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Author Topic: The family that doesn't know the meaning of the word "cancelled" - The Simpsons!  (Read 17622 times)
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Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
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« Reply #640 on: 07-17-2014 23:34 »

I don't mind the canon changing as long as the characterisation remains the same. Which The Simpsons hasn't really done.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #641 on: 07-18-2014 00:06 »

Last season, they directly followed an episode where Homer got jealous of Lisa spending all of her time with friends rather than him with an episode where Marge had to hire someone to pose as a friend for Lisa in order to stop her being such a loner.

They clearly stopped caring about continuity (and, indeed, the show as a whole) a long time ago.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #642 on: 07-18-2014 00:35 »

Yeah, back when the show started.
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
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« Reply #643 on: 07-18-2014 00:42 »

It's always bothered me more that Bart is a geek getting bullied by Nelson and co. One week, and then is buddies with them all the next week.
Quantum Neutrino Field

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #644 on: 07-18-2014 01:21 »

Yeah, character- and continuity-wise Simpsons is little too rubber-bandy.
However, to the extent Simpsons has continuity, it is fine, and characterisation is more of a device to the story.
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #645 on: 07-18-2014 01:35 »

It's always bothered me more that Bart is a geek getting bullied by Nelson and co. One week, and then is buddies with them all the next week.

Things like this were present even during classic era Simpsons, though. Likewise for cyber_turnip's example (granted, it's unfortunate that these two episodes aired so close to one another, but broadcast order can hardly be blamed on the writers).
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #646 on: 07-18-2014 01:41 »

Agreed, Beamer.
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
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« Reply #647 on: 07-18-2014 22:43 »

Things like this were present even during classic era Simpsons, though.
Oh, I know. It bothered me then as well.
Box Incorporated

Bending Unit
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« Reply #648 on: 07-19-2014 02:43 »

So this is happening.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/the-simpsons-live-show-with-orchestra-coming-to-hollywood-bowl-20140717

The Simpsons will be celebrating the premiere of its 26th season this September, and to coincide with the event there will be a live Simpsons show at Hollywood Bowl on September 12th, 13th, and 14th, Rolling Stone reports. The event will be hosted by Simpsons voice regular Hank Azaria and feature Nancy Cartwright, Yeardley Smith, Jon Lovitz, Beverly D'Angelo, Weird Al Yankovic, series creator Matt Groening, and many more yet-to-be-announced special guests, and Hollywood Bowl will be transformed into an immersive real-life Springfield for the occasion. The show is set to include live performances, selected scenes from all 25 seasons, and never-before-seen clips all set to the classy musical accompaniment of the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra. For ticket info, head over to the Hollywood Bowl website.

Surprised this isn't being televised, It'd make a good Simpsons celebration special, like the 20th Anniversary Simpsons on Ice Documentary.



Come on! This is why I cannot consider Simpsons episodes canon anymore. Didn't they explain the bone was stuck in his hair because he tried to dig out gum and it got worse?

And he had his bone taken out before a few times afterwards, including Bart taking it in Dial N for Nerder and What to Expect When Bart's Expecting, Mel throwing it in At Long Last Leave, and the movie where he uses it to hit the dome.

For my opinion of the continuity thing, I honestly don't really mind it. The writers have already acknowledged that the show's continuity is very loose and changeable (one of the jokes pitched in Season 1 was for Herman to have a different explanation for how he lost his arm each time he appears), so I don't mind it as long as they kind of acknowledge it and use it in a well written, new way (That 90's Show isn't an example of this).
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #649 on: 07-19-2014 03:13 »
« Last Edit on: 07-19-2014 03:14 »

Likewise. I'm also a big fan of the joke where the Simpsons' household keeps changing locations (sometimes even within the same episode). Having inconsequential stuff like that be totally inconsistent is fine, in my opinion - the issue for me is retconning key character traits and backstories (like, for example, a recent episode wherein Grampa was revealed to be a coward, which completely shits over the excellent Flying Hellfish episode).
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #650 on: 07-19-2014 03:29 »

Isn't Bart getting bullied/being friends with the bullies character traits of Bart, though?
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #651 on: 07-19-2014 03:47 »
« Last Edit on: 07-19-2014 03:48 »

No, not really. A character trait of Bart would be pulling pranks or struggling in school. This would fall more within the realm of character relationships. It's also worth noting that the "bullies" weren't always bullies, save from Nelson. In the early episodes, Jimbo, Dolph and Kearney are simply the "cool kids" (though granted, the show was still developing its world at the time, so this isn't quite the same thing).

