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Author Topic: Unloved by Al its The Simpsons season 15 "And Review Threads Make Three"  (Read 8823 times)
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SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #40 on: 04-04-2004 05:15 »

 
Quote
NONE OF THAT HAS ANY CHANCE OF HAPPENING.
Oh believe me, I know. The nightsweats won't let me forget.

And yeah, S15 is a slight step up. Still not approaching classic era quality IMHO. And it's still quite able to produce eps that make me want to gag (Margical History Tour anyone? Ugh).
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #41 on: 04-04-2004 08:36 »
« Last Edit on: 04-04-2004 08:36 »

To be fair most shows produce a few poor episodes a season. Futurama for one has had its share of bad episodes.
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #42 on: 04-04-2004 10:05 »

Quite frankly, I agree with everything SJM just said!
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #43 on: 04-04-2004 12:08 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
To be fair most shows produce a few poor episodes a season. Futurama for one has had its share of bad episodes.

Yep. And, for those who have forgotten those 'bad' episodes:

"Mars University" (season one)

"The Cryonic Woman" (season two)

"That's Lobstertainment", "Where the Buggalo Roam", "I Dated a Robot" "A Leela of Her Own", "A Pharaoh to Remember" (season three)

"Bend Her", "Spanish Fry" (season four)

Of course, I'm going by the ratings over at CGEF, which usually reflect the feelings of us here at PEEL. But, some of these may not be bad in some of our opinions. For example, I find "A Leela of Her Own" and "A Pharaoh to Remember" to be enjoyable episodes.

In comparison, 'bad' episodes from the past 4 seasons of The Simpsons:

"Homer Vs. Dignity", "Simpson Safari" (season 12)

"Homer the Moe", "The Lastest Gun in the West" (season 13)

"Helter Shelter", "Pray Anything", "Dude Where's My Ranch" (season 14)

"The Ziff Who Came to Dinner", "Margical History Tour" (season 15 so far)

Most of these 'bad' episodes are disliked by most of the Simpsons fans at PEEL. Of course, I may be forgetting some.

Anyway, you can see that, as user_names_suck said, both shows have had their share of bad episodes.

Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #44 on: 04-04-2004 13:18 »

Shove all those "bad" episodes of Futurama and The Simpsons together, and I wonder what would come out on top...
Ranadok

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #45 on: 04-04-2004 13:48 »

Well, most of the bad Simpsons episodes (especially in Scully era) are distorted, insultingly bad.  Most of the Futurama are "just lacking something/boring bad" or "annoying one-use character bad" (as far as I can tell, anyway). 
J.P. Diddy Wow

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #46 on: 04-04-2004 16:01 »

I liked all those "bad" episodes a lot. Especially "I Dated A Robot" and "Dude, Where's My Ranch".
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #47 on: 04-04-2004 18:07 »
« Last Edit on: 04-04-2004 18:07 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SlackJawedMoron:
 
And yeah, S15 is a slight step up. Still not approaching classic era quality IMHO. And it's still quite able to produce eps that make me want to gag (Margical History Tour anyone? Ugh).


Yeah, but how much does that actually matter anymore?

The classic era (1-8) is over.  But does that mean what's going on now is bad?  Sure there are a few bad eggs, but how many shows go through more then three or four seasons without at least one bomb?  Probably none.

If I restricted by viewing only to shows that were as good as seasons 1-8 of The Simpsons, the only thing I'd ever watch would be seasons 1-8 of The Simpsons.  That would mean that I wouldn't watch many of my all time favorite shows, like Futurama, The Daily Show, and The Wonder Years.  And I would never watch some other fine/enjoyable shows as well, like South Park, Family Guy, Saturday Night Live (during the good seasons), etc.

If you really aren't enjoying the current season at all, then there's nothing wrong with that.  You can just stop watching.  But to expect it to be as good as the classic era is just silly, and excludes you from seeing shows you may otherwise really enjoy.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Otis P Jivefunk:
Shove all those "bad" episodes of Futurama and The Simpsons together, and I wonder what would come out on top...

Futurama.

But again, that does not mean current Simpsons is bad or not worth watching.
bender+fry

Professor
*
« Reply #48 on: 04-04-2004 20:07 »

dothebartman is right, we shouldn't expect such high quality programme from our tv's. we should instead watch anything that the producers cram together, because it is the RIGHT thing to do.
SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #49 on: 04-04-2004 20:25 »

Ah... My Champion! <swoons>
CrazyDoc

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #50 on: 04-04-2004 20:33 »

bender&fry, quit it with the smartarse remarks. You know that's not what he said. Try using some logic - although that's something that seems to be sorely lacking among you Al Jean bashers.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #51 on: 04-04-2004 20:34 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by bender&fry:
dothebartman is right, we shouldn't expect such high quality programme from our tv's. we should instead watch anything that the producers cram together, because it is the RIGHT thing to do.


