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Author Topic: Fanart trends  (Read 558 times)
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Archonix

Space Pope
****
« on: 06-21-2003 19:47 »
« Last Edit on: 06-21-2003 19:47 »

Now forive me if it's decided thsi is in the wrong forum.  It's about fanart and stuff, so I figured... *cough* anyway.

My background is a Simpsons fanartist and writer and I've spent a lot of time working on things based on that series.  Now, a while back, at my website (See sig) there was something of an 'incident' involving, shall we say, less then decent images of a few of the characters.  It had a fairly big impact on a lot of artists and as a consequence we've become something of a puritan bunch when it comes to our subjects.  I personally think this is not a good thing to happen because now, if for example me were to draw a picture of... oh I dunno, Marge Simpson in a bikini, there'd be a very uncomfortable pause. (The problem actually stems from the fact that one of the 'artists' in question had a style very similar to my own).  Now I feel very restricted because of that.  I can't draw a character sexy becasue I always think it'll end up being associated with... well lets just say it.  Porn.

And the point of this message?  Well, I just wonder if I'm being paranoid.  I can't ask it in mos tof the Simpsons community because on average they're a pretty childish bunch.  I can't ask it on my own forum because I'm an admin, and it doesn't generally do well to see admins questioning their own morals.  Seeing art by Femjesse and The Voices (And so many others too) has made me realise how much I miss the freedom I used to have.  So... I'm here, and I'm asking you lot, should I just relax about it?  Or should I stick with my uptight ways? (I have to admit, I've ended up drawing some remarkably unusual pictures this way...)


God help me...
aslate

Space Pope
****
« Reply #1 on: 06-21-2003 19:50 »

Relax about it, i love the work by FemJesse and TheVoices.
Kipper

Bending Unit
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« Reply #2 on: 06-21-2003 20:39 »

I am really not sure what to tell ya.....I am not a big fan of the kind of art that has to do with porn that are drawn by artists like femjesse or thevoices. I know they are great artists and have a lot of talent but A lot of their art has to do with porn and stuff like this that i find really disturbing even though it is a preety good pic tongue:
i think you shouldnt incourage it but dont not allow it.........but thats just my opinion on it...just do what you think is right

Beamer

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #3 on: 06-21-2003 22:37 »

Every artist has their own style, and some are somewhat more perverted than others. But then again, looking at some of the things Leela and Amy have done/worn in the show, it's pretty obvious that sometimes even the REAL animators of the show tend to do some perverted stuff in it sometimes (like Leela and Amy's "self defence" lessons in Jurassic Bark), although they don't go as far as that picture above. :P

Basically - I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Sure, some of the fanart here can be quite explicit, but I don't think it's as disturbing as Kipper says it is. However, I do agree with Kipper's "you shouldn't incourage it, but you shouldn't ban it" attitude. I say that as long as it's drawn well, you shouldn't worry about how perverted it is, with some exceptions.
Yorokobi

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #4 on: 06-21-2003 22:45 »

To me, it's a matter of taste, and that being subjective should be handled one of three ways.

A) I am webmaster, bow before your god (IE you shall set the standards, it is your website after all)

B) Since it's all subjective, there is no one authority, therefore everything goes (disclaimers and catagories are suggested)

C) Parlimentary Rule - Standards are set by the group as a whole, or a duely assigned set of representatives.

A can be bad from a PR standpoint, B can also be bad from PR standpoint, C can be a nightmare of redtape.....

Personally, I'd go with A but keep myself reminded of how much the "classics" would allow.  In modern terms, if it's a pose or scene that would suit Playboy Ok, if it's more along the lines of Hustler, "burn it".

FemJesse

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #5 on: 06-22-2003 00:48 »

I think you should draw and host whatever you feel like, but you should consider the target audience out there.  I had a similar argument about NEA endowment money.  You can't go purposefully looking for trouble, if you are clear that you're experimenting with things, that's okay.  Not everyone is going to support you.  Most of the times, the people that disagree with what you post here keep out of your thread.

As far as this cartoon "pornography" line is drawn... I just don't want to see any liquids.  Usually you're safe doing solitary character nudes... as my Art History teacher says "The nude knows he/she is bare and commands a regal presence.  Naked is nude with shame." 

My drawings are semi-naked.  I try to keep it light by avoiding frontal nudity, but the characters know they're being bad.

Its all in your hands if you want to deal with nude or naked.  I'd be interested to see another character artist's handling of the matter.
The Names Nick

Professor
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« Reply #6 on: 06-22-2003 01:09 »

I have no real problem with any of the art I have seen posted here on PEEL. Some of it may not be drawn as well but in terms of subject matter I have not seen anything that I would deem "unacceptable". Id say full frontal nudity would be pushing the limits, but it would depend on the picture and how it was drawn, style used, ect.
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #7 on: 06-22-2003 01:49 »

In my scanarts, I would never put anything that wouldn't be in the show, but that's just my preference. I have no problem with any of the stuff done by FemJesse, TheVoices or any other controversial Futurama fan artist. It's not that I don't draw the line anywhere, it's just that none of these people have CROSSED the line yet as far as I'm aware.
Zed 85

Space Pope
****
« Reply #8 on: 06-22-2003 05:38 »

I have drawn the characters naked quite a lot.  hmpf A lot of the time it's a more artistic nudity - where it takes a different meaning - it nearly represents something. Well that's the excuse. But I have also gone to the plain perverse on several occasions.

