Thoughts on 6ACV19 - Ghost in the Machines - SPOILERS

[Reply #160 on:]

The last act was AWFUL! I don't think that I laughed (or even chuckled) once from the space port to the end. Did anyone find ANYTHING on the Amish planet funny? And please explain what exactly, and why.

I liked the Amish planet, mostly on the basis of how absurd the idea is.  Granted, this kind of thing isn't exactly new territory for Futurama (Obsoletely Fabulous and the Da Vinci episode come to mind), however.  It led to some sweet moments as Bender followed Fry around like a dog, even if Fry couldn't see him.  The joke about the Robot Devil stealing an Amish woman's clothes is a good one too.

I agree about the very end with the whole Heaven and Hell motifs.  I would've preferred if they would've just simplified it, as the whole "so-and-so gets kicked out of heaven" concept is a little overplayed by now in general.

[Reply #161 on:]

What frustrates me about these modern pop-culture jokes is the fact that it is established in The Lesser of Two Evils that 20th century history has been terribly distorted and/or unknown to the 31st century. Stop making these jokes! At least with the Susan Boyle joke it was a reference not a flat out point-and-laugh at a current trivial person, I still hated it but at least it wasn't Susan Boyle herself.

ding ding ding

[Reply #162 on:]

Perhaps people would take your arguments more seriously if you were to be less blunt. You seem to act like everybody else is obviously wrong with everything and that whatever you say is the obvious correct answer. Everybody has an opinion, and although we can get headstrong at times, it's best to take things civilly when in debate. I know that I've come in review threads before firmly defending something and wound up being persuaded to the other side by others' good debate.

I'm perfectly fine with the robot devil not talking about semen. Masturbation jokes are sometimes funny, but not everything should be a masturbation joke.

I dunno, I personally would love to see an entire episode of just masturbation jokes. It's an episode that I think would grow on people and really come to be climatic in their minds.


Also, I've noticed that the episode has 50% of voters thinking it's a 9/10, and 68% thinking it at 9 or 10/10. That's fairly impressive.

[Reply #163 on:]

Even if you manage to worm your way around all the conflicts with Lethal Inspection, there is still a major thematic flaw which renders Lethal Inspection utterly pointless.

If a robot ghost can inhabit functional machines, (even forcefully taking over ones inhabited by other robot souls), they could have just fixed his broken body and he'd have gone right back in. This is a universe with billions of robots, there is no way they haven't tried the approach of "fix the body or make a new body" a few times. And if all you have to do to get a robot back to life is fix it, there's no need for backup units.

edit - the idea of a robot soul being unknown is so preposterous that making an episode out of it is an insult to the intellect of this show's viewers. Much like how we're supposed to take Agent Smith's ability to duplicate himself as a seriously game-changing revelation in The Matrix movies. Computer files can be duplicated. This is stupid. In the same way, we should not bat an eye when told we have a world in which the idea of ghosts has existed for thousands of years, but nobody ever thought about machines having souls, and nobody has ever bothered to repair a broken machine?

Generally speaking, I agree with you.  They've devoided the impact of Bender's death ever becoming a reality with this episode and thus completely taken away most of the emotional investment we might have made with Lethal Inspection because the writers can retcon any of the characters back into existence at a whim.  This has been pretty true of the show since the beginning though....considering they live in the future where people don't die and you can attach a head onto somebody else's body.  Or clone them and place them in a jar... etc.

That said.... if we're on the page of nitpickings, we might as well make shit up while we're at it.  I'm going to suggest that robot ghosts don't pop up very often... say it's a glitch of some kind in the matrices systems used by the robot software.  It's by slight chance that Bender was able to turn into a robot ghost at all, and most people are not aware of robot ghosts or ways to fix them.... if they did, the crew probably would have tried to fix Bender's body so he could jump into that.  This also doesn't detract from the Robot Devil's offer because he is clearly a figure privy to information that other characters are not... including the logistics of robot ghosts.  This is even considering the fact that the Robot Devil occupies the same reality as all the other characters and doesn't technically possess any supernatural abilities himself.

