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Author Topic: For the writers out there...  (Read 11119 times)
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MuscaDomestica

Professor
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« on: 10-03-2003 14:36 »

How do you guys write everyday. That is my biggest problem with writing something that was repeated in every single writing class I ever took. Anyone have tips?
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #1 on: 10-03-2003 14:38 »

I find it a sort of phase for me, sometimes I could fill page after page with writing, but other times I can barely write a sentence.

Just practice, write what you're thinking, shape it into a story or poem or essay or whatever you want. Practice DOES work.
Killerfox

Professor
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« Reply #2 on: 10-03-2003 14:43 »

mhhh im not a very good writer but i do ok, my tip would be:
first have ideas, you cant write without ideas
then give them a "shape" like AF said
after a few paragraphs read what you have written and watch out for mistakes or things that doesnt suit the characters.

well thats how i do it hope it works with you!
TheMadCapper

Fluffy
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DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #3 on: 10-03-2003 14:48 »

 
Quote
Any observer would have noted that David was stymied by his most recent challenge.

"David is stymied by this obstacle!", the announcer announced with the typical announcer habit of stating the obvious. David wondered how much money there was to be made in this career of describing exactly what was going on. At any rate, the qualifications required couldn't be too high.


Now THAT'S bad writing.

Um. I just have to know where the story is going, in order to make the actual writing come naturally. So maybe you'd benefit from putting together a storyline, then working on fleshing it out when inspiration is low.
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #4 on: 10-03-2003 14:54 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 14:54 »

I usually just have an idea for the theme of the story, and a losely connected "plot". Then it's basically just to wait for the right burst of energy to actually go about writing the story. They tend to come naturally at that point.

Edit: uhh, yeah, basically what Capper said. Having the overall plot and a clear knowledge of where you want to end up before starting is the way to go. You can always add more fat to various parts later on.
Ky12wng

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #5 on: 10-03-2003 15:04 »

 what i do first is plan out the story on another piece of paper. this may or may not work for you.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #6 on: 10-03-2003 16:20 »

Step one: watch TV
Step two: steal
Step three: change things around slightly, to make your stealing less obvious

Thank you.
Ky12wng

Bending Unit
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« Reply #7 on: 10-03-2003 16:33 »

but isnt that just stealing other people's ideas and passing them off as your own?
Jamesbondcja

Professor
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« Reply #8 on: 10-03-2003 16:36 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 16:36 »

Not if you change them just enough.

Ideas will come when you least expect them.
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #9 on: 10-03-2003 16:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ky12wng:
but isnt that just stealing other people's ideas and passing them off as your own?

Another word for that is plagirism, but yes, it is.

Although almost nothing is original anymore, so you don't need to care.
El Zilcho

Professor
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« Reply #10 on: 10-03-2003 16:39 »

Well, I think it's just stealing other people's ideas and passing them off as your own.
TheMadCapper

Fluffy
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« Reply #11 on: 10-03-2003 16:43 »

so, um, how many of us understood that FishyJeff was being facetious?

::raises hand::
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #12 on: 10-03-2003 16:46 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 16:46 »

::looks up facetious in dictionary, then raises hand::

@ everybody except TMC and FJ: The words you're looking for is: "similar, but legally distinct" like calling the main character Hairy Capper.

 
Quote
Originally posted by FishyJoe:
Step one: watch TV
Step two: steal
Step three: change things around slightly, to make your stealing less obvious

Thank you.

Fishy, I thought we agreed not to give away all our secrets.
BendingUnit1141

Professor
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« Reply #13 on: 10-03-2003 16:49 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 16:49 »

Write down heaps of notes. Gather your notes, make a story out of them. Fin.
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #14 on: 10-03-2003 16:52 »

Draw a storyboard on a piece of paper, if you have enough talent that you can make sense of your doodles. I do that, it works.
DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #15 on: 10-03-2003 17:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
The words you're looking for is: "similar, but legally distinct" like calling the main character Hairy Capper.

