LAN.gnome
Urban Legend
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Originally posted by El Zilcho: "Wrote themselves into a corner"? What are you on? They were planning on these two movies (or at least a sequel of some sort) since the first movie. They didn't say "Hey, Matrix made a lot of money! Let's sequel-ize it!" It was planned. I'm sure you're right. I'm also sure that I'm right, too. Confused? Don't be, the Wachoski's are just following in the footsteps of George Lucas. George Lucas too planned out a whole series of episodic installments for Star Wars, coming to 9 in total. When he actually begain the process of making the films, he picked what he thought was the most interesting of the three trilogies. But, since the movie could have turned out to be a flop, Lucas made sure to bring up all the elements he would be satisfied in covering were "Star Wars: A New Hope" to become the only filmed episode. This is why we get the 2nd, bigger Death Star in Return of the Jedi; the original plan was to space out much of the main story (rebels vs. the Death Star) over the three episodes of the middle trilogy. I'd be willing to bet the Watchowskis did the same thing; in order to make a movie that would be satifying if it turned out to be the only part of their planned trilogy to be filmed, they had to bring up most of their best points. Also, the sequel comment I made referred to the pumping-up of the action and special effects in the later two movies. I would not be at all surprised to find the original concepts for Reloaded and Revolutions to be more cerebral than the version that were filmed.
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El Zilcho
Professor
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Alright, you're off the hook... for now.
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DrThunder88
DOOP Secretary
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Originally posted by VelourFog:
as long as we're asking pointless questions I want to know who's the idiot who thinks walking on the ceiling can compare to the original Matrix effects. Who the hell did those guys think they were? Vampires? I still don't understand the logic of those machines. If Neo was dead, why would they honor a promise to not waste everyone in Zion? I know if I were some sort of all-powerful mechano-head that controlled armies of squiggly killbots designed for one thing (killing, duh), I wouldn't hesitate to use them to destroy my squishy pink enemies after I had used one of them to destroy another thorn in my side. That's the same kind of logic that would have permitted Cypher to rejoin the Matrix in the first film rather than killing him after exploiting him. It's just not very mechanical. This break in the machines' logic also confused me when it came time for the ending. Why would the Architect keep a promise if he is, in fact, not as human as he claims? The Oracle really wasn't holding anything over his head, forcing him into agreeing. There is really nothing logical about honor, unless these machines were built with artificial nobility as well as intelligence. I was also a bit confused by the interaction with the Indian family. Why would any program program a program to have emotions? I can see the inherent instabilities in such a scheme, I have to imagine that an artificial intelligence would see it too unless it was atificial stupid or artificial inebriated. There's that wierd logic again. My friend pointed out that the fact that Neo was the Matrix Jesus was sort of force-fed in the ending, and I have to agree, given his final body posture and the line about seeing him again. Some notes/questions/comments: - Can they make a Matrix movie without a pseudo-erotic rave scene?
- The final fight with Smith was way over the top. Granted, the circumstances required a bigger fight than previous instances, but there has to be a line. I was waiting for one of them to start breathing atomic fire or shooting laser eyebeams.
- I hate the Mergovian.
- Seriously, I hate him.
- A hold-over question from the second film: You can upload anything you need into the Matrix except Kevlar vests and parachutes?
- Why is hand-to-hand combat more effective against Neo than bullets?
- Come on, Blane or whatever his name was sounded just like Smith. How could anyone not tell it was him?
- Damn that smarmy smartass Mergovian and his exceptionally hot wife.
- Did Morpheus really need those red dots on his guns? He really wasn't aiming.
- I did think this movie was a bit more funny than the first two. Keanu Reeves really must have stretched his acting hamstrings for the "Shit" line.
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El Zilcho
Professor
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Originally posted by DrThunder88: My friend pointed out that the fact that Neo was the Matrix Jesus was sort of force-fed in the ending, and I have to agree, given his final body posture and the line about seeing him again.
Don't forget the cross-shaped lens flare when the machine was pumping Neo up, not to mention the fact that he died so everyone else could live.
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El Zilcho
Professor
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Originally posted by DrJerkberg: Of course money is an issue. That's the film industry. But the Wachowskis are not in it just for the money. Originally posted by VelourFog: yeah, it's totally not about the money AT ALL. I'm sorry, I was wrong. I think Jerkberg's point was that they were trying to make money, but more than that, thay wanted to make a good movie that people enjoyed.
