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Author Topic: WWE  (Read 8236 times)
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evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #40 on: 10-25-2003 17:36 »

To my knowledge, it's Vince McMahon's fault that it's called the WWE now. Something that has to do with a contract he signed with the World Wildlife Fund selling them shares of the WWF initials when Vince was in bad financial shape in the mid 1990s.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #41 on: 10-25-2003 17:55 »

That suits me, something else to blame him for.

OK, another discussion point for some of the old-skool fans.

Best match ever?  Which was/is your favourite?

I think mine has to be the Royal Rumble 2000 match between Cactus Jack and Triple-H.  Was really brutal (I'll give Triple-H this, he's an excellent blader), was really gripping and certainly was on of Mick Foley's best.  Just edges out the "Hell In A Cell" match with The Undertaker.
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #42 on: 10-25-2003 18:07 »

Theres no way I could pick just one, but I will narrow it down to some.

Ultimate Warrior vs Hulk Hogan - So much Drama here, it was a mind fuck of a match.

Bruiser Brody vs Dick the Bruiser

Dusty Rhodes vs Ric Flair for the world title in a cage

Sgt. Slaughter vs Pat Patterson: boot camp match was great


The official CARLITO of PEEL
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #43 on: 10-25-2003 18:54 »
« Last Edit on: 10-25-2003 18:54 »

My favorite match of all time is Ric Flair vs. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat at "Wrestle War" for the NWA world title. If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor, and look up the match on kazaa. It's generally accepted as the best match (wrestling wise) of all time.

As far as WWE matchs go I would say Mankind vs. The Undertaker at the 1998 King Of The Ring.

*Edit* typos-a-plenty
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #44 on: 10-25-2003 19:52 »

I've seen the match. That match is one of the reasons Flair is a legend. He put Dragon over HUGE that night.


The official CARLITO of PEEL
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #45 on: 10-25-2003 20:06 »

Damn straight! Ric Flair, even though he's nearing his 60's, is still one of the best workers (On the mic and in the ring) in the WWE today.
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #46 on: 10-25-2003 20:25 »

Okay, here are some of mine:

Best Technical match: Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart, WCW, in Kansas city.  Those two put on a solid 20 minute match, and the crowd was dead.  One of the reasons you hardly see technical matches anymore.

Best hardcore match:Roddy Piper vs Greg "The Hammer" Valentine, NWA, Greensboro;Starcade 1.  A great bloody match, with those two putting on a great show. 

Best overall: Ric Flair vs Harley Race, almost any match they were in, two of the best workers in the business in their prime.

Best tag team: Ole and Gene Anderson, the Minnesota wrecking crew.  Runner-up: Kronos and Saturn, the Eliminators.

Best blader: Dusty Rhoades, you could count on a crimson mask almost every time with him

I'll think of more later on, but, you'll notice, I'm pretty old school
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #47 on: 10-25-2003 21:38 »

Most of the best technical matches normally involve Benoit.  Wasn't there a Pillman Show match with him (I think with William Regal) which was supposed to be good? 

I never saw it, so I wouldn't know.  I read about it.

If you're talking Tag Teams, I'm sorry but I've gotta go with The Fabulous Freebirds.  So good they were in Highlander.

**Sings "Badstreet USA"**  wink

Michael Hayes was a commentator at the WWF Rebellion we went to, so that was a big moment for me and my mate Jamie (who's a big Freebirds fan too).
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #48 on: 10-25-2003 23:46 »

If your'e talking technical, yeah, Benoit and Regal are two of the best in the business. 
Man, the Freebirds, I miss them.  I miss a lot of the older wrestlers I grew up with, that have passed on, Wahoo McDaniel, Jay Youngblood, Hawk, Brian Pillman.

The best of the modern wrestlers, right now, is probably the Rock.  He can do in an arena, what Ric Flair used to do back in the day, and still can do sometimes, have the crowd eating out of the palm of his hand.  Whether he's a face, or heel, I still mark out for him.  Most of the newer guys, I like but I don't buy into it all the way, but the Rock, I can still groove on him.  Too bad that he's pretty much becoming a decent action star these days, I doubt that he'll ever go back to full time anymore.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #49 on: 10-26-2003 01:48 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Wonderbee31:
I miss a lot of the older wrestlers I grew up with, that have passed on, Wahoo McDaniel, Jay Youngblood, Hawk, Brian Pillman.

