Bf1221 attemps to draw

[Reply #160 on:]

Just drew this:



Colored via computer:



Colored by hand:

[Reply #161 on:]

Kinda makes me think of a human sonic the hedgehog. Probably due to the spikiness.

[Reply #162 on:]

Nibbs approves.

[Reply #163 on:]

Thanks:

More things I drew over the last few hours:





I know the hair on that last one is too bad I was trying to do pigtails

And here is an attempt at Leela.

Uncolored:



Colored:

[Reply #164 on:]

BF, those are much nicer than the results Paint was giving you. I approve!

[Reply #165 on:]

Thanks. I'm quite happy with manual coloring. Much easier than using GIMP since I can't get the lines to be solid enough to color without redrawing the lines via the computer.

Yes I am spamming my thread with lots of pictures. I was in drawing mood today and still trying to get it out of my system



Edit:

Moar

[Reply #166 on:]

So I just attempted to draw two people kissing:



How bad is it? How can I make it better? I can't d hair very well right now.

[Reply #167 on:]

The good thing about practsing drawing is that you don't need to post every single attempt on the internet. If you save your best drawings, then it will be less embarrassing when you look back on them all. I've gone back to my deviantart countless times and had to delete a lot of crappy unfinished work, it's not fun. At least with the work I put my full ability in at the time I have a better idea of how I improved.

[Reply #168 on:]

These are the betters ones. I've been drawing like constantly the last few days so there are tons of failed attempts everywhere and scattered in my various sketchbooks. This latest on in particular I wanted to know the best way to improve future attempts.

Most of the ones, I've just posted the last few days is because I wanted to and thought that my art thread might get some people offering advise. And so that I can see how I'm improving without having tons of paper everywhere and stuff and if I lose my notebooks.

[Reply #169 on:]

You really shouldn't be seeking advice as a beginner, when you're not ready for it, it can be humiliating and hurtful. You really need to be more confident before you will be able to take serious critique <_> your best bet is to find tutorials on how to draw and colour and take it from there. Also, learn to use layers, and learn how to use the pen tool.

[Reply #170 on:]

How is asking for advice or criticism humiliating or hurtful? How is receiving it either of those? The way I see it is that there is constructive advice/criticism and nonconstructive advice or criticism. Unconstructive is telling someone they can't do something well and should therefore stop trying. Constructive is helping someone improve by offering hints or advice. I ask for help because I know I need the help. Just practicing isn't going to do you any good unless you KNOW what you are doing wrong.

I'm trying a new style which I may or may not be getting the hang of properly. Well more I'm trying to get a style so that my my drawings aren't all fail and Futurama characters that I've drawn while looking at a freeze frame.  If someone tells me something I can improve how is that humiliating? It's a learning experience and drawing is all about practice and if you can constructive criticism.

I'm studying a book on regular drawing and a book on manga/anime drawing and watching tutorials that I can find online. I'm just not doing all the shading right now cause I feel it's not looking right since I'm not totally happy with how I've draw and redrawn something, so until I get to the point where I feel I'm efficient at drawing everything before learning shading techniques. The kissing picture was something I wanted to try to see if I could do not having the basics perfect and I don't think it turned out HORRIBLY not a good as it could be but it would be worse.

None of these latest pictures have been done on the computer. Everything has been done and inked by hand. Except the one picture where I managed to get someone to scan it for me so that I could color it on my computer which was a very frustrating task. I have a very hard time controlling my hand and pointer on my table so that I can draw anything and it's very frustrating especially with the way I draw and write I have to have the paper  or thing I'm drawing on at an odd angle from me and when I draw I turn the paper so doing anything via the computer is quite hard for me.

I'm well away I'm not Prof Zoidy or Demeter or Freako or Coldy or or TLF or even you or any of those guys who can draw brilliantly. I'm also well aware that there is very little change that I will get to that point but I want to draw I want to share the stuff that I at least think looks decent. You can avoid my thread if you don't want to see my stuff if it makes you angry or something. I'm just having fun trying to learn to be good at something.

[Reply #171 on:]

Bianca, offering advice and insight makes you look knowledgeable and helpful. Complaining about how many pics someone puts in their own art thread makes you look like a jerk. I'm pretty sure BF has put all those pics up so we really have an idea of what her work is like, not just to show off a couple of pieces that luckily worked out ok.

[Reply #172 on:]

What are you using for a pencil, BF? My preference is for a harder lead to sketch with, eg, a 2H, so it is easier to erase and doesn't smudge. If you're using a softer lead to sketch, like a 2B, try using a harder one.

