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PEEL - The Futurama Message Board    It's got a TV!    JJ Abrams is a (visionary/disgrace) who must be (commended/stopped): Star Trek « previous next »
Author Topic: JJ Abrams is a (visionary/disgrace) who must be (commended/stopped): Star Trek  (Read 28598 times)
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PEE Poll: Star Trek: The Best
Original Series
The Next Generation
Deep Space 9
Voyager
Enterprise

Gopher

Fallback Guy
Space Pope
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« Reply #600 on: 07-17-2012 00:42 »

Scientific innacuracy is one thing. There are thousands of things I could list if that was my blanket objection. Most of it I'm willing to roll with, but duplicate earths and complete failures of basic mathematics is across the line!

Heh. Watching the Nox episode now.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #601 on: 07-17-2012 02:40 »

Yeah, the first season of TNG is almost completely horrid, although it has a few gems in there.

TOS' biggest grab for me is that it's a depiction of the time in which it was created, which brings the whole nostalgia full force.  Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a society that dreamt of trek in that manner?
Gopher

Fallback Guy
Space Pope
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« Reply #602 on: 07-17-2012 18:21 »

Re:roddenberry's ideology, this is the same guy who wrote lyrics for the opening song of TOS, a year after it was written, never intending to use the lyrics in any form, so he could attach himself a co-credit on the song and take 50% of the royalties due the composer? Mmmm. That's good idealism.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
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« Reply #603 on: 07-17-2012 20:56 »

so i'm hearing that KHAAAAAAAAAN's going to be brought back for the next movie? i dunno how i feel about that, ricardo montalban's pretty irreplaceable.
There were rumors that Benedict Cumberbatch was going to play Gary Mitchell as the antagonist, but Roberto Orci debunked that in an interview.  Apparently Cumberbatch is going to play a canon character though, according to Orci.  Still no word on who the bad guy is.
Xanfor

Moderator
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #604 on: 07-25-2012 01:36 »

Enterprise has to be the second-best Star Trek series (not counting TAS).

I am so pleased to find out what happened to the Defiant. big grin
hopie4ever

Bending Unit
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« Reply #605 on: 07-25-2012 10:01 »

Mirror Hoshi FTW
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
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« Reply #606 on: 07-29-2012 22:55 »

You're trolling again, aren't you Xanfor. shifty
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #607 on: 08-07-2012 02:01 »

I say TOS is best, out of some odd sense of loyalty to the days of yore, but I actually enjoyed DS9 more than any other, due to the strength of the ongoing storyline.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #608 on: 08-07-2012 02:25 »

Objectively, I think that TNG is probably the best, but TOS is the more enjoyable.

I don't know if that makes as much sense to you as it makes to me.

In fact, I don't care if it does. I'm right. Live with it.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #609 on: 08-07-2012 03:36 »

If we could take the characters from TNG, the epic plot of DS9, and the women's uniforms from TOS... THAT would be the ultimate Trek series.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #610 on: 08-07-2012 08:34 »

Oh yeah, I forgot that Sisko was the best Captain ever. That guy was fearsome in command. He'd chew both Kirk and Picard up for breakfast.
Javier Lopez

Urban Legend
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« Reply #611 on: 08-21-2012 13:59 »

sisko was the only one who remainded what a real captain might look... most others were jokes and i dont care about the "oh its because they are an advanced futuristic society peace loving so their style is diferent" .. their ships are loaded to the roof with massive weapons ..


I wonder how a new StarTrek series would look or feel after new BattleStar Galactica and commanders like Adama and Cain... even back then Babylon 5 had far better commanders... even Ivanova the few times she commanded a warship was more fearsome alone than most ST commanders (save Sisko)..  well the answer at least partly is in the new Startrek movies ... but even so..
coldangel

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« Reply #612 on: 08-21-2012 14:27 »

Yeah, the peaceful, pacifist Federation has ships with enough weapons to literally destroy a planet.

The fact that Trek dwells on how similar we all are, deep down, and how in the end our similarities outweigh our differences is all well and good. It's a nice parable on resolution to human conflict. However the very real alternative with regard to contact with alien cultures is that they may be so very different, incomprehensibly so, that finding common ground could be impossible, and conflict unavoidable, leading to one race inevitably wiping the other out.

If there's ever a new Trek TV series, I'd like to see a race of alien antagonists so irredeemably incompatible with anything identifiably human as to be effectively demons. Vile monsters from the pit. Something against which the Federation's lofty ideals of peace and understanding will fail utterly and fall to pieces, causing them to question their ability to really understand anything, and even consider genocide as the only viable alternative.