[Reply #164 on:]

What frustrates me about these modern pop-culture jokes is the fact that it is established in The Lesser of Two Evils that 20th century history has been terribly distorted and/or unknown to the 31st century. Stop making these jokes! At least with the Susan Boyle joke it was a reference not a flat out point-and-laugh at a current trivial person, I still hated it but at least it wasn't Susan Boyle herself.

I agree with this and disagree with what TheMadCapper said because these jokes are becoming more and more readily used.  Furthermore, despite the remarks TMC made about how some things have survived, trivial details in history like "Obamacare" would be considered beyond obscure to anyone in the 31st century and not worth mentioning by even some of the most nerdiest history buffs whose only focus was our own time period.

I disagree with the Susan Boyle thing entirely too though.... despite not actually being a remark about the 20th/21st centuries, it's a reference that completely dates Futurama.  Plus, I don't like it at all, and it smells funny. 

[Reply #165 on:]

It's by slight chance that Bender was able to turn into a robot ghost at all, and most people are not aware of robot ghosts or ways to fix them.... if they did, the crew probably would have tried to fix Bender's body so he could jump into that.  This also doesn't detract from the Robot Devil's offer because he is clearly a figure privy to information that other characters are not.

So the argument is that people have tried to repair dead robots in the past and learned that it didn't work because generally there was no robot ghost waiting to re-enter? That more or less works for me.

Though honestly, Bender haunted a lot of machines, even granting them the power of flight. He could easily have communicated with the PE crew. Scraped a message into the conference room table, or taken over the speakers in the conference room, and that's just 2 obvious ways to do it in one room. Getting him a new/repaired body to re-enter would not have been hard.

Ghost was a touching episode, but there are flaws.

[Reply #166 on:]

"Religion is the opium of the poor." - Hemingway

So you take all your opinions from a violent alcoholic who committed suicide partly out of existential desperation because he didn't see a point in living in a Godless universe? I suppose you won't be posting for much longer unless Hell has a decent broadband network.

Otherwise you're making a cheap shot at religion in much the same as Aki did. The former would be something I could sympathise with whilst abhorring the concept of, yet the latter is simply pathetic.

Booring. Too much exaggeration; lighten up bubs. : P

"Religion is the opium of the poor." - Hemingway

When Aki dropped his insult it was out of the blue, and coming from someone I felt was above such behavior.

When you did it, it was right after a discussion of said behavior, and coming from a delivery boy with 79 posts. I have never interacted with you and you certainly have never done anything to earn any respect from me. You're not upsetting anyone, you're just outing yourself as a twerp and a troll. Not even a good one.

I must admit I am of two minds about your quote of Hemingway. He was a good writer and I've enjoyed his work. Not to mention the entire world knows his name. So there's that. Then again, he was deeply disturbed. He was a depressed lifelong uncontrolled alcoholic unable to maintain healthy relationships (4 marriages! Or was it just the women at fault?) and eventually got so sick of himself that he committed suicide. Not exactly who I'd consider the right guy to consult on matters of the spirit. Couldn't you have found somebody else to quote? Someone who didn't kill himself?

Nope, you stink. But seriously, I was just messing around, and even though you think I'm a troll (and a bad one for that matter!?), I still respect you! Try not to jump to such crazy conclusions "you...moron".

What frustrates me about these modern pop-culture jokes is the fact that it is established in The Lesser of Two Evils that 20th century history has been terribly distorted and/or unknown to the 31st century. Stop making these jokes! At least with the Susan Boyle joke it was a reference not a flat out point-and-laugh at a current trivial person, I still hated it but at least it wasn't Susan Boyle herself.

I'd have actually preferred a reference to Susan Boyle's head in a jar rather than a reference to a boil named Susan. Then it's more along the lines of I Dated a Robot rather than a means of getting a cheap laugh ("Oh I get it, it's a boil named Susan who sings and has a Scottish accent, just like Susan Boyle!")

[Reply #167 on:]

I disagree with the Susan Boyle thing entirely too though.... despite not actually being a remark about the 20th/21st centuries, it's a reference that completely dates Futurama.  Plus, I don't like it at all, and it smells funny.  

don't get me wrong. the susan boyle joke was terrrrrrrrrrrrrible. beyond terrible, actually.