[Reply #173 on:]

I'm using an HB lead so pretty much a basic number 2 pencil. I have sketching pencils but I'm still trying to figure out what I like best.

[Reply #174 on:]

TMC: Shut up. I think she can handle her own thread.

BF: I mean humiliating, because even though you might think something looks good and you're proud of your own effort (this isn't specific to you, this is about everyone), it can be really hard to take advice from others. Oh I once gave constructive critisism to my friend (and yeah it was constructive, something about colours and stuff) during an art class and I get called negative and other names. Psshhh. Anyway, I've seen quite a lot of people completely fly off the handle and rage quit because they took someone's advice/critique the wrong way or didn't agree with it. And like you said, you're having fun.

Secondly, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether you do things by hand or not. Believe it or not, things done on the computer doesn't automatically equal better or more advanced, not in the slightest. Anyone who judges a piece of work on the basis of it being done on the computer vs hand drawn is an idiot. The thing about doing things on the computer is that it tricks people into thinking it's automatically good for some reason.

[Reply #175 on:]

But lens flare makes everything 50% better!

[Reply #176 on:]

Dear Bianca,

Of course she can handle her own thread. Especially if people offer suggestions in a helpful manner, as opposed to making backhanded snarky comments about how you want them to post less in their own art thread and saying "lurn 2 pen tool and tutorial" without actually mentioning how. Do you know who you're making look bad when you act like this? Hint: it's you.

Tell yourself that you were only being helpful and the bad man TMC was mean to you for no reason, just like every other person who ever noticed and commented on your bad attitude. Maybe you'll even manage to convince yourself that you're the victim when you're the one who started the whole thing!

Love, TMC.

[Reply #177 on:]

My opinion about your new art:

- I think I recognise pre-pencil sketches. Good choice, keep them
- These pre-lines show you "know where you want to go with your picture". It seems you have an idea of the completed picture in your head, instead of beginning with one part, adding up details. (Something I have been rather subject to in my early art..heck, I still do make that mistake from time to time )

So, those were the things I think you should keep.
Now for the constructice criticism, or -to put it blatantly- "those things you should change"

- Your outlines seem a bit "insecure". Sometimes, it appears you have "stability problems", which gives those lines a slighty "frizzled" look. (especially the face from 6.6.2012).
The faster you draw lines, the more stable they appear. You might try to draw these faces a little bit smaller: The lines probably will appear less frickled. This will help you to get used to a more stable grip on your outlines. After a while, you can gradually increase the size again, and you will keep that increased stability.

[Reply #178 on:]

The good thing about practsing drawing is that you don't need to post every single attempt on the internet.

You spelled "practising" wrong. You know, you don't need to post every single attempt you make at typing.

Of course you don't need to post every single attempt at drawing on the internet. In BF1221's case, this would require several million updates a day. She actually does quite a lot of random sketching, writing things down in a book, and generally putting her pencil to paper within a 24-hour period. Some of her drawings/sketches are pretty good. Some of them are as bad as mine (yeah, I doodle constantly too, and it's pretty awful).

3 drawings within a short space of time isn't a lot. Especially in a PEEL thread where she's specifically posting her drawings. Which you're under no obligation to actually view if you don't think she's any good, much less comment on.

If you save your best drawings, then it will be less embarrassing when you look back on them all. I've gone back to my deviantart countless times and had to delete a lot of crappy unfinished work, it's not fun.

We get it, you're trying to say you don't think those drawings are very good, in a way that's so roundabout it almost seems like you might be trying to be helpful. Does that make you feel good about yourself?

You really shouldn't be seeking advice as a beginner, when you're not ready for it, it can be humiliating and hurtful.

Y'know what's hurtful? People telling you you're not ready for advice and that it will be humiliating, based on zero evidence. Look at Inquisitor Hein's advice. It's not humiliating or hurtful. In fact, it's very good advice, and so similar to the comments I would have made that I'm not going to make those comments any more.

Your best bet is to find tutorials on how to draw and colour and take it from there. Also, learn to use layers, and learn how to use the pen tool.

Computer drawing advice? Or merely just snark? It's hard to tell. Besides which, the majority of BF1221's drawings are clearly photographs of hand-drawn sketches.

I think you should refrain from offering advice until you learn how to give it.

BF, I was originally going to comment on the outlines of your drawings. Hein's pointed out that they're not very stable already, so all I'm going to do is say something I've said before that still holds true: your sketches tend to look much better once they're coloured. You should think about doing all your shading via colours, and take pictures of before/after so you can compare the blank drawing to the coloured one.

