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Author Topic: Simpsons Season 15 Review Thread: Crap... or not?  (Read 8335 times)
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DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #240 on: 12-21-2003 01:49 »

Yeah, exactly.  Both really weren't anything like their original characters in seasons 9-12 (we all know my opinions on Homer's Jean developement by now, but I will elaborate and say that Ralph has also improved a little too).
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #241 on: 12-21-2003 01:53 »

I also get the feeling that the a.t.s. naysayers in seasons now regarded as classic (e.g. 5-8) may have hurt the show later on.

By Season Eight, the writers were so used to newsgroup criticism that they laughed it off (see "Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie", et all). So when the show really started getting bad, they just saw it as further criticism of work which was well-recieved by the majority of hardcore fans.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #242 on: 12-21-2003 03:21 »

Yeah, its sometimes speculated that Oakley and Weinstein were angry with the fans in season eight.  After all, in season seven they did everything the fans wanted: better characterization, meaningful/deep satire, lots of character based stuff, reduced wackiness, etc. All of these things were generally far more present in season 7 then in either Mirkin season. Season 7 is arguably the closest thing ever to season two.  But fans continued to complain, hence the breaking point with "Poochie".

Still, I'm not sure if that's all of it.  Al Jean seems more open to fan input and reads it regularly from what I've gathered.  To some extent I think Scully just didn't really CARE.  He was apparently also upset with many of the negative reactions, but overall his view of what the show should be was so different from any showrunner before him that he may have just not cared much about things like like character depth or satire. 
sheep555

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #243 on: 12-21-2003 08:02 »

I don't think this has been posted here, but the comments from That's Lobstertainment say a lot:

 
Quote
David Cohen: Do you know what the fans said? Worst. Episode. Ever.

Matt Groening: Don't they say that about every episode?

David Cohen: No, that's on The Simpsons
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #244 on: 12-21-2003 08:03 »

Replying to a post in the Simpsons DVD thread:

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
I agree the ball looked out place. I think the reason is that they used computer effects (first time they attempted it on the show, although "Tennis the Menace" first attempted digital coloring/animation).  They've used them more or less sparingly, but they did show up again in the THOH "Send in the Clones" short (which looked cool) and a recent one (Fat and the Furriest I think) with a bunch of identical fans in the mall that looked a little out of place. 

"Sweets and Sour Marge" wasn't bad I thought (sorry to change the subject) a little.  The idea of banning sugar is fairly absurd, but it was a satirical exxageration (much like a three-eyed fish is a satircal exxageration).  It wasn't an amazing episode, but I thought it was enjoyable enough.


I guess I just didn't like it. I can appreciate the satirical angle (campaigners who think they know better), but it was done before (much better, I feel) in "Marge vs Itchy and Scratchy".

And they had to make the "bad guy" (the sugar factory owner) actively evil. They couldn't just leave it like in MvIaS, where Myers just doesn't care. This highlights for me one of the critical flaws that crept into The Simpsons (and still exists) - they often underestimate the intelligence of their audience. Hence my complaints about MBB's "Scum, freezebags" line.

I just feel they seem to have lost their knack for telling when a joke is perfect.

You already know that a couple of my favourite jokes are the Indy and Flintstones parodies. If they'd gone on just a little bit longer, they wouldn't have been as funny.

I actually find myself disagreeing with one of the Simpsons/Futurama producers (I can't remember which). On one of the commentaries, they say that there's a rule of comedy which states that something is funny, then less funny, then not funny, but then it becomes funny again (like the "rakes" scene in Cape Feare). I don't agree with that at all.
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #245 on: 12-21-2003 14:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by CyberKnight:
I guess I just didn't like it. I can appreciate the satirical angle (campaigners who think they know better), but it was done before (much better, I feel) in "Marge vs Itchy and Scratchy".

Still, "Sweets and Sour Marge" was (as DoTheBartman said) enjoyable enough. "Itchy and Scratchy and Marge" was still pretty different. It didn't feel repeated at all IMO.
 