Are you suggesting Hairy Capper isn't an original creation like my other title characters in Fishiana Jeff and the Test Crusade or Velara Fog: Thread Raider?
Chump

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #16 on: 10-03-2003 17:14 »

I don't write professionally, but I'm not too bad, especially for someone going the science direction.

I find I write my best by doing this:
-Stay up really late or wake up in the late of night.
-Drink tea and think
-Write my thoughts and ideas
-String them together
-Later on, edit it to make it make sense
-Edit it again to make it good.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #17 on: 10-03-2003 17:56 »

In all seriousness, I get my best ideas just walking up the road alone in near silence, but that is impossible to do in some places.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #18 on: 10-03-2003 18:21 »

OK, first off, what are you writing?  Is it an essay, is it a story, etc.?

::Points at writing minor on academic profile::
Cube_166

Professor
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« Reply #19 on: 10-03-2003 18:52 »

I usually find it's best to just write when you a have an idea of where the plot is going. My characters seem to have a life of their own at that point. oh and by the way.
[points to finished novel]
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #20 on: 10-03-2003 19:47 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 19:47 »

 
Quote
By TheMadCapper:
so, um, how many of us understood that FishyJeff was being facetious?

What'd you just say about my face? I'll kill you!

 
Quote
By Teral:
Fishy, I thought we agreed not to give away all our secrets.

Sorry man. It's just that the kid, with his innocent plea for help...it really got to me.

At least I didn't give away our "tell aspiring writers to send us their work, so we can critique them and give advice, but really we just steal their ideas and blow them off" trick.

 
Quote
::Points at writing minor on academic profile::

 
Quote
[points to finished novel]

*points at big empty table, with a note that says "this space reserved for all the novels/scripts/Esquire articles/comics that I've been planning on finishing any day now"*
BNLbum

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #21 on: 10-03-2003 19:47 »

I write fiction.

Basically, I come up with a basic "skeleton" idea, then as I write it pretty much fleshes itself out. I have page after page filled with rough drafts of writing (which works out well, because transferring them to the computer is almost an editing in itself) and even more pages of notes taken on characters, plot points, etc.

Some days (usually bad days) I can write a lot, but usually I tend to set a goal of about three pages a day, which I constantly exceed or fall short of. I don't think I've ever actually written three pages in one day.
Killerfox

Professor
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« Reply #22 on: 10-03-2003 20:38 »

mhhh something true cube, after a while of writing characters come to have a life on their own and at some point they can "choose" what to do, you cant force them to do something, that is the great thing of writing
Cube_166

Professor
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« Reply #23 on: 10-04-2003 05:31 »

The problem with my characters is they never want to get on with the plot and prefer hanging about in bars instead.
Lurrr

Professor
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« Reply #24 on: 10-04-2003 05:53 »

I usually think up an idea, think of some more ideas to go with it, think a bit more about those ideas then write. Half the time I don't know exactly what I'm doing but as I'm writing I'll figure out better ways to do things and get familiar with the characters I'm writing about. then I'll go back over it and edit it. And I might edit it a few more times, but I've only ever got up to that last point so I don't know if I'd have the patience.

Writing is an odd thing for me. If I try and force myself to do it I hate it and my stuff sucks. I I really want to do it, or if I have a deadline (like an essay), then I'll race ahead with it and it'll turn out great. It depends on my mood (but I haven't been in a writing mood for a long time).
Killerfox

Professor
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« Reply #25 on: 10-04-2003 09:46 »

mhhh now that is a problem Cube, you should better go have writing classes or something
Cube_166

Professor
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« Reply #26 on: 10-04-2003 10:42 »

I don't need writing classes, they need adventuring classes.
eggsandwich

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #27 on: 02-22-2004 01:25 »
« Last Edit on: 02-22-2004 01:25 »

*bump*

I dont see the reason for 'writing classes' - wouldnt you be learning the tutor's style of writing instead of creating your own? It really defies the whole principal of writing, you want your own style & your own style is the best. If people dont like your style of writing, ask them what they hate about it and try to improve in that area. If you choose not to conform to the normal way of writing, that is brilliant. Writing is a psychological process in which you are writing the story that is playing in your mind - and presenting it the way of your thinking.