Keep practising, keep posting the ones you want comments on in here, and ignore Bianca. Seriously. Ignore everything she's ever said. Focus on the advice from El-Man and Hein, and keep trying to get what's in your head down on paper.

[Reply #179 on:]

Thanks Hein, I'll try that. My hands tend to be very unsteady some it's definitely something I'll try and see if it helps. I'll work on making the pictures smaller. It seems like when I have a sheet of drawing paper I tend to want to take up as much of it as I can I'm not really sure why just habit or something.

I have something very specific in my head that I want to draw but I need to get the basics done well first. The attempts at kissing is part of that.

[Reply #180 on:]

I have another two points for you:

- When a line becomes unstable, nearly every artist automatically tries to compensate by drawing slower and more concentrated. DON'T!!! This will make things only worse. The frickled outlines are due to a pencil remaining to long on a certain spot. This "slower, more concentrated drawing" is usually done automatically without the artist realising it.
So, when you realise you are facing problems with a line, immediatelly focus your attention on your drawing speed.

- Your art is heavily outline based. Even with colouring, the lines will add the most (or at least a big portion) of character to the pic. Therefore, it's advisable to use different line thicknesses.  I'll be so vain for once and refer to one of my pictures as example:
Please do look at the "Indiana Fry" preview pic. On Cahill's face, the outer frame features the thickest line. Her nose/lips do already consist of thinner lines, while the two little lines representing that shade under the eye are the thinnest.
The rule: "Outer frames thick, inner little details thin" will usually improve a pic. It can also be used later to create a foreground/background hierarchie. Again one of my pics as example: When you look at the Space Kraken,  the tentacles in the foreground are thickly outlined. While the ones in the background are rather thin.
(There are certainly better examples to illustrate my point of view, but I am too lazy to search the web for those right now.  I'll just be so self righteous to believe my two pictures are just "good enough to get the job done being an example" )
As you seem to be drawing nearly "portrait only" right now, a foreground/background hierarchie is not so important for you. But you might want to keep that rule in mind when your pictures feature more persons/large landscapes/etc... .

[Reply #181 on:]

I'll take a look and try what you have suggested with my next drawing and I'll put it in here to see if there is any difference and what people think.

My next step after I feel like I'm doing the faces okay on a front view will be switching to 3/4 view then to a profile. The I'll be on to bodies. This will take me a while an a lot of practice. I'm just trying to go a little at a time to make sure I can do everything to what I feel is the best of my ability and probably try to push past that.

I will get to backgrounds and landscapes and scenes eventually it's just going to take me a while. I want to feel proficient at everything I do. This determination needs to follow me to everywhere in life though, but that's a different issue all together.

[Reply #182 on:]

I have another two points for you:

- When a line becomes unstable, nearly every artist automatically tries to compensate by drawing slower and more concentrated. DON'T!!! This will make things only worse. The frickled outline are due to a pencil remaining to long on a certain spot. This "slower, more concentrated drawing" is usually done automatically without the artist realising it.
So, when you realise you are facing problems with a line, immediatelly focus your attention on your drawing speed.

- Your art is heavily outline based. Even with colouring, the lines will add the most (or at least a big portion) of character to the pic. Therefore, it's advisable to use different line thicknesses.  I'll be so vain for once and refer to one of my pictures as example:
Please do look at the "Indiana Fry" preview pic. On Cahill's face, the outer frame features the thickest line. Her nose/lips do already consist of thinner lines, while the two little lines representing that shade under the eye are the thinnest.
The rule: "Outer frames thick, inner little details thin" will usually improve a pic. It can also be used later to create a foreground/background hierarchie. Again one of my pics as example: When you look at the Space Kraken,  the tentacles in the foreground are thickly outlined. While the ones in the background are rather thin.
(There are certainly better examples to illustrate my point of view, but I am too lazy to search the web for those right now.  I'll just be so self righteous to believe my two pictures are just "good enough to get the job done being an example" )
As you seem to be drawing nearly "portrait only" right now, a foreground/background hierarchie is not so important for you. But you might want to keep that rule in mind when your pictures feature more persons/large landscapes/etc... .

I feel like simply reading this post has made me better at drawing, and I hardly ever draw. 

[Reply #183 on:]

Dear Bianca,

Of course she can handle her own thread. Especially if people offer suggestions in a helpful manner, as opposed to making backhanded snarky comments about how you want them to post less in their own art thread and saying "lurn 2 pen tool and tutorial" without actually mentioning how. Do you know who you're making look bad when you act like this? Hint: it's you.

