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Author Topic: All alone in the night...  (Read 1000 times)
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Lurrr

Professor
*
« on: 07-18-2003 10:29 »

A thread dedicated to Babylon 5, since we don't have one. I know there some B5 fans here (*cough*Fred*cough*) so lets have some discussion! What are your favorite episodes? Know any decent B5 sites? And what did you think of Crusade?

Begin!

Stuart B

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #1 on: 07-18-2003 11:36 »

I tremendously enjoyed B5, though S5 seemed a little shaky in parts (which probably came from JMS having to wrap up the shadow war in S4)

Crusade was in parts entertaining and cringeworthy. The most memorable scene for me being Peter Woodward camping it up with a remote probe being abducted...
mazaite

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #2 on: 07-18-2003 12:45 »

I liked B5 so much I spent 5 years getting the tapes from columbia house. (They sit in a box now. Lots of them)

I particularly liked "War without end"
And I never saw Crusades.
~FazeShift~

Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #3 on: 07-18-2003 16:02 »

Do I remember seeing female nudity in B5?
Tweek

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #4 on: 07-18-2003 16:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ~FazeShift~:
Do I remember seeing female nudity in B5?
Lyta Alexander took her top off, brief, and three-quarters rear as I recall.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #5 on: 07-18-2003 17:29 »

"War Without End" is quite possibly the best episode of anything I've ever seen!  The mere thought that J. Michael Straczynski was planning ahead must've sent several Trek writers into comas.

And yes, Lyta is H-O-T!  love
Lurrr

Professor
*
« Reply #6 on: 07-18-2003 18:10 »

 
Quote
Lyta Alexander took her top off, brief, and three-quarters rear as I recall.

Plus Ivanova wanders into C&C naked at one point, and that Nightwatch agent strips when seducing Sheridan. No full frontals though (unless Fazeshift has some 'special' versions of these episodes  wink).

I still think that "Z'ha'dum" is the most breathtaking episode I've seen. That cliffhanger beats any other programme.
~FazeShift~

Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #7 on: 07-18-2003 19:05 »

I don't recall ever watching a whole episode, I was just flicking around on telly one day, and I thought: "Hey!! Sci-fi porn?!? Could my dreams be coming true?"
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #8 on: 07-18-2003 20:30 »

After B5 fan club "Psi-Corps" finished second in the SFX awards, it ran an advert in SFX, featuring a naked chick with a Psi-Corps jacket over one shoulder.  The tag line - "Sometimes coming second isn't such a bad thing!"  flirt
mazaite

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #9 on: 07-19-2003 02:25 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PCC Fred:

And yes, Lyta is H-O-T!   love

You'll have that when you have a body sculpted out of working as a stunt woman as opposed to just being an actress and kicking it in a gym a couple times a week.

But I liked Ivonova more.

Michael Zaite
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #10 on: 07-19-2003 19:13 »

Yeah, yeah, I remember Patricia Tallman in the choice role of "female security officer" on TNG.  And as Nana Visitor's stunt double in DS9.
Hulkbuster

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #11 on: 07-19-2003 22:54 »

B5 is the best complete sci-fi program to date. Nothing can touch it, I'm embarrasingly lax in my trivia, since when it was originally released over here the times it was shown were very erratic. I'm making up for lost time now though, I have the first two seasons on DVD and the third on pre-order. Its better than I ever remember it being and its a shame it received the crappy treatment it did during original broadcast. Must all great shows labour under evil executives??
mazaite

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #12 on: 07-20-2003 15:59 »

It got crappy treatment in your market.
It was a sindicated show so the treatment varried from station to station. WUAB in Cleveland ran it Saturday at 7pm with a rerun at I think 2am. All the way up untill the switch to TNT.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #13 on: 07-20-2003 20:13 »

The UK treatment was as follows:

Season 1 - Sunday lunchtimes, with the pilot shown AFTER "Chrysalis".  I never saw the first episode because it clashed with the 1994 Monaco GP.

Season 2 - Sunday lunchtimes, and the bad editing was at it's worst here.  In "Coming of Shadows" you don't see the Centauri Prime Minister being assassinated, and in "Comes the Inquisitor" during the scene where G'Kar and Vir are in the lift, G'Kar's hand starts dripping blood for no apparent reason.

Season 3 - Suuuuunday lunchtimes!

Season 4 - Thursday nights, the only period where it was on at a decent timeslot.

Season 5 (Episodes 1-17) - Friday nights, although World Cup coverage pushed it later and later until it was airing at midnight, Saturday morning.