The best way of writing (that I think is) is not to force a story onto paper - but just go about your life, and once you have something in your mind - write it down as in your own way. No one has to understand it but you. Writing should be something you do for yourself*

*Unless you want readers, then they have to adapt to your style - much like we have to adapt to a directors' adaption of a novel, either hate it or just enjoy the different view of anothers' creativity
LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #28 on: 02-22-2004 04:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by eggsandwich:
I dont see the reason for 'writing classes' - wouldnt you be learning the tutor's style of writing instead of creating your own?

Writing is, of course, an art, but you have to have some background before you can run off and start turning things on their head -- how well will you be able to innovate if you have no idea of what already exists? I would view writing classes in much the same way I would view painting classes: they both gives you the basic skills you need to begin creating, and the knowledge you need tyo begin to develop style. Style rarely emerges fully-formed and untrained in an artist.

 
Quote
Originally posted by eggsandwich:
It really defies the whole principal of writing, you want your own style & your own style is the best.

I strongly disagree with the last part of your statement; a lot of people's writing style is for shit. Some people may say that their lack of a basic grasp of grammar or ability to create a coherent plot is their "style", when they really are too lazy to refine their skills.

If people dont like your style of writing, ask them what they hate about it and try to improve in that area.

 
Quote
Originally posted by eggsandwich:
If you choose not to conform to the normal way of writing, that is brilliant.

Again, I disagree. Too many people hold up their flaws as strengths and refuse to acknowledge and move past them. Though there are exceptions -- E.E. Cummings would be a good one -- most people who don't "conform to the normal way of writing" simply lack experience. Besides, this assumes there is a "normal" way or writing; there may be a "standard" way, but there is no normal way.

 
Quote
Originally posted by eggsandwich:
Unless you want readers, then they have to adapt to your style

I wouldn't think of that as good way of getting readers. If you're the one pursuing an audience, you're going to either have to adapt to them or convince them to tolerate you -- not this "accept my work or damn you" attitude.

Not to discredit the importance of making your writing personally relevent -- that's not what I think at all. I just think style is a much lesser consideration than developing a natural, believable voice in your writing. Something that gets some part of you across in your writing.

I do agree with what you said about overall writing process -- you really can't force creativity too much. Sometimes free associating writing can break through in the intitial stages of an idea, but if you get stuck somehere in the middle, there's no shame in shelving it only to revisit it later.

I have scores of half-finished stories and writings floating around in notebooks and in my computer, waiting to be completed. Whenever a good concept, phrase or just anything pops into my head, I try to write it down as quickly as I can. I have a Notepad file full of one- or two-sentence ideas that I look to when I need inspiration.

Often I've found an unfinished work's only purpose is to inspire you to work on something else.
ZombieJesus

Lost Belgian
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #29 on: 02-22-2004 04:49 »

Step 1: million monkeys on a million typewriters
Step 2
Step 3: profit

_____________________________ ____________________

Writing is something abstract to me, a spur of the moment thing.
~FazeShift~

Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #30 on: 02-22-2004 12:14 »

...or something where you steal other peoples ideas and make them funnier.

i.e. "Jesus died breakdancing for our sins!"
DrThunder88

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #31 on: 02-22-2004 12:26 »
« Last Edit on: 02-22-2004 12:26 »

Now that's religion!

Seriously though, I totally agree with LANny's treatise.  One must learn to walk before one can run, and just because something is different doesn't mean that it's good (it doesn't make it bad either).
TheMadCapper

Fluffy
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« Reply #32 on: 02-22-2004 14:52 »

Taking a writing class doesn't make you unable to write the same way ever again, anyhow.

