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Author Topic: Simpsons Season 15 Review Thread: Crap... or not?  (Read 7837 times)
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evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #320 on: 01-03-2004 02:35 »
« Last Edit on: 01-03-2004 02:35 »

I agree with LAN. I'm all for spontaneous wackiness, but if they have to cut something, they should cut the first act. One huge problem with modern Simpsons' episodes is that the plot seems rushed. Maybe if they cut out all the opening junk, then they could have the room to tell a cohesive story. (Yes, I do know that they've always done non-sequiter openings)

A Non-Sequiter TOTPD.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #321 on: 01-03-2004 06:00 »

The nothingness beginnings are just a lame, wacky fest of pointless nothingness jokes which water down the rest of the episode, and are just shit really...
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #322 on: 01-04-2004 00:20 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 00:20 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Otis P Jivefunk:
The nothingness beginnings are just a lame, wacky fest of pointless nothingness jokes which water down the rest of the episode, and are just shit really...


So you're saying Radio Bart had a shit opening?

Seriously...a lot of people I've debated with in here have actually made good points and tried to explain their position.  You've made nothing but broad "everything the show does now is shit" comments that don't say anything, let alone why you're saying them.  For the love of god, try actually contributing.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #323 on: 01-04-2004 07:05 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 07:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 So you're saying Radio Bart had a shit opening?

Seriously...a lot of people I've debated with in here have actually made good points and tried to explain their position.  You've made nothing but broad "everything the show does now is shit" comments that don't say anything, let alone why you're saying them.  For the love of god, try actually contributing.

An opinion is a contribution. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't automatically make it invalid. Choosing a Season 3 episode as a comparison, in a Season 15 thread is just desperate. It doesn't strengthen your case. You know just as well as I do that it's a really good Simpsons ep, as do many other people. Try making a more fair comparison, in context to what I actually said, to an episode, which isn't over a decade old. Like that ep where Bart's being chased by that dog for over quarter of the episode. Sure it isn't a Season 15 ep, but it's a hell of a lot newer than 'Radio Bart', and unlike 'Radio Bart', is relevant to what I actually said.

The point I was making was obvious to anyone, other than die-hard Simpsons fans, who seem to manage to blind themselves from all of the crap before their eyes, and tell themselves they are enjoying it. So much so, that they actually believe it. And by that, I'm not saying every new Simpsons episode is crap, I'm saying that die-hard Simpsons fans seem to blind themselves to the crap elements of the show. One of those being the point of my previous post.

You clearly didn't choose a modern episode as a comparison, because it wouldn't hold up as a strong case. This action in itself, proves that underneath that barrier, the subconscious can accidentally let the truth break through...

It's not a fair comparison because The Simpsons has changed a hell of a lot since 'Radio Bart'. The crap elements I'm referring to weren't present in that episode. It didn't have a nothingness beginning. Misquoting me, saying that I said "everything the show does now is shit", is just pathetic. I didn't say that, and I didn't mean that either, you know I didn't.

'Radio Bart's' beginning wasn't a nothingness beginning. It actually had a point, and made jokes and references to popular culture that were actually funny. It grabbed the attention of the viewer; instead of bore them to death like a real nothingness beginning. And it wasn't filled with wacky lame-ass jokes either.
 
The reason I made that post is because it's truly how I feel, and I know many other people do too. I just wanted to actually come out and say it. I knew full well that an over-zealous Simpsons fan would quote and argue against it.  Some Simpsons fans need to accept that not everyone likes everything about the show, and deal with it. And is this contribution enough under what constitutes contribution, under your 'meaning'?...


User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #324 on: 01-04-2004 10:40 »

I think the point about radio bart was that there's a long opening before the story actually starts, Its the same with the otto show and the return of homer's half brother the main story doesn't kick in for about 10 minutes, and I've already explained why do that several times anyway.

And the show's wackiness can probably be traced back to season 2 in 'Bart the daredevil' or possibly even season 1 'The crepes of wrath' with the albanian spy and evil french winemakers
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #325 on: 01-04-2004 12:29 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 12:29 »

When will Sky1 show the episodes where the Simpsons go to the UK? Is it today because I’m not sure?

Tweek

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #326 on: 01-04-2004 12:41 »

No it is on Friday at 8pm according to my TV guide.
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #327 on: 01-04-2004 12:44 »

Oh thanks alot Tweek.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #328 on: 01-04-2004 12:48 »

Yeah, it's Friday for "The Regina Monologues". Tonight it's "Fat and the Furriest".
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #329 on: 01-04-2004 13:33 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 13:33 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
I think the point about radio bart was that there's a long opening before the story actually starts, Its the same with the otto show and the return of homer's half brother the main story doesn't kick in for about 10 minutes, and I've already explained why do that several times anyway.

