I've always wondered why Leela did what she did that nught with Zapp. I mean, she had standards, and I personally wouldn't jump in bed with someone just cuz they're a loser. Fellow PEEL mambers, please post  your thoughts!

Welcome To Peel Kit and i think she was so sorry for him she was guilt tripped into having sex with him.

RTFP (that's Read the First Post.)

Pity/sympathy, desperation, maybe some of that cham-paggen...

Thanks for welcoming me here. It makes me a lot more comfortable.  SRMcF, where in the episode? I'm all open to any thoughts you have, so tell me what you think.

Pity, as well as that velour bedspread.

Who can resist velour? I know I can't.

 

Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
I've always wondered why Leela did what she did that nught with Zapp.

She told us herself. I don't remember the exact line but, it was along the lines of; "... For a split-second, my self-respect was overwhelmed by pity."

Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
I always thought that maybe the champagne was involved somehow. Maybe he got her drunk somehow?

Ah, no. Remember she poured it into the planter when Zap wasn't looking. 

Welcome to our little corner of paradise. It's not much but we call it P.E.E.L.
P.E.E.L: A more vile hive of nerds and geekery you will not find!

Thanks for the welcome, SpaceCase. Always nice to have people say hello  I know she poured it on the plant, but maybe, when he was puting on the pity act, Zapp offered her some champagne and she accepted? 

I'm new here, so could you please explain what 'canon' is? I've seen it used before, so I should know what it is.
Thanks

Thank you very much. I figured that if I'm going to be a member of PEEL, I should know the terminology. 

I think she was still intoxicated by who he was i.e. a decorated DOOP captain and his good looks etc.. but he wasn't making any headway with her until he turned on the tears and she fell for it... like she said she felt sorry for and him and then one thing led to another... and she didn't fully realise what a jerk he was until it was too late. At least thats my take on it.

Pity might be a turn-on for Leela, it is a superior position over the pityed. Pitying a famous galactic hero (true or not) or someone like an important Senator may just be more of a turn-on. Pitying Fry doesn't work because it's not much of a step up.

That and obviously she had the blues for quite a while leading up to it. If it didn't work out, Zapp would be light years away most of the time.

Hmm, well she admired Zapp from a distance before she actually met him while no one Amy tried to fix her up with at the bar was good enough. Let's see, the bedroom scene. Zapp agressive, egotistical - Leela no like, Zapp crying - Leela hop in bed, Wake up Zapp back to being agressive, egotistical - Leela no like.

I didn't say that it was an conscious or coniving thought process. Remember in My Three Suns Fry telling her, "I told you a hundred times to stop treating me like a baby." And of course there's always the type of things that happen with office romances.

A turn-on can be something a person has that they didn't know they had and can be quite spontaneous. I think you see different aspects of her personality depending on who she's with, but her own insight is "I've been a fool. A fully-justified, prudent fool".

Speaking captian to captian as you say.

Nope, nope. I said piting was a superior position to being pitied. Perhaps I should called it red light, green light rather than turn-on. As superior relates to feeling safe or secure in proceeding. Not so much a pity-f*ck.

But I have to wonder if Leela has a bit of a mental problem. She often assualts and beats up the guys she's done it with verbally and physically. Zapp, Alkazar, the very normal doctor. She snaps very quickly between love and hate and appears to have little self control. Makes one wonder if there aren't a lot of TRO's and warrants with her name on them out there we don't know about. At least that may be the word on the street.

Yeah, popcorn sounds good. Got some for tonights toons.

Good luck with that.

 

Originally posted by futz:
Nope, nope. I said piting was a superior position to being pitied. Perhaps I should called it red light, green light rather than turn-on. As superior relates to feeling safe or secure in proceeding. Not so much a pity-f*ck.

Please...it's "f*&%."  This IS a family forum.   

As per your argument: sure...pity creates a feeling of safety.  That's why manipulative people use it to get what they want (a more cynical example than Zapp is the hilarious "Cabbage Head" guy of the "Kids in the Hall" comedy group, who makes Zapp Brannigan look charming and polite; and on the female side the principle is demonstrated somewhat by Michelle, our own Fry's ex).

But you're wrong in thinking that this feeling of safety in pity is a positive feeling for her - she has never seemed to "get off on" pitying anyone (I repeat that she seemed closest to Fry when she was FARTHEST from pitying him). Furthermore, I would characterize Leela's emotion in LLLiS as a mix of pity and sympathy.  Just to clarify:

Sympathy: sym- means together with, pathos means emotions.  Literally, "to feel together with another."  Their emotion arouses your emotion, like tuning forks in resonance.

Empathy: em means “into,” so literally “to feel into another;” to sympathize so much that one feels almost a part of another person, as though their pain IS your pain.