And a few people here at peel could benefit from the application of ideas like paragraphs, clear statement of your main point, and cutting out the "fluff".....
VelourFog

Space Pope
****
« Reply #33 on: 02-22-2004 15:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FishyJoe:
  *points at big empty table, with a note that says "this space reserved for all the novels/scripts/Esquire articles/comics that I've been planning on finishing any day now"*

hey! you're a published writer, Jeff. don't take crap like that from anyone, not even youself. And do you write everyday? Cause I didn't think you did. Clearly the key to writing is to not do it very often and then email stuff to websites and sit back and wait for the money to roll in.
SwanMan3000

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #34 on: 02-22-2004 16:11 »

sometimes when people try to write they to physically write, if you think of it as reality then i find writing is easier. I always consider stories as films in my head rather than a book.
transgender nerd under canada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #35 on: 02-22-2004 20:05 »

Well, I write only when I can truly be arsed.

My novel is *almost* finished, and as a result of my lackadaisical approach to a work ethic, will likely remain *almost* finished for a while.

Finishing things off is waaaaay harder than starting them.

I have a million-billion-zillion bits n peices of creativity, random ideas, poetry, etc. that pops into my head all written down on paper. Once they get transferred to my laptop, I have a brief burst of energy and toy with them, then let 'em drop just before they hit true completion.

When I finally finish my book, I fully expect it to give me a brief burst of energy for beginning another, which will spend even longer under development.

In my opinion, writing classes are a waste of time. Either you can build a picture with your words, and grip the reader with the story that you tell, or you can't. It can't be learned. It just comes naturally to you, once your grasp of the language is full enough.

There are a lot of writers out there. Most of them are crap, and a lot of the crap writers get published. The reason? These people can churn out crap faster than your car's wheels will disappear in Liverpool or Bristol.

BUT (and this is in answer to MuscaDomestica's original question),

The slower you work, the more you think about it, the worse you will feel about it. The trick is to strike a balance. Try and get some thought going, then plunge blindly ahead, and let your brain work in 5th gear. Don't start off in 5th gear and try to slow down into 1st. This is fast, easy, and produces garbage. The trick to writing something good is to have 3 elements in place:

1) The inclination to sit down and write.
2) An idea already boiling away, one that you will have to be quick to jot down before it escapes (you start in 5th gear, see? Hit the ground running).
3) The will to accept that whatever you write may not be the words of fire that you intended. It could be utter shite. It could be good. Don't judge your own work before you sit down and read it through after it's imprisoned on the paper/screen.
4) An optional extra, alcohol is a great tool. Just a little though, to give you some motivation. Too much just turns your writing into stuff that you wouldn't want to wipe your arse with. As somebody who has deleted more of his own work than he has saved, I should know this.


As an aside, anybody who is connected to the publishing industry might want to drop me an email... I mean, it'd be nice to see if you could get me an appointment with your bosses... they might want to put my work on bookshelves, or they might want to burn it. Either way, I want to know.
Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #36 on: 02-22-2004 23:48 »

I read, and I can tell the people who are not English/Writing majors/minors.

Saying classes doesn't help, PFFT.  and in case you didn't catch that, <h1>PFFFFFFFFFFFT</h1>
Writing is a talent, and like any talent, you need to work at it.  Let's face it, I didn't pick up a trumpet in 4th grade and immediately start playing Duke Ellington.  I took classes, I took lessons, I practiced.  The same with writing.  Precious few people can just pick up a pen for the first time and write a fully-developed well-written story/essay/article/whatever.  If anything, you need to be taught proper grammar and the like.
SlaytanicMaggot
Professor
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« Reply #37 on: 02-23-2004 00:04 »

Have ADHD and be naturally shy. Really helps.
TheMadCapper

Fluffy
UberMod
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« Reply #38 on: 02-23-2004 00:08 »

no nix i wrote good stuff all the time and i dont need any lesons b/c i am writng my style adn i am not lurning 2 writ liek sum dum englihs prefesser u shuld kno taht good righting coms form teh hearrt not frum sum dum educatin
Nixorbo

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« Reply #39 on: 02-23-2004 00:11 »

...My head hurts.
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