However, I have not drawn them full frontal - there is always something covering it up, like shadows, limbs, Kalashnikovs or other stuff (saying this reminds me of a MP sketch where Terry Gillian did an animated "Full Frontal Nudity" but just as the women turned round, massive yet miniture car crashes always happened in front of them blocking any view of their lower anatomy  tongue)

Actually, I have a thing about drawing people's anatomy - I don't basically. Even in live art, I just tend to draw around them...
That's a distinct line I do not go across.

As far as your case goes, I'd say relax though keep a distinct line, so anything you're not happy with you should tell the artist and s/he should get the message on what he or she should or shouldn't submit.
aslate

Space Pope
****
« Reply #9 on: 06-22-2003 07:10 »

Yea, full-frontal is probably going over "the line", but the art you posted is fine by me, great drawing.
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #10 on: 06-22-2003 08:05 »

There's a distinct difference in the two shows, and the way they handle sexuality. For instance I can't remember we've ever seen Marge's butt, but we've seen Amy's and Leela's on several occasions. Marge and Homer still refer to it as "snuggling", whereas we've seen several postact shots in Futurama, and numerous references ("formidable doer of the nasty", "did the nasty in the pasty", Amy's slutiness, etc). Only the 4th episode had Zapp and Leela do it.

What I'm trying to say is, the creators/writers/animators of Futurama opened the door themself, and more or less  pushed the limits way out for what is acceptable. If you listen to the audio commentaries (if you have the DVD's), you'll hear the staff comment very enthusiastically on Leela/Amy's clothes with strategically placed holes, nudity on beaches/parks/bed, etc.

What I've seen posted on PEEL keep within those limits. Sure some of the pictures are borderwalking, but none of them crossed the line. Full frontal nudity probably will. The artists however are quite clever to use angles and things (like assualt-riffles  wink )to their advantage.

Marge in a bikini is completely acceptable as far as I'm concerned. I mean she has to wear something at the beach. Relaxing the rules would be a good idea (IMO, ofcourse), as far better pictures usually gets made when the artist don't have to worry about a lot of rules, etc. However since it's your site I think it's your decision what you want to allow. And if your visitors/submitters know you and what your site stands for they'll also be able to figure out what pictures you'll accept and which ones you wont.

Hmm, this turned out longer than I intended to. In short: yes, I think you could relax the rules, as long as the pictures are done tastefully.
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #11 on: 06-22-2003 08:41 »

Oh well, like I said, the problem isn't what I actually think about it.  I'm pretty well fine with most pictures - I went to art college and I've got a ncie collection of nude studies in my room somewhere still.  Naked isn't the problem.  The problem is that these were some pretty explicit drawings and it affected the general attitude of a lot of people, to the extent that I was even accused of being one of these 'artists'.   It wasn't even that they were just the adults involved either, but the kids.  That one really turned my stomach as a matter of fact...

(Ironically it turned out to be a friend of mine from college who I taught to draw in the style.  I still worry about what people would think...)

I mean Futurama is a very sexy show, I can see that, and it's one of the things I like about it.  Like I said, the problem isn't me.  It's what people might say about me if I did anything remotely risqué... it's an association thing.  I sometimes get really depressed about it because I don't have this freedom I used to have, to draw what I want. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I need someone to tell me it's alright.  smile
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #12 on: 06-22-2003 11:32 »
« Last Edit on: 06-22-2003 11:32 »

I've created some pictures that you could call a bit explicit, but they're done in the most tasteful way possible. I'd be happy to share them, it's just I can't be bothered to go through the process of getting them hosted (to be honest, that kind of technical crap kinda goes over my head). How about I email them to somebody and they post them for me? I'm an A level art student so I can assure you they are very high quality. Anyone interested?
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #13 on: 06-22-2003 14:29 »

You just wanted an excuse to post that picture again, Kipper, didn't you.  wink
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #14 on: 06-22-2003 16:22 »

Archonix; It's allright.  wink

 
Quote
Originally posted by M Jackson:
I've created some pictures that you could call a bit explicit, but they're done in the most tasteful way possible. I'd be happy to share them, it's just I can't be bothered to go through the process of getting them hosted (to be honest, that kind of technical crap kinda goes over my head). How about I email them to somebody and they post them for me? I'm an A level art student so I can assure you they are very high quality. Anyone interested?

As lomg as they're below 256kb send them to me, and I'll host them.
aslate

Space Pope
****
« Reply #15 on: 06-22-2003 16:26 »

If they're over 256kb (or any size) send them to me (or use TFH's upload form) and i can host them too. I'm adding a fanartist rating system soon, so we can let that decide.
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #16 on: 06-22-2003 17:42 »

Thankyou aslate Ive used your link and I think everything worked OK please let me know. Teral I was going to submit them to you too but the files are much bigger than you said they could be.
Yorokobi

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #17 on: 06-22-2003 18:14 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
Hmm, this turned out longer than I intended to. In short: yes, I think you could relax the rules, as long as the pictures are done tastefully.