Add to that British Bulldog, Kurt Hennig, Owen Hart and perhaps Kerry Von Erich.

I've got the WWF PPV "Badd Blood" on video, which was broadcast the day Pillman died.  That was the one with the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker "Hell In A Cell" match.
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #50 on: 10-26-2003 02:01 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 02:01 »

I don't think it matters. The WWF has been very crass in memorializing dead wrestlers. (Owen Hart, anyone?) In fact, knowing Vince, I'm not surprised that he didn't have a midget dressed up as Pillman go out and wrestle a match.

Oh, and who can forget Gorilla Monsoon, Miss Elizabeth, and Andre the Giant as 80's legends who have passed on?

/edit -- heh, look at the Daylight Savings Time glitch on the timestamp.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #51 on: 10-26-2003 02:20 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 02:20 »

I can't believe we forgot Andre.  Rick Rude too (dammit, with this many deaths, it's a wonder that Jake The Snake is still alive).

I would say Dino Bravo also, when I had my hair blonde, my mate Jamie said I was his lookalike.  Never forgave him.

Agreed though, the WWF never does obituaries with class.  The Owen Hart memorial show was painful (and not in the right way).
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #52 on: 10-26-2003 02:51 »

I have that video as well Melllvar! I find it kind of disapointing that they thought a midget match could ever replace a Brian Pillman match (Just the way J.R. announced it seemed like they thought fans would enjoy it just as much). I would have rather seen a tribute to Brian Pillman but I guess they just couldn't have one ready on such short notice, so thier hands where tied.
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #53 on: 10-26-2003 08:33 »

I remember, before wrestling developed into the house shows that it did, back when they used to come to small venues.  There was a YMCA in my area, and they had the NWA wrestlers come there and wrestle.  I got to sit less than thirty feet away and watch guys like Jimmy Valiant, Ric Flair, Paul Jones, Magnum TA and others in a regular ring, in a small gymnasium.  Man, I know that it's impossible to get big stars like that in a small arena like that any more, but I miss those days.

By the way, anybody had a chance to watch NWA/TNA over in Europe, or here in the states.  While not bad, I don't think it's good enough for me to justify spending ten dollars a week, for some half decent wrestling, and then some so-so stuff, even if there are a lot of big old time stars on there.  If they ever get a tv deal, and start cultivating more of the younger talent, then maybe they might, might, have a chance at giving McMahon a little run.  At least sway him from his high horse for a while.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #54 on: 10-26-2003 09:30 »

I've never seen it.  As far as I'm aware, we can't get it over here.

That's what wrestling needs.  Competition.  I'd give my right arm to see another fed get a TV show to run alongside Raw and Smackdown.  This is why the product is stale.  Vince can throw together any old crap and people will still watch, as there's no alternative.

In the last days of WCW, I was one hoping that it would be saved.  Although I'll admit that I marked-out when Shane McMahon appeared on Nitro.
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #55 on: 10-26-2003 10:29 »

When Shane appeared on Nitro..I was so hurt. I knew the end was here. At least they went out with style, Ric Flair vs Sting one last time! In front of a small crowd...just like when they started.

Thats why I pray Sting doesn't sign with Vince Mcmahon. He was WCW all the way, right until the very end. He is a legend that WCW made! I don't care for him in NWA:TNA or WWA either, but I'd like him to be remembered as the one thing Vince couldn't just buy.


The official CARLITO of PEEL
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #56 on: 10-26-2003 10:39 »

I hope Sting will stay away as well, he's had a good run, and just needs to stay on top, unlike some wrestlers that dropped whatever talent they had years ago, but just couldn't get out. *coughHogancough*

I remember watching the match Sting and Hogan had at the end of the NWO run, when Sting had to win, because Bret Hart came in and re-started the match.  I was so angry, I almost did a Yakuza kick thru the TV.  Here was Sting, with an awesome amount of heat, and it got pretty much snuffed out because Hogan didn't want to do a clean job.

That was the problem with so many of the NWO guys, no clean job, just win and win.  I'm starting to see that problem with HHH, I hope he breaks out of it soon, or McMahon puts his foot down.

