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Author Topic: Which Simpson's Character do you want killed off?  (Read 2258 times)
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Chump

Urban Legend
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« Reply #120 on: 10-04-2003 20:12 »

Bart in a bubble was ok... I liked how the nerds were like:

"Oh jeez, when you leave they will surely destroy us..."
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #121 on: 10-05-2003 01:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
 
Also, I know that Dan Castelleneta also wrote that one clip show episode that had the Forest Gump parody.  Did he write any other episodes?  Also, please update me on something, as I have only been watching the Simpsons for about two years.  What's this thing with the Mike Scully years?  Was he the person responsible for screwing up the Simpsons for good?


Castellenetta and Lucasta have not written anymore aired episodes yet, though they are writing another episode with Artie Ziff this upcoming season.  I forget exactly, but I think it involves him becoming poor.

Mike Scully was, yes, the man who RUINED The Simpsons during seasons 9-12.  He ran the show in those seasons, basically.  Season 9 was uneven at best and featured all the key mistakes he made:  horrible characterization of everyone, horrible plotting, etc.  Seasons 10-12, which were unwatchable, exxagerated all these problems even more.

Everyone in the Simpsons fan community, at least among those that think there was a decline, seem to agree that Scully was to blame.  What is debated a little more is the merit of seasons 13 and 14, which were primarily run by Al Jean (a few of the first few season 13 episodes were Scully holdovers, and Scully did a guest production of "Strummer Vacation" too).  Again, my feeling is that season 13 was problematic but a huge improvement and mostly enjoyable past the Scully crap, and that season 14 started off very poorly, but got better as it went and that the last few episodes seem to indicate that the show is nearly on track again.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #122 on: 10-05-2003 02:07 »

Right. Let's kill those two instead.
Just Chris

Urban Legend
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« Reply #123 on: 10-05-2003 12:33 »

Yes, Scully was partially responsible for the series' downfall in the double-digit years. I remember when I was going to Simpsons boards, fans were mad and couldn't wait for Al Jean to take control in season 13. We thought that since Jean was a big contributor to many old episodes, these newer ones will follow suit. However, the series cannot retain the charm it once had in its older years.
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #124 on: 10-05-2003 16:20 »

Somebody needs to start a thread "Which Simpsons writers or producers do you want to kill?"  One additional question comes to mind:  Why the hell was Mike Scully hired in the first place, and who hired him? 
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #125 on: 10-05-2003 16:49 »

Matt needed someone to hold his pencil's.
Chump

Urban Legend
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« Reply #126 on: 10-05-2003 17:51 »

Maybe we could all beg Matt to put the effort into the Simpsons again. Or maybe just pick up all the people from Futurama?
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #127 on: 10-05-2003 18:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
Somebody needs to start a thread "Which Simpsons writers or producers do you want to kill?"  One additional question comes to mind:  Why the hell was Mike Scully hired in the first place, and who hired him? 

When he was first hired as a writer in season 5 (which is interesting to me, since I think season 5 is where the first concrete signs of decline can be found), it was presumably because he was a good writer.  Hell, while his episodes may have been carried by other, better writers, all his episodes are more or less good, especcially the classic "Marge Be Not Proud" and "Lisa on Ice". 

When he was hired to work on season 9, my best guess is that it was because he was one of the most senior writers at the time.  There was George Meyer and Swartzwelder too, but the latter rarely even visits the studio (he writes all his episodes at home and sends them in) and Meyer has turned down the job before.  Scully really was, I think, otherwise the most senior writer at the time.  Otherwise, his hiring probably amounts mainly to a misjudgement on the part of those involved, and Scully himself probably wasn't helped by the fact that a lot of writers left at that time and he had to work with largely new writing staffs.  He seems to have been in over his head and just couldn't sustain the show the way people like Brooks, Simon, Jean, Reiss, Mirkin, Oakley, and Weinstein had in previous years.

Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #128 on: 10-05-2003 19:02 »

Wow, that was interesting.  Looks like a single misjudgment brought the whole series down.  It's amazing how much damage one person could do.  I always thought that no one person could bring a whole series down, because the writing and production process is so colloborative.  But I guess what happened to The Simpsons proves that it is possible for one person to screw up the whole thing.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #129 on: 10-06-2003 13:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
Oh yeah, that episode is stupid.  Seriously, how could an eight year old be mistaken for a college kid?

that was part of the joke,
they take off her hat and see she's an eight year old. its not meant to be beliveable
Teesside Inc

Bending Unit
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« Reply #130 on: 10-06-2003 14:54 »

Lisa Simpson is not annoying.
Teesside Inc

Bending Unit
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« Reply #131 on: 10-06-2003 15:14 »
« Last Edit on: 10-06-2003 15:14 »

I don't like the Comic book Guy and catchephrase is Worst Episode Ever.
  mad   up yours
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #132 on: 10-06-2003 15:18 »

Don't make me come over there.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #133 on: 10-06-2003 20:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
Wow, that was interesting.  Looks like a single misjudgment brought the whole series down.  It's amazing how much damage one person could do.  I always thought that no one person could bring a whole series down, because the writing and production process is so colloborative.  But I guess what happened to The Simpsons proves that it is possible for one person to screw up the whole thing.


Well, to be fair, as I said Scully had to deal with a mostly new writing staff (though, he also hired some of the worst writers like Dana Gould).  But yeah, its mostly his fault.  He and his wife created "The Pitts", and if anyone here has seen that it's apparently a good example of what Scully probably would have done with The Simpsons if given the chance.
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #134 on: 10-07-2003 10:53 »

Oh yeah, I forgot about The Pitts.  At least the title is a case of truth in advertising.  Looks like it's a very good thing that Mike Scully left, although it wa disappointing that he was in charge of the series in the first place.  I wonder if that would've changed Simpsons history, i.e. the show wouldn't have started to suck.  I'm just wondering right now if the Simpsons were going to end up going down the toilet anyway.  Could the actual hiring of Mike Scully have been considered a symtom of The Simpsons getting bad anyway (i.e. a sign that it was starting to get bad anyway), rather than the cause of The Simpsons going bad?
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #135 on: 10-07-2003 17:04 »
« Last Edit on: 02-22-2004 00:00 »

forget I ever said this

leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #136 on: 10-07-2003 19:30 »
« Last Edit on: 10-07-2003 19:30 »

Here's a rough Simpsons quality timeline just from memory...

Seasons 1-4  A work of art!
Scully hired as writer
Seasons 5-8 Pretty good.
Futurama begins
DANGER: Scully becomes EP!!
Season 9 It's okay
Seasons 10-12 THIS is The Simpsons??
Futurama ends
Our saviours, Al Jean & Matt
Season 13 HUGE improvement!
Season 14  *gasp!* They're back! WOO HOO!
Season 15 Hasn't aired yet but sounds great!

I hope this helps.

Also, I should add that season 14 started out kinda bad because of all the Scully holdovers... But it improved! Oh my, yes.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #137 on: 10-07-2003 23:04 »

13 started badly from holdovers actually.  14 had Scully's guest produced "Strummer Vacation" episode though, which was further proof of the disease he was for The Simpsons.

Evil Fox Exec, again my guess would be that the show probably would have declined at least a little (it happens to any long running show, even shorter running ones like The Twilight Zone.  Its just fact), but if Scully hadn't been brought in it probably wouldn't have been so severe.  It probably would have been similar to the later part of season 13 and the better eps of 14, in that it generally wouldn't be at the same level of humor, but it would still be funny enough and the characters would be in character still.  Under Scully's reign no one was ever characterized right for more then an episode or two in a row.