Roddenberry would have hated it. But the dead don't get a vote.
Svip

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« Reply #613 on: 08-21-2012 14:35 »

Here is the thing though, coldangel.  For a society - any society - to have developed advance technology, built space ships and explored and settled space, then that society needs a concept of co-operation.  This is a very fundamental ideal, that certainly any advance species would possess.

The only way for a species to obtain such advance technology is if either each individual is incredibly capable and lives for thousands of years (essentially having created most of the technology themselves) or they won't even need it to travel space, like the Zerg in StarCraft, whose creator ensured that they could travel space, despite being organic beings.

The Zerg, however, is not a portrayal of an advance species either, though.  The Zerg is merely operated by one sapient being, the Overlord, who controls all of the Zerg.

Only a Zerg-like species would fit your idea, i.e. one that does not need technology to travel through space and more importantly is controlled by one entity, to ensure they don't attack one another.  And even then, perhaps this entity might be reasoned with?  Perhaps itself, as strange as it may be, may have human-like concepts.
coldangel

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« Reply #614 on: 08-21-2012 14:54 »

Co-operation, or a variation on it (like slavery), yes.

Mindset though. Like... if a species was uncompromisingly convinced that all life NOT originating on its own world was impure and a threat to be obliterated.
Or, something that had no conception of the value of life, that cooperates only to the extent that it serves the individual - a race of psychopaths. Psychopaths are very intelligent and accomplished.
Jeez, you could even encounter something that doesn't even think in linear time, and starts attacking you in response to things you haven't even done yet in a possible future reality.

Anyway, cooperation within a species doesn't automatically equate to the possibility of cooperation with other species. Lions cooperate with each other quite effectively, but they don't tend to sign treaties with other animals.
Zed 85

Space Pope
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« Reply #615 on: 08-21-2012 15:26 »

Feel free to beat me with the stick of Ignorance, but I'm interested to know what are your views of the Borg in relation to what you describe above?
Svip

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« Reply #616 on: 08-21-2012 15:36 »

I don't disagree, coldangel, I am merely pointing out that their co-operation/slavery trait (even if only amongst themselves) would still be a human trait.  There have been plenty of human organisations that have felt the same way.
Javier Lopez

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #617 on: 08-22-2012 10:20 »

Yeah the Borg fit in his demon description.. an species with their own beliefths wich might make sense to them but totally collide with essentially anyone else's ... including federation, romulans , klingons, etc..

At least until Voyager demoted Borgs to minor enemies..

Actually one of the things that made DS9 to me the best ST series is that imho they had the more beliable enemy.. the dominion.. not just a single race of evil enemies.. but the result of centuries of wars and many races subyugated and united into one empire wich moves to conquer..  Seeing in DS9 how the Federation had to alli with Klingons, Romulans and
and how many Alpha cuadrans species/empires choosed to ally with the Dominion.. and specially the bloody and usually against moral/ethics incidents that made the Federation alliances with Romulans and Klingons made all that more beliable..

Also the inclusion of several grey characters like Garak.. and the more inmersion into the Klingon society specially seen great characters as Martok redefine Klingon standards..
futurefreak

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« Reply #618 on: 08-22-2012 19:46 »

If we could take the characters from TNG, the epic plot of DS9, and the women's uniforms from TOS... THAT would be the ultimate Trek series.

What a mashup that would be...

I actually haven't watched enough of DS9 to discern whether they had "epic plots" or not, I've only seen what's been on the Fan Collective discs. I can tell you that those alternate reality episodes are AMAZING, if not mostly for the horny Bajoran chick big grin

I liked Voyager too, had some good characters on it. But I agree about the disappointment of them turning the once-feared Borg into a cuddly - or in this case, extremely hot - thing to playfully combat with and not like, flee in terror from.
ShepherdofShark

Space Pope
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« Reply #619 on: 08-22-2012 22:34 »

I didn't mind 36 of DD.
coldangel

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« Reply #620 on: 08-25-2012 12:51 »
« Last Edit on: 08-25-2012 13:02 »

Feel free to beat me with the stick of Ignorance, but I'm interested to know what are your views of the Borg in relation to what you describe above?

It's the closest they came, but in making them basically machines rather than a species per-se, the Borg don't technically qualify. They're more like victims of an out-of control technology - essentially a nano-virus.


I don't disagree, coldangel, I am merely pointing out that their co-operation/slavery trait (even if only amongst themselves) would still be a human trait.  There have been plenty of human organisations that have felt the same way.

Indeed. However there is also the notion of a species with a communal mind, or a central one. That sidesteps the need for cooperation, since the species is essentially a single individual. Take the 'Prime' in Peter F. Hamilton's Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained. That's kind of the ultimate example of an irredeemably alien alien, still adhering to basic universal logic with regard to its inception, but being something with whom no peace or co-existence is even remotely possible. The only options being genocide or total quarantine.