Pity: from Latin pius, dutiful.  Now, “duty” comes from the same root as “debt;” So to pity another is to do something for them because you feel you owe them (due to cultural and/or religious rules and expectations).

I do NOT see that Leela slept with Zapp because she felt she “owed” him, at least, not THAT much, for rejecting his idiotic advances...I think she was genuinely sympathetic.  There was nothing patronizing in her voice as she put her arm around him and said “it’s not so bad.” 

Pity may contain the seeds of superiority, but sympathy does the very opposite...it makes you feel connected to someone, makes you their equal through shared misery.  I think it was a mixture of pity AND sympathy that directed her actions; pity made her pat his shoulder and say something nice, but only sympathy could get her to offer the...uh...extreme comfort she did.  Another clue: Zapp spoke of loneliness, and  loneliness is a well-established keystone of Leela’s character, right from the pilot.  He unknowingly triggered one of her core issues.

I’m sure she characterized it as purely “pity” afterward because she knew she’d been “had” (in more than one sense,    ) and now couldn’t believe she’d been so dumb as to fall for it. 

But onward: ever since then, Leela has (very rightly) felt superior to Zapp (who truly is a “pompous dimwit” and a “dumb, gross gorilla” ), but not once has she shown any sign of *ahem* engaging in snu-snu with him - she’s been actively nauseated by it, EVEN when he showed up at her doorstep all pathetic in “Brannigan Begin Again.” 

Meanwhile, the guys she HAS snu-snued (Alkazar), has possibly snu-snued (Adlai), or has wanted to snu-snu (Chaz, Parasites!Fry, possibly Quee-queg and/or William Shatner) have all been (at the time of her attraction) firmly her equal or her social superior (if you go by mainstream standards).

I just don’t see Leela having a thing for superiority.  Nothing in canon backs it up.

~~~

And on the issue of Leela's violence, Venus TOTALLY ownz you!         

Whoa, that was a long one, Shiny. But you people, listen to her, dammit! The speech may be long-winded and confusing to my underdeveloped brain, but it has things in it you should listen to. I would compliment it, but I don't really understand much of it, due to the big words used.  so I;ll just tell eveyone else to read it and translate it for me. 

 

Originally posted by futz:
You really think that's what Leela was thinking when she's bobbing Zapp's knob. Your little speech went on longer than they're "night of passion".

I believe I explained that I don’t think Leela was thinking much at all at that point.  But if you want it all spelled out, then I think her mental processes went something like this (please allow for verbal representation of non-verbal thoughts and emotional states):

Leela: "What a jerk.  Oh crud, he's crying!  I didn't mean to hurt his feelings THAT bad!  Quick, cheer him up.  Say something comforting. You shouldn't have been so harsh, Leela, it's like kicking a puppy...a great big, galumphing, drooling, stupid, horny puppy, but still just a...."

[Zapp: I'm just so LONELYYYYYY!]

Leela (feels awakening of a very old, hollow pain in the middle of her chest, and hot tears spring to her eye): "Oh god...I've felt that bad...I can't think of anything positive to say to that!  Is this all I have to look forward to?  Poor guy....oh bleah, he's trying to kiss me...well, maybe it'll make him feel barely, marginally better *sob* oh GOD what's wrong with me, I'm acting like a big baby...I wish I felt barely, marginally better...oh god, look at me I'm such a basket case...there he goes again, oh, why don&#8217;t I just let him, at least it&#8217;ll make HIM happy, and it&#8217;s not like I deserve any better, I really am a worthless freak and no one will ever love meeeeee <hic> *sob*sob* <hic> *sob*...."


 

Note to self: If Leela plants boot in Venus's teeth because Venus called a perfectly beautiful child with 3 ears "disfigured", cheer for Leela.

Oh, I think Leela&#8217;s going to be too tuckered out from kicking someone else&#8217;s teeth...someone who suggests that the most embarrassing mistake of her life was made from some &#8220;superiority&#8221; hangup, rather than just a badly misplaced kindness...someone who discusses the subject with all the sensitivity and understanding of a frat boy whose steady girlfriend has sprung a leak...someone who evades logical arguments by ridiculing their thoroughness or by climbing up on a high horse and going &#8220;Nyaah!&#8221; at some minor point of phrasing, using feigned &#8220;sensitivity&#8221; as camoflage...someone in obvious denial of being on the &#8220;-down&#8221; side of rapidly successive smackdowns....someone in this veeeeery thread.....      

Or maybe someone who parses words, makes up things people didn't say, buries it in a long-winded rationlization, and thinks winning a discusion is merely getting the last and most words in when there really isn't anything to win?