And theres the real catch, "Tastefully" is subjective.  Some folks would find "liquids" tasteful, while others loath Raphael's Venus and stick Fig leaves on Classic Statuary...

Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #18 on: 06-22-2003 19:32 »

Do what you're good at!

Personally, I don't like porn, but if it's your style, go with it. 
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #19 on: 06-22-2003 20:06 »

Well that's the thing, you see, it isn't my style.  In an idea world I'd be able to draw stuff that was sexy, but not explicit.  But the problem is I cna't do that, because most I'm still pretty much paranoid about people saying I'm one of 'those pornographers.'  I'll stop now.  I really should get over it, but I'm just feeling incredibly trapped, creatively, because of this.
Kipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #20 on: 06-22-2003 20:12 »
« Last Edit on: 06-22-2003 20:12 »

ok now i am confused  confused.....are you parinoid because you dont want piers to copy that kind of art or think ill of you because of your art or are you parinod because you dont know what to do with the peoples art submitted that is based off art that you have done????

or am i way off on what you are worried about???   confused    confused
FemJesse

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #21 on: 06-22-2003 20:13 »

Do it for yourself, if not for the people who love you!  Don't just break out of the box... burn the box.  Create an alias for your explicit work if you need to.  I have an alias I use for some of mine... "MamaMafia"
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #22 on: 06-22-2003 20:40 »

Just do whatever you feel like, whatever it is.  What do you have to lose?  I've seen your stuff, and it's really good.  Keep it up!
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #23 on: 06-22-2003 20:45 »

An alis sounds like a good idea, but I still worry that I would have a too distinctive style.  Meh... I'm a worrier.  big grin  I should stop, right?  laff

 
Quote
Originally posted by Kipper:
ok now i am confused   confused.....are you parinoid because you dont want piers to copy that kind of art or think ill of you because of your art or are you parinod because you dont know what to do with the peoples art submitted that is based off art that you have done????

or am i way off on what you are worried about???    confused     confused

Paranoid because people would associate my art with other less savoury stuff.   hmpf  Just paranoid in general, in fact.  I should stop.  I'm just wasting people's time here.  smile
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #24 on: 06-22-2003 20:50 »

No you aren't, because my time is worthless! (Fry)
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #25 on: 06-25-2003 03:14 »

Look - if you want to take your fanart a bit further here than you would in your Simpsons fanarts, then go ahead, just try not to cross the line too much. There have been some VERY raunchy Futurama fanarts and scanarts released over the years, but none have crossed the line (although some have tiptoed and danced all over it, none have crossed it). I've made just over 50 scanarts now, and I myself must admit that I often alter the cleavage levels from the original framegrabs...  roll eyes
Even so, I still don't cross the line.

So, no, we won't criticize you or call you a pervert or anything like that if you make fanarts that are somewhat explicit, just DON'T cross that line that I've mentioned about 100 times in this post!

EG: Some websites may accept some fanarts with frontal nudity, but most probably won't. Even so, websites that do accept these probably wouldn't accept anything below the waist.

Also, if you're aiming to make your scanarts humourous, then PLEASE keep the jokes tasteful. Pictures of Fry trying to perve on Leela and Amy are usually quite funny, but if you draw Fry with an erection or something like that, then things just go from funny to completely tasteless.

There are just rules like these that you should follow if you want respect for your fanarts. Some things that are borderline may get you more respect for just how far you're willing to go without crossing the line, but they'll just generally get you in to trouble on most ocassions.

Basically, Archonix, if you don't cross this line, then you won't get any criticism over the raunchiness of your fanarts, even if they would be considered raunchy in the Simpsons fanart commmunity.
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #26 on: 06-25-2003 07:26 »

Echoing Yorokobi, the problem is defining that imaginary border known as "The Line". On a familyboard/website I place it at full frontal nudity, others might think anything with nudity is crossing the line.

I don't know. I guess "the line" is like porn. It's difficult to describe, but you know what it is when you see it. Basically, let your own common sense guide you.
Anarchist

Professor
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« Reply #27 on: 06-25-2003 09:02 »

It all depends where you plan to submit it to. Hell, there's at least one Futurama porn-art site that I'm aware of. People who don't like that kind of stuff simply don't go there. Like everyone already said, don't worry about it. Restricting yourself to rules too much and paying excessive attention to limits has an adverse effect on the creative process. If you won't want to draw porn, then don't draw porn. The things that FemJesse and TheVoices post here aren't porn.
Oh, and don't worry about our reaction; as I'm sure you've already noticed, we are a much looser and more socially accepting community than where you came from.
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #28 on: 06-25-2003 19:36 »

Just think to yourself, would you be quite happy to go and show your fanart to your family or friends? If the answer is no then maybe it's a bit explicit, but just post it on the web instead.
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