The original point was about nothingness openings, not long openings. As you and I know, they're not the same thing. As you've already explained, I've also partially explained, long openings do have a purpose. Why 'Radio Bart' was relevant in a discussion about nothingness beginnings, in a thread about Season 15 is down to DotheBartman, who confused the two.

   
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
And the show's wackiness can probably be traced back to season 2 in 'Bart the daredevil' or possibly even season 1 'The crepes of wrath' with the albanian spy and evil french winemakers

And there's no point trying to defend The Simpsons wackiness. A few occasional elements of wackiness per season, together with well rounded stories, with emotional moments, jokes that are actually funny, satire on many different levels, pop culture references, and much more. Compared with modern Seasons of The Simpsons, with countless wacky moments, because the ideas are running dry. Many of which, would never have made it past the cutting board during the Seasons you're referring to. Not all modern episodes are like this, but the modern Seasons as wholes are. Unlike the Seasons you're referring to.
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #330 on: 01-04-2004 17:45 »

*groan* No, Otis, an opinion of a show you don't even watch is NOT a contribution. If anything, it's an annoyance and just as pointless as fuck
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #331 on: 01-04-2004 18:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Otis P Jivefunk:
  An opinion is a contribution. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't automatically make it invalid.


My problem is that every "opinion" you've posted (previous to the post I'm responding to at the moment) has, again, been some stereotypical Comic Book Guy "everything the show does sucks now because its new" crap.  I don't mind people stating their negative opinions.  I even agree that a lot of newer openings should have their pointless tangents trimmed down.  But it doesn't help anything to make these bland, stereotypical posts that don't actually say why you're making these complaints.  (And for the record, you're not the only one I was frustrated with.  I just kind of snapped in this case because I'd seen so many posts like that in this thread by that point, plus your post seems to suggest you didn't even bother reading my previous posts about the pointless beginnings).

 
Quote
Choosing a Season 3 episode as a comparison, in a Season 15 thread is just desperate. It doesn't strengthen your case. You know just as well as I do that it's a really good Simpsons ep, as do many other people. Try making a more fair comparison, in context to what I actually said, to an episode, which isn't over a decade old. Like that ep where Bart's being chased by that dog for over quarter of the episode. Sure it isn't a Season 15 ep, but it's a hell of a lot newer than 'Radio Bart', and unlike 'Radio Bart', is relevant to what I actually said.

How is "Radio Bart" irrelevent?  Much of the negativity toward newer episodes, including from me mind you, is that they don't correspond closely enough with the classics in spirit.  I love Radio Bart, I'm not disagreeing with its greatness. I even put it at number six when I created a top 50 episodes list (and for the record that list contained nothing from past "The Cartridge Family", although I did almost put Moe Baby Blues in there).  I was playing devil's advocate by point out that it (and other classic era episodes) have the same "problem" of pointless beginnings and strangely structured plots that many people claim are exclusive to the newer episodes, when that is hardly the case.

As for Lastest Gun in the West (the one with the dog chasing Bart) I like that episode but I wasn't so crazy about the opening either...but that's actually less relevant to my points then Radio Bart because it isn't a "classic" episode I can use to point out that the show has always had some pointless beginnings.  See?


 
Quote
The point I was making was obvious to anyone, other than die-hard Simpsons fans, who seem to manage to blind themselves from all of the crap before their eyes, and tell themselves they are enjoying it. So much so, that they actually believe it. And by that, I'm not saying every new Simpsons episode is crap, I'm saying that die-hard Simpsons fans seem to blind themselves to the crap elements of the show. One of those being the point of my previous post.

No, I still give bad grades and have lots of problems with the show, stop generalizing.  Just check out the archives of review threads at the NHC, every thread (other then Regina Monologues) has a review from me (and you can also see the opinions from other people in those threads that are similar to mine in various ways).  Here's how it wen't though, to provide some context.

Season 13: My reviews are mostly positive, but not perfect.  I like the majority of the episodes (at least past the Scully ones), but also had at least slight problems with most of them and the majority fell somewhere into "B" category.  "Little Girl in the Big Ten" got a perfect score, but I also gave a few fairly bad ones, such as to "Weekend at Burnsies".