And, ultimately, while Bart's relationship with the bullies changes depending on whatever a particular episode may require, it's a little more realistic with the child characters - kids switch from being friends to enemies and back on a frequent enough basis that I can genuinely buy into it on some level. Whereas, say, if Homer's stance on Lenny and Carl were to frequently change, I would have a much harder time swallowing it.
homerjaysimpson

Space Pope
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« Reply #652 on: 07-19-2014 03:59 »

Likewise. I'm also a big fan of the joke where the Simpsons' household keeps changing locations (sometimes even within the same episode). Having inconsequential stuff like that be totally inconsistent is fine, in my opinion - the issue for me is retconning key character traits and backstories (like, for example, a recent episode wherein Grampa was revealed to be a coward, which completely shits over the excellent Flying Hellfish episode).

This is why the episode E-I-E-I-(Annoyed Grunt) killed The Simpsons for me. It never fully recovered since.
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #653 on: 07-19-2014 04:32 »

What exactly did E-I-E-I-(Annoyed Grunt) do that was so significantly worse than anything the show had done prior to that point? Granted, the cat sub-plot was stupid, but it took up very little screentime, and the main plot was incredibly solid (especially given that it has a very sincere "Homer and Bart bonding" element which is quite rare for post-classic Simpsons). It's actually one of the more highly regarded season 15 episodes.
Box Incorporated

Bending Unit
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« Reply #654 on: 07-19-2014 08:27 »

That's I D'oh Bot you're thinking of Beamer. E-I-E-I D'oh (not saying annoyed grunt because screw that) was the Season 11 episode about Homer glove slapping people, then having him and his family run away to his old, not burned down in Season 6 farm to grow Tomocco. I thought it wasn't as awful as some of the other Scully Era...masterpieces, but I could see people hating it, with the same wacky 3rd act and Captain Wacky that plague alot of episodes in that era. I'd personally go with Monty Can't Buy Me Love or Saddlesore Galactica as the episode where I gave up on the show, but with a show this long, I could see pretty much anywhere after Season 8 as someone's breaking point from giving up.
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #655 on: 07-19-2014 12:52 »
« Last Edit on: 07-19-2014 12:53 »

Gah, of course. Forgive my confusion - I'm all doped up on cold and flu medication at the moment.

Yeah, the tomacco episode was lousy, but as you've said, nowhere near the worst of the Scully era (a title which would go to either Saddlesore or Tennis the Menace). In fact, if we were to rank all the Scully episodes from best to worst, that one would probably land perfectly in the middle for me.
Lambda

Bending Unit
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« Reply #656 on: 07-19-2014 18:43 »

Don't want to start a huge discussion about this like I've seen on other forums, but I never thought the Scully era episodes were that much worse than the rest (i.e Al Jean), I think he just happened to be showrunner during the show's first big decline in quality, which had alread started somewhat.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #657 on: 07-19-2014 19:19 »

Only a few people think the Scully era is worse than the new episodes.
Quantum Neutrino Field

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #658 on: 07-19-2014 19:34 »

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say it.

There's those couple bad episodes, but as a whole Scully era episodes are better than even subsequent seasons to me.
JoshTheater

Space Pope
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« Reply #659 on: 07-19-2014 19:39 »

Ya, I enjoyed the Scully era for the most part, even if it was clearly the era during which the show started going downhill (and then was destroyed beyond repair in the Jean era).

I agree with the negative mentions of Monty Can't Buy Me Love and Tennis The Menace. As I've stated before though, I'm a weirdo who enjoys Saddlesore Galactica. It's a batshit retarded episode, but it has enough lines that make me laugh to not hate it.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #660 on: 07-19-2014 20:00 »
« Last Edit on: 07-19-2014 20:01 »

I read on a blog that Saddlesore Galactica should have kept the underground lair stuff but have it be a ruse by the jockeys because they know how stupid Homer is. I think that's a pretty good idea, they could have just had a five-second scene of them pulling their disguises off and one wheeling off the sets and one of them chuckling "idiot" and BAM! Episode fixed.
Lambda

Bending Unit
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« Reply #661 on: 07-19-2014 20:23 »

I'm not sure that would've "fixed" it, but I definitely agree it would've been better.
As for the episode's jokes, I enjoyed Homer's rant about 70's acronyms (especially since the irony is it's way worse now), him hassling BTO and Comic Book Guy's meta reference which subsequently is shown nobody cares about.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #662 on: 07-19-2014 21:08 »

For the first time? tongue
Lambda

Bending Unit
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« Reply #663 on: 07-19-2014 21:27 »

Yeah, that would've been something ^^
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
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« Reply #664 on: 07-19-2014 23:48 »

I enjoy the Scully era for the most part. The story quality took a nosedive and the jokes got more juvenile, but they were still pretty funny, in my opinion. Around seasons 15-18 is where the show really lost all good qualities.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #665 on: 07-20-2014 00:05 »

I think the show got better in season 18 than from 14-17.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #666 on: 07-20-2014 00:50 »

I have to concur about Mike Scully's seasons. They're perfectly enjoyable - in fact, they make up four seasons of pretty fantastic television; it's just that, compared to the majority of the show that they followed, they're terrible by comparison.

