Thoughts on Season 6 - SPOILERS

[Reply #720 on:]

On the subject of Svip's 'wouldn't it be cool if...?' theory: Don't most episodes begin with the "wouldn't it be cool if...?" idea? E.g. wasn't Matt Groening's original idea for My Three Suns  "wouldn't it be neat, if we had a delivery boy in the future who— when he got to the planet, he drank the emperor"?

Sure, most ideas start in that some of scenario, but then you have to do it with a sort of elegance, where you start writing it as if it is for the show rather than for yourself.

Listen to the commentaries of old, there are many ideas they had to scrap because they did not work for the end show.  I fear that there are few ideas they had to scrap from the new episodes

That may well be so, I mean...
Every F***** episode in "The Simpsons" nowadays consists of every little joke they come up with. In the early seasons of the "Simpsons"... The staff had some great ideas that were cut.

The "commie detector" in RTEW would probably have been included today.

Offtopic: I'm blaming some certain people in the "Simpsons" production staff for the declining quality since season 10, One certain "show runner" and one writer (who's still active).

It feels like TMAR and Prop ∞ was filled with some "filler", even though TMAR was a lot funnier and wasn't entirely full of it. 

[Reply #721 on:]

I want to further emphasis the point with "My Three Suns", if you pay attention, Jezzem, they discuss how they had to do things a lot differently than originally planned, including both plot elements and moving it to episode 7.  I doubt any such scenario would have played out in the current season.

Remember how they were discussing a Barbados Slim musical episode in the commentary for "Bend Her", but it got cut despite their persistence (they worked on it for three days).  I have a feel this is not the same sense in the new production environment.

You may argue that the lesser time and the more episodes means they need to make more gambling than before.  And while this is a factor, it doesn't escape the fact that a lot of these ideas feels like something they wanted to do before they were even renewed.

[Reply #722 on:]

My main hang-up with (what we've seen so far of production) season six is that, like Svip says, there's something very self-indulgent in the writing. I mean, there's nothing wrong with writing to amuse yourself, but writing whole episodes around certain tertiary characters without really building upon those characters in a meaningful way just doesn't work. ("Lrrreconcilable Differences" suffers from this: the writers really like Lrrr, so they contrive this stupid, sitcom-ish story and dump Lrrr in it; the premise is uninspired, so the episode is ultimately mediocre.) I agree with you, Svip, that it may well be "fan fiction syndrome."

I'm also not particularly fond of the new pairings we got this season. "The Duh-Vinci Code" and "Lethal Inspection" were compelling because they explored the dynamics of a relationship that was underutilized in the original run and taught us new things about the characters (Farnsworth likes Da Vinci and loathes Fry's stupidity; Hermes used to work for Mom and he once saved Bender's life); "That Darn Katz" and "A Clockwork Origin" just seemed contrived.

I missed episodes that focused on just Fry and Leela and Bender. I mean, the entire PE crew is interesting, and I like that they are a weird sort of family, but the three main characters are obviously the most compelling, and their dynamic is always interesting to me. I respect the writers for trying new things, but I miss episodes where Fry or Leela or Bender (either separately or as a duo/trio) were the focus and the rest of the PE crew kind of orbited their main story. I mean, that's the basic construction of "The Sting" or "The Day the Earth Stood Stupid" or "Godfellas", which are some of the most brilliant episodes of the original run.

It's not that I'm against episodes where the crew functions as an ensemble, where everyone has a story ("300 Big Boys", "Teenage Mutant Leela's Hurdles", "The Farnsworth Parabox"). I mean, "The Prisoner of Benda" works; it's madcap and it utilizes all the characters brilliantly, ensemble-style. But "The Late Philip J. Fry", which is essentially a Fry/Leela story around which Bender, Farnsworth, and the remainder of the PE crew revolve, works just as well. The most gripping stories, to me, are always those that focus on one of the three main characters (the exception to that this season was "Lethal Inspection", which fleshed out Hermes's character in a really nice way), and I think the writers need to return to that more frequently than they did in these new episodes.