Season 14: Very mixed, to say the least.  As ironic as this may seem considering most of what I've posted here, I was actually somewhat infamous for a while for hating just about every episode in season 14 for a long time.  I didn't substantially enjoy any of the DABF holdovers, or most of the first EABF ones either, and most of my grades fell somewhere in "D" territory for a while (Pray Anything and Large Marge both got "F"s).  Closer to the end though, I felt that it was picking up and my grades became more mixed then truly bad overall, and I started giving some positive ratings.

Season 15: So far, a little mixed but I've enjoyed it overall.  I've liked most episodes to some degree and have given three "A" grades.  But, I'm not just mindlessly praising, as I gave "Today, I am a Clown" a "B" and explained some problems with it, and even gave "Fat and the Furriest" a "D+" which is hardly a positive grade at all.

So, I'm not "blinding" myself to the bad aspects.  I always evaluate the good and bad in each episode and then sum up my overall opinion.  Sometimes that opinion is good, sometimes its bad, and it all-too often WAS pretty bad in season 14.  Don't stereotype.

 
Quote
You clearly didn't choose a modern episode as a comparison, because it wouldn't hold up as a strong case. This action in itself, proves that underneath that barrier, the subconscious can accidentally let the truth break through...
As I said before, a more modern episode like "Lastest Gun..." DOESN'T work for my point because it IS a modern episode.  I was pointing out that the "problems" some people claim to be exclusive to the modern episodes were in fact often in the older episodes too.  Maybe not to the same degree (if anything the Scully era was one big exxageration of season 5), but those "problems" WERE there.  Just reiterating that again.

 
Quote
It's not a fair comparison because The Simpsons has changed a hell of a lot since 'Radio Bart'. The crap elements I'm referring to weren't present in that episode. It didn't have a nothingness beginning. Misquoting me, saying that I said "everything the show does now is shit", is just pathetic. I didn't say that, and I didn't mean that either, you know I didn't.

'Radio Bart's' beginning wasn't a nothingness beginning. It actually had a point, and made jokes and references to popular culture that were actually funny. It grabbed the attention of the viewer; instead of bore them to death like a real nothingness beginning. And it wasn't filled with wacky lame-ass jokes either.

Radio Bart's opening was "nothingness" because it had next to nothing to do with the rest of the episode.  The rest of the episode is about Bart tricking the town, and then falling into the well himself (in fact, in all honesty even acts two and three are structured oddly in relation to each other, as we don't even see Bart stuck in the well until act three).  Act one is about Bart's birthday and a bunch of wacky antics involving Wall E. Weasel's and Bart doing things with coupons.  Aside from him getting the radio (which he doesn't use until a quarter of the way through act two) there's very little relevance to the rest of the episode.

As for the quality of the jokes, that's all opinion.  I happen to agree that all of the jokes in Radio Bart's opening were funny.  However, I don't really remember very many pop-culture references (not that pop-culture references automatically make something good either-check out "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes" and you'll see what I mean), as most of them seemed to be contained in acts two and three.  And it can't be denied that many of the gags were still fairly "wacky" in some way, like much of Wall E. Weasel's (which for the record is one of my favorite sequences ever), or Bart's wacky usages of coupons.  Its maybe not as wacky as some later ones, although I'd actually say the wackiness level wasn't too much different from the first acts of most season 15 openings so far, or a lot of season 14 openings for that matter.

Oh, and maybe you didn't mean that "all new stuff sucks", but it sure came off that way.  Not one post (again previous to the one I'm responding to here) you made said anything positive about newer episodes from what I could remember, and they all came off as saying "everything the show does not sucks. PASS". 
 
 
Quote
The reason I made that post is because it's truly how I feel, and I know many other people do too. I just wanted to actually come out and say it. I knew full well that an over-zealous Simpsons fan would quote and argue against it.  Some Simpsons fans need to accept that not everyone likes everything about the show, and deal with it. And is this contribution enough under what constitutes contribution, under your 'meaning'?...


Its all well and good to state your opinion.  As I said, a lot of people in this thread that I've debated with have made good points.  They not only stated their opinions, but backed them up with generally good explanations (whether I agreed with them or not) and even considered mine.  You seemed to have completely overlooked my posts (particularly the ones about pointless beginnings), and (again) just seemed to be making the usual stereotypical comments that I've gotten sick of, so I snapped a little.  Perhaps I overreacted, but again that was my position. 

As for the "contribution" level of your post this time, you seem to have misinterpereted (or ignored) many of my points, but at least now you're saying more then bland and stereotypical one or two sentence things.

newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #332 on: 01-04-2004 19:00 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 19:00 »

Spoiler for the new episode that is on tonight.