Quote
And they had to make the "bad guy" (the sugar factory owner) actively evil. They couldn't just leave it like in MvIaS, where Myers just doesn't care. This highlights for me one of the critical flaws that crept into The Simpsons (and still exists) - they often underestimate the intelligence of their audience. Hence my complaints about MBB's "Scum, freezebags" line.
It's really no different from the "Bake 'em away, toys" line from "Cape Feare"
 
Quote
I just feel they seem to have lost their knack for telling when a joke is perfect.

You already know that a couple of my favourite jokes are the Indy and Flintstones parodies. If they'd gone on just a little bit longer, they wouldn't have been as funny.
That's a different thing entirely. If it's a parody scene, it's meant to remind you of something. The jokes that they can extend are always a repeated action (like Sideshow Bob stepping on rakes)
 
Quote
I actually find myself disagreeing with one of the Simpsons/Futurama producers (I can't remember which). On one of the commentaries, they say that there's a rule of comedy which states that something is funny, then less funny, then not funny, but then it becomes funny again (like the "rakes" scene in Cape Feare). I don't agree with that at all.
And I thought you were a Family Guy fan.  eek
(BTW, it was on The Simpsons "Separate Vocations" commentary)
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #246 on: 12-21-2003 15:19 »
« Last Edit on: 12-21-2003 15:19 »

I'm not a fan, but neither am I a hater. I'm just indifferent. I find the style gets repetitive after a while, and it becomes painfully obvious that the plot's only there so they can stuff in the cutaway scenes, which, while humorous in themselves, don't have much rewatch value for me.

I wasn't saying SaSM was a repeat of IaSaM, just that I felt the latter was better done. I feel a lot of Scully eps fall into the same category as Family Guy; a few good jokes the first time around but very little rewatch value (and absolutely no emotion). All IMHO, of course.

Anyway, "The President Wore Pearls" aired here tonight, and my impression of it was that it was not too bad, except for the last few minutes.

I will say that Homer was characterised awfully during this episode. The scenes where he threatens Martin, suggests starting a rumour about Nelson (not Kearney, as SNPP suggests!), and the final scene were real low points for this episode.

Although, since he wasn't in it too much, it's not as big of an issue as it might have been.


The songs weren't too bad, and definitely better than the "Kids! Adults!" song, which I hate with a passion. Still not as good as "Monorail", but not horrific.

As for the plot; good and down-to-earth, and it's well within character for Lisa to want to be School President, and I did like that she didn't automatically assume she was going to win.

I'm aware that the final scene may be a rip on "cop-out" endings, but it just didn't work for me. Especially when taken in light of the fact that in "Lisa's Sax" Homer gives up his air conditioning unit (twice) to give Lisa a better education, I just felt that the "I'm not driving 45 minutes" line was a huge mischaracterisation. Homer's always tried to give Lisa (and indeed Bart, in "Itchy and Scratchy : The Movie" ) the best starts in life. He's even so humble as to admit "she's the best thing that ever had <his> name attached to it".

Finally, my production nitpick of the day   wink : is the show still recorded in Dolby Digital? The voices were actually quite accurate in this one (apart from Martin, who still sounds like Mickey Mouse), but I swear there's something wrong with their recording studio : the mic volume seems to vary wildly, and sometimes it sounds like the actors are wheezing for their lines. I just found it slightly distracting.

Anyway, if the ending hadn't been so poor, I probably would have given this one an A-. But the final scene knocks it down to a B.