User,regarding season 9, its more or less enjoyable actually, but...it just had so many problems.  Not only did it have the first bombs in the series (Principal and the Pauper, Bart Carny-the JTS episode IMO, Trouble with Trillions), but it just detereorated the show in so many ways.  The characters were all wrong, the surreality and mean-spirtedness went way up, overdone guest stars, etc.  Its watchable, which is more then I can say for the horrendous seasons 10-12, but ultimately it just feels like a tamer version of those seasons to me.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #138 on: 10-08-2003 17:11 »
« Last Edit on: 02-22-2004 00:00 »

-

DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #139 on: 10-08-2003 20:41 »

Trouble With Trillions does have some good lines ("Mr. Burns, I think we can trust the president of CUBA." for instance).   But it also had:

Absolutely HORRIBLE characterization of Homer
Overly wacky plot, worse even then much of seasons 10-12
plenty of unfunny, "in your face" crap masquerading as "satire".


As for your other comments, seasons 10-12 are bad, period.  Look up snpp.com if you want to see the list of episodes, by the way.  No one is characterized right like, ever, too much surrealism, bad guest stars, and just plain not funny episodes.  If I tried really hard, I might be able to find 10 episodes from those three seasons that are worth watching again, but it would be tough...

Pray Anything(Homer buying the church): I agree actually, worst episode ever

Bart of War (Flanders' Beatles collection): People that don't like this one just shouldn't be watching.  It was a great commentary on violence and exploration of the root causes of it.  Plus, its funny as hell, with the "South Park" scene, "Canada", etc.

I'm Spelling As Fast as I can: Not as good, but I thought it was enjoyable.  One of the only good season 14 episodes before March.  I consider it the "turn around" episode actually.

Again, my opinion is that 13 is very good past Scully's crap, and 14 starts off badly but gets very good at the end.
theZoid88

Bending Unit
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« Reply #140 on: 02-22-2004 15:15 »
« Last Edit on: 02-22-2004 15:15 »

marge, shes like an annoying parent and sucks the fun out of everything.    no no

o wait she is an annoying parent!   laff

still off her.  evil laugh
Teesside Inc

Bending Unit
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« Reply #141 on: 02-25-2004 12:38 »
« Last Edit on: 02-25-2004 12:38 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
I want Lisa to get killed off.  She's so friggin' annoying.

She is not annoying!!!!!

Teesside Inc

Bending Unit
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« Reply #142 on: 02-25-2004 13:51 »
« Last Edit on: 02-25-2004 13:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by theZoid88:
marge, shes like an annoying parent and sucks the fun out of everything.      no no

o wait she is an annoying parent!     laff

still off her.    evil laugh

Your are right, she is annoying.
rule brittannia

Bending Unit
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« Reply #143 on: 02-25-2004 14:39 »
« Last Edit on: 02-25-2004 14:39 »

dont double post please teeside inc

oh, and kryten did you ban XxPYROxX just then for calling otis a bas***d?

if so he deserved it
Woodbot 2.0

Starship Captain
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« Reply #144 on: 02-25-2004 17:38 »

I love the Simpsons,but some charactors are
SOOOOOOO STUPID!The following should die:
Yesss Man
Luigi
Ralph
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #145 on: 02-25-2004 18:17 »

I don't think that Ralph should die. He is one of those secondary characters that (like Dr. Zoidberg) is good for a line here or there.
The "Yesss" Man is another story...
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #146 on: 02-25-2004 18:58 »

I think Ralph should just leave. It was funny the first 20 times, but now his lines aren't funny. I guess the writers figure, "Oh, we need a laugh, let's put in Ralph" but he's not all that funny anymore. I think they've done him to death.
Now the "Yesss" Man is another story, he's great! As is Luigi! "You come'ah with me! Come'ah with Luigi! You don't wann'ah sit with the rest of this'ah scum!"
Woodbot 2.0

Starship Captain
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« Reply #147 on: 02-25-2004 19:34 »

YESSS MAN IS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!!
PCC Fred

Space Pope
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« Reply #148 on: 02-25-2004 19:41 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teesside Inc:
Lisa Simpson is not annoying.

