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Author Topic: The Unoficial LOTR Thread  (Read 6279 times)
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~FazeShift~

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« Reply #320 on: 01-11-2004 19:13 »
« Last Edit on: 01-11-2004 19:13 »

Kings of the past used to use it?

I want to know when Gandalf called on the eagles to the Black Gate or if they just showed up for a laugh anyway.

catindisguise: This might help about King Kong.
And apparently Peter Jackson's original draft King Kong script has been online for years (he's started over).
Mr. Potter

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« Reply #321 on: 01-11-2004 21:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Pikka Bird:

Another thing I have been dying to get straightened out- The Athelas plant: I am not sure it was nicknamed "King's Foil" at the time of The War of The Ring. I am pretty sure that it was just called Athelas until Aragorn used it to heal the wounded during the War of The Ring... and THEN was it named King's Foil. If this is true, then why did he call it King's Foil when he asked Sam to fetch some of it in "The Fellowship of The Ring"?

I just read that part of the book, and yes, Strider (at that time) only refers to it as Athelas, he tells that the Men from the West brought it to Middle Earth, but he never mentions the name King's Foil.

LAN.gnome

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« Reply #322 on: 01-11-2004 23:21 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Potter:
 I just read that part of the book, and yes, Strider (at that time) only refers to it as Athelas, he tells that the Men from the West brought it to Middle Earth, but he never mentions the name King's Foil.

On pages 845-846 in one edition (this one), Aragon asks for some athelas, and Ioreth replies that she is unfamiliar with the plant. Aragon then says it is also called kingsfoil, "for so the country-folk call it in these latter days." If you simplify the language used and shorten the exchange, it's fairly similar to the dialogue between Aragon and Sam in FOTR.

So while in the book Sam may not have heard of athelas or kingsfoil, the latter term has apparently existed for some time.
Mr. Potter

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« Reply #323 on: 01-12-2004 00:02 »
« Last Edit on: 01-12-2004 00:02 »

That's right. The term kingsfoil already existed, I remember that part in the Houses of Healing very well.

Also,in the book, Aragorn doesn't even ask Sam to look for kingsfoil, he goes by himself.
Teral

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« Reply #324 on: 01-12-2004 06:32 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by catindisguise:
2. Why did the steward of Gondor go mad? I know his son was dead but geez, trying to burn the other one alive, and why did he do that?


As Pikka mentioned Denethor had a Palantir as well (the crystal ball-like sphere Saruman used to communicate with Sauron), and Sauron was sending him false images of things to come. He saw Minas Tirith as a burning ruin and Sauron's victory. That's one of the reasons he seems to have given up in advance, Boromirs death merely confirms this for him. When Faramir seems to be dying he falls into dispair, his line is broken, Gondor is as good as dead, the stewards have failed. Quite sad actually, because as I understand he was a good man.
Action Jacktion

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« Reply #325 on: 01-12-2004 18:32 »
« Last Edit on: 01-12-2004 18:32 »

Athelas is an Elvish word that means Kingsfoil: "Las" means "Leaf" (foil is an archaic synonym for leaf), as in Legolas, which means Greenleaf.
catindisguise

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« Reply #326 on: 01-13-2004 15:09 »

Thanks for explaining that everyone. I feel stupid now though, meh.  smile
Pikka Bird

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« Reply #327 on: 01-13-2004 15:36 »

I knew about the "las" in Elvish... But it seems I am a little rusty in my general Tolkien lore. I don't recall what I really read back in the days (about Athelas) but I really should read them all again. I have The Hobbit, all three LOTR and The Silmarillon in the glorious black paperback edition from Harper Collins (the "official" Tolkien publisher). I really wish they'd make a seven-volume LOTR (or just all tolkien books) bound old-school in black (or deep red) leather...
SlaytanicMaggot
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« Reply #328 on: 01-13-2004 20:04 »
« Last Edit on: 01-13-2004 20:04 »

gah...can't they stop making that style of screenplay the only accepted format? I get sick of being enthralled in a story, then taken out of it by "EXT. BLAH BLAH -1958"...
I mean, not to insult screenwriters, but jeez, have some flexibility....

EDIT: Jackson says he'll do "The Hobbit" only if New Line lands the rights to it. Course, I think the only person they'd think of to make it would be Jackson.

Anyway, who wants to see the Simarillion made into a movie? wouldn't that be fun?

 http://www.idmonsters.com/rtc/06/lotr.html
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Please edit your sig to 120 pixel height max.
[This message has been edited by Administrator [-mArc-]
Mr. Potter

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« Reply #329 on: 01-13-2004 20:28 »

Wouldn't that be impossible? But yes, it would be fun.
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #330 on: 01-14-2004 18:52 »

I'll do it, gimme the thing....
*reads Silmarillion*

Uh-oh.