[Reply #168 on:]

"Religion is the opium of the poor." - Hemingway

Also, I believe the quote is:

"Religion is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx

[Reply #169 on:]

Booring. Too much exaggeration; lighten up bubs. : P

Troll. Keep it up and I'll be talking to the moderation team.

[Reply #170 on:]

"Religion is the opium of the poor." - Hemingway

Also, I believe the quote is:

"Religion is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx

LOL you're right. It looks like Hemingway just copied that line: "Religion is the opium of the people...and music...and sexual intercourse...and bread [and Futurama] is the opium of the people."

Booring. Too much exaggeration; lighten up bubs. : P

Troll. Keep it up and I'll be talking to the moderation team.

Not trolling. You throw some hyperbole at me, I'm going to ignore it. If you'd like to discuss this stuff more though, feel free to PM me. 

[Reply #171 on:]

Svip - I wondered about that. That's what we get for assuming the troll knew what he was posting about.

Or maybe he did that on purpose. Which would strengthen the case that he's a troll.

[Reply #172 on:]

Perhaps futurefreak will be paying a visit to this thread soon. Perhaps, perhaps...

[Reply #173 on:]

Svip - I wondered about that. That's what we get for assuming the troll knew what he was posting about.

Or maybe he did that on purpose. Which would strengthen the case that he's a troll.

Damn right that's what you get.

I'm perfectly fine with the robot devil not talking about semen. Masturbation jokes are sometimes funny, but not everything should be a masturbation joke.

I dunno, I personally would love to see an entire episode of just masturbation jokes. It's an episode that I think would grow on people and really come to be climatic in their minds.

Based on Bender's little quips with Fry in Spanish Fry, I might actually agree with this.

Perhaps futurefreak will be paying a visit to this thread soon. Perhaps, perhaps...

I certainly hope not. I've already had a run in with her regarding misquoting. o_O

[Reply #174 on:]

Not trolling. You throw some hyperbole at me, I'm going to ignore it. If you'd like to discuss this stuff more though, feel free to PM me. 

Shame I didn't throw any hyperbole at you then, isn't it?

[Reply #175 on:]

Not trolling. You throw some hyperbole at me, I'm going to ignore it. If you'd like to discuss this stuff more though, feel free to PM me.  

Shame I didn't throw any hyperbole at you then, isn't it?

I'm ashamed for ever even suggesting it.

[Reply #176 on:]

Whatawut: No, Susan Boyle does not in any way deserve a head-in-the-jar. She is nowhere near the celebrity that Lucy Liu is, she is just a fad who has come and gone and will not be relevant to society within another year or so. I hated the amazement that surrounded her, just because she wasn't pretty everyone was just absolutely stunned that she had a great voice, therefore she is immediately a god among men. It's ridiculous her 'stardom' is based on the entire YouTube generation making stars out of anyone. Fuck Susan Boyle. [/rant]

[Reply #177 on:]

Whatawut: No, Susan Boyle does not in any way deserve a head-in-the-jar. She is nowhere near the celebrity that Lucy Liu is, she is just a fad who has come and gone and will not be relevant to society within another year or so. I hated the amazement that surrounded her, just because she wasn't pretty everyone was just absolutely stunned that she had a great voice, therefore she is immediately a god among men. It's ridiculous her 'stardom' is based on the entire YouTube generation making stars out of anyone. Fuck Susan Boyle. [/rant]

Amen brotha'. I'm just saying that personally, if an episode had to have Susan Boyle, I'd prefer a head-in-the-jar reference rather than a cheesy, drawn-out "pun" (if you could even call it that). 

[Reply #178 on:]

The point of part of the episode was not being funny. The last act of the episode is supposed to make you feel sad for Bender, because, now that he's realized how much he cherishes his relationship with Fry, he can't do anything to show Fry how much he meant to him.

Well, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED for the Amish planet not being funny, because I thought it was totally devoid of laughs.

Regardless, I doubt it was intentionally not-funny -- that would be a terrible idea. All of Futurama's most dramatic or touching episodes are filled with jokes, such as "The Luck of the Fryrish" and "Jurassic Bark". Even during the dramatic moments in those episodes, there were jokes, such as after Fry read the inscription on his dead nephew's gravestone, Bender stole the corpse's wallet and wedding ring.