That's not what I'm saying and you know it.

What I'm saying is that its unfair to expect every new episode to be as good as the classic years.  Let's face it, seasons 1-8 are of The Simpsons are DAMN good television.  There are very few shows (none in my opinion, and that includes my beloved Futurama) that match it.

But, IMO, the new episodes are still a GOOD show.  Maybe not "A" quality like in the old days, but still a very good show nonetheless.  Its one thing to constantly complain about a show that's actually bad.  That's warranted (if a little silly to be watching something you consistantly hate).  What I'm saying is to just enjoy new episodes for what they are worth and not expect every episode to be as good as the classic years.  If you still don't enjoy them, fine; quit watching and stop clogging our threads with your stereotypical "last week's weeks episode wasn't as good as Last Exit to Springfield so therefore it sucks" crap that Simpsons fans have been putting up with since season four.  But don't force yourself to not like something simply because its not quite in its prime anymore.
J.P. Diddy Wow

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #52 on: 04-04-2004 21:07 »

I totally agree with everything DotheBartman just said.
Blackadder11

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #53 on: 04-04-2004 23:11 »
« Last Edit on: 04-04-2004 23:11 »

Today, FOX didn't have any new episodes, so, at least where I was, they played a full hour of old shows and chose Margical and Diatribes. Why pick two of the most hated episodes this season? Diatribe was bad, but I want to forget Margical as quickly as possible.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #54 on: 04-04-2004 23:38 »

Well, Fox doesn't read the fanboards.  They have no idea which ones people like and don't like.  Aside from ratings anyway.  Personally I think Diatribe is great anyway.

The next new one is on the 18th.  There's two theories as to why.  One is that they need to reserve some episodes for May sweeps, particularly now that Bernie Mac and Oliver Beene have both been dropped from the May schedule (Beene has been dropped period and permenentally).  I imagine there will probably be a double feature.  The other is that they want to reserve some episodes for next season in case the negotiations with the actors take too long.  I believe Hunka Hunka Burns in Love was held over into season 13 for similar reasons (notice season 12 has only 21 episodes).  I'm not sure which to go by but I'd say PROBABLY the former, or maybe a combination of the two.
Ranadok

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #55 on: 04-05-2004 05:06 »

I thought Diatribe was pretty good, myself.  I wouln't mind seeing it again.

Have there only been publicized contract disputes two times, so far?
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #56 on: 04-05-2004 13:36 »

I think it happens every 3 years, its happend after season 9,12 and now during 15. there was no problem before because they weren't asking for more money.
Woodbot 2.0

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #57 on: 04-05-2004 15:45 »
« Last Edit on: 04-05-2004 15:45 »

DotheBartman has some very good poits.
I agree with the second one the most because
this strike could go one for a long time.

Also Bart's on the April 9th addition of
Entertainment WeeklyHe has an A+ on his entetainment test and has  all the awensers wrote on his arms and legs.
The Simpsons are on 2 questions,too.
Sorry Idon't have a link.
------------------
Futrama:noun:T.V Show taken away by evil Fox Network
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #58 on: 04-05-2004 16:12 »
« Last Edit on: 04-05-2004 16:12 »

Well, to be fair, the good episodes this season FAR outwheigh the bad ones.

-Treehouse of Horror XIV B-
-My Mother the Carjacker A+
-The President Wore Pearls A
-The Regina Monologues B+
-The Fat and the Furriest C
-Today, I Am a Clown B
-'Tis the 15th Season A+
-Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless couples and Teens and Gays D-
-I, D'oh-bot A
-Diatribe of a Mad Housewife B+
-Margical History Tour D
-Milhouse Doesn't Live here Anymore B
-Smart and Smarter B+
-The Ziff That Came To Dinner D+
-Co-Dependents Day B-
-The Wandering Juvie B+

Besides, bad episodes aren't things that just started happening. They date way back to the days of "A Star Is Burns" and "Another Simpsons Clipshow".
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #59 on: 04-05-2004 16:37 »