[Reply #723 on:]

I can't argue against the argument that the overall "feel" of the production is different to the original series (mostly because the original series finish 7 years ago), and it's obvious with the movies that there was a lot of stuff put in for the writers (although I'd still argue that Into the Wild Green Yonder was very much written for the fans) but I feel as though the new episodes have less of the "fan fiction fatigue syndrome thingy" feel than the movies did.

[Reply #724 on:]

Oh, I agree, Jezzem.  The new season is better than the films.  I find it was almost as if the film format to them seemed like a sandbox format, where they could do anything, even stupid shit no one really wanted.  Bender's Game is a brilliant example of this.  I bet it started with the idea of making a 'fantasy film'.  Then Lord of the Rings would be the most obvious choice to parody.

'Okay, so how do we get here?  Can't just start in a fantasy setting.'  Though, I would have accepted such a premise more than what happens in the film.  In fact, they should have brought out the What-If machine in the film instead.

So they probably want to make another crack at the fuel crisis (in addition to Al Gore's joke in BBS), and surround a plot around it.  And this plot actually works, but the only purpose of this plot is so we can get to the fantasy setting.  And that's why it bothers me and so many other people so much.

You may call it the FFF syndrome for short, but the new episodes had more hits than the films.  And yeah, I got the idea that the second and third films were definitely written for the writers, while sure the first and last had some of that, they were more obviously written for the fans.

But that is also dangerous, actually.  Because then you try to assume what fans want, and you might try to think like a fan, and then you are not going to give the fans what they actually want.  It's a tricky balance.

[Reply #725 on:]

But Jezzem, he means that there are other season six episodes that are worse than "The Prisoner of Benda," making them in turn even worse than that episode's relative badness compared to the original "worst."

In other words, although he's saying that "The Prisoner of Benda" is worse than what he claimed to be his worst episode (as you noted), it is not the new worst because there are other season six episodes he'd rank even lower.

...Exactly!
Benda felt off like the rest of the season to me, though it was indeed more clever than many original episodes. Like I say I'll watch it again; I may be being too harsh on that one.

I pretty much agree with Svip and Gorky. Shit like the eye-phone or the cast visiting comic-con or.... *shudder* the singing boil... are fun ideas, but all shoulda been left on the cutting room floor - so to speak.
The pacing was really off in episodes like A Clockwork Origin which just felt cramped... and other episodes just weren't funny.

Anyway...

[Reply #726 on:]

But Jezzem, he means that there are other season six episodes that are worse than "The Prisoner of Benda," making them in turn even worse than that episode's relative badness compared to the original "worst."

In other words, although he's saying that "The Prisoner of Benda" is worse than what he claimed to be his worst episode (as you noted), it is not the new worst because there are other season six episodes he'd rank even lower.

...Exactly!
Benda felt off like the rest of the season to me, though it was indeed more clever than many original episodes. Like I say I'll watch it again; I may be being too harsh on that one.

I pretty much agree with Svip and Gorky. Shit like the eye-phone or the cast visiting comic-con or.... *shudder* the singing boil... are fun ideas, but all shoulda been left on the cutting room floor - so to speak.
The pacing was really off in episodes like A Clockwork Origin which just felt cramped... and other episodes just weren't funny.

Anyway...

Once again; YES!

Waitwaitwait...   Are you sayin' that "A Clockwork (Edit:) Origin" isn't good, CURSE YOU TO HELL!
But remember what Mr. Cohen said about the "eye-phones", Mr. Verrone did probably write the "Boil" and the other gags about 7 months ago. When it was going into animation. Susan Boyle was a bit more "in" then. Otherwise than that, You're actually quite right. More Edits: Yeah, "A Clockwork Orange" is pretty different from "A Clockwork Origin"

[Reply #727 on:]

What the hell does "A Clockwork Orange" have to do with "A Clockwork Origin" other than the fact that the latter is a parody of the formers name?

Also, the point of your post seems to be "GreyThinkyWhale, those episodes you mentioned aren't as bad as you said but I completely agree with you." Stop not making sense!