Is Gandalf in The Silmarillion?
I :heart: Gandalf.
Mr. Potter

Professor
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« Reply #331 on: 01-14-2004 19:41 »
« Last Edit on: 01-16-2004 00:00 »

Olorin (Gandalf in his Maia form) appears in The Silmarillion, but it's not a very important part. But, in the Unfinished Tales, there's a great story about how the Valars chose which Maias would go to Middle Earth. In there we find out that Olorin didn't wanted to come to Middle Earth, but because of the insistence of one of the Valars, he agreed.
Action Jacktion

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« Reply #332 on: 01-16-2004 01:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Pikka Bird:
I really wish they'd make a seven-volume LOTR (or just all tolkien books) bound old-school in black (or deep red) leather...
A seven-volume edition of LotR is available, but not in leather.  Anyway, Tolkien always wanted the story to be in one volume, since it is one continuous narrative.  I'm still waiting for a definitive one-volume edition.
SlaytanicMaggot
Professor
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« Reply #333 on: 01-16-2004 12:31 »

Damn, that's who they mean when they say "may the grace of the valar protect you!"

Please edit your sig to 120 pixel height max.
[This message has been edited by Administrator [-mArc-]
Pikka Bird

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« Reply #334 on: 01-18-2004 11:52 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Pikka Bird:
I really wish they'd make a seven-volume LOTR (or just all tolkien books) bound old-school in black (or deep red) leather...
A seven-volume edition of LotR is available, but not in leather.  Anyway, Tolkien always wanted the story to be in one volume, since it is one continuous narrative.  I'm still waiting for a definitive one-volume edition.

First of all- I meant i wish Harper Collins would make a seven volume edition.
Second- A one-volume edition IS available... But I don't know where you can get it. They sold it at ThinkGeek for a while, but not anymore. They also had a seven-volume edition.
And another thing- Why would Tolkien split the books up into six books like he did? Was that because of some vague request from some publisher?
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #335 on: 01-18-2004 16:32 »

Hey, did Christopher Lee really walk out of the Return Of The King premiere?
And is he not speaking with the other film guys?
Pikka Bird

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« Reply #336 on: 01-18-2004 17:12 »

I don't know if he walked away, but after he found out (however that was) he stayed away from the rest. I can understand that very well, but I can also understand Peter Jackson's decision to cut it out.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #337 on: 01-18-2004 23:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Pikka Bird:
And another thing- Why would Tolkien split the books up into six books like he did? Was that because of some vague request from some publisher?

Because it was/just after wartime and paper was at a premium?  They mentioned it on the TT:EE dvd in one of the specials.

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Action Jacktion

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« Reply #338 on: 01-19-2004 00:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Pikka Bird:
 First of all- I meant i wish Harper Collins would make a seven volume edition.
Why do you want a seven-volume edition anyway?  Like I said, it was supposed to be all in one volume, but Tolkien let the publisher split it in three because they thought it was too long.  Are you just trying to collect every possible division of the story?
 
Quote
Second- A one-volume edition IS available... But I don't know where you can get it. They sold it at ThinkGeek for a while, but not anymore. They also had a seven-volume edition.
I said a definitive one-volume edition.  The red leatherette edition that's available is close, but it inexplicably leaves out the close-up map of Gondor.
 
Quote
And another thing- Why would Tolkien split the books up into six books like he did? Was that because of some vague request from some publisher?
It wasn't meant to be six literal books; that's just what Tolkien decided to call the story divisions.  He just as easily could have called them parts or sections.  But the six books were the real divisions of the story, not the three volumes.  (He pointed out that even though they appear in the same volume, Books III & IV really don't have anything to do with each other, which is why the volume has such a vague name.)  At  first, Tolkien wanted names for the individual books but not the three volumes (I guess they just would have been LotR vols. I-III).  Here they are:

Book 1: The Ring Sets Out
Book 2: The Ring Goes South
Book 3: The Treason of Isengard
Book 4: The Ring Goes East
Book 5: The War of the Ring
Book 6: The End of the Third Age

In case anyone cares, he also had alternate titles for the three volumes:

Vol. I: The Shadow Grows, The Return of the Shadow
Vol. II: The Ring in the Shadow, The Shadow Lengthens
Vol. III: The War of the Ring
Pikka Bird

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« Reply #339 on: 01-19-2004 11:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
Why do you want a seven-volume edition anyway?  Like I said, it was supposed to be all in one volume, but Tolkien let the publisher split it in three because they thought it was too long.  Are you just trying to collect every possible division of the story?
No, it's just because it would look hella cool! I suppose you have seen the seven volume edition (with the 6 divisions and the appendices) with the letters of Tolkien's name on the backsleeve. The one I have seen have been mediocre in the design compartment, but Harper Collins has the most sleek, beautiful design.
 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
I said a definitive one-volume edition.  The red leatherette edition that's available is close, but it inexplicably leaves out the close-up map of Gondor.
If the Gondor map isn't in there, then just screw it. I had just seen it on the www and you know how people tend to praise the stuff they sell.
Mr.Nintendo

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« Reply #340 on: 01-20-2004 15:13 »

How many times have all yous read the LOTR books? 28 over here and im only 14, which makes an average of twice every year.
Pikka Bird

Space Pope
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« Reply #341 on: 01-20-2004 15:16 »