~FazeShift~

Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #247 on: 12-21-2003 15:21 »

Heheh, Ralph holding a sign that says "I like purple".  big grin
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #248 on: 12-21-2003 15:58 »

I saw The President Wore Pearls today and I thought it was really good. I love all the songs and I like the way they changed Lisa’s style. She looks really different in this episode.
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #249 on: 12-21-2003 16:09 »
« Last Edit on: 12-21-2003 16:09 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Cyberknight:
I'm aware that the final scene may be a rip on "cop-out" endings, but it just didn't work for me. Especially when taken in light of the fact that in "Lisa's Sax" Homer gives up his air conditioning unit (twice) to give Lisa a better education, I just felt that the "I'm not driving 45 minutes" line was a huge mischaracterisation. Homer's always tried to give Lisa (and indeed Bart, in "Itchy and Scratchy : The Movie" ) the best starts in life. He's even so humble as to admit "she's the best thing that ever had <his> name attached to it".
It was just a way to end the episode with Lisa back at Springfield Elementary. It wasn't Homer-ish, that's for sure, but someone had to and it couldn't have been Marge. That would have been too off.

 
Quote
Originally posted by ~FazeShift~:
Heheh, Ralph holding a sign that says "I like purple".   big grin

I've loved every Ralph joke in the series and that was no exception.  laff

Ralph: And I want a bike, and I want a monkey, and I want a friend for the monkey…

Hosey the Bear: You’re not gonna start any fires, are ya?

Ralph: At my house, we call ‘em “uh ohs.”
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #250 on: 12-21-2003 16:26 »

Did I hear someone on this board that from when Scully took over he wasn't the first choice and was the only one that would do it, so most of you will consider it a good thing but perhaps the show wouldn't have continued without him.

I really dont think his era was that bad there still a few laughs in each episode.
but ignore me 
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #251 on: 12-21-2003 16:41 »
« Last Edit on: 12-21-2003 16:41 »

HOORAY! I just checked this week and it looks like us Americans are getting a repeat of "My Mother the Carjacker" tonight!  big grin
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #252 on: 12-21-2003 17:37 »

Meh.  If we're getting a rerun anyway, why couldn't it be a Christmas episode from a previous year, or better yet, the original Christmas special?

Speak softly. Drive a Sherman tank.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #253 on: 12-21-2003 19:01 »

thought i'd post these since I hadn't seen some of these descriptions on snpp until just now


FABF03 - Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples and Teens, and Gays - Written by Jon Vitti
Marge gets a job as a advice dispenser on KBBL radio, where she starts voicing out controversial opinions. Meanwhile, Maggie is left in a daycare centre, under the control of a mean Nursery School Admissions Officer (voiced by American Idol judge Simon Cowell).

FABF04 - I, (annoyed grunt)-bot - Written by Dan Greaney & Allen Glazier
Homer and Bart are watching a "BattleBots"-type program on cable and are inspired to build a robot of their own. Marge disapproves, believing that their lack of engineering knowledge will doom their "project." When this proves to be true, they adjust the robot so that Homer can operate it from the inside. When it wins some exhibitions, the robot appears on the show that inspired them, where they not only find themselves outmatched, but they also put their lives at risk.

FABF05 - Diatribe of a Mad Housewife - Written by Robin J. Stein
Marge writes a novel and gets endorsements from writers playing themselves, including guest-stars Tom Clancy and Thomas Pynchon (as themselves).

FABF07 - Milhouse Doesn't Live Here Anymore - Written by Julie Chambers & David Chambers
Description unknown at the moment, but feel free to speculate.

FABF08 - The Ziff Who Came to Dinner - Written by Deb Lacusta and Dan Castellaneta
A new episode featuring another return by Artie Ziff (voiced by Jon Lovitz).

FABF11 - The Wandering Juvie
A kiddie delinquent named Gina (played by Sarah Michelle Gellar befriends Bart in juvenile detention. She later helps the bad seed escape, and the two go on the lam à la The Defiant Ones.

FABF12 - My Big Fat Geek Wedding
Principal Skinner and Mrs. Krabappel plan their wedding.

FABF19 - Sleeping With the Enemy - Will not air until the start of season 16
Marge becomes motherly towards Nelson Muntz, as he has no parental figure, and lets him stay in the Simpson household.

DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #254 on: 12-21-2003 19:07 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by David A:
Meh.  If we're getting a rerun anyway, why couldn't it be a Christmas episode from a previous year, or better yet, the original Christmas special?


Those episodes have already been sold to syndication.  Though this year's Christmas episode is rerunning on Christmas day.


Cyberknight: a couple comments

Agreed that "Itchy and Scratchy and Marge" was done better, but that's a given since its a top twenty (at least) episode and was produced in what was possibly the satirical peak of the show (season 2).  I agree that the sugar exec as an evil villian might've been a bit much, but hey, its not much different from Mr. Burns.  And evil conglomerates who don't care has always been part of the Simpsons writers' world view.  Because its true.  wink

What the producers meant by the "then its funny again" comment was merely regarding the jokes (such as the rake scene) that happen to go on REALLY long.  Its all about timing really, and there are some jokes such as the rake scene that I find hilarious because they knew how long they could go to make it funny again, and then when to stop before it stopped being funny again.  Those jokes are a matter of taste really, but I enjoy them on occasion.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #255 on: 12-22-2003 01:58 »
« Last Edit on: 12-22-2003 01:58 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by leelaholic:
It was just a way to end the episode with Lisa back at Springfield Elementary. It wasn't Homer-ish, that's for sure, but someone had to and it couldn't have been Marge. That would have been too off.

I know that, but it's no excuse. Of course I know the golden rule of TV (Fry: Everythings always back to normal at the end of the show). It just felt like the writers basically ran out of time, and IMO a good episode should never feel like that.

(By the way, I see FOX are up to their old antics again, by basically giving away the whole plot in the TV Guide description; right up until the last few minutes, in fact.  roll eyes ).

To be honest, I don't know how they could have ended it in the time they had. There's not really much that could have been cut from the episode to fit in a meaningful ending. My suggestion would have been to ditch the "sending Lisa off to troublemaker school" and find a different way to write the ending, but hey ho.

And regarding the sugar episode, that's my point. Burns is Springfield's resident evil tycoon. And what makes him funny to me is he's ever so slightly incompetent at it (like the metric weight, the trapdoor opening in the wrong place, etc.). It might have been a bit of a stretch, but you could have had Burns be the sugar-factory owner.

(By the way, I was watching "Last Exit to Springfield" today and noticed that the evil McBain character's mansion is Mr Burns'   wink).
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #256 on: 12-22-2003 02:42 »

To comment on the "President Wore Pearls" ending, it did seem a tad rushed, but Evita (which the episode is a take off of)apparently ends more or less the same way.  Plus it was basically a lighthearted romp, as opposed to a serious character study like "Lisa's Substitute", so a rushed ending doesn't hurt it so much IMO.  Its not much different then, say, Sherry Bobbins suddenly leaving and then getting caught in the airplane engine.
sheep555

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #257 on: 12-22-2003 06:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by CyberKnight:Finally, my production nitpick of the day    wink : is the show still recorded in Dolby Digital? The voices were actually quite accurate in this one (apart from Martin, who still sounds like Mickey Mouse), but I swear there's something wrong with their recording studio: the mic volume seems to vary wildly, and sometimes it sounds like the actors are wheezing for their lines. I just found it slightly distracting.

I believe it is still recorded in Dolby, and certainly it's now a digital recording setup (as opposed to the analogue tape used before). Perhaps they just had a bad mixer, or your local TV station did something to it...
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #258 on: 12-22-2003 12:00 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
To comment on the "President Wore Pearls" ending, it did seem a tad rushed, but Evita (which the episode is a take off of)apparently ends more or less the same way.  Plus it was basically a lighthearted romp, as opposed to a serious character study like "Lisa's Substitute", so a rushed ending doesn't hurt it so much IMO.  Its not much different then, say, Sherry Bobbins suddenly leaving and then getting caught in the airplane engine.