User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #333 on: 01-04-2004 19:01 »

Well the fat and the furriest aired It was  alright actually quite enjoyable. Didn't think it was too wacky.
Although maybe its just me but somehow scully episodes felt more like seasons 2-8 than 14 and 15
(although the new ones in the u.k  have still been holdovers) I think its because the show had been getting crazier through each season so the scully era almost seemed like a natrual progression, sometimes the new jean stuff's emotion and stories seems more formulaic and forced. and it feels less like simpsons to me I dont know why

By the way for those of us In the U.K Sky one have decided to move new simpsons episodes to friday at 8pm, today marked the end of the 6:30pm on a sunday schedule, although I dont think it means the end of showing new eps a few weeks apart.
To my mind this seems like a good move dont if its good for others though
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #334 on: 01-04-2004 21:03 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 21:03 »

Really liked tonight's episode. The pacing was good and Marge played her best role in ages. Heh, for some reason, I thought the first act in particular was hilarious (Maggie's Raffi music) and Lindsey Neagle, one of the dumbest characters, had a great role. A very nice social commentary and some jokes were, well, pretty brilliant (Homer's immitation of the yes guy in particular   laff ).

Season 15 top five

1. My Mother the Carjacker
2. 'Tis the Fifteenth Season
3. The President Wore Pearls
4. Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples, and Teens and Gays
5. Today, I Am A Clown

Great episode   smile
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #335 on: 01-04-2004 21:11 »

Actually, Homer's imitation was perfect, because I think Dan Castellenta plays the mmmYES! guy. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
Anyway, this episode sucked balls! I'm sorry, but this episode made no sense. I don't get why the town is torturing these little kids. It had a few laughs, but every Simpsons has its moments. But this one was just... weird. Weird and not that funny. Grade: 1.5/5

MY Season 15 listing
1. My Mother the Carjacker
2. 'Tis the Fifteenth Season
3. The President Wore Pearls
4. Today, I Am A Clown
5. The Regina Monolgues
6. The Fat and the Furriest
7. Treehouse of Horror XIV
8. Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples... etc.
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #336 on: 01-04-2004 21:24 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 21:24 »

hm... I can't say I agree but I can still see where you're coming from. It had one or two problems but it didn't really bother me. As for the yes guy thing, what I liked was how Dan made it go almost directly from Homer's voice to the yes guy's. That's all.

Edit: Wait! I just realized that Simon Cowell wasn't in this! Also, Marge was never on the radio! WTF?
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #337 on: 01-04-2004 22:07 »

My full review can be seen at NHC and is much more detailed then this.  In any case, I felt it was decent but fairly "empty".  C+/B-
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #338 on: 01-04-2004 22:11 »

The Steve Irwin bit at the beginning could have been better.  Steve Irwin would never  cry out in pain.  Instead he would calmly make an observation, like this: "Ooh, crikey.  That smarts.  The crocodile just bit my leg right off."

The best line of the episode was from Comic Book Guy: "I only sign petitions to bring back cancelled sitcoms."

Speak softly. Drive a Sherman tank.
homerjaysimpson

Space Pope
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« Reply #339 on: 01-04-2004 22:17 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 22:17 »

Tonight's new episode was so bad I will stop watching The Simpsons.....again.

The baby plot was lame and unfunny. The rest of the plot was the same,Kinda "wacky" in some way.   tongue

It looked like a story that would be in a Simpsons Comic. Most (70%) of those are pretty crapy stories by the way made for 12-16 year olds. Futurama Comics are kinda ok.

Anything to make these bland "nothingness" who seem to manage to blind themselves watching The New Simpsons. Show's wackiness can quatify the shows newness because they can not come up with any new jokes or plot.Blah blah blah blah blah.....ect.
John C
Starship Captain
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« Reply #340 on: 01-04-2004 22:30 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 22:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by leelaholic:
Edit: Wait! I just realized that Simon Cowell wasn't in this! Also, Marge was never on the radio! WTF?

Hey, that is really weird.   confused

Anyway, this episode characterized Marge very well, but other than that, it was a flop. The whole episode was low on jokes, the end was pretty boring, and the whole "check/devil" thing was odd and repetitive. Actually a lot of jokes were likes that (the end of the garage scene, the dining area being abandoned). At first this episode seemed good, but I started to wonder when it was going to pick up, then I realized it didn't pick up.   hmpf
bankrupt

Urban Legend
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« Reply #341 on: 01-04-2004 22:38 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2004 22:38 »

I sympathize with the childless Springfielders trying to limit their exposure to children in tonights episode.  Unfortunately, what seems like it could have been a good storyline was part of a thoroughly awful episode.  This one seemed like it was just a string of setups for wacky jokes to me.  I found the ending (the children interfering with the voting) to be especially bad.  What exactly were they supposed be doing? Giving the voters a disease? Stopping them from voting by hugging them?  What a dumb way of ending the episode.  DotheBartman's description of the episode as "empty" seems apt, except I don't consider it decent otherwise.  I give it an F.  It gave me the feeling of watching the crappy tennis episode again.  Yuck.


