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Author Topic: HEAVY SPOILER WARNING: This is an in-depth discussion of The Matrix Reloaded  (Read 6367 times)
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LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
***
« on: 05-15-2003 17:06 »
« Last Edit on: 05-15-2003 17:06 »

If youíre here on accident, allow me to repeat the following:

HEAVY SPOILER WARNING: This is an in-depth discussion of The Matrix Reloaded. Don't read this if you donít want to know specific plot details from the movie.

First things first:

Was it cool: Yes!
Did it live up to my expectations: Well... yes and no. Mostly yes.
Do I recommend it: If you liked the first one, you'll probably like this one too, but maybe not as much.

Onto the discussion:

Iím mostly going to focus on negative stuff, since thatís what really keeps bugging me right now. Donít think that I didnít like the movie, I just want to get this all off my chest.

Hey, why that whole rave at Zion thing? Completely unnecessary to show as much as they did during that party scene -- the same can certainly be said for the sex scene with Neo and Trinity. One thing I appreciated about the original was the *lack* of sex. If I wanted to watch a porno, I go watch one, but thatís not what I wanted from this movie.  I donít want to see Keanu Reeveís butt! I donít want to be able to see each pelvic thrust! It was sooo long! I hated that part. Take out that, and a lot of the speech Morpheus gives right before, and Iíd like this movie a whole lot more.

There is a lot of heavy-handed speechifying in this movie. everyone gets to make a long-winded speech (not all of them are bad, though):
Morpheus
Agent Smith
The Oracle
Commander Lock
Merovingian
Persephone... sort of
The Architect
Various councilpersons

This can get boring. Iíd agree with Roger Ebertís opinion that a lot of it is just important-sounding, and not really as philosophical as it sounds. With the exception of the Architectís stuff and some from the Merovingian, a lot of it was just double talk -- scientific mumbo-jumbo, if you will.

I think they ended up showing a bit too much of Zion, and Zion ended up being kind of a mishmash of tribal, cyberpunk, and industrial styles (the Zion caves vs. the living quarters vs. the ship docking area, respectively). And they went a little overboard on some of the costumes on Zion -- especially the council members.

I didnít like the Zion council or Commander Lock at all, even in theory. I guess I just envisioned the human resistance as more ragtag, and less of a military hierarchy guided by a diplomatic government. I imagined more lone-wolf ships like Morpheusí, making their own way through the sewers. I do see the need to prevent someone from doing something stupid and leading everyone to Zion, though. Just wish it could have been executed better.

Here's a thing I'm wondering about: is it some unwritten law that all the free minds have to wear cool shades and leather when they're in the matrix? I noticed this during a lot of fight scenes, with all manner of participants. Almost everyone had sunglasses. I think this is one thing that makes the action bits more impersonal, more like a videogame. I want to see the actorís eyes, see whatís going on in there. Or not going on, in Keanuís case.    smile

The ď100 Agent SmithsĒ fight scene didnít impress me as much as i thought it would -- it seemed too long, and too much had been shown in trailers. I happen to have read an interview where they reveal that most of this sequence was fought with digital stunt doubles, especially in Keanuís case. Unfortunately, as impressive as the effects are, you can still tell that they are CG effects. More wire-work in this part would have improved it greatly.

These two factors (CG and shades) combine to make a lot of fight seuqences more impersonal and less gutteral than they should have been. Looking back at the first Matrix, a lot of Keanu's fighting was done without shades, and we could see more of his expressions. This movie seems devoid of any expression at all, every is so serious, all the time.

A minor note, but some of the background music during the kung-fu parts was too gothic-choral for this movie, it sounded too much like something from Lord of the Rings. The techno-type soundtrack of the first movie should have been used as a template for scoring this movie. The techno music during the length of the freeway battle is very, very good though!

On that note, on to the good bits:

When this movie is awesome, it is awesome. The whole 15-20 minutes of the freeway battle is exhilarating, lots of well-done, howdidtheydothat-type effects. Lots of real automobile destruction, too.