Fair enough. My issue is more with how they went about it rather than the abrupt ending. Although the fact that the ending was so abrupt amplified my dislike of Homer's characterisation.

The "back-to-normal" ending was done in "Das Bus", but there I didn't mind it because it didn't involve any major character flaws. Here it just felt forced, as if the writers said, "Ah, we're at the 22 minute mark. Eh, just have Homer show up and deny Lisa the school.".
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #259 on: 12-22-2003 12:42 »

Good point, CyberKnight. Since I loved "Oh... let's say, Moe" at the end of "Das Bus," I forgave it. But that ending was just so rushed. And also, Shary Bobbins leaving wasn't a rushed ending. The Simpsons reverted to their old slob selves, Shary gives up and breaks down, the family claim they're happy the way they are, so Shary leaves. And then gets sucked into a plane engine. Classic.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #260 on: 12-22-2003 13:06 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by sheep555:
 I believe it is still recorded in Dolby, and certainly it's now a digital recording setup (as opposed to the analogue tape used before). Perhaps they just had a bad mixer, or your local TV station did something to it...

Perhaps, but I've noticed this on both NTL and Sky. The next time a new episode airs, I'll try and record it to see if I can show you what I mean.
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #261 on: 12-22-2003 13:08 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
...a mean Nursery School Admissions Officer (voiced by American Idol judge Simon Cowell).

 They'll let any famous schmo do voices for them nowadays.  roll eyes

User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #262 on: 12-22-2003 14:46 »

but at least he's not playing himself
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #263 on: 12-22-2003 17:42 »
« Last Edit on: 12-22-2003 17:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Mouse On Venus:
  They'll let any famous schmo do voices for them nowadays.    roll eyes

Normally, I'd agree, but this sounds really funny. I'll be looking forward to it.

Anyway, as for "My Mother the Carjacker", It was a lot better than I remembered it. Last time , I gave it a "9", but this time, I'll bump it to a "10". I felt a lot more emotion for Homer this time and noticed a lot of jokes I didn't before. I think this is my favorite....

Mona: ...I wouldn't be surprised if the government started tapping your phone and reading your mail.

Homer: (dismissive) Pfft. They've got better things to do than read my mail.

(a government agency is going through Homer's mail.)

Agent: Most people write letters to movie stars, this guy writes to movies (reading) "Dear Diehard, You rock! Especially when that guy was on the roof. P.S. Do you know Mad Max?"
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #264 on: 12-22-2003 18:22 »

Okay your really just being the antidote to futurama fans that criticise the simpsons too much now aren't you, meh someone should do it
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #265 on: 12-22-2003 19:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
but at least he's not playing himself

He might as well be. Simon Cowell is Simon Cowell, it's not like playing a "mean" authoritative character is going to display his vast range as an actor.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #266 on: 12-22-2003 22:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shadowstar:
Good point, CyberKnight. Since I loved "Oh... let's say, Moe" at the end of "Das Bus," I forgave it. But that ending was just so rushed. And also, Shary Bobbins leaving wasn't a rushed ending. The Simpsons reverted to their old slob selves, Shary gives up and breaks down, the family claim they're happy the way they are, so Shary leaves. And then gets sucked into a plane engine. Classic.


Eh, but its still not particularly good plotting is it?  Still, on closer inspection I guess its not all that rushed...in fact on closer inspection its probably the opposite problem.  By the end of act two they had stretched the "plot" (not that there's much of one) in those first two acts so far they couldn't stretch it anymore, and ahd to come up with what they did.

As for Das Bus, its really about the same as "President Wore Pearls" except the latter is better done.  In both cases they more or less ran out of time (although in the latter case there's also the element of accuracy in their parody, not sure about Das Bus I guess), so they decided to make a joke out of that fact.  Both were lighthearted, gag-row episodes, so it worked in the context.  Key difference is, President Wore Pearls is much better then Das Bus, which had terrible characterization and plotting (even for a gag-row), succumbed too often to Scully madness, and was only decently clever or humourous most of the time.
sheep555

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #267 on: 12-23-2003 05:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by CyberKnight:
The "back-to-normal" ending was done in "Das Bus", but there I didn't mind it because it didn't involve any major character flaws. Here it just felt forced, as if the writers said, "Ah, we're at the 22 minute mark. Eh, just have Homer show up and deny Lisa the school.".