Edited for poor homophone usage.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #342 on: 01-04-2004 22:39 »

I didn't like it because the plot generaly didn't make much sense. That in itself wouldn't be a bad thing it there wasn't a lack of laugh out loud funny jokes, you need one or the other for a good episode of the Simpsons. I give it 2 out of 5 or a C- and that's only because everyone stayed in character. First real stinker of  Season 15 IMO.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #343 on: 01-05-2004 02:45 »

"The Fat and the Furriest" wasn't as bad as I though t it was going to be, but it still wasn't great. There were a couple of jokes I liked (the "Reserved for DVDs" being chief among them  wink) but the plot still seemed like it was constantly being prodded along because it had lost momentum.

I did notice at least one thing that probably would have been different in the Scully era : when Homer picks the Flandereses off the candy ball, he probably would have thrown them out the door or something.

However, I do have one big quibble : why do the writers think hurting Homer is inherently funny? Every episode I've seen so far this season has Homer crying out in pain for some reason, and it just gets tiresome very quickly. In fact, it's one of the things which brings The Simpsons closer to being a cartoon, rather than animation. And I much prefer the latter.
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #344 on: 01-05-2004 06:29 »

The Fat and the Furriest: I thought it was ok. But it’s not funny.

User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #345 on: 01-05-2004 16:25 »

I rember there weres 2 real quality lines in fat and furriest but I've forgotten them
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #346 on: 01-05-2004 17:12 »

That episode sucks, Bair Armour? BAIR ARMOUR!
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #347 on: 01-05-2004 18:09 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by leelaholic:
*groan* No, Otis, an opinion of a show you don't even watch is NOT a contribution. If anything, it's an annoyance and just as pointless as fuck

*yawn* Just like your post then. What a wonderful ‘contribution’ to this thread. I never said I don’t even watch the show, I specifically said "Season 15". Of course I watch the show, get your facts right...

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
My problem is that every "opinion" you've posted (previous to the post I'm responding to at the moment) has, again, been some stereotypical Comic Book Guy "everything the show does sucks now because its new" crap. I don't mind people stating their negative opinions. I even agree that a lot of newer openings should have their pointless tangents trimmed down. But it doesn't help anything to make these bland, stereotypical posts that don't actually say why you're making these complaints. (And for the record, you're not the only one I was frustrated with. I just kind of snapped in this case because I'd seen so many posts like that in this thread by that point, plus your post seems to suggest you didn't even bother reading my previous posts about the pointless beginnings).

Sure, my opinions have been on the negative side, it’s a question of balance, and for me the negative has now outbalanced the positive, hence my posts. It’s how a felt, so I said it. I wasn’t being totally serious in all of my posts, they weren’t all meant in serious ways, and to be taken this seriously. They did have a meaning though, they made the point, and sometimes less is more. Like with a joke, when explained, is wasted. And if I justified everything I said, most of my posts would end up as long as yours...

Just to put some positives in, I do love some of the newer eps. Ok, so it may not be that new anymore, but it’s still kinda new. ‘Trilogy of Error’ surpassed many eps from even the so called ‘classic’ Seasons, in my opinion.  However, because I disliked so many recent episodes, I started to lose my interest, and have gradually lost track of the very newest eps. I grew tired of digging my way through entire Seasons for the few nuggets inside. It wasn’t enough payoff for me. This is why I’m not familiar with the titles of many of the eps from the latest few Seasons. Also, they’re pretty forgettable too...

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
How is "Radio Bart" irrelevent? Much of the negativity toward newer episodes, including from me mind you, is that they don't correspond closely enough with the classics in spirit. I love Radio Bart, I'm not disagreeing with its greatness. I even put it at number six when I created a top 50 episodes list (and for the record that list contained nothing from past "The Cartridge Family", although I did almost put Moe Baby Blues in there). I was playing devil's advocate by point out that it (and other classic era episodes) have the same "problem" of pointless beginnings and strangely structured plots that many people claim are exclusive to the newer episodes, when that is hardly the case.
As for Lastest Gun in the West (the one with the dog chasing Bart) I like that episode but I wasn't so crazy about the opening either...but that's actually less relevant to my points then Radio Bart because it isn't a "classic" episode I can use to point out that the show has always had some pointless beginnings. See?