I liked the revelations abut the Matrix, how the One is an essential part of the program, the cyclical nature of the human resistance, etc. I liked Neoís kung-fu fight with the Merovingianís bodyguards, much more in fact than the Agent Smith fight.

I liked the character of the Keymaker a lot, and the Merovingian for the most part. The architect was kinda neat. Good voice. The twins were nicely evil, too; very satisfying on their part.

I liked the bit where the Keymaker outlines what they need to do to get on the 65th floor of that building, and the ďbackdoorĒ concept of the matrix program in general. Nice bits about rogue programs being the explanation for paranormal activity, too (werewolves, UFOs, ghosts, etc.).

Whew. Thatís it for now. Iíve only just gotten started!

PS: I liked the part where we learn how the matrix really works: everyone wears electronium hats, which harness the power of sunspots to create cognitiv--- I mean, an immense, virtual world.     smile

Edit: head on over to http://www.pvponline.com  to see a lot of what I'm talking about exemplified very simply. I liked it more than this guy did, though (If you're reading this after May 15, you may need to go into the comic strip archives to the May 15th strip to see what i'm talking about).

Edit Again: http://www.herorealm.com/HotFish/reloaded.htm
This man has my exact opinion, simplified and with pictures. Consider it the movie version of my novel, above   smile
Carbito

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #1 on: 05-17-2003 05:30 »
« Last Edit on: 05-17-2003 05:30 »

What happened at the end?
I did not fully understand that. So is the "real world" another Matrix or something. Also what exactly does The Architect mean by version of the matrix.

Overall it was a very good movie, only rivaled by the original Matrix.

Edit: Don't leave when the credits start. There is a preview for the next Matrix movie after them.
Grim

Professor
*
« Reply #2 on: 05-17-2003 07:26 »
« Last Edit on: 05-17-2003 07:26 »

Yes I waited through the credits, for the 20sec trailer, should have been a longer trailer as a reward for waiting through the endless credits...


I loved how the Animatrix related to some of the scenes in Reloaded (and I suppose there will be more in Revolutions)
As I said in the Movie review thread, I liked how the Kid from the episode Kid story popped up in Zion, I think he will play an important part, as they have deliberately placed him through use of the Animatrix.
Also the mass of screens the Aritect has were used during the reconfiguration in the ep Beyond.

I am currently working my way through the Enter the Matrix video game. I recommend that if u are a fan get it, as the story runs a long side the reloaded movie, you play as either Niobe, or Ghost, and the story crosses over with the movie at times.

arg, if only I didnt have uni work to do, I wanna finish this game, see the whole story!!

Also Carb- I dont think there is a Matrix in a matrix, that would be lame. I think the Wachowski Brothers would have more taste then that!
Carbito

Starship Captain
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« Reply #3 on: 05-17-2003 09:56 »
« Last Edit on: 05-17-2003 09:56 »

I know it sounds stupid but how else did Neo use his powers to stop those sentiels and how could he feel them coming if the "real world" was not another matrix?

Grim

Professor
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« Reply #4 on: 05-17-2003 10:23 »

who knows, u wont get an answer til november, til then its magic
Carbito

Starship Captain
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« Reply #5 on: 05-17-2003 10:58 »

Do you know when The Animatrix DVD comes out in Australia?

Australian Guy

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #6 on: 05-17-2003 11:57 »

Im not looking IM not LOOKING. I think its out now, and i saw an ad for it on the ad box thingy on the main peel page.
And i heard that all the secrets come out in this one and there isnt really anything left for the trilogy.
The Names Nick

Professor
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« Reply #7 on: 05-17-2003 22:42 »

I just got back from seeing the movie. I thought it was good, and I am now looking forward to seeing how the story ends. Also does anyone else find it strange how Agent Smith seems to have become a virus? I was hoping that we would learn more about this before the movie ended, but I guess they are going to make us wait to find out.
Grim

Professor
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« Reply #8 on: 05-18-2003 05:59 »

Why didnt more people see The Animatrix when it was in cinemas for 3 days the week before Reloaded came out? All 9 episodes were played on the big screen it was awesome! makes Reloaded better coz u understand some more stuff

The free Animatrix Poster I got when I saw it, says it out instores in June.
LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #9 on: 05-18-2003 18:00 »
« Last Edit on: 05-18-2003 18:00 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Grim:I dont think there is a Matrix in a matrix, that would be lame. I think the Wachowski Brothers would have more taste then that!