Tell yourself that you were only being helpful and the bad man TMC was mean to you for no reason, just like every other person who ever noticed and commented on your bad attitude. Maybe you'll even manage to convince yourself that you're the victim when you're the one who started the whole thing!

Love, TMC.

I told you to shut up. As in, don't butt into topics you don't know about. I didn't say I was the only person capable of giving useful advice, I didn't say that my advice may be helpful to her. Digital art in particular I only started doing really only not even 2 years ago, so yeah, don't tell me what I'm saying isn't valid when you just don't know what you're on about.

And I think she knows how to use google and she'd be able to find tutorials on both those subjects, better than what I'd be able to explain. The first attempt I made at the pen tool was horrific. And you know what? I'm pretty sure I got a fair bit of insults because of this. I didn't have people butting in trying to be a good person despite not knowing what they were on about, and obviously I moved on.

Any quick search on deviantart will bring you a heap of tutorials on whatever subject, it depends how you learn best. I didn't really understand the pen tool at all until a teacher actually showed me either. Back then it was just scanned or photographed pictures with a layer on top with paths over it and coloured in on a layer under it by hand. So it is possible to have neat digital pictures without owning a tablet or a scanner in the first place. This was what I did for over a year too.

If you save your best drawings, then it will be less embarrassing when you look back on them all. I've gone back to my deviantart countless times and had to delete a lot of crappy unfinished work, it's not fun.

We get it, you're trying to say you don't think those drawings are very good, in a way that's so roundabout it almost seems like you might be trying to be helpful. Does that make you feel good about yourself?

The work you put the most effort into you feel better about in the long run. I can probably whip up a decent looking picture in half an hour, but chances are I'd delete it along the track because I really didn't put in as much as I could have. If you want valid advice for her I'd just say to practice shading as well as she goes along. She can already flat colour clearly, but there's no point in letting the line art go to waste. She'll feel a lot better about them later on if she does try to practice multiple skills at once.

You really shouldn't be seeking advice as a beginner, when you're not ready for it, it can be humiliating and hurtful.

Y'know what's hurtful? People telling you you're not ready for advice and that it will be humiliating, based on zero evidence. Look at Inquisitor Hein's advice. It's not humiliating or hurtful. In fact, it's very good advice, and so similar to the comments I would have made that I'm not going to make those comments any more.

Ok, that was probably my fault for wording it wrong. There is a difference between advice and direct critique. Critique being someone telling someone else directly what should have been changed about the specific picture, and I was just saying that a lot of people get offended by this, especially if they did put in their best effort.

Your best bet is to find tutorials on how to draw and colour and take it from there. Also, learn to use layers, and learn how to use the pen tool.

Computer drawing advice? Or merely just snark? It's hard to tell. Besides which, the majority of BF1221's drawings are clearly photographs of hand-drawn sketches.

I think you should refrain from offering advice until you learn how to give it.

Keep practising, keep posting the ones you want comments on in here, and ignore Bianca. Seriously. Ignore everything she's ever said. Focus on the advice from El-Man and Hein, and keep trying to get what's in your head down on paper.

Hahaha this is the most hilarious part of your short story. It was honest and important advice if she wants to keep going with digital art. Layers and the pen tool are pretty much the basis of digital art, they are just things you need to learn, especially layers. The pen tool also requires a lot of practice, they emphasise these things so much in my course and honestly I think it must be horrible for the people that never used it before, since over 100 pictures using it later my pen tool paths could probably still be a lot better than they are.

I'm not great at explaining things, I'll admit that much, but I'm pretty sure whatever advice I do try to give is valid, as I've been in exactly her position trying to learn this stuff. I first got into digital art because what I was doing wasn't good enough for a high quality art group, and things like layers, shading and the pen tool are the most important lessons for any beginner digital artist. If she doesn't want to take what I say, it's her loss.

If she wants to ignore her unpublished author, these are the things that did help me.
But remember, bf, he said to ignore everything I say, so it's up to you whether you want these or not.

Show spoiler

Colouring sketches digitally
Colouring in GIMP
Shading
Smooth outlines
Colouring eyes

These are really just things I'd saved mostly in the early days of me doing things like this..

[Reply #184 on:]

Bianca I'll look into those later when it's not after 3am and my computer isn't acting up and being slow due to my external hdd. Everytime I try to even open up PEEL on here the computer spazzes. As for tnuk telling me to not do something he knows I'll do what I want so him telling me not to listen to someone may or may not fall on deaf ears depending on if I have issues with the person or not. Or if what I feel they are suggesting has any merit.