But leelaholic, you just named the only two bad episodes of seasons 2-8. I didn't think "A Star Is Burns" was bad.
Anyway, here's MY ratings:
Treehouse of Horror XIV: 2/5
My Mother the Carjacker: 4/5
The President Wore Pearls: 3/5
The Regina Monologues: 2/5
The Fat and the Furriest: 1.5/5
Today, I Am a Clown: 3.5/5
'Tis the Fifeenth Season: 3/5
Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples and Teens and Gays: 0.5/5
I, D'oh-bot: 4/5
Diatribe of a Mad Housewife: 3.5/5
Margical History Tour: 1/5
Milhouse Doesn't Live here Anymore: 2/5
Smart and Smarter: 4/5
The Ziff That Came To Dinner: 3/5
Co-Dependents Day: 2/5
The Wandering Juvie: 2/5

Averaging this all out comes to 2.5625/5. Make with that what you will.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #60 on: 04-05-2004 17:06 »

"Treehouse of Horror XIV:C
"My Mother the Carjacker":A+
"The President Wore Pearls":A
"The Regina Monologues":B
"The Fat And The Furriest":B-
"Today, I Am Clown":C-
"Tis the Fifteenth Season":B+
"Marge Vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples, and Teens and Gays":C-
"I D'oh!Bot":A+
"Diatribe of a Mad Housewife":A+
"Margical History Tour":D
"Milhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore":B+
"Smart and Smarter":A-
"The Ziff That Came to Dinner":D
"Co-Dependents Day":A
"The Wandering Juvie":A

So, if you look at that list, this season's overall grade is about a B/B-, which is actually a pretty respectable grade.

Regarding "A Star is Burns", I don't find the story itself to be bad. The cameo by Jay Sherman is what ruined the episode. This isn't to say that I hated this one, because I actually found it to be a decent ep, it's just that (as Matt Groening has been attributed to saying) it was a half-hour long ad for The Critic. So, what I am trying to say is that this episode had a lot of potential and came out okay, but the staff of The Critic shouldn't have been brought in to write this episode that revolved around a character from another series (although I loved the episode "'Round Springfield", which was produced by the same crew). 
J.P. Diddy Wow

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #61 on: 04-05-2004 19:40 »

Am I the only person who liked "Margical History Tour"?
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #62 on: 04-05-2004 19:44 »

And my reviews

Treehouse of Horror XIV: 3.25/5
My Mother the Carjacker: 4/5
The President Wore Pearls: 4.5/5
The Regina Monologues: 2.5/5
The Fat and the Furriest: 2.5/5
Today, I Am a Clown: 4/5
'Tis the Fifeenth Season: 3.75/5
Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples and Teens and Gays: Missed it
I, D'oh-bot: 4/5

The rest have't aired in the U.K yet
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #63 on: 04-05-2004 22:03 »

A Star is Burns aint bad.  Just weak for the time.  There's plenty of 1-8 episodes that are weaker or on par with it really, like Bart's Elephant, Bart the Fink, Two Bad Neighbors, Homer's Odyssey, etc.  There aren't any episodes from 1-8 that I don't at least like actually (possible exception of Clip Show #2) but again 1-8 was a DAMN good show.  Even among the best of television, it was the exception, not the norm.  So even great shows like Futurama produce an occasional dud or two.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #64 on: 04-06-2004 07:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 
That's not what I'm saying and you know it.

What I'm saying is that its unfair to expect every new episode to be as good as the classic years.  Let's face it, seasons 1-8 are of The Simpsons are DAMN good television.  There are very few shows (none in my opinion, and that includes my beloved Futurama) that match it.

But, IMO, the new episodes are still a GOOD show.  Maybe not "A" quality like in the old days, but still a very good show nonetheless.  Its one thing to constantly complain about a show that's actually bad.  That's warranted (if a little silly to be watching something you consistantly hate).  What I'm saying is to just enjoy new episodes for what they are worth and not expect every episode to be as good as the classic years.  If you still don't enjoy them, fine; quit watching and stop clogging our threads with your stereotypical "last week's weeks episode wasn't as good as Last Exit to Springfield so therefore it sucks" crap that Simpsons fans have been putting up with since season four.  But don't force yourself to not like something simply because its not quite in its prime anymore.

OK, I accept that. But surely that's an argument for ending the show?

If you know it will never top it's best, then why keep going? Otherwise it just becomes like every other show out there; "We kept going because <insert network name> kept throwing money at us".

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I do have one question for you, DtB : where do you see the show going? Do you want it to keep going forever and ever? Or do you want it to stop at some point (not necessarily in the near-future, but eventually)?

As I say, don't read this as being sarcastic/antagonistic, because I'm genuinely curious.

I agree that Season 15 has been fine, and as you say, better than most other stuff on TV. But is that a good enough reason to just keep going? I'll trot out the fast-becoming-cliche "that's more of a statement on the quality of modern TV than on the quality of the show" statement (even as I hate myself for doing it  wink).