Matters of tatse aside, I think the ending proved that there is a matrix within a matrix.

I think that idea goes nicely with the "subconscious choice" necessary for humans to accept the simulation talked about by the Architect. What better way to give the human race the illusion of choice than by having a mtarix within a matrix? Go ahead, let them think they have escaped the matrix and are fighting to bring the system down -- none of it matters, they're inside a greater matrix!

I think if this is true, we may see what the real real world looks like in the next film.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #10 on: 05-18-2003 23:24 »

i didn't see matrix and i don't plan on it. all the guys in my film class that went said it was awful. Every scene dragged on, the cgi was horrifically evident, the greenscreen was pixelated and badly done, the porn/rave scene was gratuitous and unnecessary, and you could see stage lights and 4x flags reflected in the actors shades. soooo not worth my time.
The Names Nick

Professor
*
« Reply #11 on: 05-18-2003 23:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
i didn't see matrix and i don't plan on it. all the guys in my film class that went said it was awful. Every scene dragged on, the cgi was horrifically evident, the greenscreen was pixelated and badly done, the porn/rave scene was gratuitous and unnecessary, and you could see stage lights and 4x flags reflected in the actors shades. soooo not worth my time.

^A perfect example of why ignorance is bliss.
Venus

Urban Legend
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« Reply #12 on: 05-18-2003 23:48 »

it may just be me but when 20 film majors give a movie the same review and are able to list the same examples, then im gonna believe them. besides i didn't care for the first one anyway.
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #13 on: 05-18-2003 23:59 »

Yeah, well, I hate to break this to you, but most film majors know jack shit about actual film. If it isn't completely pretentious or "Critically Acclaimed" or "cult," most don't like it (see, Ben -- PEEL). I can assume that they're picking on the Matrix because it's popular, and film kids hate popular movies. There are production gaffes in every single commerical and independent film out there. They highlight the Matrix to prove "how stupid mass culture is."

Trust me, some of my good friends are film majors.

The CGI wasn't that bad. There were a few seconds where it was pretty obviously not Keanu Reeves, but these were only for 20 second flashes. Compared to what it could be, I thought the CGI was pretty good.
Venus

Urban Legend
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« Reply #14 on: 05-19-2003 00:07 »

yeah, a lot of film majors do hate mainstream movies for some reason. (im not one of those, i LOVE mainstream)However, i assure you they were not picking on matrix because it was popular. they all loved the first one and had tickets to the first midnight showing several days in advance. They were so excited. Then when they came to class the next day they were very unimpressed. even the very few who did like it ok had the same technical complaints as the others.
Grim

Professor
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« Reply #15 on: 05-19-2003 01:34 »

About the Matrix within a Matrix issue, I think it could be that when Neo made his choice, it effected his exiting of the matrix, so HE hasnt actually left the matrix, prehaps, I'm not going to dwell on the issue, I am just going to wait til november and see the final one.

Until then I'm going to enjoy the Enter the Matrix game (between stupid uni work  frown )
Anarchist

Professor
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« Reply #16 on: 05-19-2003 01:39 »

I don't understand why so many people didn't like this movie. I thought it was amazing. Granted, the original Matrix was a bit better, but this movie was still amazing.