And I understood that Bender felt remorse for haunting Fry and trying to scare him to death, but the third act conveyed that nearly as POORLY as it did the humour in the rest of the episode. Or maybe I was so bored and indifferent by the first and second act that I couldn't make the empathetic bridge in the third act. It's probably both. Regardless, it's the failure of the writer.

On the Robot Devil, I'm tempted to use the "That's the joke" image from The Simpsons. A running gag throughout the episode is the Robot Devil wanting to sing, which also teases the audience who the writers all know would love another Robot Devil musical episode. And, by the way, Hell Is Other Robots was written by Eric Kaplan, not Ken Keeler.

The supposed running gag of the Robot Devil not be allowing the sing, and defying the audience expections for it, if true, was a TERRIBLE idea. The slight chuckle I had when Bender squashed the Robot Devil's first song opportunity was undercut by the disappointment of not hearing how the "S.S. Anything Goes" was part of the song-that-wasn't. It was a really dumb and unfunny idea to exclude the musical numbers.

BTW, Eric Kaplan AND Ken Keeler wrote the lyrics to the song from Robot Hell. (Wikipedia does have its uses.)

And you know that you would be complaining now, possibly even moreso, if the Robot Devil had said, "My hands still smell of semen."

I rolled my eyes and didn't laugh at all at the candy corn line. Your line might be too on-the-nose. Maybe something more subtle like "My hands still smell like KY," or the Robot Devil shows that he has hairy robot palms because of Fry. I know it's not comedy gold, but I'm not a professional comedy writer. And I expect more from Futurama.

[Reply #179 on:]

   Speaking of how famous the Kardashians are, I had to google to find out who they are. The only thing I remember is that someone had a leaked porno tape.

Huh? Aren't the Kardashians a race/species from Deep Space 9?

No wonder I didn't get that joke.

[Reply #180 on:]

You're thinking of the Cardassians.

[Reply #181 on:]

Even if you manage to worm your way around all the conflicts with Lethal Inspection, there is still a major thematic flaw which renders Lethal Inspection utterly pointless.

Aww, cute! 

Look, he thinks it still has continuity.

[Reply #182 on:]

I cannot really see how this episode conflicts with "Lethal Inspection".

[Reply #183 on:]

Because people are easily confused, they think it does. Do I really need to produce an informational graphic?

[Reply #184 on:]

Only if it continues, I suppose.

[Reply #185 on:]

"Religion is the opium of the poor." - Hemingway

Also, I believe the quote is:

"Religion is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx

LOL you're right. It looks like Hemingway just copied that line: "Religion is the opium of the people...and music...and sexual intercourse...and bread [and Futurama] is the opium of the people."

Booring. Too much exaggeration; lighten up bubs. : P

Troll. Keep it up and I'll be talking to the moderation team.

Not trolling. You throw some hyperbole at me, I'm going to ignore it. If you'd like to discuss this stuff more though, feel free to PM me. 

I don't know if you're a troll or not, and I don't feel like reading through the whole thread to find out.  I doubt you're a troll, but this discussion on the ramifications and roots of religion can be better taken to a thread on religion in the Offtopic board.

[Reply #186 on:]

This'll have to do for now. I might produce something more detailed and professional looking once I'm done with this set of graphs I'm doing for an assignment. The bad kind of graphs, unfortunately. Maths coursework for my Data Handling module, involving lots of integration and differentiation.

Anyway...

[Reply #187 on:]

I think the Bender getting kicked out of Robot Heaven is a joke that detracts from the possibility of God as implicated by Godfellas.  I guess this Ghost episode just seeks to ruin everything.  Also, I read someone's post and they suggested that it would have been easy for Bender to let everyone know he was a ghost now.  I find this absolutely true, and it doesn't make sense that Bender doesn't do it.  I like Bender Ghost interacting with Fry, but the plot of this story is full of holes.

[Reply #188 on:]

I think the Bender getting kicked out of Robot Heaven is a joke that detracts from the possibility of God as implicated by Godfellas. 