Yes ‘Radio Bart’ is relevant to the point you were making, but what I was saying, is the point you were making wasn’t relevant to the point I was making. My point is that if it has a point, it’s not nothingness, even if the point wasn’t connected to the main story (the point which I explained above). The ‘nothingness’ I was referring to was about filler for time, like the dog ep; ‘Latest Gun in the West’. That title rings a bell now.

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
No, I still give bad grades and have lots of problems with the show, stop generalizing. Just check out the archives of review threads at the NHC, every thread (other then Regina Monologues) has a review from me (and you can also see the opinions from other people in those threads that are similar to mine in various ways). Here's how it wen't though, to provide some context.

So, I'm not "blinding" myself to the bad aspects. I always evaluate the good and bad in each episode and then sum up my overall opinion. Sometimes that opinion is good, sometimes its bad, and it all-too often WAS pretty bad in season 14. Don't stereotype.

I was generalizing, because believe it or not, I wasn’t just talking about you. True, you do evaluate the good and bad, perhaps you find more good than me. Good for you. The "blinding" comment was more of a generalized statement, aimed at people who always give episodes the highest mark, regardless of content. If you go to ‘No Homers Club’, I’m sure you’ll now what I mean...

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
As I said before, a more modern episode like "Lastest Gun..." DOESN'T work for my point because it IS a modern episode. I was pointing out that the "problems" some people claim to be exclusive to the modern episodes were in fact often in the older episodes too. Maybe not to the same degree (if anything the Scully era was one big exxageration of season 5), but those "problems" WERE there. Just reiterating that again.

I understand your point, but the reason "Latest Gun in the West" "DOESN’T" work for your point, is as I said above. Your point is different to mine.

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Radio Bart's opening was "nothingness" because it had next to nothing to do with the rest of the episode. The rest of the episode is about Bart tricking the town, and then falling into the well himself (in fact, in all honesty even acts two and three are structured oddly in relation to each other, as we don't even see Bart stuck in the well until act three). Act one is about Bart's birthday and a bunch of wacky antics involving Wall E. Weasel's and Bart doing things with coupons. Aside from him getting the radio (which he doesn't use until a quarter of the way through act two) there's very little relevance to the rest of the episode.
As for the quality of the jokes, that's all opinion. I happen to agree that all of the jokes in Radio Bart's opening were funny. However, I don't really remember very many pop-culture references (not that pop-culture references automatically make something good either-check out "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes" and you'll see what I mean), as most of them seemed to be contained in acts two and three. And it can't be denied that many of the gags were still fairly "wacky" in some way, like much of Wall E. Weasel's (which for the record is one of my favorite sequences ever), or Bart's wacky usages of coupons. Its maybe not as wacky as some later ones, although I'd actually say the wackiness level wasn't too much different from the first acts of most season 15 openings so far, or a lot of season 14 openings for that matter.
Oh, and maybe you didn't mean that "all new stuff sucks", but it sure came off that way. Not one post (again previous to the one I'm responding to here) you made said anything positive about newer episodes from what I could remember, and they all came off as saying "everything the show does not sucks. PASS".

If you still think ‘Radio Bart’s’ opening was "nothingness", you and I must have different opinions on what constitutes "nothingness". Just because an opening isn’t connected to the main story, doesn’t qualify it as "nothingness". As I explained in my previous post, there’s a difference between a beginnings such as ‘Radio Bart’s’, which actually had a reason (explained in previous post), than ‘Latest Gun in The West’, which felt like padded out filler. That is why ‘Latest Gun in the West’ was a fair comparison, and that is what I mean by "nothingness".

True, a lot of pop culture references won’t equal a good episode, but neither will joke after joke and nothing else. My point here is, if there’s loads of one thing, and not much else, even if that thing was good, it won’t make the episode as a whole good. I agree, like with ‘Computer Wore Menace Shoes’. The difference is a question of balance. Despite ‘Radio Bart’s’ wackiness, it also contained a balanced mix of many other things (listed in previous post), unlike the majority of modern episodes, which seem to contain more wackiness than anything else. This is where the difference lies. Sure there’s similarities, but these similarities are only in certain areas. And like you said, a lot of certain thing (popular culture was your example) doesn’t equal a good episode. And this is why I don’t like many of the new episodes.