[Reply #728 on:]

haha

I agree with the ending of a Clockwork Origin. So at the end I was like ya... I've thought about these possibilities before... I agree with this ending....

But the rest of that episode wasn't so good. The robots evolving overnight made no sense and felt really rushed after spending way too much time arguing with a talking monkey. And I thought it was lame - there were some funny moments... but not up there with Where the Buggalo Roam.

Also I haven't seen A Clockwork Orange yet. I plan to whenever I get a chance.

[Reply #729 on:]

A Clockwork Origin was a fantastic episode.

Where the Buggalo Roam was an awful episode.

A Clockwork Orange is the greatest film ever made.

[Reply #730 on:]

A Clockwork Origin was a fantastic episode.

Where the Buggalo Roam was an awful episode.

A Clockwork Orange is the greatest film ever made.

Naaaahh... Dunno 'bout that. 

[Reply #731 on:]

After rewatching this season, I came to the concluion that it wasn't a bad one In fact it's probably one of the best! just the begining felt strange...

[Reply #732 on:]

After rewatching this season, I came to the concluion that it wasn't a bad one In fact it's probably one of the best! just the begining felt strange...

oh my, yes. very strange.

[Reply #733 on:]

the beginning four episodes were at the level of the comics, which is acceptable in comic for, but not accepted in episodic form. futurama has always had excellent plots, and those just didn't. the same goes for 'bender's game'. the plots seem to be uncrafted and forced for convenience. the rest of the season was good, imo; and even had some amazingly crafted episodes(tlpjf & aco, imo).

i really do look forward to the second half of the season, in hopes that the quality retains and hopefully betters.

south park has really tanked and lost their steam this season. i don't think this will happen yet to futurama.

[Reply #734 on:]

1. Rebirth was one of the better episodes of the season.

2. South Park's 14th season has been a really pleasant surprise. It's absolutely MILES better than season 13 and God forbid, season 12. I thought the show has lost it forever with those, but '200' was an outstanding episode and 'Medical Fried Chicken', '201' and 'Insheeption' were all great too.

[Reply #735 on:]

14 season of South Park > 6th season of Futurama

You can all burn me at the stake....  now!

[Reply #736 on:]

I highly enjoyed season six so far, although there were a few WTF? moments.  (More WTF than usual for Futurama, I mean.)  I am really excited for the DVD to come out so I can listen to the commentaries, because they tend to put things into context.  I am eagerly awaiting some answers as to why some questionable elements made it into the show.  (That is if they aren't off on some tangent that has a 5% relation to the episode.  Damn them and their hilarious but frustrating digressions!)

[Reply #737 on:]

As much as I've enjoyed Season Six thus far, I'm debating watching the second half. I'm debating buying the DVD's. I would actually be perfectly happy if Futurama were to finish, and the money that's being used to make it were to go into the budget for The Venture Bros at this point.

[Reply #738 on:]

How would that happen?

[Reply #739 on:]

How would that happen?

Yeah. How? (Also, I'm not too sure I'd make that decision.)

[Reply #740 on:]

I would actually be perfectly happy if Futurama were to finish,

I wouldn't.

[Reply #741 on:]

What bothers me the most is this:  When a long cancelled TV Show comes back on the air, a lot of people complain and try to find some kind of fault with it.  Just like some people do about season six.  I loved season six and enjoyed it.  Season 7 will be even better.  There were only two episodes I didn't like out of the whole bunch.  Why can't people just be happy?  Why do people always have this deep-seated need to complain and find fault with a TV show that made a comeback? 

If this topic gets locked, I'll understand and want to apologize.

[Reply #742 on:]

+999 finally someone intelligent

[Reply #743 on:]

When a long cancelled TV Show comes back on the air, a lot of people complain and try to find some kind of fault with it.

You mean like when they claim that one of the characters is being treated poorly everytime something bad happens to them?

+999 finally someone intelligent

No. There's a good point in KurtPikachu's post, but not intelligence.