But as I see it, shows are rarely remembered for length (except when other shows come round to beat the length record). They're remembered generally for ending - and then nostalgia can kick in.  tongue

The fact is, at the moment, while the show is "acceptable", it's not as good as it was in Seasons 1-8, and by your own admission, probably never will be again. So what's the problem with calling it quits, saying "we had a great run of 8 seasons, a dip for 3 or 4 seasons, and then a good run towards the end"?

I'm afraid to say if I were in charge of FOX's timetable, I'd let the Simpsons finish at Season 16 (this is a notable improvement from Season 11, where I'd have axed the show mid-season).

I know you've probably heard this before, but I feel as though FOX is relying too heavily on "The Simpsons" to carry it's Sunday programming. This means that newer shows (not necessarily just Futurama) don't get the support they need, and because FOX realises they can just fall back on The Simpsons, they don't bother to try to make them work (Note: "making them work" is not necessarily the same as "getting involved", in fact I'm thinking more in the "letting them get on with their job" department).

(This is not a bitter "Futurama should have succeeded the Simpsons" rant, because I understand only too well that the demographics for the two shows are markedly different (and I like it that way)).
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #65 on: 04-06-2004 10:52 »

Mostly I think The Simpsons should continue as long as its entertaining.  If it starts to dip into 10-12 territory again, then it should end, but as long as it remains at its current level (or better) I think it should keep going.  I will admit that in the past (even during season 13, which I really enjoyed at the time and felt was a huge improvement) I've often felt that the show should end soon, so it can be remembered for 1-8.  But now....what's the point?  Its gone on for so long past its "prime" that canceling it for posterity would be pretty silly, and really the better option is just let it keep going and hopefully continue to restore itself.

With that all said, I would say that it should probably end within the next few years, if only to avoid seeping into that 10-12 territory again, and so that some of the essential people (like Groening and the voice cast) don't finally get too tired of it.  But I don't think that needs to happen just yet.

In terms of Fox's behavior, I both agree and disagree.  I think Fox is right to at least partially bank on The Simpsons.  Its their hugest hit really (certainly the biggest of the Sunday line up) and it has always been the anchor of that line up since the show moved back there from Thursdays.  I do agree that they have allowed a lot of other shows to suffocate, but I think that's more about mistakes made with those individual shows, as opposed to focusing too much on The Simpsons (the 8:00 slot would be ideal for a lot of those shows, but we can't really blame Fox for keeping The Simpsons where they know it will be hugely successful). The mistake they made with Futurama, for instance, was putting it in a pretty lousy slot (along with moving it around a lot prior) and not even advertising it.  Putting it at 8:30 or even 7:30, along with actually running some ads, would have helped it a lot.
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #66 on: 04-06-2004 13:30 »

Yeah I agree it can keep going as its redeeming itself, If 16 is suddenly a huge dip again maybe it should stop. but then again there will surley be a new showrunner for 17 so there talent and there ideas could really lift the show back even further towards classic quality.
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #67 on: 04-06-2004 15:55 »

Or he may not.  hmpf
bender+fry

Professor
*
« Reply #68 on: 04-06-2004 20:18 »

sorry about my previous post. failing a important test turns me into a monster.
Woodbot 2.0

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #69 on: 04-06-2004 20:25 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by J.P. Diddy Wow:
Am I the only person who liked "Margical History Tour"?

I do,too.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #70 on: 04-06-2004 21:36 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
Yeah I agree it can keep going as its redeeming itself, If 16 is suddenly a huge dip again maybe it should stop. but then again there will surley be a new showrunner for 17 so there talent and there ideas could really lift the show back even further towards classic quality.


I agree that season 15 is the best in years, and that The Simpsons should go on until it is continuously awful as seasons 10-12 were.

But, I'm not sure about another showrunner for season 17 (assuming there is one, which there most likely will be). I mean, Al Jean has shown his love and interest in his job, both in interviews and on the DVD commentaries, so I can't really see him resigning as showrunner. Sure, it is a difficult job, but not as hard as it was when the staff was comparatively smaller in the early years. But, I could be wrong, I guess we'll just have to see.

And, if Mr. Jean did stop running the show, I'm not sure if there could be a replacement who would do as good a job. In my opinion, what makes him so good at his job is the fact that he worked during a good portion (about half) of the Golden-Age (roughly seasons 1-8), was a showrunner for seasons 3 and 4, and he is a genuinely funny guy and writer. So, he can produce an episode that is funny, character-driven, and sometimes touching, just like many great episodes from seasons 1-8. In comparison, he can also pull off an episode that is just silly or a blatant parody (i.e. "Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiali(D'oh!)scious) with good taste, unlike many Scully-era episodes. And, if you think about it, Al Jean is one of the only guys with enough skill to pull The Simpsons out of a three-year rut.