Now, I'd say that almost everything from season 13 onwards is terrible, not only by comparison, but on its own terms, but I think Scully gets a lot of blame for being the one to ruin the show.

It's a shame that they ditched their whole "two-term showrunners" thing as if someone else took over for seasons 10 and 11, I think things might have gone quite differently.

Anyway, Scully's stuff is mostly still very, very funny; they just got really lazy with the story and plotting side of things.
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #667 on: 07-20-2014 06:29 »

The main problem I have with the Scully seasons is, The Simpsons used to be one of the smartest shows on tv, and even at their funniest, most Scully-era episodes are just plain stupid. There's very little wit behind the jokes, and it leaves the entire show feeling as if it has no substance whatsoever. Behind the Laughter is arguably the most clever episode ever made with Scully at the helm.

And I actually felt Al Jean was leading the show back in the right direction when he first took over (season 15 may not be "classic era" good, but it does possess the same mix of humour and heart, and is still the best post-classic era season to date by a long shot, in my opinion) - but then it seems as though everyone just grew very lazy and started phoning it in, and there wasn't any new blood in charge to reinvigorate things. Look at the classic era - no show runner ever held the reigns for more than two years straight. Scully being in charge for four years was already pushing it, but Al Jean and his twelve year long (and counting) tirade is just fucking ridiculous. It's no surprise that the best episodes from current day Simpsons tend to be the ones co-produced by Matt Selman.
Lambda

Bending Unit
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« Reply #668 on: 07-20-2014 16:43 »

I'm thinking if one would pick out certain episodes from Mike Scully's and Al Jean's solo eras they'd both have their solid two seasons.
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #669 on: 07-20-2014 17:12 »

I'd be happy to leave season 9 in tact and compress the remaining highlights of the Scully era into a single season. Episodes from 13 and 14 could be pieced together into a pretty decent single season, 15 I'd leave mostly in tact (perhaps swapping a few of  the crappy episodes with the good ones from 16), then another season comprised entirely of the good episodes up until the show went widescreen, followed by another season with highlights from the widescreen era. Then maybe, just maybe, the show could end with some dignity still in tact.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #670 on: 07-20-2014 18:44 »

Also, get a time machine.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #671 on: 07-20-2014 21:28 »
« Last Edit on: 07-20-2014 21:50 »

I'm thinking if one would pick out certain episodes from Mike Scully's and Al Jean's solo eras they'd both have their solid two seasons.

For Scully, absolutely - though thinking about it, his two seasons worth of episodes would be about 95% seasons 9 and 10. They were noticeably different from 11 and 12.

For Al Jean, I'm afraid you'd struggle to find more than about 5 episodes that I don't find utterly, cringe-inducingly awful. There's "Holidays of Future Passed" and... well, that's pretty much it.
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
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« Reply #672 on: 07-20-2014 21:52 »
« Last Edit on: 07-20-2014 21:57 »

The Day the Earth Stood Cool was okay. Err... Was Eternal Moonshine of the Simpsons Mind part of the HD seasons?

Edit: Oh! The Book Job! That actually was kinda good!
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #673 on: 07-20-2014 22:43 »

Eternal Moonshine was part of the last season before the switch to HD, but it still counts given that this hypothetical "best of" season could include any episode from season 13 onwards.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #674 on: 07-20-2014 23:33 »

"The Book Job" would definitely be in this hypothetical selection of episodes. I'd say it's easily one of the best episodes from seasons 13-25 by quite a lot...

...and I'd still only give it a 6/10. That's how bad the last 12 years of this show have been.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #675 on: 07-20-2014 23:51 »

The Book Job is overrated.
Quantum Neutrino Field

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #676 on: 07-21-2014 00:46 »

The Book Job has always stand out to me being so new and indeed quite good.
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
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« Reply #677 on: 07-21-2014 00:53 »

I don't think it's overrated. Most don't consider The Book Job up to par with the golden era, and it isn't. It's neither overrated nor underrated. It's...rated.
Cudry

Bending Unit
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« Reply #678 on: 07-21-2014 01:25 »
« Last Edit on: 07-21-2014 01:31 »

One critic at the time of the episode's airing said it was one of the best episodes the show had ever made.
Beamer

Space Pope
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« Reply #679 on: 07-21-2014 02:03 »

The Book Job would definitely crack a top 25 Simpsons episodes of all time list for me. I absolutely adore that episode, and would agree that it is easily the best thing the show's done in the past 10 years.
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