But the same thing does happen in Lord Of The Flies (which the episode parodies) - some guy just turns up, and basically says "You're rescued, the end", offering little explanation at all.
LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
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« Reply #268 on: 12-23-2003 06:58 »

Ah, but in "Lord of the Flies" that's intentional -- with no buildup, and no tension for the moment of rescue, the actions of the kids are thrown into even harsher relief. The ease with which a single adult can upend their "society" shows how barabric and juvenile it truly was.

[/tangent]
sheep555

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #269 on: 12-23-2003 07:10 »

Curse my B in English Literature!  smile
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #270 on: 12-23-2003 08:16 »

There's no 'B' in English Literature!  roll eyes
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #271 on: 12-23-2003 19:32 »

thats fantastic
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #272 on: 12-23-2003 22:18 »

So is spam.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #273 on: 12-23-2003 22:29 »
« Last Edit on: 12-23-2003 22:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by LAN.gnome:
Ah, but in "Lord of the Flies" that's intentional -- with no buildup, and no tension for the moment of rescue, the actions of the kids are thrown into even harsher relief. The ease with which a single adult can upend their "society" shows how barabric and juvenile it truly was.

[/tangent]

Didn't William Golding get all pissy before he died because people wouldn't stop disecting "Lord Of The Flies"? Not that I don't agree with you completly, that was the point of the ending.

And just so this isn't considered spam, "Das Bus" would have worked better if, instead of the kids discorvering the "Monster" (which stoped them from killing each other), it showed Moe saving the kids in a boat or something (on screen) just as the savage group of kids where about to kill Bart, Lisa and Milhouse, so it would reflect the point/ending of the novel more. I'd imagine that Mike Scully wouldn't do that though because he probably got an "F" in english.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #274 on: 12-24-2003 15:17 »

Oh lets all rip on people we think aren't ridculously over educated.
how do you even know thats scully's idea for the ending, david cohen wrote it
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #275 on: 12-24-2003 16:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
Key difference is, President Wore Pearls is much better then Das Bus, which had terrible characterization and plotting (even for a gag-row), succumbed too often to Scully madness, and was only decently clever or humourous most of the time.

I'm afraid I must disagree. While the characterisations may not been perfect in "Das Bus", there was certainly nothing as bad as Homer in TPWP. And Das Bus flowed much more smoothly, whereas TPWP seemed to need a jolt every now and then to keep the story moving along.

I'm actually a musical fan, so I was looking forward to this episode. But I just didn't like the songs as much as "Monorail" or "We Put The Spring in Springfield". I think they were erring too close to the original musical; one of the things I always liked about Simpsons songs was that they used their own style.

My main point is, that "Das Bus" ended fairly naturally, with the conflict resolved, and you could very easily have a self-contained fourth act. But TPWP introduces an element (the special school) only to immediately discard it.

If it is a parody, then I think it's one that should not have been done. Ending abruptly like that works in the musical because it's a self-contained universe; i.e. there's not going to be an "Evita 2" to continue the story (although, with the way things are going....). Whereas the Simpsons is a multi-episode series so we know we'll see them again next week.

I'm sorry, although I do admit there is a world of improvement in Season 15 over Season 12 (with 13 and 14 also being gradual improvements), it's still not "classic" season quality, and I think saying "well, it'll never be that quality again" is a copout to avoid the issue. All I know is I'm still seeing severe problems with Homer in particular, although I'm glad to see they're using Marge less (I don't dislike the character or the actress, but by including Marge more the writers have to give her more lines, and thus jokes - and jokes and Marge don't seem to go well together) and including Maggie more.