First off, the rave/sex scene: it was NOT gratuitous or unnecessery. Look at the subtext there. These people were fighting machines, and until relatively recently lived their entire lives inside a cold, dead, phony machine world. Every sensation they thought they felt was artificial. This, on the other hand, was REAL. When you have spent and will continue to spend so much time in a world of machines, you need to be reminded that you're HUMAN.
This scene did not reveal anything it shouldn't have, and while it could have been a little shorter, it was still great, and it was certainly necessery to make the movie more complete. It was there to contrast the cold, dead, soulless machines that most of the movie dealt with.

The CG effects: Yes, there was a lot of CGI here; certainly more than in the first movie. What the hell did you expect? Did you really thing they would do a scene like the "Neo vs. a shitload of Smiths" scene without CG? Heavy CGI use in a movie filled with scenes of this caliber is pretty much inevitable. Compare the most complex scenes of The Matrix to some of the scenes in The Matrix: Reloaded.

The monologues: Anyone who is bored by actual plot development and goes to see a movie like The Matrix just for the eyecandy deserves to be shot on sight. Yes, there were some serious monologues here. Most of them were good. Some of them could have been better, I agree, but overall they were very good.
The Architect's speech was truly amazing; it was even better than Agent Smith's "humanity is a virus" speech in the first movie.
I really like what they did with the Oracle and The One, too - I was wondering what this whole deal with prophecies and saviors was in the context of a plot that was based around borderline anarchic ideals of "breaking away from the system" and "being in control of your own life".
Morpheus was completely full of shit, but that's just the kind of character he is. If he hadn't had blind faith in what he was doing, he would have never found Neo. It was apparent enough that Morpheus was full of shit even in the first movie. Anyone who says that says (or rather, agrees) that they don't believe in faith because they don't like the idea that they're not in charge of their own life and then preaches things like "you are The One" and "it is your destiny" is full of shit. It's not the writers' fault; it's just the sort of character he is.
Smith was just plain awesome. Hugo Weaving easily deserves an Oscar for that performance. His speech was great, and what they did with the character was great. He disobeyed an order because Neo instilled passion and him and for that he lost his status as an Agent, making him a lot more "human" and turning him into a renegade - that was just cool. Also, I'm pretty sure that it was him who was shown at the very end there; he got out of the Matrix. It wasn't his body because he didn't HAVE a body in the real world; it was just some guy he copied himself into. If I'm right, that was EXTREMELY cool.
Zion was cool. It wasn't quite what I imagined, but then again, I didn't know what to imagine. I liked the tribal/cyberpunk mixture. I thought it fit the context nicely. As for the hierarchial leadership/military - well, no shit. For one thing, the people who got out first were natural leaders, and many of those those they saved had an understandable feeling of loyalty/gratitude toward them. Besides, if they weren't organized, they would have been destroyed a long time ago.

On a last note, pretentious film majors don't impress me. If you thought the movie sucked, make a better one. Then I'll be impressed.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #17 on: 05-19-2003 13:58 »
« Last Edit on: 05-19-2003 13:58 »

 
Quote
By evan:
see, Ben -- PEEL

Hey! I thought Ben liked The Matrix.

   
Quote
By Anarchist:
First off, the rave/sex scene: it was NOT gratuitous or unnecessery. Look at the subtext there. These people were fighting machines, and until relatively recently lived their entire lives inside a cold, dead, phony machine world. Every sensation they thought they felt was artificial. This, on the other hand, was REAL. When you have spent and will continue to spend so much time in a world of machines, you need to be reminded that you're HUMAN.
This scene did not reveal anything it shouldn't have, and while it could have been a little shorter, it was still great, and it was certainly necessery to make the movie more complete. It was there to contrast the cold, dead, soulless machines that most of the movie dealt with.

How deep. But instead of bogging down the movie with this slow, pointless scene, don't you think it would have been better if the characters acted more human in the rest of the movie? You know, instead of having Neo/Trinity/Morpheus walk around expressionless for two hours, wearing leather and shades and being badass?

I assume the Wachowski bros. had full creative control over this movie, yet the scene feels like a "focus group" type scene.

"Audiences feel disconnected to the characters. We should have a scene where they act like humans."