The Robot God clearly only exists to allow robots in Limbo some sort of redemptive opportunity. He's not God per so. More like an adminstrator over the fates of the robotic conciousnesses trapped within the Cloud environment, having decided to kill themselves rather than live on via their backup capabilities.

[Reply #189 on:]

The robot ghosts in the Honking just had their regular bodies (yeah they were holograms, but still), but Bender has that Casper-like tail.

[Reply #190 on:]

And the Klingons from the Original Series just had their regular foreheads, but Worf has that ridge.


Also, you answered your own question by pointing out that the ghosts from The Honking were holograms.

[Reply #191 on:]

Also, there's the whole issue of dubious canonicity with that episode.

[Reply #192 on:]

I want to start off by saying I loved this episode! It felt like a traditional Futurama episode. It had great references to older episodes (Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings, Lethal Inspection).

I also enjoyed the concept of the Amish Homeworld. To me it felt like a pre-steampunk place. I also loved the Exorcist reference.

Overall I loved the episode so so so much. 10/10

[Reply #193 on:]

I think the Bender getting kicked out of Robot Heaven is a joke that detracts from the possibility of God as implicated by Godfellas. 

The Robot God clearly only exists to allow robots in Limbo some sort of redemptive opportunity. He's not God per so. More like an adminstrator over the fates of the robotic conciousnesses trapped within the Cloud environment, having decided to kill themselves rather than live on via their backup capabilities.

Certainly a possibility I'd considered.  Who is making all these eschelons of robot society?

[Reply #194 on:]

 

[Reply #195 on:]

The Paleontologist's girlfriend saying, Honey, I dig you.

Wife, even. And she's awesome!

[Reply #196 on:]

I found this episode to be highly enjoyable, and as I’d predicted it was most comical and fun to witness Bender posses various machines in which to haunt with. The parade was an alright start to the episode and set it up well. I liked that it introduced a new futuristic concept and I have no problem willingly accepting without question that Fry hasn’t heard of it before, after all, it’s Fry isn’t it?...

The Robot Devil was totally on form, it was a nice surprise to see him used again. I loved the joke about the song, and seeing the Robot Devil’s disappointment in being asked not to play it again for Bender...

I had a slight problem with Bender being so mean and ruthless in his quest to kill Fry. I know he’s a mean robot, but still. Thankfully he redeemed himself later on in the episode though. My favourite joke was Scruffy’s "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass" line and the graph going back up, that got a lol out of me. I wasn’t too keen on a Fry sleeping with the Mayors wife line though...

Although I wasn’t too keen on the Amish world, I also liked how it called back to the beginning of the episode; where instead of Fry saving the nerd from the spherical object rolling towards him; it was Bender who saved Fry from the spherical object rolling towards him. Nice way to tie the two events together...

I’m amazed after having read through this entire review thread that one thing has not been picked up on as it was a major gripe I had with this episode. The nurse advised Fry that "No machines are allowed" on the Amish home world and then not long after the crew come visit Fry, Leela has her electronic wrist thingamajigger on, the very same wrist thingamajigger that Bender had used earlier on in the episode to slap Fry with several times. This bothered greatly as it seemed like a major contradiction and an obvious continuity error. I think I’ll make a thread about this issue actually...

Another thing I don’t get is all this praise for the animation. It seemed quite average to me, sometimes below average, and on one occasion Fry and Leela were so badly off-model that it took my mind right out of the scene before the scene had really started. It has to be one of the worst drawings of Fry and Leela that I’ve seen on the show. It looked like something I would expect from the Futurama Comics. It was at 11:46 just after Fry had put the money into the Fortune-Teller machine. Didn’t anyone else notice this? Apparently no other review so far has mentioned this appallingly off-model abomination...

The ending did feel a bit rushed, and the wrap up all a bit too convenient, but I would say this episode was better than the two last week, and one of the better new eps...

8/10

What a total waste of the idea of robot ghosts that was introduced way back in The Howling.

Fail...

I mentioned in my original post about this episode, I thought this episode was the LEAST FUNNY and most uninspired and boring episode of Futurama EVER! Yes, WORSE than "That's Lobstertainment". Congratulations Patrick M. Verrone, you outdid yourself by writing the new WORST episode of Futurama (IMO).

