is why I've always preferred "The Luck of the Fryrish"). It's a perfectly amusing episode--and, yes, the ending in particular is very well-done--but I think it's kind of overrated.

[Reply #796 on:]

I... hate TLPJF.

You must be destroyed. I don't like the thought that you're out there, alive, and disliking TLPJF. If it's not the peak of what Futurama's achieved, it's damn close. I want you eradicated from the face of the universe, scoured from existence.

I shall handsomely reward the fellow who hurls Welshy into the sun.

[Reply #797 on:]

Late had VERY little humour and is just depressing the way it jumps through dystopic futures (the song doesn't help) and there wasnt' enough time to properly appreciate their plight, plus the emotional plot seemed like a poor forced attempt at replicating other better Fry and Leela stories. LotF was very fabricated/manatee`d- I mean, "7 leaf clover?" "brother stealing name?" So random. And on a lesser note, but still leaving a bad taste in my mouth, I didn`t appreciate the legitimate art form of bboying being mocked as a dorky eighties fad. Yes, I know that as a comedy Futurama makes fun of eveything, but breakers struggle to break that stereotype and a little accuracy would be appreciated. But I digress- my main beef is its nonsensical plot. I do enjoy the emotion of boths eps, but I need more than that.

[Reply #798 on:]

I shall handsomely reward the fellow who hurls Welshy into the sun.

Melllvar beat you to it.

[Reply #799 on:]

I don't trust people you use accent grave instead of apostrophes.