"I know! Let's show them dancing, for hours on end!"

"Also, we can show Keanu's ass. Humans have asses, right?"

   
Quote
Yes, there was a lot of CGI here; certainly more than in the first movie. What the hell did you expect? Did you really thing they would do a scene like the "Neo vs. a shitload of Smiths" scene without CG?

I actually thought the CGI was great(not perfect, because I could still point it out...but most shots were quick enough to not call attention to it), but to play devil's advocate: they probably could have shot it in layers, "Multiplicity" style. Or have actors of similar body size, with blue-screen masks, and then edit in Agent Smith's head. Using these methods would be a huge bitch to produce effectively, but it's something. (How often do we get a clear view of all the agents' faces? They could probably use CGI extras for the wide shots, and then use real actors for the closer up shots.)

Besides--nobody was forcing them at gunpoint to have Neo fighting hundreds of Agent Smith clones. If they couldn't make it look good, then they should have written something else.

Now like I said, I thought the CGI was great--I'm just arguing to be an ass. But when other people complain about it, don't act like it's their fault, just because "it couldn't have been done any other way".

   
Quote
The monologues: Anyone who is bored by actual plot development and goes to see a movie like The Matrix just for the eyecandy deserves to be shot on sight.

Why? I'll take story over action any day, but if the story sucks, the least they can do is cut down on some of the cheesy hour-long monologues.

   
Quote
Hugo Weaving easily deserves an Oscar for that performance.

    roll eyes

   
Quote
If you thought the movie sucked, make a better one. Then I'll be impressed.

Remember Citizen Kane? That was me!
M5438

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #18 on: 05-19-2003 14:59 »

I saw this monstrosity last night, and all I can say is WORST MOVIE EVAR!!!1111one.

Worse than Independence Day.  Worse than new Star Wars.  Worse than The Postman. (Or maybe not.  I did watch The Postman while whacked out on codeine.)

Script made less sense than the first movie.  Fights were far too long; and also boring.  The new characters sucked.  The old characters continued to suck.  There were no new robots.  The bad guys were lame (British, albino, Rastafarians driving an SUV.)  Zion was boring.  The party scene was far too long, and painfully boring.

I enjoyed hating the first movie, but this was just painful.  The only thing I liked was the keymaker.  He was awesome.  The rest can go to hell.
homerjaysimpson

Space Pope
****
« Reply #19 on: 05-19-2003 15:08 »

This is what I have to say about the Matrix:

*burns the CD soundtrack of the The Matrix Reloaded that I got for my birthday yesterday to nothing*
Tzlk
Professor
*
« Reply #20 on: 05-19-2003 15:17 »

I liked this movie.  It had a good mix of action-comedy.  I thought Link was hillarious throughout the movie.  I am reminded of terminator 2, with the SFX, and the humor mix.  My only problem with the movie would have to be the sex/dance secene.  It didnt advance the movie one bit. But hey thats nit picky, i liked it on the whole.  I also think that the reason Neo was able to stop the machines is because he has cotrol over the matrix, and since the machines are plugged into the matrix, he can control them too.  I also stayed for the short trailer at the end of the credits, cant wait for it to come out!!
LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #21 on: 05-19-2003 16:43 »
« Last Edit on: 05-19-2003 16:43 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Anarchist:
I don't understand why so many people didn't like this movie. I thought it was amazing. Granted, the original Matrix was a bit better, but this movie was still amazing.

 
Quote
Originally posted by LAN.gnome
Iím mostly going to focus on negative stuff, since thatís what really keeps bugging me right now. Donít think that I didnít like the movie, I just want to get this all off my chest.