Season 5 (Episodes 18-22) - "Sleeping in Light", the greatest, most moving series finale since "Blackadder", aired on January 1st 1999... at 11:00am, as part of the Big Breakfast.  no no
mazaite

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #14 on: 07-21-2003 01:33 »

Well that along with Pay by the byte Internet service and London Mayor Ken Livingstone. Makes me really depressed about the way of life in the UK. Do they give a damn about the end user at all over there?
Lurrr

Professor
*
« Reply #15 on: 07-21-2003 06:13 »

@PCC Fred: Is that the Channel 4 times? Because I'm sure season 3 was being aired on a Tuesday on 4 (I know this because it was my job to record them every week).

I only started watching B5 in the third season because, as I said, my Dad wanted me to record it. I saw a couple of second season episodes but in the end I got to rewatch the first season when my Dad bought it on video. Having now got the first season DVDs I'm surprised at just how well-written the series is, even at this early stage.
mazaite

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #16 on: 07-21-2003 14:49 »

thing is there was no early stage, JMS had it all planed out from the get go and had years of writing experience behind him.
Hulkbuster

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #17 on: 07-23-2003 17:58 »
« Last Edit on: 07-23-2003 17:58 »

I just saw something called "Babylon 5: Legends of the Rangers" Or something similar. I don't think i will ever recover. It was terrible, the enemy was called "The Hand" a race so terrible it makes the shadows look like mere insects. Another precursor race, jeez i never put J.m down as unoriginal. And the space fights saw the weapons officer floating and punching at the ships to target, it was horrible... horrible...  no no 
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #18 on: 07-23-2003 18:36 »

I saw about half an hour of it this morning.  Oh dear.  I didn't spot the slightest sign that anyone was in danger of developing a personality of any kind, and even G'Kar seemed odd compared to his B5 persona.

In all honesty, back in 1998 JMS should have ignored the calls for a B5 spinoff in the first place.  "The Gathering" and the original 110 episodes were perfectly fine as they were, without the need for the pointless telemovies and the dire "Crusade".

@Lurr - sorry, I got mixed up there.  I was actually referring to the S4C times.  However I know for the fact that the C4 and S4C versions were equally badly edited.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #19 on: 02-25-2004 12:27 »
« Last Edit on: 02-26-2004 00:00 »

Season 5 is due out on DVD soon, and JMS said he hopes that also this year they'll release a special set of all the TV movies (including Legend of the Rangers) and another set with all of Crusade.  I'd like to see a documentary or interview for Crusade, and hear all the stupid yet hilarious things TNT did.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #20 on: 02-25-2004 18:55 »

Screw Crusade and the TV movies set!  I think my sister's planning to get rid of her B5 videos, so if I ask nicely I can get the telemovies off her.  smile

On a related note, am I the only one who thinks the DVDs aren't all they're cracked up to be?  The widescreen seems to have been accomplished by chopping off the top and bottom of the full screen picture!  And as for the quality, it's one of the poorest picture transfers I've seen.  hmpf
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #21 on: 02-25-2004 19:52 »
« Last Edit on: 02-25-2004 19:52 »

I've heard complaints about the picture quality on the DVDs, but I haven't noticed anything.  Of course, my television isn't exactly state-of-the-art.  The live-action parts of the show were filmed in widescreen, but for some reason the space shots were done in 4:3.  However, JMS says they did their best to adjust them, more than just sticking bars on the top and bottom of the screen.  There aren't too many extras on the DVDs, but those I've seen were good.  The commentary on "The Geometry of Shadows" with Bruce Boxleitner, Claudia Christian, and Jerry Doyle was great, even though they barely talk about the episode.  It's just really funny.  Doyle claims he really does pretend to be Bruce Willis.

None of the movies were really that great, probably because B5 works best in long, detailed stories.  About Legend of the Rangers, people above already complained of the uninteresting characters and the downright stupid idea of the woman punching and kicking to fire weapons.  Did no one realize how goofy that looked?  It also seems unnecessary and wildly impractical.  Still, a series based on that probably would have been better than the new Battlestar Galactica they're making.

I liked Crusade, and from what I've heard about TNT's interference, it's amazing they managed to do even the small numbers of episodes it had.  "Visitors from Down the Street" was funny and very clever (even though I don't like that certain other sci-fi show).
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #22 on: 02-26-2004 01:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Lurrr:
What are your favorite episodes?

"Deathwalker"
"Grail"
"The Coming of Shadows"
"In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum"
"Comes the Inquisitor"
"The Fall of Night"
" Passing Through Gethsemane"
"Dust to Dust"
" A Late Delivery from Avalon"
"War Without End"
"Falling Toward Apotheosis"
"Intersections in Real Time"
"A View from the Gallery"
"Day of the Dead"
and
"Sleeping in Light"

...just to name a few.

 
Quote
Know any decent B5 sites?

The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 is a pretty good one.

 
Quote
And what did you think of Crusade?