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~FazeShift~
Moderator
DOOP Ubersecretary
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Originally posted by LAN.gnome: The Watchowskis fell victim to their own success and felt the pressure to make some sequels to rake in the cash. They used up all their best ideas in the first film, so in the later two installments they wrote themselves into a corner.
They said they (the bros.) wrote it as a trilogy, so they most likely already had the story in their heads or on paper somewhere before all the hype and popularity(?, I'm open to correction). Also, I've played the game and a game it was, you get to do game stuff, like beat the crap out of sub-cretin AI and shoot stuff, and that's all I look for in a game now and then. It did have a separate story and enough tie-in to the films for me, I liked it and had no bugs/glitches at all. (I'm a Software Engineer and had no major complaints about it = easy to please).
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User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #171 on: 11-08-2003 14:22 »
« Last Edit on: 11-08-2003 14:22 »
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They said they (the bros.) wrote it as a trilogy, so they most likely already had the story in their heads or on paper somewhere before all the hype and popularity(?, I'm open to correction).
yeah i'd like to see the script outline for reloaded.
"have people talking a bit about some kind of philosophical, stuff, have neo, doubt he's the one, have a sweaty dance orgy, have a load of action sequences, a little more talking then some more action sequences, then do a bit to pretend we have a plot so we can link it to a car chase action sequence, and eventually lead to another big plot philosphy bit, then some romantic thing, then a bit more action with a bit of a twist at the end then say to be continued."
now i haven't seen revloutions, but i'm hoping to have it completley spoiled for me, as i'm not planning to see it, as from what i've heard its only marginally less shit than reloaded
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SlaytanicMaggot
Professor
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« Reply #172 on: 11-08-2003 16:06 »
« Last Edit on: 11-08-2003 16:06 »
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Revolutions is a masterpiece of an action movie. It spends like 2 minutes on plot, the rest on action. And despite most of the action being CGI, this time around the CGI is GOOD. If you like explosions, machine guns, and destruction, this is a movie you should see. If you are a die-hard matrix fan, WATCH IT!!!!!!!
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Otis P Jivefunk
DOOP Secretary
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Originally posted by ~FazeShift~: Well done Larry and Andy, nice little trilogy, short stories and game you've made. Good lads! And don't forget the awesome book, 'The Art of The Matrix'. If you haven't got that, you're missing out.
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The Names Nick
Professor
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Originally posted by mikey: Alot of it left me thinking what the hell just happened. Why did all the smiths die when the original Smith went all hand in stomach to leo? Well, first of all a program can't die. I'm kind of shooting from the hip here, but here is what I think happened. The reason that Smith was destroyed is because his existence depended on Neo. The Oracle even told Neo that Agent Smith was like the opposite of himself(Neo). Neo being an Anomaly(kind of like an inequality in the system) while, Agent Smith was the second Anomaly(The other resulting inequality). In the end of the movie the two opposite inequalities become one. Resulting in a single equality, and the Matrix is stable again.(at least for a while) ( ; For a simpler version think of Smith as an Acid and think of Neo as a base. Mix them together and they cancel each other out.
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Grim
Professor
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People question the machine's logic and ease of compliance to the request for peace, but keep in mind, in the second renassiance short that the machines kept attempting peace, and it was the humans that didnt listen.
also why does everyone think neo is dead? The last shot we see of him, is in Matrixy Neo Vision of him looking up, wouldnt he have just gone back to normal like everyone else who was "Smith Copied" ?
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sheep555
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #178 on: 11-09-2003 04:43 »
« Last Edit on: 11-09-2003 04:43 »
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Originally posted by SlaytanicMaggot: And despite most of the action being CGI, this time around the CGI is GOOD. You mean they didn't reuse CGI from the video game? Originally posted by El Zilcho: Don't forget the cross-shaped lens flare when the machine was pumping Neo up, not to mention the fact that he died so everyone else could live. Matrix 4: The Resurrection
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DrThunder88
DOOP Secretary
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Originally posted by VelourFog: and Die hard Matrix fans shouldn't be that fond of the 3rd one, since all the action just seems like a rip off of other action sci fi movies. It's not unique to the franchise at all. That's what I'm worried about. I was disappointed with the third (usually the strongest in a trilogy) installment of Jurassic Park and now they're making a fourth. Does this mean a fourth for The Matrix? Originally posted by sheep555: Matrix 4: The Resurrection Followed by The Matrix: Judgement Day and The Matrix: Rereleased.
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LAN.gnome
Urban Legend
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Originally posted by sheep555: Matrix 4: The Resurrection I think The Matrix: Reviolated is a better fit. Or perhaps The Matrix: Regurgitated.
