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Author Topic:   Bender's Big Score Time Para-fauxes (spoilers)
Frida Waterfall

Bending Unit

00009095

Since: May 2007

posted 02-12-2008 18:50

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I simply do not understand the concept.

Here's the scene:
1. Fry is frozen in 2000.
2. Fry of 3007 travels back to 2000. This Fry will be called Fry*.
3. Fry* freezes a self-destructing Bender.
4? It can be assumed (to keep it canonical with the timeline) that during this time, Fry* meets Fry' (Fry' is the Fry* of an hour later)
5. Fry* takes the elevator in the cryogenic lab and goes to Panucci's Pizza for pizza, but returns to the cryogenic lab and travels back an hour before, where he becomes Fry'.
6. Fry' briefly meets Fry*. Later, he accidentally freezes himself again when trying to get money from the original Fry.

How was the Fry who becomes Lars created? I can't see how if we only follow one timeline. Was Lars a timeline glitch?

I believe the timesphere is a dangerous tool to transport you back to the past that allows the user to corrupt the past. There is this theory of mine on time that you're probably going to have a difficult time understanding because I don't know how to explain it well in words or it makes no sense whatsoever.

Let me present it in an example. Let's say Bender went back in time to 1505 when the Mona Lisa was still being painted by Da Vinci. He steals the portrait and kills Da Vinci. Bender waits in the limestone cavern back at the Planet Express Building and waits the next 15 centuries out. He leaves the cavern on his cue. He returns to time, unaffected by what he did, but once it becomes 3008, the changes that he made come into effect.

Now, here's it in the best analogy/ies I could think of. Think of the timeline as a string still being made. There's a beginning, but yet it is still in the works and there hasn't been an end made. There is constantly more inches being spooled onto the end. A constant point is right where the wool is spooled into spring is the present. Like the present, it never stays at the same part of the string because there's always a newer end of the string being made.

Now, here's a new analogy to add to that. A change in time is like a wave. It starts out in the middle of the ocean (go along with it, please) and the water in front of it hasn't had that wave go through it yet. The water behind the wave the the past of where that event occurred. That wave travels to the shore. The water that it passes is changed from that wave. As it goes to the shore, the wave grows to something bigger. That is because as different times in the past change, the changes in the future are much more drastic. The shore is like the present. It takes some time for that wave to hit the shore, but when it does, major changes are done. Do you understand?

What I'm trying to say is that it takes time for a change to go into effect into the timeline, but when it does, the effects are devastating.

I don't know if this would help or hurt the timetravel in "Bender's Big Score". My brain's fried from just writing it...

[This message has been edited by Frida Waterfall (edited 02-12-2008).]


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futz
Professor

00006229

Since: Apr 2005

posted 02-12-2008 19:40

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Well what with free will and all...

The split is when Fry is at Pannuci's, the timelines match until the Frys make their choice on what to do next. Fry* returns to the Lab, Fry' just goes up to his new quarters. If Fry' had repeated what Fry* did then he wouldn't have be come a duplicate, just a repeating loop.


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Frida Waterfall

Bending Unit

00009095

Since: May 2007

posted 02-12-2008 19:53

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So Fry* after being visited by Fry' screwed up the timeline (along with the hundreds of Benders that were convinced to wait longer before coming up to the surface)...

Wait, then how would there be two different Frys visiting Panucci's that night? Wouldn't there have to be a totally different timeline involved? (My brain's still fried, and I still don't understand).

[This message has been edited by Frida Waterfall (edited 02-12-2008).]


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futz
Professor

00006229

Since: Apr 2005

posted 02-12-2008 21:19

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It was the choice of Fry' opting for a room first and not pizza.

Some Quantum theories would call it 2 realities - more like Paraboxes rather than timelines. The choice Fry' made spawned a new reality or universe with it's own timeline. Which is perfectly acceptable in some Quantum theories, an infinite number may also be acceptable.

BBS sticks to a theory that there is only one "true" timeline, ultimately squishing out any paradoxes and ultimately Fry'.


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bend_her

Starship Captain

00009239

Since: Jun 2007

posted 02-13-2008 11:14

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quote:
Originally posted by futz:
The split is when Fry is at Pannuci's, the timelines match until the Frys make their choice on what to do next.

I think the split occurs when Fry meets Fry' in the cryogenics lab. That's what causes Fry' to get delayed a little, which makes him get back to Panucci's just after Mr. Panucci has already tossed the pizza slice into the trash.

BTW, I like Fry' (Fry prime) better than Fry* (Fry conjugate sounds a bit... awkward!)


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NastyInThePasty

Bending Unit

00009920

Since: Jan 2008

posted 02-13-2008 11:30

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Yeah, but if Fry' doesn't go back an hour for the pizza, then there can't be Fry*. Unless he goes back, the temporal loop is broken. It's like, in the original Terminator, if Sarah told John Connor that Kyle Reese was his father, and John didn't send him back to 1984, then John could have never been born. It's something that has to happen.


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Zamorano

Crustacean

00006867

Since: Sep 2005

posted 03-08-2008 10:36

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Could all of this time travel confusion be simply explained by the paradox-free time travel from the time sphere? Therefore all the episodes like Fryish, Jurassic etc are not retconned as the time sphere did not alter events?