I'm not going to go through point by point and try to defend the observations I made above, simply because I want to restate that I did like this movie -- a lot. Most of what I listed was just stuff that bugged me after the first viewing. Many of my gripes with the speeches, effects, score and such affected me much less when I saw it for a second time. (Personally, I attribute my former boredom with the speeches to be the fact that I went to a midnight showing, and was quite sleepy   smile I follow them much better now)

I tried to judge what was actually there for the most part, instead of what I usually do and moan about what was missing, and where things weren't realize as I had expected. The single point I might retract is my opinion on the look of Zion -- I must remember itís the directorsí vision of the future, not mine. I wouldn't want to live there though; seeing accommodations of the last human city, I might agree with Cypher from the first film.

I think if this movie has any faults,  the biggest one that in this movie the characters are more impersonal since the bulk of the film deals with their exploits in the matrix. While in the last one we had an Everyman -- Neo -- this time around we have a messiah-in-training. Just like how Phantom Menace suffered for lack of a Han Solo-like Everyman for the audience to identify with, so did Reloaded suffer for lacking an everyman. They turned a character we once identified with into a stoic avatar -- and maybe thatís what the Wachowskiís wanted; all Iím saying is that it made the movie less of an involving experience. I found that I identified most with Link and the Keymaker -- simply because they both seemed more vulnerable and just ďalong for the ride,Ē like the rest of the audience.

I still think the first one is better, if only for the greater mystery in that film of ďwhat is the matrix?Ē Although this newer film forces us to re-examine the answers to questions we already thought were answered. Iíd rate the first a solid A, and this one a strong B+. just short of greatness, IMO.

PS: I also wondered if Agent Smith hadn't "possessed" that one character -- I think Bane was his name. I think this all plays in to what I believe will be the revelation of the next film; that there is another matrix outside the matrix we've already seen. This would also help explain how Trinity's kiss would revive the dead Neo -- the laws of nature don't apply inside the Matrix!
M5438

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #22 on: 05-19-2003 17:11 »

Or maybe the movies just blow.  That would make far more sense considering that the Wachowskis are too inept at writing and directing to do anything that deep.
BendingUnit1141

Professor
*
« Reply #23 on: 05-20-2003 00:34 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by LAN.gnome:
  Matters of tatse aside, I think the ending proved that there is a matrix within a matrix.

I think that idea goes nicely with the "subconscious choice" necessary for humans to accept the simulation talked about by the Architect. What better way to give the human race the illusion of choice than by having a mtarix within a matrix? Go ahead, let them think they have escaped the matrix and are fighting to bring the system down -- none of it matters, they're inside a greater matrix!

I think if this is true, we may see what the real real world looks like in the next film.

Or maybe Neo can use his powers in the fake world and the real world.

Just maybe..
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #24 on: 05-20-2003 00:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by M5438:
Or maybe the movies just blow.  That would make far more sense considering that the Wachowskis are too inept at writing and directing to do anything that deep.

Somebody needs a hug!   big grin   love
Grim

Professor
*
« Reply #25 on: 05-20-2003 07:39 »

@ M5438- what were u expecting? If u wanted a deep and insightful movie, why did u go to the matrix, it is an action film, if u want something that's gonna be nominated in best acting oscar, sick with Nicole Kidman movies or movies no one has heard of sheesh.

ACTION MOVIE!
Prowla RX7

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #26 on: 05-20-2003 11:28 »

For those of you who are interested in what the Architect said.  Here's a link to that part of the script.

 http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187841
M5438

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #27 on: 05-20-2003 21:49 »

Grim: If I go to see an action movie I'd like it to at least be interesting.  Matrix Reloaded was the boringist thing I've seen in recent memory.
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #28 on: 05-21-2003 00:34 »

*hugs M5*

Group hug, everyone! Let's all go see "The Hours" and then have a big cry!
LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #29 on: 05-21-2003 04:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:Group hug, everyone! Let's all go see "The Hours" and then have a big cry!

Ahh, "The Hours." If there's any movie in recent memory that warrants the use of the term "boringest," well, there it is.
bankrupt

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #30 on: 05-21-2003 12:43 »

I finally saw this last night, I enjoyed it.  Some of the dialogue was a little long winded, but that was OK with me.  I view this movie as a setup for the third, so it's necessary to get that information in this movie.  The story is good IMO, I enjoy following the twists. It's definitely not straight ahead story, but I think that's the point.