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Rage Dump
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #183 on: 11-09-2003 06:58 »
« Last Edit on: 11-09-2003 06:58 »
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Curse you fanboys! Lazy Overview M1 : Good, besides it being a bit slow in the middle M2 : Good, besides the crappy sex scene (I Can't believe i just said that...) and other slow bits M3 : Good, besides the corny ending and again the slow bits Everyone of them is jam-packed full of action, wicked sound and awesome CGI/effects. Awaits oncoming barrage of fanboys' comments...Question (If applicable) : If you hated the second one so much, why did you see the third one? Just so you'd have something else to complain about?
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Melllvar
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #186 on: 11-09-2003 19:39 »
« Last Edit on: 11-09-2003 19:39 »
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I have one complaint about Revolutions: Why isn't Zach De La Rocha rapping over the end credits in this one? Goddammit, it's like, a tradition. Rage Against The Machine, geddit?
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Otis P Jivefunk
DOOP Secretary
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Originally posted by Melllvar: I have one complaint about Revolutions:
Why isn't Zach De La Rocha rapping over the end credits in this one? Goddammit, it's like, a tradition. Rage Against The Machine, geddit? Because they're no longer raging against the machines...
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evan
Urban Legend
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« Reply #191 on: 11-10-2003 20:12 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2003 20:12 »
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RATM broke up before Reloaded was in pre-production. So it's just their desire to dump cheap religious themed music on it. Originally posted by DrThunder88: Who the hell did those guys think they were? Vampires?
Uh, yeah, they were. All of the Merogevian's(sp?) goons are "paranormals." Vampires, the ghost twins from Reloaded, and Seraph (an angel.) Sorry if this was a rhetorical question. Originally posted by Rage Dump: Question (If applicable) : If you hated the second one so much, why did you see the third one? Just so you'd have something else to complain about? It's like the Star Wars prequels. Lucas (and the Whackalaskis) know that if people saw the first and second one, they're going to come back for the third. I bet you that the majority of this board hated Episode 1, but they still went and saw Episode 2, and will see Episode 3.
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wu_konguk
Urban Legend
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Well I think this is a pretty good sumation of the movie from Andy of Atomictoy Originally posted by Andy of Atomictoy: Oh shit, now it is time to talka bout The Matrix Revolutions, "becasue even cookies need love." Spoilers, etc.
Yeah, so Revolutions. I have to admit, that most of this movie was more entertaining than Reloaded, and that the whole attack on zion part looked pretty impressive becasue it was 100% CG and there weren't too many digital stuntpeople and shit. However, all that was erased witthe PAWNCH CAM to Smith's face where he jiggled excessivly, and the whole rain-sphere DBZ arial slapfight that was totally out of context for what the entire other 2 movies has set up and should have been enough to get a lot of digital animator's hands broken forever. I liked how the writers constantly copped out of explaing anything by completely negating any segway. THere is no explaination or reason to the plot jumps, and are explained away like this:
NEO: Dude, Oracle. What do I do next so we can bumble on to another scene? ORACLE: Neo, you totally already know. NEO: I already know? ORACLE: You will when the time comes for you to already know. Then you will have to choose if you know or not. NEO: Choose? ORACLE: Maybe. NEO: Oh fuck.
It is like saying "You have to go here and do this becasue" and then not saying why and then blaming all teh plotholes on "the prophecy." it is lazy writing and a cop out. Like that whole train scene in the begining. it had NO POINT and no bearing on the rest of the movie. Even at the very end it was:
SMITH: WHY, Mr. Anderson? WHY did this movie spiral out of control and why am I suddenly the bad guy and not the machinnes? PS THE THEME OF THIS MOVES IS LOVE MR. ANDERSON. NEO: um... *NEO then LOSES and EXPLODES. S/FX: Gay*
Meanwhile, the machines still run on peoplepower, zion is still dirty, and the first matrix movie is still the only good one. MOST HILARIOUS MOMENT: Revealing that Trinity has been impiled on 18 randomly jutting out pieces of ribar and how they wiggled when neo hugger her. T_T
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Melllvar
DOOP Secretary
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So does the Melllovingian I agree to a certain point that the Reloaded expended on the plot too far for Revolutions to answer every question fully (some bits did seem rushed, and/or forced). However, compare that with the first one: Neo wakes up, he trains, he fights and wins. The end.Perhaps, the plot expanding in the second and third installment, makes up for the pedestrian-ness of the first.
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