Also, I like to know where did the original tattoo come from? There must be a starting point?

And why do ppl keep on referencing Devils Hands?


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futz
Professor

00006229

Since: Apr 2005

posted 03-08-2008 11:35

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Origin of the tatoo? You'll have to search back in the messages (manual time travel) to about a week or so after the release of BBS. You'll find Xanfor deciphered the time code then which points to the origin of the tatoo.


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SpaceCase

Professor

00002250

Since: Feb 2003

posted 03-08-2008 17:40

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quote:
Originally posted by Zamorano:
Also, I like to know where did the original tattoo come from? There must be a starting point?
I seem to recall we had a similar discussion about Fry's Y chromosome.
I'm under the impression both arose as an artifact of time-travel. That is, effects without causes.
quote:
Originally posted by Zamorano:
And why do ppl keep on referencing Devils Hands?
As I understand it, BBS ignores the implied results between Fry & Leela. Other members of this forum have already explained this better and in greater depth than I.
quote:
Originally posted by futz:
Origin of the tatoo? You'll have to search back in the messages (manual time travel) to about a week or so after the release of BBS. You'll find Xanfor deciphered the time code then which points to the origin of the tatoo.

I'm not remembering this.
Could you post a link?

[This message has been edited by SpaceCase (edited 03-09-2008).]


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futz
Professor

00006229

Since: Apr 2005

posted 03-09-2008 07:06

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http://www.peelified.com/cgi-bin/Futurama/11-001240/

Starts about 1/2 way down page 1.


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soylentOrange

Liquid Emperor

00006975

Since: Sep 2005

posted 04-04-2008 22:14

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In that scene from BBS where Bender steals the Mona Lisa, Bender holds the unfinished painting up so that Leela's upper body is hidden. The perspective is such that Leela's lower half looks like an extension of the painting. Every time I watch the movie I feel like there's a subtle hint here, thought of what I don't have any idea. Is there a joke hear that I'm missing, or am I making connections where they don't exist again?

Here's what I'm talking about:

So, am I nuts?


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futz
Professor

00006229

Since: Apr 2005

posted 04-05-2008 00:16

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Although the Mona Lisa is the subject of a lot of theories put forth by Art History graduate students (she's a man, she's actually a DaVinci self portrait, if you hold half of it up to a mirror it's actually Keith Richards, etc.) I can't think of any that fit such a scene. It's more like Leela being upstaged by "normal" beauty. Somewhat odd for that with all four hands showing/scale difference too.

Compare to the straight-forward joke with Boticelli's "Birth of Venus" in "A Cyclops Built for Two".

So other than Nibbler staring at Bender's crotch plate, I'd say no.


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Frisco17

Liquid Emperor

00006783

Since: Aug 2005

posted 04-05-2008 21:51

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Yeah, I think it's just that Leela happened to be standing behind where the painting would be.


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Seymour_My_Hero

Bending Unit

00010029

Since: Mar 2008

posted 04-06-2008 12:54

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Maybe it means that Bender is good at aligning people's bodies to paintings!


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km73

Starship Captain

00009403

Since: Aug 2007

posted 04-06-2008 19:58

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Well, this is a huuuge stretch, but given that the Mona Lisa is probably the most debated painting in history, maybe that scene was thrown in there to also..cause debate.
Most likely not, though.


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x.Bianca.x

Bending Unit

00009991

Since: Mar 2008

posted 04-09-2008 02:40

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Hey, if nibbler 'ate' himself at the end of BBS, does that mean there will be no more nibbler? I love nibbler!


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Frisco17

Liquid Emperor

00006783

Since: Aug 2005

posted 04-09-2008 22:05

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He'll probably be back. I think that's just his species' way of escaping the universe.

None of what I just said makes any sense.


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x.Bianca.x

Bending Unit

00009991

Since: Mar 2008

posted 04-10-2008 04:07

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yes HIS species!...
So how does the african species of elephant escape the universe? lol


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hobbitboy

Delivery Boy

00007367

Since: Jan 2006

posted 04-10-2008 06:45

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Eat each other?


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limegreenaffair

Crustacean

00009757

Since: Dec 2007

posted 04-19-2008 22:17

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quote:
Originally posted by boingo2000:
Another question that just occoured to me:

Spoilers ahead! Highlight to read.
We have two Frys frozen in one cryo-tube. One of those Frys defroze on Dec. 31st, 2999, and in the film we see the second Fry step into that same cryo-tube and set it for 7.95 years. BUT, in Space Pilot 3000, Leela accidently leaps into that same cryo-tube (which Fry left open) and the dial sets itself to 1000 years, which Fry changes to 5 minutes. How could Leela fall into the open, unset cryo-tube when Fry2 has already set it?

Man, that question was hard to word so it'd make sense.


But Lars Fry froze himself in Michelle's (I think that was Fry's ex's name...) tube so both Fry1 and Fry2 were out of the tube when Leela was frozen.


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limegreenaffair

Crustacean

00009757

Since: Dec 2007

posted 04-19-2008 22:26

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@Soylent Orange: Hmm... I don't rightly know. Maybe just a dumb joke like the Mona Leela or I dunno.
It was a really neat thing to pick up on though, and it may indeed have some relevance later on although I can't be certain and therefore will just go with "you're nuts."


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