I liked it, especially Peter Woodward's perfomances, but it just wasn't Babylon 5, if you know what I mean.

Speak softly. Drive a Sherman tank.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #23 on: 04-17-2004 11:34 »

Recently I watched "Divided Loyalties" again; I remember it was one of the ones that blew my mind when I first saw it.  But were Ivanova and Talia actually lesbians (or in a homosexual relationship)?  It's never explained.  We need to know!
Pitt Clemens

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #24 on: 04-17-2004 12:02 »

I remember watching Babylon 5 for the specific reason of seeing a sci-fi show entirely made with CG environments.  Now adays, I'd almost rather watch a sci-fi show that uses models.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #25 on: 04-17-2004 12:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
Recently I watched "Divided Loyalties" again; I remember it was one of the ones that blew my mind when I first saw it.  But were Ivanova and Talia actually lesbians (or in a homosexual relationship)?  It's never explained.  We need to know!

I don't think that they were really in a relationship yet.  They were starting to develop one, and they probably would have become a couple, but ...well, you know what happened.

And if you feel the need to put labels on them, they're bisexual, not lesbians.  Talia had been in a previous relationship with Jason Ironheart, and Ivanova showed interest in men both before and after Talia, most notably Marcus.  (Hey, that's another relationship that never really happened for Ivanova.  She really doesn't seem to do very well in the romance department, does she?)

Speak softly. Drive a Sherman tank.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #26 on: 04-17-2004 14:22 »

Notice that I put lesbians "or in a homosexual relationship;" I also remember their previous heterosexual relationships.  "Lesbians" just sounds neater.

I heard that if Claudia Christian had stayed for the fifth season, she as well as Lyta would have been involved with Byron.  Bleah.
Lurrr

Professor
*
« Reply #27 on: 04-17-2004 15:27 »

 
Quote
ecently I watched "Divided Loyalties" again; I remember it was one of the ones that blew my mind when I first saw it. But were Ivanova and Talia actually lesbians (or in a homosexual relationship)? It's never explained. We need to know!

Most of the fans point to 'Ceremonies of Light and Darkness' as proof that Ivanova was sexually attracted to Talia. I don't think it really makes much of an impact on the series to be honest.

 
Quote
On a related note, am I the only one who thinks the DVDs aren't all they're cracked up to be? The widescreen seems to have been accomplished by chopping off the top and bottom of the full screen picture! And as for the quality, it's one of the poorest picture transfers I've seen.

I haven't noticed really. My Dad seemed impressed with the picture quality and he's really picky about these things. I love the cast commentaries though, even though it basically involves Bruce Boxleitner trying to say something useful amongst everyone else's hi-jinks.

 
Quote
I liked Crusade, and from what I've heard about TNT's interference, it's amazing they managed to do even the small numbers of episodes it had. "Visitors from Down the Street" was funny and very clever (even though I don't like that certain other sci-fi show).

I think Crusade just needed some time to pick up. Supposedly the next episode to be made was a Bester episode- and Walter Koening has said it was the best Bester script he'd ever read! I think the script has been leaked onto the net. But I would do just about anything to see that episode made!!!
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #28 on: 04-17-2004 17:29 »
« Last Edit on: 04-17-2004 17:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
Notice that I put lesbians "or in a homosexual relationship;" I also remember their previous heterosexual relationships.  "Lesbians" just sounds neater.

Well, you can call them whatever you like, I suppose.  Personally, I just call them "Susan" and "Talia".

 
Quote
I heard that if Claudia Christian had stayed for the fifth season, she as well as Lyta would have been involved with Byron.  Bleah.

I heard that if she had stayed, she instead of Lyta would have been involved with Byron.  I'm not sure how Lyta would have fit into the Byron storyline if that were the case though.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Lurrr:
Most of the fans point to 'Ceremonies of Light and Darkness' as proof that Ivanova was sexually attracted to Talia. I don't think it really makes much of an impact on the series to be honest.

It wasn't supposed to make an impact.  It was meant to be a non-issue.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #29 on: 04-18-2004 22:32 »

In the original Season 5, it was Susan and not Lyta who was involved with Byron.  I've seen that much comfirmed elsewhere.  In fact from the info I have, Lyta apparently orignally had a much reduced role in Season 5.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #30 on: 04-19-2004 12:08 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PCC Fred:
Lyta apparently orignally had a much reduced role in Season 5.

Maybe that would have been for the best.  I can't really say that I liked the direction they took with Lyta in Season 5.