She wasn't annoying during the show's early years but recently she's become a cliche of her former self.

Who is Yesss Man?
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #149 on: 02-25-2004 19:46 »

The man who had a stroke. We see his fifty times now in the new episodes. I want to shoot Ralph dead, especially after Bart The Bubbleboy.
SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
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« Reply #150 on: 02-25-2004 23:57 »

You know, the show has imroved since seasons, 9-12. But, in my mind, not enough. They've just started showing season 15(or 14? the latest one) in Aus, and it's still difficult to find any truly clever, worthwhile jokes.

The trick to enjoying the new ones seems to be to set ones expectations VERY low, then one might have a chance of appreciating a joke or two.

Also, a lament for the new lameness of Duffman. Hilarious in his first three or so appearences, he quickley became another case of a badly handled character. Yello is still funny though.
rule brittannia

Bending Unit
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« Reply #151 on: 02-26-2004 14:27 »

who is actually the yessss man
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #152 on: 02-26-2004 16:04 »

Also: Milhouse and Lisa, both of them annoy the crap out of me. Kill them!
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #153 on: 02-26-2004 18:09 »

Milhouse really annoys me.
Lisa doesn't. I think that she is the moral center of the show. Okay, true, in some episodes she was annoying or a cliche of herself, but all in all, she is one of the best main characters on The Simpsons.
Also, as everyone is saying, Scully ruined The Simpsons. I'm not sure about how much of that is true. Like DoTheBartman said, he was hired in season 5 and that is when the show started to decline a bit. But, many other writers and producers were hired from about season 6 and on. When he took over the show, there was an enormous staff of writers and producers. This allows scripts to be polished by many people, which can ultimately help an episode. Everyone has a different sense of humor though, and this can prove to be a problem.
For example, one writer may want to add a joke where Homer is a real jerk. Then a producer might add a joke where Homer is playing catch with Bart and being a real family man. Of course it is ultimately the show-runner's decision as to whether or not a joke makes it in, but if both jokes make it to the final product, then you're left with an episode that really makes no sense. Nonsensical plots are one of the pitfalls that many Scully-era episodes fell in to.
So, what that long winded explanation means is that 80% of the blame rides on Scully's shoulders, but 20% is the staff's fault.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
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« Reply #154 on: 02-26-2004 18:17 »

To hell with moral centres!  I'd kill Lisa just to see the resulting post from Teesdie Inc.!
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #155 on: 02-26-2004 18:28 »

I think this sounds hypocritical, but in response to PCC Fred:

[Scruffy]Second[/Scruffy]

And anyway, the Simpson family would probably adopt another daughter, name her Lisa, and pretend that nothing ever happened.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
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« Reply #156 on: 02-26-2004 18:33 »

They've ALREADY done that.  Remember the "Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase"?  wink
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #157 on: 02-26-2004 19:36 »

On the subject of showrunners while they take the majority of responsibility, the other writers can still Improve the quality. Season 9 and some of season 10 I think still had David Cohen, Rich Appel as CO-executive producers, Oakley and Weinstein were consultants.There were still some Great writers.But for 11 and 12 there were some shitty ones, Scully probably had to bring new writers in, he can Blamed for bringing in bad ones, but still if you had lots of classic writers still working there it would have been a lot better.
It shows under Al Jean that no matter how good a Showrunner, Your still going to have problems if the rest of the staff is bad.
In season 15 the worst of them may have left and better ones may have joined the team (Bill Odenkirk for example.) so its a gradual process of Improving the show, although admiittedly you'd still expect a lot better by this point.
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #158 on: 02-26-2004 20:58 »

We've only seen the Mmmyess! Guy 7 times at the most since when he was introducing 5 years ago. How is that overdone?
~FazeShift~

Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #159 on: 02-26-2004 21:02 »

Milhouse is awesome!

Lisa: "Here comes Milhouse with the newslette... no, wait the birds have him!"
Milhouse: "Aaaaagh Aaaaaghh!!"  laff
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