 
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Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Its all well and good to state your opinion. As I said, a lot of people in this thread that I've debated with have made good points. They not only stated their opinions, but backed them up with generally good explanations (whether I agreed with them or not) and even considered mine. You seemed to have completely overlooked my posts (particularly the ones about pointless beginnings), and (again) just seemed to be making the usual stereotypical comments that I've gotten sick of, so I snapped a little. Perhaps I overreacted, but again that was my position.
As for the "contribution" level of your post this time, you seem to have misinterpereted (or ignored) many of my points, but at least now you're saying more then bland and stereotypical one or two sentence things.

I’m happy I’ve come closer to meeting your standards...
DotheBartman

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« Reply #348 on: 01-05-2004 18:34 »

 
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I was generalizing, because believe it or not, I wasn’t just talking about you. True, you do evaluate the good and bad, perhaps you find more good than me. Good for you. The "blinding" comment was more of a generalized statement, aimed at people who always give episodes the highest mark, regardless of content. If you go to ‘No Homers Club’, I’m sure you’ll now what I mean...
Well, its true that some fans do that, although not anymore so then in the fanbases for anything else (in fact I think Simpsons fans are probably stricter with their standards then the fanbases for a lot of other things).  There's certainly some people at the NHC that just praise every episode (I don't want to name names, although some of my fellow NHC members would probably be glad to rattle off a short list of offenders), but I think most just evaluate every individual episode as they see them.  Same with PEEL or almost any other big fan board, there's a lot of people that evaluate everything as they see it, and then there's some that love everything that so much has the name of their favorite show plastered on it (in the case of PEEL, that's the only explanation I can think of for "Three Hundred Big Boys" getting good reviews...).

 
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If you still think ‘Radio Bart’s’ opening was "nothingness", you and I must have different opinions on what constitutes "nothingness". Just because an opening isn’t connected to the main story, doesn’t qualify it as "nothingness". As I explained in my previous post, there’s a difference between a beginnings such as ‘Radio Bart’s’, which actually had a reason (explained in previous post), than ‘Latest Gun in The West’, which felt like padded out filler. That is why ‘Latest Gun in the West’ was a fair comparison, and that is what I mean by "nothingness".

True, a lot of pop culture references won’t equal a good episode, but neither will joke after joke and nothing else. My point here is, if there’s loads of one thing, and not much else, even if that thing was good, it won’t make the episode as a whole good. I agree, like with ‘Computer Wore Menace Shoes’. The difference is a question of balance. Despite ‘Radio Bart’s’ wackiness, it also contained a balanced mix of many other things (listed in previous post), unlike the majority of modern episodes, which seem to contain more wackiness than anything else. This is where the difference lies. Sure there’s similarities, but these similarities are only in certain areas. And like you said, a lot of certain thing (popular culture was your example) doesn’t equal a good episode. And this is why I don’t like many of the new episodes.

Well, I don't think Radio Bart's opening is truly nothingness, but it could be characterized that way.  It really has almost nothing to do with what happens later on in the episode, and you could basically shave it off and not affect the story.  It does have some nice satirical elements (mostly the Wall E. Weasel's stuff, and the commercial for the radio toy), but then, so do a lot of modern episodes in their openings.  I don't think the opening had much more of a "reason" to exsist then a lot of modern openings, even if the material was perhaps better then (which is almost always the case for me when comparing just about any show to seasons 1-8 of The Simpsons anyway).

Also regarding modern wackiness, I don't think its fair to say that they embody wackiness and little else.  Certainly there are some that do (which is the case of every season of the show anyway, barring maybe season two), but I'd say most season 13-15 episodes have tried to be a little bit more, with varying results granted.  In fact, most of the non-holdover season 14 episodes tried for truly character based stuff.  Again the results varied to say the least, but even early last season when I was bashing new episodes constantly I wouldn't have been able to say that the show was still in its Saturday morning "what wackiness will there be this week?" stage of the Scully era.  I'd say its more in a stage where the majority of the show is character based and/or satirical, but the results perhaps vary at least a little (some episodes are really good, and of course some fail) due to some lingering issues with character, pacing, etc.