I'm not looking to do digital art right now, Maybe later once I feel I'm up to snuff I'll start working on computerizing everything. Except my few attempts with coloring via the computer which I never did end up liking the results I really just do everything by hand and don't do anything else. I just want to draw and learn to color and shade things without use of the computer and then go from there. I've always had issues with the shading on anything I drew. I've had a teacher flat out tell me that I was horrible at drawing and art in general and that I should stop. She was a cunt.

I prefer to learn things manually then do them computerly or what ever the word is when I feel confident about the manual version. I don't know if that is weird or what but it's how I am with stuff. Hell I still write out entire papers for school in my notebooks before it even goes near the computer. Sometimes I do the same with posts.

I know how to edit digital photos because I took a digital photo class. So I do have some experience with layers but not specifically with layering with a drawing.

Edit:

I got my stuff working I'm going to try that later if I can get someone to scan my stuff for me. Just the basic coloring.

[Reply #185 on:]

Art is subjective. To some one pencil sketch is art. To others it's trash. When I had my art thread here it was some pencils and very basic MS Paints (as I didn't have Photoshop). I had to compete against the FemJesses of my time, so I wasn't expecting much out of it. But I thought what I did was pretty cool. And showing the process of making the art was cool for me too, but I mainly tried to stick to finished or close-to-finished pieces so that I wouln't put myself up on the chopping block from critics well more advanced than me.

(The photos finally loaded on dialup, yay) What I see on this page is pretty cool. It's not a 72 hour masterpiece that you would necessarily find on the ceiling of a cathedral, but it doesn't have to be. Looks like BendersFan likes to sketch, and more power to you.

I think sometimes, because we may put so much thought and effort into even what seems the simplest pieces, it can be a little difficult from the critiquer's side  to give advice that everyone will be sure won't necessarily offend. That being said, tone is everything. There is a big difference between just bashing someone's art, and giving the meaningful advice that they can learn from well into the future. I disagree with Bianca on the point of not seeking advice as a beginner, because that is how we learn from it. I think advice can be given to those of all levels, beginner and advanced. I don't think Bianca was necessarily trying to not give helpful advice, because tutorials can be helpful with this sort of thing. I myself never took one online though (dialup), but I had them through my university classes so I didn't really need to.

But since everyone's own artwork is understandable very dear to them, I can see how someone would get upset over being told that as a beginner they should go back to the drawing board (so to speak) and research first before they post more pieces. As I started this post, art is subjective, and like I said, for me, Bendersfan art is pretty cool and I don't look at it as a beginner (I can't even draw that anime style that she's doing). I might be considered a beginner in art because I can't draw from imagination. I have to do real-life drawings, so in essence, just copy stuff and make it look like the original. It's got no original thought or idea behind it, so to some artists out there my pieces may be very lackluster.

I think Hein has some good advice above. I haven't seen all of your work BF, but Hein is a fantastic artist so I'm pretty sure he's leading you down the path he would take.

As far as critiques go, I think it's best to encourage the artist with their work (give some postives), and then perhaps a few pointers they could improve on. Giving a critique made of only ways to improve upon themselves, whether helpful or not, can have a negative tone on the whole critique, which is why I can see we are having this discussion right now. So I think what w ehave here is not really about the art Bendersfan has provided, but by the critiquing process itself. And it's a very good and important discussion to have, and it's good that we are able to discuss it openly in such a diverse and multi-background forum as this one

[Reply #186 on:]

Tattoo idea:

[Reply #187 on:]

BF is apparently a Leo.

[Reply #188 on:]

Tattoo idea:

Too obscure. Get a big-ass dragon across your back.

[Reply #189 on:]

Surely the logical place for an ass-dragon is the ass, rather than the back?

[Reply #190 on:]

Ass is too small. Gotta cover the back in dragon.

[Reply #191 on:]

BF is apparently a Leo.

Yes, yes I am.

I don't want an ass tattoo.

[Reply #192 on:]

Ass-dragon you say? Our very own Femjesse made a design for that tattoo: http://femjesse.deviantart.com/art/Munchkin-Poop-Dragon-169766572

[Reply #193 on:]

Wow that's special and disturbing.

[Reply #194 on:]

A little stress doodle I did the other day:

[Reply #195 on:]

Quick sketch:

[Reply #196 on:]

I just made these:

[Reply #197 on:]

I like em, good job

[Reply #198 on:]

I'm back with some arty things.


Bender with a flower on his head and a random leaf. I just drew this really quick last night on a break. Drawn from memory, I haven't drawn Bender in ages. I need to learn how to draw flowers better also:



Knitted bunny I made for my grandma when she was recovering from internal bleeding. This was my first attempt at one it came out much better than my second attempt: