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DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec: Also, I know that Dan Castelleneta also wrote that one clip show episode that had the Forest Gump parody. Did he write any other episodes? Also, please update me on something, as I have only been watching the Simpsons for about two years. What's this thing with the Mike Scully years? Was he the person responsible for screwing up the Simpsons for good?
Castellenetta and Lucasta have not written anymore aired episodes yet, though they are writing another episode with Artie Ziff this upcoming season. I forget exactly, but I think it involves him becoming poor. Mike Scully was, yes, the man who RUINED The Simpsons during seasons 9-12. He ran the show in those seasons, basically. Season 9 was uneven at best and featured all the key mistakes he made: horrible characterization of everyone, horrible plotting, etc. Seasons 10-12, which were unwatchable, exxagerated all these problems even more. Everyone in the Simpsons fan community, at least among those that think there was a decline, seem to agree that Scully was to blame. What is debated a little more is the merit of seasons 13 and 14, which were primarily run by Al Jean (a few of the first few season 13 episodes were Scully holdovers, and Scully did a guest production of "Strummer Vacation" too). Again, my feeling is that season 13 was problematic but a huge improvement and mostly enjoyable past the Scully crap, and that season 14 started off very poorly, but got better as it went and that the last few episodes seem to indicate that the show is nearly on track again.
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Nurdbot
DOOP Secretary
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Right. Let's kill those two instead.
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Nurdbot
DOOP Secretary
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Matt needed someone to hold his pencil's.
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DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec: Somebody needs to start a thread "Which Simpsons writers or producers do you want to kill?" One additional question comes to mind: Why the hell was Mike Scully hired in the first place, and who hired him? When he was first hired as a writer in season 5 (which is interesting to me, since I think season 5 is where the first concrete signs of decline can be found), it was presumably because he was a good writer. Hell, while his episodes may have been carried by other, better writers, all his episodes are more or less good, especcially the classic "Marge Be Not Proud" and "Lisa on Ice". When he was hired to work on season 9, my best guess is that it was because he was one of the most senior writers at the time. There was George Meyer and Swartzwelder too, but the latter rarely even visits the studio (he writes all his episodes at home and sends them in) and Meyer has turned down the job before. Scully really was, I think, otherwise the most senior writer at the time. Otherwise, his hiring probably amounts mainly to a misjudgement on the part of those involved, and Scully himself probably wasn't helped by the fact that a lot of writers left at that time and he had to work with largely new writing staffs. He seems to have been in over his head and just couldn't sustain the show the way people like Brooks, Simon, Jean, Reiss, Mirkin, Oakley, and Weinstein had in previous years.
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User_names_suck
Professor
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Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec: Oh yeah, that episode is stupid. Seriously, how could an eight year old be mistaken for a college kid? that was part of the joke, they take off her hat and see she's an eight year old. its not meant to be beliveable
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Nurdbot
DOOP Secretary
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Don't make me come over there.
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DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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13 started badly from holdovers actually. 14 had Scully's guest produced "Strummer Vacation" episode though, which was further proof of the disease he was for The Simpsons.
Evil Fox Exec, again my guess would be that the show probably would have declined at least a little (it happens to any long running show, even shorter running ones like The Twilight Zone. Its just fact), but if Scully hadn't been brought in it probably wouldn't have been so severe. It probably would have been similar to the later part of season 13 and the better eps of 14, in that it generally wouldn't be at the same level of humor, but it would still be funny enough and the characters would be in character still. Under Scully's reign no one was ever characterized right for more then an episode or two in a row.
User,regarding season 9, its more or less enjoyable actually, but...it just had so many problems. Not only did it have the first bombs in the series (Principal and the Pauper, Bart Carny-the JTS episode IMO, Trouble with Trillions), but it just detereorated the show in so many ways. The characters were all wrong, the surreality and mean-spirtedness went way up, overdone guest stars, etc. Its watchable, which is more then I can say for the horrendous seasons 10-12, but ultimately it just feels like a tamer version of those seasons to me.
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DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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Trouble With Trillions does have some good lines ("Mr. Burns, I think we can trust the president of CUBA." for instance). But it also had:
Absolutely HORRIBLE characterization of Homer Overly wacky plot, worse even then much of seasons 10-12 plenty of unfunny, "in your face" crap masquerading as "satire".
As for your other comments, seasons 10-12 are bad, period. Look up snpp.com if you want to see the list of episodes, by the way. No one is characterized right like, ever, too much surrealism, bad guest stars, and just plain not funny episodes. If I tried really hard, I might be able to find 10 episodes from those three seasons that are worth watching again, but it would be tough...
Pray Anything(Homer buying the church): I agree actually, worst episode ever
Bart of War (Flanders' Beatles collection): People that don't like this one just shouldn't be watching. It was a great commentary on violence and exploration of the root causes of it. Plus, its funny as hell, with the "South Park" scene, "Canada", etc.
I'm Spelling As Fast as I can: Not as good, but I thought it was enjoyable. One of the only good season 14 episodes before March. I consider it the "turn around" episode actually.
Again, my opinion is that 13 is very good past Scully's crap, and 14 starts off badly but gets very good at the end.
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Gorky
DOOP Secretary
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I don't think that Ralph should die. He is one of those secondary characters that (like Dr. Zoidberg) is good for a line here or there. The "Yesss" Man is another story...
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Nurdbot
DOOP Secretary
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The man who had a stroke. We see his fifty times now in the new episodes. I want to shoot Ralph dead, especially after Bart The Bubbleboy.
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Nurdbot
DOOP Secretary
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Also: Milhouse and Lisa, both of them annoy the crap out of me. Kill them!
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Gorky
DOOP Secretary
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Milhouse really annoys me. Lisa doesn't. I think that she is the moral center of the show. Okay, true, in some episodes she was annoying or a cliche of herself, but all in all, she is one of the best main characters on The Simpsons. Also, as everyone is saying, Scully ruined The Simpsons. I'm not sure about how much of that is true. Like DoTheBartman said, he was hired in season 5 and that is when the show started to decline a bit. But, many other writers and producers were hired from about season 6 and on. When he took over the show, there was an enormous staff of writers and producers. This allows scripts to be polished by many people, which can ultimately help an episode. Everyone has a different sense of humor though, and this can prove to be a problem. For example, one writer may want to add a joke where Homer is a real jerk. Then a producer might add a joke where Homer is playing catch with Bart and being a real family man. Of course it is ultimately the show-runner's decision as to whether or not a joke makes it in, but if both jokes make it to the final product, then you're left with an episode that really makes no sense. Nonsensical plots are one of the pitfalls that many Scully-era episodes fell in to. So, what that long winded explanation means is that 80% of the blame rides on Scully's shoulders, but 20% is the staff's fault.
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Gorky
DOOP Secretary
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I think this sounds hypocritical, but in response to PCC Fred:
[Scruffy]Second[/Scruffy]
And anyway, the Simpson family would probably adopt another daughter, name her Lisa, and pretend that nothing ever happened.
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User_names_suck
Professor
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On the subject of showrunners while they take the majority of responsibility, the other writers can still Improve the quality. Season 9 and some of season 10 I think still had David Cohen, Rich Appel as CO-executive producers, Oakley and Weinstein were consultants.There were still some Great writers.But for 11 and 12 there were some shitty ones, Scully probably had to bring new writers in, he can Blamed for bringing in bad ones, but still if you had lots of classic writers still working there it would have been a lot better. It shows under Al Jean that no matter how good a Showrunner, Your still going to have problems if the rest of the staff is bad. In season 15 the worst of them may have left and better ones may have joined the team (Bill Odenkirk for example.) so its a gradual process of Improving the show, although admiittedly you'd still expect a lot better by this point.
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~FazeShift~
Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
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Milhouse is awesome! Lisa: "Here comes Milhouse with the newslette... no, wait the birds have him!" Milhouse: "Aaaaagh Aaaaaghh!!"
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