So when was your LOTR virginity popped? Just to get an accurate average...
Mr.Nintendo

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« Reply #342 on: 01-20-2004 15:19 »

Oh right, well i was eleven the first time i read it...so once every 39.107 days.
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #343 on: 01-20-2004 19:56 »

Twice. I think.
And I've started it again last week.
I got the book and read Fellowship just before The Two Towers was in d'cinema.
Ranadok

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« Reply #344 on: 01-20-2004 22:43 »

Read the first time about 7 years ago, and 5 times since. I try to read it about one a year.
Mr. Potter

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« Reply #345 on: 01-21-2004 00:38 »

I read The Hobbit,The Trilogy, The Silmarillion and The Unfinished Tales like 5 months before Fellwoship  premiered. Then I read them all again before Two Towers premiered, Then I read The Return of the King before ROTK premiered. Now I'm too lazy so I just watch the movies. But I hope to start reading them again soon.
Grim

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« Reply #346 on: 01-21-2004 03:12 »

After seeing fellowship, I got a copy of the book, read it about 3 times since then, got the hobbit for christmas just passed, and it was really good.
Still wanna get a copy of the silmarillion, whats it like?
Mr. Potter

Professor
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« Reply #347 on: 01-21-2004 12:22 »
« Last Edit on: 01-21-2004 12:22 »

It's basically the history of not just Middle Earth, but also Valinor and Numenor. You might compare it to the Bible in the sense that it tells about the creation of the World,the early days and it focuses on a lot of characters, but obviously it's not a copy of the same things that happen in the Bible. It's very interesting, but, in my opinion, more difficult to read than The Lord of the Rings.
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #348 on: 01-21-2004 16:12 »

Now you can play Nazgul!!
Mr.Nintendo

Bending Unit
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« Reply #349 on: 01-23-2004 14:56 »

In my opinion the Silmarillion is one of the best of Tolkiens work. The way it is all told is less in the style of a story in the conventional way like The Hobbit or Lord of tthe Rings it is told from an anonymous narrators point of view, which gives you more of an impression of a myth or legend.
Personally i enjoyed the section about the elvish names, i have found it extremely useful for working out what character and place names actually mean!
catindisguise

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« Reply #350 on: 01-24-2004 19:50 »

I've just remembered something:
I heard something about Borromir coming back to life in ROTK. He didn't (although someone said he did in the book). This confused me.
Explain.
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #351 on: 01-24-2004 22:42 »

You heard crazy talk.
Or dream talk.

Or some non-reality related talk, beyond which I can't even try or hope to contemplate.

Boromir died (as in dead) in the Fellowship, book and movie
They killed him so much, he died from it.

(Although he did appear in a flashback in The Two Towers Extended DVD and may have been talked about in the ROTK book).

Crazy.
catindisguise

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« Reply #352 on: 01-25-2004 13:00 »

Thanks Faze. It was proabably part of the crazy dream which is my life  big grin
Pikka Bird

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« Reply #353 on: 01-28-2004 15:15 »
« Last Edit on: 01-28-2004 15:15 by Nixorbo »

I just re-read the first chapter of FOTR (I deliberately took a break from the books during the 3-year span of the movies) and it dawns on me really HOW much they cut. AND added. And I remembered something that bothered me about Bilbo's speech: Why was he so vague in the movie? In the book, he is actually quite precise and concise without the "errr" and "...mphhh"

(And it is great to be reminded of the keen witty humour.)
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #354 on: 01-28-2004 15:48 »

"errr" and "...mphhh"?

Hmmm?

It is to be noted, Gandalf made a flash of light when he dissapeared in the book.
Show off.
Pikka Bird

Space Pope
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« Reply #355 on: 01-28-2004 17:03 »
« Last Edit on: 01-28-2004 17:03 »

YES! That too. And by errr" and "...mphhh" I meant the hesitant manner in which Bilbo delivered his speech in the movie.

I see my post was edited. I can't remember what it was originally like, so if I am supposed to have learned something, it didn't help.
[EDIT]Backtracked all the way. Learned my lesson (sort of). Was out on a limb with that, and apologies will be handed out generously.[/EDIT]
David A

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« Reply #356 on: 01-28-2004 17:27 »

Yeah, the movies are good, but nothing compares to the actual books.   big grin
Mr.Nintendo

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« Reply #357 on: 01-29-2004 14:17 »

I completely agree David A, nothing created in other media formats can ever compare to the original master-piece by Tolkien. Tolkien himself doubted a film of the novel could ever be made, and even now with the dawn of CGI it just doesn't have quite the same magic as the books.
The film has popularized the book to a whole new generation, so hopefully now more people can appreciate the genius of the original work.
~FazeShift~

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« Reply #358 on: 01-29-2004 15:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by David A:
Yeah, the movies are good, but nothing compares to the actual books.    big grin
Can't wait for LOTR: The Musical!!
Mr. Potter

Professor
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« Reply #359 on: 01-29-2004 16:57 »

Can't wait for LOTR: The Musical!!
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