The action was great, heavy on the CG.  Looked good to me for 99% of it.  The only spot I thought didn't look that great was where Morpheus was fighting with an agent on top of the 18 wheeler.  It looked too artificial against the background to me.  My favorite section was the courtyard fight against Agent Smith.  I especially liked when Neo used the metal pole as a bo staff.

It was commented above that the characters were too mechanical.  I think this is a natural progression. As LAN.gnome said, most of the movie takes place within the matix.  In the first movie, the characters who had been free for some time (Morpheus, Trinity, etc.) were like this whenever they were in the matrix.  Neo was new to it, probably still not totally detached from it, so he was more emotional when inside.  It seems logical to me that as one spends more time apart from the matrix, one grows detached from it.  You'd view it only as a program, not as your former life.  Thus in the second movie, Neo shares the same detachment as the other characters when inside the matrix.

Anyways, I liked the movie
LAN.gnome

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #31 on: 05-21-2003 16:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by bankrupt:It seems logical to me that as one spends more time apart from the matrix, one grows detached from it.  You'd view it only as a program, not as your former life.  Thus in the second movie, Neo shares the same detachment as the other characters when inside the matrix.

That's a cool way of looking at it; makes it less of a criticism, which is always good!

I was watching that show "Ebert and Roeper at the Movies," and during their review of the Matrix (two thumbs up), Ebert commented that the characters appeared almost as videogame avatars while they were inside the matrix. That kind of explains the soicism, as well as the abundance of cool clothes and shades; they're just creating cool avatars to play with in the matrix.
Mitsui

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #32 on: 05-22-2003 13:26 »
« Last Edit on: 05-22-2003 13:26 »

I was so disappointed by this.  cry

For one, as people have said, everything seemed so disconnected, a lot harder to relate to than in the first one. Neo had suddenly become Jesus, not just a normal guy from "our world." I just felt everything was really cold and detatched, and often not very clearly explained. It seemed everything was multiplied by 10 (or 100 in A. Smith's case: laff, what - that was funny?!), more characters to get to know, more enviroments, more "baddies," and more plot elements. In the first movie - you knew where you stood. The characters were built upon, you basically knew them all. Also,there wasn't as much diversity (some may say that's a bad thing), but it meant everything made more sense and was more personal.
I know to get the most from this movie repeated viewings are needed, but this one moved almost too quickly. It didn't help that the monologues were overly long and boring, leading me to switch off. The action scenes were amazingly done,but as has been said, they were mostly too long. Even the highway chase was a letdown.
Sorry for my ramblings, often when I get like this I don't mke much sense - but try your best. 
SamuelXDiamond

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« Reply #33 on: 05-22-2003 19:16 »

Main thing for me was that I enjoyed it, and didn't feel robbed of my £5, which is always a good thing.

As an exercise in just how far moviemaking can go in terms of moving back technical boundaries and getting a vision up on to screen, it was really enjoyable. "Hey, you know what? Let's have Neo fighting 100 copies of the same guy." - The fact that it works is impressive. Though you knew when CG was in effect, I didn't find it as jarring as in other movies (say, Star Wars I&II).

The acting wasn't up to much for the most part (Link's girlfriend... ugh), and the a lot of the dialogue around the Zion section was long-winded and felt unneccesarily repetitive. But when they got it right, it was really quite nice - Agent Smith, the "French" guy, the architect.

The guy in the last shot was definitely Smith, which gets me thinking about Neo - if a character/trait which previously existed only inside the Matrix could be 'copied' onto a human, then maybe Neo had his control trait extended to outside of the Matrix. Wouldn't mean that he could stop bullets or fly in the real world, but he could still have outside control of that which was connected to the Matrix.

Or maybe Neo's a wizard.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #34 on: 05-22-2003 23:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:
Let's all go see "The Hours" and then have a big cry!