[Reply #744 on:]

What bothers me the most is this:  When a long cancelled TV Show comes back on the air, a lot of people complain and try to find some kind of fault with it.  Just like some people do about season six.  I loved season six and enjoyed it.  Season 7 will be even better.  There were only two episodes I didn't like out of the whole bunch.  Why can't people just be happy?  Why do people always have this deep-seated need to complain and find fault with a TV show that made a comeback?  

That's what you work with if you're a critic, if there something good in the thing they're judging... don't bother to mention. If it's something that you can't stop thinking about, that ruins the whole thing, (like "Susan Boil") Don't stop calling it "stupid" and misplaced. Also, a lot of movies got mediocre reviews when it was released, but has been "praised" (ugh, hate that word) afterwards. (like when the director dies.)

[Reply #745 on:]

I judged season six harshly at first, mostly (after realizing in hindsight) because I had built up unreasonable expectations and had read many poor reviews online.  I didn't have an open mind.  I now enjoy it very much.  I made the same mistake with season five too.  It is among my favorites, actually.  I love Bender's Game.  Yeah, I said it.

On the Susan Boil note - I think that the joke was in poor taste.  However, Futurama has taught me (among other things), that there is humor to be found in anything.

[Reply #746 on:]

I judged season six harshly at first, mostly (after realizing in hindsight) because I had built up unreasonable expectations and had read many poor reviews online.  I didn't have an open mind.  I now enjoy it very much.  I made the same mistake with season five too.  It is among my favorites, actually.  I love Bender's Game.  Yeah, I said it.

On the Susan Boil note - I think that the joke was in poor taste.  However, Futurama has taught me (among other things), that there is humor to be found in anything.

Hell Yeah! It's true that there's always a background in the stories, Susan Boyle was "in" when 6ACV03 was scripted. I live in Sweden, so I'd have to watch them online (or etc.). If you base your opinion on reviews, you'll never appreciate the episodes fully. I'm not watching any review of the "holiday episode" before I've seen it.

(I do actually really like the movies, not the same as the series. But not always for the worse.)

[Reply #747 on:]

What bothers me the most is this:  When a long cancelled TV Show comes back on the air, a lot of people complain and try to find some kind of fault with it.  Just like some people do about season six.  I loved season six and enjoyed it.  Season 7 will be even better.  There were only two episodes I didn't like out of the whole bunch.  Why can't people just be happy?  Why do people always have this deep-seated need to complain and find fault with a TV show that made a comeback?

Au contraire. I wanted to like it. And in fact I quite liked the movies. And I liked a few of the episodes. But there's something off about the humour. After I watched Beast with a Billion Backs, I watched the "Lost" video game episode in the DVD special features. And the difference was night-and-day. Call it joke-quality-control. Maybe it's what I was hearing about on my Frasier DVD special features about having to throw away a lot of funny stuff because it wasn't true to the characters - they let slip there - fan-fiction fatigue as Svip was saying. Maybe it's the satirical direction of the show (see Gathering Storm advertisement in Proposition Infinity) that makes it dated before it airs. Whatever it is, there's something distinctly different about the writing in the original episodes - including the "lost" episode, and the newer stuff.

I'm not trying to be a downer. If you love it, great. More power to you.

I'm not trying my hardest to find fault. I'm just trying to give my honest opinion, which, heaven forbid, isn't entirely positive.

[Reply #748 on:]

What bothers me the most is this:  When a long cancelled TV Show comes back on the air, a lot of people complain and try to find some kind of fault with it.  Just like some people do about season six.  I loved season six and enjoyed it.  Season 7 will be even better.  There were only two episodes I didn't like out of the whole bunch.  Why can't people just be happy?  Why do people always have this deep-seated need to complain and find fault with a TV show that made a comeback?

Au contraire. I wanted to like it. And in fact I quite liked the movies. And I liked a few of the episodes. But there's something off about the humour. After I watched Beast with a Billion Backs, I watched the "Lost" video game episode in the DVD special features. And the difference was night-and-day. Call it joke-quality-control. Maybe it's what I was hearing about on my Frasier DVD special features about having to throw away a lot of funny stuff because it wasn't true to the characters - they let slip there - fan-fiction fatigue as Svip was saying. Maybe it's the satirical direction of the show (see Gathering Storm advertisement in Proposition Infinity) that makes it dated before it airs. Whatever it is, there's something distinctly different about the writing in the original episodes - including the "lost" episode, and the newer stuff.