Maybe, some of the young guys will get to shine here in the next few years, as so many of the current crop of stars are getting on in age now.  I mean Big Lazy Kevin Nash, he moves in the ring about as fast as my grandmother sometimes.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #57 on: 10-26-2003 10:59 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 10:59 »

Hogan doesn't job to anybody.  He only jobbed to The Rock because fans would never believe that this old geezer could defeat The Rock.

I'm wanting to see more and more clean finishes to matches now.  I'm like Evan, bored with the run-in, it's so damn stale and it's expected.

Ricky Steamboat also fell foul of Hogan in the early days - could've been a huge star, but oh no, and that "passing the torch" match with Ultimate Warrior, what the hell was that?  Hogan stayed on top for years afterwards and Warrior fucked off to WCW (the stinky finish to Wrestlemania 9 was another classic!).

As I've said, Wrestlers with booking power throws up a conflict of interest.  We've had some great matches (when Jericho defeated HHH for the WWF Title on Raw, the HHH had the referee reverse the decision, man that sucked - and Stone Cold getting the WWF Title back off Kane after one day, when he lost to Kane at the infmamous "King Of The Ring" in 98.) which could've produced better story arcs if the protagonists can do without a title belt for a few weeks.
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #58 on: 10-26-2003 11:11 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 11:11 »

Hogan's last run in the WWE, all he did was job. He lost to Kurt Angle, CLEAN. He lost to Brock and Rock CLEAN. The guy did put people over, and I can at least give him that. Though him refusing to job to Jarret in WCW was total crap on Hogan's part.


And the reason Hogan/Sting didn't work was because it was botched. Hogan was set to do the job after a year of build up, and Bret Hart didn't come out at the right time so Nick Patrick counted to 3. It was just a missed spot, that ruined a year of build up. Believe me, I was pissed too but Hogan was going to do the job.


On another note, you guys have got to head over to ultimatewarrior.com, I think you will find a very interesting peice of news on the front page.



The official CARLITO of PEEL
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #59 on: 10-26-2003 12:49 »

I had a huge crush on the Rock and I still do. He was a really good wrestler and entertainer too. I want to see him on WWE again

Teesside Inc

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #60 on: 10-26-2003 12:55 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 12:55 »

Evolution(Triple H, Ric Flair, Batista and Randy Orton) sucks!

     mad      up yours
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #61 on: 10-26-2003 13:04 »

Rock is semi retired. I'm dissapointed that he isn't getting back in the ring. But he worked his ass off to revolutionize the wrestling bussiness, so he deserves some time off. Besides, I'm sure he will be back some day.

but enough about that, lets talk about Hogan/ WMXX. With my spoiler above and Hogan saying he wants to return for WMXX could this mean UW vs Hogan 3??


The official CARLITO of PEEL
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #62 on: 10-26-2003 13:55 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 13:55 »

Two fairly old guys, wandering around the ring in their walkers, Yeah, let's go for it!

I'm kidding folks. 

Actually, it might not be bad to see UW vs Hogan 3, I'd actually get the PPV for that match, plus if they had a few other good ones on the card.  Vince need to get some better writers, make sure that the wrestlers stay out of the storylines, and get some longer matches.  I'd also recommend reviving the tag division, and make sure wrestlers sell when they're supposed to.  Hmm, what if they brought in Shark boy, he's a great wrestler for his size. I'd also get the Intercontinental title back up where it used to be.

Okay guys, here's a biggie for y'all:  Which wrestler has been the most influential throughout the modern day wrestling business?

Much as I hate to say it, I'd have to give Hogan the props for this one.  When they started up rock 'n' wrestling, Hogan was the showpiece, and then, when it was cool to be either a 'tweener' or heel, it was Hogan and the NWO again.  I'd say he probably rejuvenized the business more often than not.

Though best wrestler overall, I'd still give my boy Ric Flair the overall title.  He might be in his fifties, but by gosh, he can still go out there and put on a show, and even in Biscoffs asinine lawsuit, he still rose above it all, and came out on top. 

To be the man, you gotta beat the man! Whoo!
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #63 on: 10-26-2003 15:29 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 15:29 »

I have heard a rumor that Jeff Hardy will be returning at WMXX as well. As for that most influential wrestler, I will go with Hogan as well. I'm not a fan of his personally, but he helped bring wrestling to the mainstream.
 http://www.wrestlingforums.com
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #64 on: 10-26-2003 15:59 »

He is returning. That should be kind of cool. I bet they won't change his gimmick one bit, lol.