User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #349 on: 01-05-2004 19:54 »

Getting off topic A little with regards to Radio Bart on the commentary, they seem very proud of the episode and bitterly joke about how claymation easter beat them and I just think "Well you should have picked a better episode" I definatley Think there were better choices in season 3
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #350 on: 01-05-2004 20:00 »

 
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Originally posted by leelaholic:
I've listed my overrated/underrated Simpsons episodes (I'm Alpha Homega) and, as you can see from the big red letters, I think Brother's Little Helper is HORRIBLY underrated.

that link isn't working

DotheBartman

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« Reply #351 on: 01-05-2004 20:50 »

The NHC is having some problems lately, since this is around the time that the domain name expires.  It should be fixed soon though. 
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #352 on: 01-05-2004 21:33 »

 
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Originally posted by User_names_suck:
Getting off topic A little with regards to Radio Bart on the commentary, they seem very proud of the episode and bitterly joke about how claymation easter beat them and I just think "Well you should have picked a better episode" I definatley Think there were better choices in season 3

Well, I do think "Radio Bart" is a pretty good episode, but you're right in that there were stronger episodes that season. "Burns Von Kraftwerk" and "Flaming Moe's" come straight to mind. Still, the fact that the Simpsons, in its prime, lost to something so stupid is an embarrassment. I guess the Emmy Committee gives them awards now to make up for that overlook. Kinda how Metallica keeps getting Grammy nominations....

Bender: "Try this, kids at home!
Warning: do not try this at home
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #353 on: 01-05-2004 23:03 »

Yeah, Simpsons lost in a lot of its best years.  No emmys in seasons three, four, five, seven, or eight from what I remember.  In the case of season three's lost, its speculated that they lost simply because of the Simpsons "burnout" going on at the time in the wake of Bartmania.  They won in seasons one and two (and deservingly so), but its arguable that they won simply because they were such a huge sensation and break-out hit, and whatever happens to be the most popular at the time always wins those awards.
Mercapto

Professor
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« Reply #354 on: 01-05-2004 23:38 »

 
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Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Yeah, Simpsons lost in a lot of its best years.  No emmys in seasons three, four, five, seven, or eight from what I remember.  In the case of season three's lost, its speculated that they lost simply because of the Simpsons "burnout" going on at the time in the wake of Bartmania.  They won in seasons one and two (and deservingly so), but its arguable that they won simply because they were such a huge sensation and break-out hit, and whatever happens to be the most popular at the time always wins those awards.

They did win an Emmy in season 8 for "Homer's Phobia". One of the reasons why they didn't win anything during seasons 4 and 5 is, if I recall correctly, that during those years they were eligible for the "Best Sitcom" catogory as opposed to the "Outstanding Animated Program" category that they've won several times. That meant they were competing against live-action shows.

Matt Groening said something about it in an interview in 1999:

 
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For Emmy purposes, are you treated like other sitcoms?

We're in animated-show category. We were eligible for best sitcom for a few years and then we never got nominated, so I think the people on the show who care about the Emmys said, "Let's go back to animated-show category."
DotheBartman

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« Reply #355 on: 01-05-2004 23:47 »

Ah, of course.  Thanks for the corrections. 

Still, not winning in season seven is a pretty glaring omission, given what a great season that was.
Mercapto

Professor
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« Reply #356 on: 01-05-2004 23:56 »

They were nominated, though, for "Treehouse of Horror VI", but they lost to "A Pinky & the Brain Christmas Special" which had Steven Spielberg as an executive producer.  tongue
Mouse On Venus

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« Reply #357 on: 01-06-2004 07:15 »

 
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Originally posted by DotheBartman:I think most just evaluate every individual episode as they see them. Same with PEEL or almost any other big fan board, there's a lot of people that evaluate everything as they see it, and then there's some that love everything that so much has the name of their favorite show plastered on it (in the case of PEEL, that's the only explanation I can think of for "Three Hundred Big Boys" getting good reviews...).

 Sorry to go offtrack here slightly but are you saying that if I were to give Three Hundred Big Boys a good review (which, I might add, I think it deserves 'coz I thought it was a good episode), are you saying that it wouldn't count because, according to you, that episode is so shit that anyone who gives it a positive review is in denial?  hmpf

leelaholic

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« Reply #358 on: 01-06-2004 08:34 »

 
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Originally by Otis:*yawn* Just like your post then. What a wonderful ‘contribution’ to this thread. I never said I don’t even watch the show, I specifically said "Season 15". Of course I watch the show, get your facts right...
That's what I meant. You haven't watched ANY of the season, don't criticize! Granted, Homerjay's reviews are less fair, but at least she WATCHES the damn episode!

On a related note, I doubt that the ONLY episodes Homerjay catches are the lousy ones.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #359 on: 01-06-2004 13:12 »

What episodes were nominated for emmys each season
I know They had life on the fast lane season 1 (well they probably would even have won with the shocking original version of some enchanted evening that season, well maybe just a nomination) and I'm guessing bart the daredevil season 2 but there's probably a link I'm too lazy to find
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