Javier: Garak was actually one of my favourite characters.

I actually haven't watched enough of DS9 to discern whether they had "epic plots" or not,

Toward the end it basically becomes a serial, one ep leading to the next and so on. All other Trek shows are almost entirely episodic, with only a scant handful of two-parters.

Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #621 on: 08-25-2012 14:07 »

I don't know if you read my original post, coldangel, but I did mention the Zerg as an example of a communal mind species.
coldangel

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« Reply #622 on: 08-25-2012 14:39 »

Yeah. I've had no contact with Starcraft. But that.
The Primes were divided into motiles and immotiles. The immotiles being the central mind. After a period of constant conflict, one managed to wipe out all the others and become the singular controlling consciousness. Kind of like if Vladimir Putin telepathically gained control of all humans on Earth.
Xanfor

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« Reply #623 on: 08-25-2012 17:39 »

Feel free to beat me with the stick of Ignorance, but I'm interested to know what are your views of the Borg in relation to what you describe above?

It's the closest they came, but in making them basically machines rather than a species per-se, the Borg don't technically qualify. They're more like victims of an out-of control technology - essentially a nano-virus.

How about Species 8472... for the brief period they were a threat?
coldangel

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« Reply #624 on: 08-27-2012 02:23 »

They had comprehensible motivations, and in the end, they could be reasoned with.
coldangel

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« Reply #625 on: 09-17-2012 07:55 »

Just noticed that the next movie (May 2013) has a title now, which has been confirmed by Simon Pegg.

Star Trek into Darkness

Presumably this will be subject to change. Before then we should have a videogame that takes place between the two films and features the Gorn as antagonists. They'll probably look really cool and menacing, but I'd love if they made them look like they did in TOS - ridiculous rubber-suited men. Maybe there'll be DLC to do that.
Svip

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« Reply #626 on: 09-17-2012 08:04 »

Star Trek into Darkness?  I thought space was dark and Star Trek already was in space.
coldangel

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« Reply #627 on: 09-17-2012 08:18 »

Probably some kinda... whatchacallit... metaphone.
Tachyon

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« Reply #628 on: 09-17-2012 10:36 »


Space is very bright, in all directions.  At a wavelength of 1.869 mm, anyway.

The JJA Trek film was a lot of fun, though I didn't appreciate their canning of canon by blowing up Vulcan.  Very much looking forward to the next one.

coldangel

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« Reply #629 on: 09-17-2012 10:57 »

Every Trek movie needs to have a Quiet Moment. Some bit of reflection on moral and philosophical Issues. Doesn't matter how much mindless action takes place, the Moment is what makes it Trek. The last movie did not have one.
Tachyon

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« Reply #630 on: 09-17-2012 11:24 »


Yeah, the "Roddenberry moment".

~FazeShift~

Moderator
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« Reply #631 on: 09-17-2012 13:25 »

MO' LIKE INTO DA DORKNESS!! AMIRITE?!?

Ahem, hopefully they turn down the lensflares this time.
hobbitboy

Sir Rank-a-Lot
Urban Legend
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« Reply #632 on: 09-17-2012 23:21 »

Down? I think you mean UP!


"It needs more… more cowbell lensflare!"

Don't hate me, Trinity.  I'm just the messenger.
coldangel

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« Reply #633 on: 09-21-2012 08:17 »

And Pine needs to Shatnerize his speech patterns. I don't care if it sounds like a parody - he doesn't sound enough like Kirk.
Javier Lopez

Urban Legend
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« Reply #634 on: 09-27-2012 07:39 »

New Trek movie?

Weee more redshirts to kill!
futurefreak

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« Reply #635 on: 10-04-2012 07:30 »

And Pine needs to Shatnerize his speech patterns. I don't care if it sounds like a parody - he doesn't sound enough like Kirk.

Don't.......tell him how to do the lines. It.......sickens me.
coldangel

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« Reply #636 on: 12-20-2012 13:20 »

Extended Japanese trailer shows Kirk pressing his hand against a glass divider with Spock on the other side doing the Vulcan salute.

And they say they're not remaking Wrath...
hopie4ever

Bending Unit
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« Reply #637 on: 12-20-2012 14:26 »

Extended Japanese trailer shows Kirk pressing his hand against a glass divider with Spock on the other side doing the Vulcan salute.

And they say they're not remaking Wrath...


coldangel

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« Reply #638 on: 12-20-2012 22:19 »

Oh, come on now.
winna

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« Reply #639 on: 12-21-2012 00:19 »

They should just remake First Contact and get it over with.  Clearly it's sensible to keep highly pressurized plasma coolant that melts anything organic that comes into contact with it in clear plastic tubes that are easy to puncture.
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