Can you explain to me how this was worse than Holiday Craptacular? What was so much better about that episode? Or were you just high while watching that one?...

The Robot Devil was totally wasted in this episode. He didn't do anything particularly funny. The funniest thing involving the Robot Devil was the song-that-was't; particularly that background gag with the "S.S. Anything Goes". I really wanted to hear that song! (I think that the writer contrived that because he couldn't write a song anywhere as good as Ken Keeler's songs.) And the joke about the Robot Devil's hands smelling like candy corn because of Fry was unbelievably LAME. You'd think they'd go with a crude joke about masturbation or something -- but no, they went with a lame joke that would be considered tame by a pre-schooler.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The Robot Devil was used brilliantly, he had just the right amount of screen time, never outstayed his welcome, but was there long enough to help give the episode pace (although admittedly the pace went too fast at the end). I found his lines funny and fully in-character. I really don’t see the problem. He has proved my initial doubts wrong that he might’ve not worked so well as a recurring character. Time and time again he shines through as a quality character who it’s always a pleasure to see more of. He’s established himself as a major part of the Futurama universe and I would gladly partake in viewing more of his devious deeds and tomfoolery again...

The last act was AWFUL! I don't think that I laughed (or even chuckled) once from the space port to the end. Did anyone find ANYTHING on the Amish planet funny? And please explain what exactly, and why.

The Amish Planet wasn’t particularly funny I agree, but seeing how much Bender cared for Fry and basically redeeming himself in this act ultimately was what made it important and worthwhile. As I pointed out in my above review, I also liked how it called back to the beginning of the episode, where instead of Fry saving the nerd from the spherical object rolling towards him; it was Bender who saved Fry from the spherical object rolling towards him. Does that not to you redeem it somewhat?...

The resolution to this episode was painfully predictable and contrived. And the episode ended with the worst non-joke ever. There was no button! There was an excrutiating silence, then fade to black and roll credits. It was the worst ending of any Futurama episode I've ever seen!

Didn’t you watch The Cryonic Woman? What was so much better about the ending to that episode? I would really like to know. It’s fair to say that Ghost In The Machines had one of the poorer endings of the show, but it is by no means the worst...

There was virtually nothing in this episode that I enjoyed or considered funny. Sure, there were a few funny lines -- literally a few; as in three or four parts that I laughed in the span of 22 minutes. IMO this was the least funny episode of Futurama ever!

The strange thing is, despite that I consider this episode to be the most UNFUNNY and boring episode of Futurama EVER, I'm not as angry about it as I was about IAGDL or AotKA, which were two of my least favourite episodes from last season, and Futurama ever. Those episodes were really bad, but they still were funny; the reasons why I didn't like them was because the type of humour was clichéd or crude or out-dated, beating-a-dead-horse pop culture references. Whereas this episode wasn't funny at all -- and because of that I'm somehow less angry than I was about those episodes from last season.

If there ever was an episode that deserves to be discarded from my collection and forgotten about forever, it's this one. I'm seriously considering deleting it, because I can't imagine why I'd want to watch such an unfunny and boring episode ever again.

Are these really your opinions or are you just being a troll? If serious, then why do you watch Futurama?...

[Reply #197 on:]

I’m amazed after having read through this entire review thread that one thing has not been picked up on as it was a major gripe I had with this episode. The nurse advised Fry that "No machines are allowed" on the Amish home world and then not long after the crew come visit Fry, Leela has her electronic wrist thingamajigger on, the very same wrist thingamajigger that Bender had used earlier on in the episode to slap Fry with several times. This bothered greatly as it seemed like a major contradiction and an obvious continuity error. I think I’ll make a thread about this issue actually...

I didn't think of that. It could be explained, though, just by having Bender not think of it even though he could have used it.

Edit: The discussion of this started in the goofs thread where it's more proper.

[Reply #198 on:]

"Religion is the opium of the poor." - Hemingway

Also, I believe the quote is:

"Religion is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx

It's "Religion is the opiate of the masses" if we're being specific - it is Marx though.

[Reply #199 on:]

Depends on what translation you read, LorenzoDuke.