But, we have seen alot of great Simpsons writers in the past, and a few possible (albeit unlikely) candidates for Jean's job are John Swartzwelder, Jon Vitti, and Mike Reiss.

Although, as I've already said, it'd be hard to replace him. 

Dr. Morberg

Professor
*
« Reply #71 on: 04-06-2004 21:43 »

But the problem with your arguments is that you are people who have watched the show from the beginning. The people who are keeping The Simpsons on the air are the casual Simpsons watchers and the ones who started watching recently. Many of my friends think that the new episodes are great, and they really like seasons 10-12, since they never saw earlier ones. These people have never seen the "classic simpsons", so they don't know if storylines have been reused or if they don't make any sense. The problem with it running so long (and a benefit to fox) is that they can use the same basic storyline several times and since the last time that story was used was at least 6 years ago, there will be new viewers and people who don't remember the basis for the original episode. The only Homer they know is the jerkass one, not the one who cares for his family but is somewhat stupid. If you watch a show from the beginning to season 15, it might seem a little boring and that all the jokes are used, but to the new simpsons fans, it's all new, and for that reason, it will run for several more seasons.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #72 on: 04-06-2004 23:31 »

Swartzwelder's too reclusive (and I believe has been offered the job before, and turned it down).  Vitti has been offered before and turned it down.  Reiss didn't team up with Jean again for season 13 because he didn't want to work full-time in hollywood anymore.  But I suppose he's a possibility.  I don't know who would replace Jean though.

As for the whole new vs. old school fan thing, remember also that many people HAVE been watching since the beginning or some point in the classic days, but still enjoy the show or even haven't noticed a decline at all.  I don't think its exclusively that lots of fans started watching in 10-12 (although I am sure there are plenty such fans, including myself shockingly enough).  Its just in general a very popular show still.  The people saying the show should be cancelled or whatever have always been the minority.  A bigger minority now perhaps, but still clearly the minority.  And they've been around since season 3 or 4.
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #73 on: 04-07-2004 14:11 »

Gorky I've assumed Jeans resigning after season 16
to work on the movie, since its confirmed that he's on the team, unless Reiss is lying.
David Mirkin currently works as a consulting producer (I think) I dont know If he'd do it again or if he'd be the Ideal replacement.
I dont know what Oakley and Weinstien are up to or if they'd want to do it again.
It could get offered to someone currnetly on the team now. we dont really know if they'd want to do it or if they'd be the right person for the job.
Of course they could just find someone outside the team, they did it with Mirkin so why not do it again.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #74 on: 04-07-2004 16:05 »

I have a feeling Ian Maxtone-Graham will take over. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #75 on: 04-07-2004 16:15 »

Why, is he rubbish?
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #76 on: 04-07-2004 16:35 »

Let's just say he's not particularly popular with the online Simpsons community (or at least wasn't).

Look about the internet for a review dating around 98/99 (I think it's on snpp.com) and you might see why.  wink
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #77 on: 04-07-2004 18:56 »

Basically Maxtone-graham  admitted in an interview that he didn't used to watch the show before he joined the staff. and he made some snippy comments towards the internet fans.(Although he probably actually had a point)
I think people are a little unfair though I mean he said he didn't watch the show but he also said that he rarley watched T.V at all and preferd to read so he's probably not such a dumb schmuk like scully.
I think he came in season 7 so at the time Oakley and Weinstein would have been able to take him through it and point out when things aren't really true to the characters. but of course this changes when scully takes over.
Apparently The Very Tall Man seen in 22 short films about springfield is a caricature of him. (If he also talks like him then its understandble they'd want to keep him in the office.)
3/4 of a Jesus

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #78 on: 04-07-2004 19:02 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by leelaholic:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Otis P Jivefunk:
What about the ladies?...
Ladies? At PEEL? Ha!


AHEM?!?! I am a proud female nerd, thank you
  big grin
Xmpel

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #79 on: 04-07-2004 19:23 »

No, you're a proud ignoramus.

Anyways, I saw an episode about Homer getting scared by a bear or something and I starte crying with laughter. Not because it was a funny episode but just because it was the worst ever episode of The series ever !

I just couldn't stop laughing at how silly it was, I mean, they couldn't have come up with anything better and more down to earth than Homer chasing a bear dressed up like an idiot ?

Are you even supposed to be able to relate to this show anymore ? Even Futurama was more down to Earth and it's settled a thousand years forward in time.

This is by far the worst ever episode of any Tv-series.
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