I'm not trying to be a downer. If you love it, great. More power to you.

I'm not trying my hardest to find fault. I'm just trying to give my honest opinion, which, heaven forbid, isn't entirely positive.

it's getting better. i have a feeling that the 13 new episodes airing next year will be not only be way better than the first 13 episodes of season 6, but as good as the first run.

[Reply #749 on:]

Maybe it's the satirical direction of the show (see Gathering Storm advertisement in Proposition Infinity) that makes it dated before it airs.

Whatever is different about the writing, it's not the satirical direction of the show, because that's something that's always been part of the show even in the original run.

[Reply #750 on:]

Jezzem, the most obvious thing about the new episodes are their topical-ness.  Similar to Jar Jar Binks in the Star Wars prequels, who was the most obvious thing that people would point fingers at for their distrust with the prequels, when in fact, he was the most believeable and full character in the prequels.  Similar the topicalness is actually, for the most part, the thing that makes most sense about these episodes, but it is rather their execution that is terrible.

Yes, I will bring up the Star Wars prequels all time I get the chance, because they are terrible.

[Reply #751 on:]

That was my point, the topical-ness is nothing new, it's just been executed differently in the more topical episodes of the new season.

[Reply #752 on:]

Tonight, Comedy Central is airing "XMAS Story", "A Tale of Two Santas" and the new Holiday episode back to back to back.  REALLY looking forward to this...

[Reply #753 on:]

Well, it's that time again for me to update my Season 6 rankings:

1. The Late Philip J. Fry
2. The Prisoner Of Benda
3. Lethal Inspection
4. Rebirth
5. The Mutants Are Revolting
6. A Clockwork Origin
7. The Duh-Vinci Code
8. Proposition Infinity
9. In-A-Gadda-Da-Leela
10. Lrrreconcilable Ndndifferences
11. The Futurama Holiday Spectacular
12. That Darn Katz!
13. Attack Of The Killer App

Quick summary update on my scores:

9.0-10.0 = 4 episodes
8.5-8.9 = 4 episodes
8.0-8.4 = 2 episodes
7.0-7.9 = 3 episodes

So, is that all the Futurama we're getting this year, or is there going to be one more or something? Otherwise, I think quality-wise it's fairing better than Family Guy's season 4.

[Reply #754 on:]

Not this year, no.

[Reply #755 on:]

Anybody like this as much as some of the old seasons? I don't. The next season will hopefully be better. But I don't think it will be. I think Futurama's slowly dying.

[Reply #756 on:]

Yeah. I think I prefer season 6 to seasons 1 and 2 actually although it's not a patch on seasons 3 or 4.

[Reply #757 on:]

Yeah. I think I prefer season 6 to seasons 1 and 2 actually although it's not a patch on seasons 3 or 4.

why? it's nowhere near as good as seasons 1 and 2.

[Reply #758 on:]

Apparently they are to him.  And while I cannot think of a subpar episode in season 1, the season has no episodes that really stand out.  The only two possible choices for such a position is "Love's Labours Lost in Space" and "Hell Is Other Robots".  But they are - to me at least - nowhere near as clever or funny as some later episodes, such as "Roswell that Ends Well" or "The Problem with Popplers".

Season 1 is a good solid season.  It's hard to complain about it - for me at least.  It would not be from season 2 and onward that seasons began to have subpar episodes.  I may be alone in this, but I hate the end of "I Second that Emotion", I always skip past it.

[Reply #759 on:]

Season 1 was for me some really good episodes, "A Fishful of Dollars", "When Aliens Attack", "Hell Is Other Robots", etc.
But, I'd say that some episodes were somewhat "sub-par", and those were "My Three Suns" and "Fry and the Slurm Factory".
Season 1 was pretty consistent.