Also, I would definitely have preferred to see Ivanova as the captain of B5, instead of that Tracy Scoggins character.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #31 on: 04-19-2004 18:08 »

I wonder if Lyta was originally intended to finish up with Zack or something?  There seemed to be the seeds of a story during the middle of Season 4, but it was never picked up in Season 5 as Lyta was used to replace Ivanova.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #32 on: 04-19-2004 18:28 »

The fact that Lyta does not appear in "Sleeping in Light" might be significant, considering that it was filmed at the end of season 4.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #33 on: 04-19-2004 20:39 »

Okay, maybe I just put labels on people, but I have the answers to your questions:

The romance would have been between Ivanova and Byron, but Lyta basically would have loved him from afar (don't ask me what women see in him), though she wouldn't have done anything about it.  And besides that, her role in the season (with her becoming the new telepath leader and so forth) would have been pretty much the same.  So it looks like Zack probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere with her even if the story was different, and if he did she still would have left at the end.  But a few times in season 5 we do see that he is still interested in her.

As for Lyta not appearing in the last episode, she as well as Lennier are supposed to die in the Telepath War.  I always figured she would "transcend" like Ironheart, but it seems she just dies.  And I don't know what Lennier was doing there.  JMS says he's actually planned out the deaths of other characters, and has hinted about Garibaldi, Delenn, and Franklin.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #34 on: 04-20-2004 01:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
Okay, maybe I just put labels on people, but I have the answers to your questions:

The romance would have been between Ivanova and Byron, but Lyta basically would have loved him from afar (don't ask me what women see in him),

He has long hair, recites poetry, and mopes about how crummy his life is.  Chicks dig that stuff.

 
Quote
though she wouldn't have done anything about it.  And besides that, her role in the season (with her becoming the new telepath leader and so forth) would have been pretty much the same.

So then, the only real difference would have been that Ivanova would have had yet another short-lived romance that ended in tragedy?  Lovely.

 
Quote
So it looks like Zack probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere with her even if the story was different, and if he did she still would have left at the end.  But a few times in season 5 we do see that he is still interested in her.

Yeah, Zack was interested in Lyta, but she never felt the same way about him.

 
Quote
As for Lyta not appearing in the last episode, she as well as Lennier are supposed to die in the Telepath War.

I knew that.  I wasn't sure if that had already been decided back at the end of season 4, but knowing JMS, I wouldn't be surprised.  It's interesting though, that her name wasn't mentioned when they toasted absent friends.  Then again, no one who was present was very close to Lyta.  Maybe if Zack had been there, he would have mentioned her.

 
Quote
I always figured she would "transcend" like Ironheart, but it seems she just dies.

Yeah, kind of a pointless end for Lyta, really.  She doesn't even outlive Bester.

 
Quote
And I don't know what Lennier was doing there.

Trying to redeem himself, after betraying the Anla-Shok.  I'm not really sure what telepaths have to do with that, though.

 
Quote
JMS says he's actually planned out the deaths of other characters, and has hinted about Garibaldi, Delenn, and Franklin.

Well, we know that Delenn lives for a hundred years after the founding of the Interstellar Alliance, at least.

Speak softly. Drive a Sherman tank.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #35 on: 04-20-2004 02:40 »
« Last Edit on: 04-20-2004 02:40 »

     
Quote
Originally posted by David A:
He has long hair, recites poetry, and mopes about how crummy his life is. Chicks dig that stuff.
What I didn't like about Byron was that we were supposed to sympathize with him at least to some degree, but he was just so annoying.  It didn't help that the actor who played him wasn't so great, or that he had some ridiculous dialogue (remember the bit about Lyta being his "willow?").  I knew he had to die at some point, but it took forever: he ended up being in eight episodes.  Eight!  That's more than Lorien or Lord Refa, who were both only in six.  (Morden was in twelve, if you're counting.)
moonbus69

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #36 on: 04-20-2004 02:53 »
« Last Edit on: 04-20-2004 02:53 »

Yes, Byron was a bit annoying. Some aspects of his character were interesting though, as he reminded me of Michael Valentine Smith, the main character in Robert Heinlein's novel, "Stranger In A Strange Land".


B5 is hands down in the top three or four Sci-Fi TV series ever produced...

Who am I kiddin' -- B5 is the greetest Sci-Fi TV show EVER made!!!       wink
Tweek

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #37 on: 04-20-2004 04:15 »

Perhaps I'm going senile and am mixed up, but I thought Lyta went off with G'kar at the end and her fate wasn't mentioned  hmpf
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #38 on: 04-20-2004 05:54 »

You're not going senile.

@Jackson - that bit about Lyta/Lennier dying in the Telepath War.  Was that part of the original Season 5, or something JMS thought about when creating Crusade?
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #39 on: 04-20-2004 11:48 »

Their deaths were mentioned in the Crusade "bible" and Lyta's death was also mentioned in one of the original novels, I think.  I don't believe JMS ever intended for the Telepath War to happen during the show.
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