Anyhow, as far as most influential wrestler goes, I'm undecided. I mean, wresting has evolved so much in so little time its very hard to pinpoint one person.


The official CARLITO of PEEL
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #65 on: 10-26-2003 18:59 »

I'd really wish for Jeff Hardy to stay away. That's one more thing we need -- people living off their past accomplishments. Hardy hasn't been interesting in a few years, at least.

There should be a massive cleaning house of the WWF. They've accumulated so much deadweight in the past few years, the ranks are clogged up and some people aren't getting the pushes they deserve. That's another problem with only one "major" federation.
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #66 on: 10-26-2003 19:58 »

I agree, forget Hardy, give his push to Chris Kanyon!


The official CARLITO of PEEL
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #67 on: 10-26-2003 20:59 »

Oh yeah, they do have Kanyon. I completely forgot about him, as well as Ultimo Dragon, Brian Kendrick, Sean O'Haire, and others. It's a shame that the WWF has such a talented roster, but they keep on pushing Kane and the Big Show.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #68 on: 10-26-2003 21:19 »

Unfortunitly most of the cruiserweights will never be pushed in the WWE because Vince loves "big men". It's a shame though because cruiser weights are awsome.
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #69 on: 10-26-2003 21:37 »

Yeah, well Vince has to realize that his current roster of top talent is getting older sooner or later.  I just hope it's sooner.

Chris Kanyon would be great, he's good on the mic, he can really work a match, and he knows how to sell and get people over.

Don't laugh now, but, my guilty pleasure to watch is, the Hurricane.  He just seems like he's having a ball out there, and isn't that what you're supposed to have, fun?  I get a kick out of him, and when he wins, I mark out, because, it just seems like he deserves it.
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #70 on: 10-26-2003 21:42 »

I like the Hurricane/Rosey Combination and I hope it doesn't end.


The official CARLITO of PEEL
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #71 on: 10-26-2003 22:00 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by newhook_1:
Unfortunitly most of the cruiserweights will never be pushed in the WWE because Vince loves "big men". It's a shame though because cruiser weights are awsome.

Sean O'Haire isn't exactly what I would call a "cruiserweight." In fact, he could have been the next Mike Awesome, with his size, look, and willingness to do amazing shit. I mean, those O'Haire promos, "I'm only telling you what you already know," were fantastic. We were marking out all over when he came on TV. He's a talented big man, but because he was trained in WCW, Vince had to bury him. So, when he debuted, he had to be Roddy Piper's bitch. So sad.

newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #72 on: 10-26-2003 22:11 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 22:11 »

I was more talking about Ultimo Dragon and Brian Kendrick in my post. But Sean O'Haire is amazing, I once saw him do a complete Seantonbomb from the steps to the floor in WCW. While it isn't very high, it showed amazing agility for such a big man.
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #73 on: 10-26-2003 22:50 »

Here's a question for the folks hanging out here, what was just the low point of embarrassment for the organizations?

For WCW, I'd say, David Arquette, world champion, followed up by Robocop, dispenser of justice, able to make even Arn Andersen fear him.

WWF, I'll have to think about it.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #74 on: 10-26-2003 22:58 »
« Last Edit on: 10-26-2003 22:58 »

WCW = David Arquette, world champion
WWE = Triple H having sex with "Katie Vick", I'm glad it wasn't shown on TSN.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #75 on: 10-27-2003 08:06 »
« Last Edit on: 10-27-2003 08:06 »

Have to go along with David Arquette World Champion for WCW.  The WWF, I think Mae Young's striptease at Royal Rumble.  Wrong, wrong, wrong!

The WMXX, I'm not sure.  As long as it's billed as like the Gimmick Battle Royale (something for the oldies) then Hogan/Warrior might be something - I never marked out for The Warrior, I always thought it was a stupid gimmick (but Vince was a huge fan of gimmicks, and may go for this idea). 

We in the UK get some of the PPV's for free (well, we have to subscribe to Sky Sports, but I do that anyway) which includes Wrestlemania.  WM19 is the first one I haven't seen since WM6.

One thing I'll not forgive Triple-H/Vince for, is breaking the tradition that faces walk out of the main event the WWF Champion.  Wrestlemania should be a culmination of stories/angles plus a start point for future stories leading to a future PPV.

They should never treat it like "just another PPV".  Should be something extra.

OK, what about mark-out moments, which one did you mark-out to most?

WCW = Bash At The Beach, Hogan turns heal and forms the nWo.

WWF = Jericho's arrival.

There are more, I'm sure.

EDIT: This thread has got me back reading the dirtsheets again.  So that's a start I suppose.  I go to Pro-Wrestling Torch, they have good editorials.
Coop

Professor
*
« Reply #76 on: 10-27-2003 08:28 »

the low point of embarrassment for the organizations?

WCW: Carl Malone
WWF: Dog Poo match


Now, total mark out moments for me!

WCW: Lex wins the title from Hogan
WWF: Ultimo Dragon's premier!
Wonderbee31

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #77 on: 10-27-2003 08:51 »

Melllvar, speaking of Mae Young, how about her love affair with Mark Henry, and the subsequent "birth" of the hand that followed.  Good lord, that was bad.  roll eyes

I also didn't really like the Austin crucifixion angle, when the Undertaker was "evil", though it did introduce a younger and cuter Stephanie McMahon.  Yowza!  flirt

Anybody that wants to get good WWF dirt should go to rajahwwf on the 'net, they're usually really good.

Most mark out moment hmmm?  Well, I agree that Hogan walking down to the ring, and then joining the NWO.  One of the best kept secrets in the industry.

Also, when Rock and Austin were feuding, there was one time, when Austin was taunting Rock from the Titantron, and said something about 3:16, Rocks beeper went off, he looked at it, and his eyes bulged out.  Then Austin hit the ring, and got him.  Hilarious.  laff

One more, Austin gets Vince in the hospital room, with Vince being hit by a bed pan, and the defibrillator.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #78 on: 10-27-2003 09:37 »
« Last Edit on: 10-27-2003 09:37 »

From the same segment:

Mankind turns up to cheer up Mr. McMahon, yes, the birth of Mr. Socko.  Classic.

More mark-out moments:

On Smackdown, Mankind says to Triple-H that he's not the man to fight him, but reveals the man who is by removing his mask and shirt to become Cactus Jack.  Fantastic!  Triple-H's reaction totally sold that segment.

@WonderBee: I never saw that Mae Young bit, I caught the beginning of their thing, but never got that far.  Man that sounded bad, though!
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #79 on: 10-27-2003 10:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Melllvar:
Have to go along with David Arquette World Champion for WCW.  The WWF, I think Mae Young's striptease at Royal Rumble.  Wrong, wrong, wrong!

I remember that bit me and my brother were watching it and I was going “No don’t do it agrrrggghhh” I don’t know why she could get away with it. Sable did the same thing didn’t she when she has hands panted on her chest.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Wonderbee31:
Melllvar, speaking of Mae Young, how about her love affair with Mark Henry, and the subsequent "birth" of the hand that followed.  Good lord, that was bad.   roll eyes

I also didn't really like the Austin crucifixion angle, when the Undertaker was "evil", though it did introduce a younger and cuter Stephanie McMahon.  Yowza!   flirt

Anybody that wants to get good WWF dirt should go to rajahwwf on the 'net, they're usually really good.

Most mark out moment hmmm?  Well, I agree that Hogan walking down to the ring, and then joining the NWO.  One of the best kept secrets in the industry.

Also, when Rock and Austin were feuding, there was one time, when Austin was taunting Rock from the Titantron, and said something about 3:16, Rocks beeper went off, he looked at it, and his eyes bulged out.  Then Austin hit the ring, and got him.  Hilarious.   laff

One more, Austin gets Vince in the hospital room, with Vince being hit by a bed pan, and the defibrillator.

The Mae Young and Mark Herny story line was so stupid. The Rock and Austin feuding was the best second feuding ever and it got me having a huge crush on them ever. The best WWF feuding is Austin vs Vince McMahon.

HHH and Stephanie McMahon’s shocked wedding has the best storyline ever. When I saw it I didn’t wanted to miss every details ever and what more brillant on the match where Vince losses to HHH, Stephanie turns her back to Vince and that why everybody calls her a skank.

I remember DX. They where the best group ever. I only liked it with HHH, Shawn Michaels and Chyna.

Best duo is The Rock and Mankind. Hehehe Rock and Sock.

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