Or I could gouge my eyes out!

I liked it.  I'm not about to say that it's the pinnacle of movie-making or anything, but yeah, I enjoyed it.  I don't think anyone complained about the end, but just in case, remember that Reloaded and Revolutions was shot as one movie, much like Lord of the Rings, and like Lord of the Rings, it didn't have a "real" ending.  Neither did TNG's "The Best of Both Worlds," but I didn't hear anyone bitching about that, did I?  Just be glad we don't have to wait three years for the next one, like we would if George Lucas was in charge.

Re: CGI - yeah, it was evident, really, REALLY evident in parts, but it was good.  Hella better than stop-motion and blue-screening.

Re: philisophicalness - If I wanted a deep, philosophical moving film, I would watch . . . something else.  I came for an action movie, and that's what I got.

4 quick points in closing, and one question:

1) The rave/sex scene went five minutes too long.  And if you're going to show ass, please don't show man-ass.
2) Link was so much cooler than Tank.  I mean come on, the Hero of Time?  Aww yeah.
3) It's evident that the wachowskilovskiwaskikov brothers are anime freaks
4) And that's why Jesus never got a girlfriend.

Question: if they've been underground for over a century, without sunlight, why do they need all that melanomin?

I have a thousand years of power.
"NOOOOO HE WAS MY BROTHER!" and then got tired and slept.


"He has the special talent, though, of being able to help people and make them feel utterly stupid all at the same time. ... In short, he's a great moderator, but a terrible human being."
-SlackJawedMoron
Just Chris

Urban Legend
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« Reply #35 on: 05-22-2003 23:35 »

I saw it yesterday, and it was pretty good. It was good that I didn't expect a complex plot, and instead got treated to a bunch of nice action scenes. But what I heard is true. Treat this as an extension of the first movie. If you haven't seen any of the Animatrix shorts you might be lost on the transition from the first movie. And the Wachowskis intended to make Reloaded one-half of a movie, a 5-hour long movie. So think of it like that. Neo did some amazing crap, but he didn't really turn into 'Jesus mode' until he revived Trinity. I gotta agree though, that the acting felt stiff. When Keanu Reeve's the best performing guy in the film, something's wrong in the acting department.

The action scenes more than make up for it though. There was a wide variety of them, each keeping the movie fresh. They didn't exploit the 'bullet time' stuff as much as some people said, which is good. The CGI was very good, you know it's used in like 90% of the movie, but not much of it looks fake and noticeable. And I'd like to know what the deal was with that guy trying to stab Neo while on his way to the Nebuchadnezzar. I wish more was said about him. Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for the next movie.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #36 on: 05-22-2003 23:49 »

That was the guy who got taken over by Smith in the very beginning, Chris.
SlaytanicMaggot
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« Reply #37 on: 05-23-2003 00:51 »

I personally liked how they set up the Architect meeting- it was huge shot at religion, basically "God is a lie."

Please edit your sig to 120 pixel height max.
[This message has been edited by Administrator [-mArc-]
ZombieJesus

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« Reply #38 on: 05-23-2003 07:04 »

It's pretty much all been said here. But meh.

Rave party scene sucked, so did the music in that scene. The sex scene was lame. They didn't reveal anything. And if they don't reveal anything, then what 's the point of a sex scene.

The fighting 100 agents Smith scene: Why did Neo even bother fighting them? He could have just flown away when they were coming.

Some adverts I spotted:
The GM prototype car.
Heineken
Ducati
...
sheep555

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #39 on: 05-23-2003 07:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ZombieJesus:
Some adverts I spotted:
The GM prototype car.
Heineken
Ducati
...

As well as that, there is some product placement for Samsung and Panasonic.
There's also geeky reference (not really an advert) to Apple - the laptop Trinity uses to take down the backup power is an old style black G3...but you never actually see an apple logo (you can tell by the keyboard).

Although that scene also has a really, really nurdy reference to unix / Nmap as well, which impressed me (or shows how sad I really am):

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