I hope this is just a minor blip (although I've prepared myself for "The Regina Monologues" in January), and I expect it probably is. But I don't want to give an episode I consider sub-par any more credit than I feel it deserves.

Apologies for the long rant. Just remember that it's all opinion, and not necessarily fact.  smile
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #276 on: 12-24-2003 17:37 »

A couple things:

The "it'll never be like that again" could be used as a cop-out, but it just depends.  I don't consider a lot of my favorite shows to be nearly as good as classic era Simpsons (that includes South Park, The Daily Show, and, yes, Futurama).  But I realize that they're still quality and judge them as such.  With new episodes, I just rate them as I see them as such.  If I enjoy an episode, then I enjoy it simple as that, regardless of whether its as good as the classics or not.  I don't excuse a truly awful episode (thus I won't excuse, say, "Fat and the Furriest", or the majority of the Scully era) because I don't enjoy them.  But I try to rate episodes on an individual basis without letting my bias towards the classics bias my opinion of the newer ones too much.  Just making that all clear.

Regarding PWP vs. Das Bus.  First off I agree Homer was a tad off (mostly just that tutu bit, although I still found it amusing for whatever reason), but its no big deal.  He doesn't really feature much in the episode so it doesn't affect things too much.  As for the pacing...I think you're forgetting just how jolty Das Bus was.  There was no sense or logic to any of it.  The bus ends up in the ocean for not apparent reason (I know its the whole thing with the grapefruit and all, but seriously, it didn't make any F'n sense), then they end up on the island, and there's a bunch of shitty adventures that never last more then a minute or two, and rarely is there a coherent theme.  Characters are messed with and come off as thin and horribly unlikeable, simply so they can further the "plot".  And then there's the subplot, where Homer acts like a braindead dumbass and similarly goes on a wacky adventure with no rhyme or reason to it, or anything of note really. Basically, through the whole episode no idea is explored for more then a minute or so, or any scenes stuck with long enough to make them genuinely interesting or memorable. For the record I enjoyed Das Bus overall, but its really VERY flawed and just not a whole lot better then most episodes that are coming out now.

Regarding musical numbers: I'm not entirely sure I understand the criticism.  I agree they aren't as good as some of the best ones, but again its hard to expect that.  Even most classic era songs are not as good
as the Monorail number.  Again I guess we come to the argument of enjoying things for what they're worth, instead of constantly rating them up against other numbers of the past.  I don't like Hermes' Beaurecrat song as much as the Monorail song for instance, but I don't hold that against it.  I can't comment about how close the songs were to the originals, though I would note that a lot of previous parody songs (like all the ones in the Sherry Bobbins ep) stay pretty close to the source material and make it pretty obvious what's being parodied.  And I think there was still enough Simpsons style fun in both, in this case I would specifically say that I think they intigrated the characters well into the songs to make them their "own" (unlike, in fact, certain scenes of the Sherry Bobbins ep, where the characters were "morphed" a little to make them work with the parody).
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #277 on: 12-24-2003 17:54 »

What the hell is wacky about Homer's B story in das bus, bill gates comes along and thats wacky?
and B stories dont have to have a reason, there usually there as more lighthearted story to the main plot
Mouse On Venus

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #278 on: 12-24-2003 17:59 »

I think the fact that Homer's setting up a dot com company without any idea about computers or anything and that Bill Gates still wants to buy out his company is why it's wacky.
User_names_suck
Professor
*
« Reply #279 on: 12-24-2003 18:12 »
« Last Edit on: 12-24-2003 18:12 »

Bill Gates explains why, and Homer gets jealous of flanders website, he's always competed with flanders and wants to do better than him. and it seems strange to consider that wacky in compariosn.

Also will people remember episdes from as early as season 4 and 3 as well sometimes and see how many little wacky jokes there were, there were loads, it just wasn't important to the plot
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